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slowbeef posted:I mostly like everything you brought up, except I'm wondering who Nagito planned to murder. Or for that matter, how. I mean, what's his plan in that theory? Find the knife, and then just blindly start stabbing? It's possible! Maybe with his SHSL Luck he figured whoever he killed would deserve it?
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Mar 16, 2013 14:49
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TheArchimage posted:The game made far too much noise about when the bathroom was available for it to be completely irrelevant, and there isn't anyone who could have been in the bathroom from the time of the murder to the time the body was discovered. Peko could have. It was locked not long before the party started, and the implication is that "the party started" refers to when they started eating (which incidentally, would rule out everyone but Peko and Chiaki as suspects if the crawlspace was accessed through it, since everyone else except Kuzuryuu was together at first), after Peko left the room, and it didn't open up until around when she returned to the main hall. Furthermore, she was nowhere to be found between those two times, but she had to be in the building, since Chiaki didn't see her leave. My guess is that when Peko is inevitably fingered as a suspect, and people start wondering why she went missing, and we'll have to somehow prove that it was her in there. slowbeef posted:I mostly like everything you brought up, except I'm wondering who Nagito planned to murder. Or for that matter, how. I mean, what's his plan in that theory? Find the knife, and then just blindly start stabbing? The who is probably irrelevant, since you're basically going to be killing everyone anyway to escape, but the how is pretty big question.
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Mar 16, 2013 15:08
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Wandering Knitter posted:It's possible! Maybe with his SHSL Luck he figured whoever he killed would deserve it? But perhaps it was SHSL Good Luck that prevented him from being murdered here?  I would actually love it if Nagito ended up being some weird form of anti-hero the entire way through the game because he tried to kill a dude once but always had to prevent somebody else from winning because he doesn't want to die. Kinda like Togami from DR1, but nicer
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Mar 16, 2013 15:12
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CandyCrazy posted:The who is probably irrelevant, since you're basically going to be killing everyone anyway to escape, but the how is pretty big question. I, for one, hope they don't go the "your first 'partner' is a violent sociopath" route again. I'm sure they could make it interesting (especially if Hinata figured it out but Nagito stayed around), but I think they could do more with the character than that.
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Mar 16, 2013 16:02
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TheArchimage posted:Also, that Gundam was unable to retrieve his earring until Nidai left the bathroom is significant. It's easy to think so, but it's not significant. Gundam started looking for an entrance from outside the cabin first and by the time that was proven impossible, Nidai had already finished his business. TheArchimage posted:Pekoyama being sick likely is a red herring. She took a plate of food randomly, so it was impossible to target her specifically. Exactly. By extension, the bathroom is a red herring too. I don't understand how you propose Hanamura locked the bathroom and kept it locked while being outside it, and assuming it was locked, Pekoyama couldn't have used it. She would have had to go outside, and Nanami would have noticed her leaving and mentioned as much. Remember Souda's testimony: "Pekoyama was nowhere to be found" when he checked the office. The only place she could have been was the bathroom inside the cabin. For bad meta reasons, the game could easily have given us the chance to investigate the bathroom, but it didn't. There's no actual clue that there's an entrance in the bathroom, whereas the cluttered boxes in the storage room could well be a clue.
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Mar 16, 2013 18:05
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slowbeef posted:I mostly like everything you brought up, except I'm wondering who Nagito planned to murder. Or for that matter, how. I mean, what's his plan in that theory? Find the knife, and then just blindly start stabbing? I wonder if Nagito didn't actually plan to kill anyone and it was the culprit who set it up. One of the things that bugged me was how luck based the murder was but what if it wasn't luck that Togami went under the table. I can't remember if this was brought up but what if the knife was planted to draw someone over to the underside of the table? You'd draw someone in and then stab them through the floor. The idea is Nagito didn't go to the knife because he planned a murder he just saw something glowing under the table and decided to check it out.
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Mar 16, 2013 18:46
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tiistai posted:Exactly. By extension, the bathroom is a red herring too. I don't understand how you propose Hanamura locked the bathroom and kept it locked while being outside it, and assuming it was locked, Pekoyama couldn't have used it. But it only looks like a red herring if you assume Hanamura is the culprit. If you consider Pekoyama, all the time the bathroom was locked adds up. Being sick doesn't necessarily mean she was targeted, and she has a great excuse for being in there for extended periods of time. Even if she isn't responsible, it seems likely that the missing piece about a secret entrance in the bathroom will come from Pekoyama or Nidai during the trial. might be wrong fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 18:49
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evilspacehopper posted:I wonder if Nagito didn't actually plan to kill anyone and it was the culprit who set it up. One of the things that bugged me was how luck based the murder was but what if it wasn't luck that Togami went under the table. I can't remember if this was brought up but what if the knife was planted to draw someone over to the underside of the table? You'd draw someone in and then stab them through the floor. The idea is Nagito didn't go to the knife because he planned a murder he just saw something glowing under the table and decided to check it out. Unless the glow can go through the table-cloth, doubtful. It is just packing tape. Justin_Brett fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 19:04
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Krinkle posted:The OST to Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace was a spoiler. Months before the movie came out people flipped over the CD case and saw the second to last track Qui-Gon's Noble End. It was nice of John Williams to let us know not to give a poo poo about that particular character ahead of time. Something like that hardly surprises me, and as Orenronen mentioned, I'm sure there's some track in this titled "Nagito is a Snatcher" or something. But having the music itself act as a spoiler is pretty unusual. But now as someone has mentioned, I do remember that Deadly Premonition track, and I guess I could see if they did something like mash the mono-siblings' tracks together, how that could be a spoiler (if of course that happens; it's just an example).
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Mar 16, 2013 19:30
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"Um... It would be rude for me to say anything. I have to think about Pekoyama-san's feelings..." Nagito, what do you know of Pekoyamas internal difficulties... I suspect all the poison theories are way off or...hmm. Cramps? No, of course not. It's probably a really simple explanation, that in hindsight, was already guessed and thought of by pretty much everyone. Like, she was just dying to go to the bathroom. FFKonoko fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 19:39
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FFKonoko posted:"Um... It would be rude for me to say anything. I have to think about Pekoyama-san's feelings..." Jesus, not again.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:40
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4th Asclepiadean posted:Something like that hardly surprises me, and as Orenronen mentioned, I'm sure there's some track in this titled "Nagito is a Snatcher" or something. Let's end this speculation right now -- the soundtrack contains all the background music from the various executions, and some of them have musical cues that suggest who it is that's getting executed.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:43
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I can only hope that that means that if Souda get's executed the music uses the same techno cues as The Devil's Lab from FF6 
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Mar 16, 2013 19:49
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Oren you really shouldn't have said that, I can only think of a few characters who would have a very obvious music motif and now I know they're gonna loving die. 
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Mar 16, 2013 20:36
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Justin_Brett posted:Unless the glow can go through the table-cloth, doubtful. It is just packing tape. orenronen posted:
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Mar 16, 2013 20:40
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...Is this glow-in-the-dark paint?
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Suzuki Method posted:Oren you really shouldn't have said that, I can only think of a few characters who would have a very obvious music motif and now I know they're gonna loving die. He said "cues", which could mean anything. That could even mean "sound effects connected to their talent", and so I could think of audio cues for more characters than there are going to be executions in the game (motor noises for Souda, animal noises for Gundam, guitar riffs for Ibuki, camera clicks for Mahiru, videogame bleeps for Nanami, sword clashes for Peko, roasting noises for Hanamura, traditional Japanese instrumentation for Saionji). Stretch a little and you could probably get some for some of the others.
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Mar 16, 2013 20:48
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4th Asclepiadean posted:"Nagito is a Snatcher" or something
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Mar 16, 2013 20:53
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Falls Down Stairs posted:He said "cues", which could mean anything. That could even mean "sound effects connected to their talent", and so I could think of audio cues for more characters than there are going to be executions in the game (motor noises for Souda, animal noises for Gundam, guitar riffs for Ibuki, camera clicks for Mahiru, videogame bleeps for Nanami, sword clashes for Peko, roasting noises for Hanamura, traditional Japanese instrumentation for Saionji). Stretch a little and you could probably get some for some of the others. Whistle blasts for Nidai, a heart monitor for Tsumiki. That's potential sound effects for two-thirds of the remaining cast, with the possibility of more we haven't thought of, so there's really no need to worry about that being a spoiler (particularly as there's no guarantee that the characters without obvious sound associations won't be executed).
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Mar 16, 2013 21:06
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:The knife had been painted with glow-in-the-dark paint, and the packing tape (presumably) had some from the handle stick to it when the knife was pulled free of the tape. Oh, must have got that mixed up somehow. Yeah that's more plausible, although you'd probably have to slather a bunch on. Wonder if someone having paint on their hands will come up?
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Mar 16, 2013 21:15
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For thoroughness, there's guitars for Ibuki, Nagito and/or Hinata could get one reminiscent of Naegi's, Sonia could get trumpets (think national anthems), and Kuzuryuu seems like a jazz kind of guy to me. Bam, that's everyone (except Togami, for obvious reasons). And orenronen said some of them had cues, not all. Celes was the only character from the first game who's execution theme would've spoiled who it belonged to, after all. And a hole in the theory that someone planted the knife to lure someone is that it would be pretty unreliable, since there would be a good chance that no one would spot it. Hell, no one did except Togami, and he had night-vision goggles, which no one could have expected.
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Mar 16, 2013 21:24
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CandyCrazy posted:
If the knife wasn't to lure anyone, it must have been for the first intended killer to find easily. Togami spotted the person go under the table with the night vision goggles and went to intercept. But somehow there was already someone underneath the floor that stabbed up with the missing skewer? Would someone have predicted that far ahead, or was there someone else supposed to go under and grab the knife. Right now it seems likely that Nagito planted the knife and went under, but I kinda doubt that Hanamura is the killer. He said before "Hey, everyone! Where are you? T...This power outage... it isn't just in the kitchen?" That means he was in the kitchen at the time when the power went out. If there is a secret passage underneath the floor that may be in the bathroom, the closest person to that would be Pekoyama.
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Mar 16, 2013 21:45
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asymmetrical posted:Well now that you've said that, all I want is this game to turn into Japanese anime Snatcher. 
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Mar 16, 2013 22:45
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quote:Right now it seems likely that Nagito planted the knife and went under, but I kinda doubt that Hanamura is the killer. He said before "Hey, everyone! Where are you? T...This power outage... it isn't just in the kitchen?" Or that was a lie.
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Mar 16, 2013 22:56
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symptom posted:If the knife wasn't to lure anyone, it must have been for the first intended killer to find easily. Togami spotted the person go under the table with the night vision goggles and went to intercept. But somehow there was already someone underneath the floor that stabbed up with the missing skewer? Would someone have predicted that far ahead, or was there someone else supposed to go under and grab the knife. Right now it seems likely that Nagito planted the knife and went under, but I kinda doubt that Hanamura is the killer. He said before "Hey, everyone! Where are you? T...This power outage... it isn't just in the kitchen?" That means he was in the kitchen at the time when the power went out. If there is a secret passage underneath the floor that may be in the bathroom, the closest person to that would be Pekoyama. or he said that while under the floor boards
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Mar 16, 2013 23:01
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Gally posted:or he said that while under the floor boards I'll be surprised if that's the case; it relies on three unlikely things: 1: Hanamura's voice wasn't noticeably muffled by the floorboards, and 2: nobody noticed that his voice seemed to be coming from strangely low down, and 3: Hanamura was confident that nobody would notice this, because otherwise he presumably wouldn't have spoken. It is a little strange, though, that we hear Hanamura speak during the blackout when he wasn't present before and doesn't appear to be present immediately after (it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have commented on Tsumiki's unfortunate plight when the lights came back on if he'd been around), so maybe he did speak from under the floorboards, even if that seems a bit implausible. Rith fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 23:11
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Rith posted:I'll be surprised if that's the case; it relies on three unlikely things:
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Mar 16, 2013 23:18
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:Wasn't it determined that the big metal fire doors between the kitchen and the party room would have automatically shut and locked in the event of a power outage? His voice would CERTAINLY have been muffled by those. The game hasn't specifically said that they would have locked in the event of a power outage, just that they can be sealed to prevent the spread of fire. Fire doors can automatically close during a power outage, but a fire door automatically locking seems like a terrible idea, because that might trap people inside a burning building. (Then again, maybe that's why Usami didn't want us entering the dangewous lodge?) The more I think about this, though, the more I'm being drawn to the 'Hanamura as culprit' theory.
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Mar 16, 2013 23:29
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Zereth posted:... so... Snatcher? Has nothing to do with anything, just a Japanese video game of the movie blade runner. A snatcher meant they were a T-1000 underneath some fake skin so if the song title indicated Nagito was a snatcher that would be a spoiler I guess? WHooops nevermind I misread Krinkle fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 23:32
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Rith posted:The game hasn't specifically said that they would have locked in the event of a power outage, just that they can be sealed to prevent the spread of fire. Fire doors can automatically close during a power outage, but a fire door automatically locking seems like a terrible idea, because that might trap people inside a burning building. (Then again, maybe that's why Usami didn't want us entering the dangewous lodge?) But do we know if the door did close during the power outage? Souda said he'd try to turn the power back on by flipping the circuit breakers, which he couldn't do if he couldn't get out. EDIT: Also something Hanamura said during the investgation: orenronen posted:
Basically, he was in the kitchen, felt his way down to the hall, and then commented. That's why his voice isn't muffled. symptom fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 23:34
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At first, I thought the power outage was limited to the kitchen, but when I somehow managed to find my way out...
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Edit:^^ As I recall, he never made it to the breakers. Monobear reset them. Yeah, I guess the locked part doesn't make sense. Either way, if he were in the kitchen the entire time and those doors shut his voice would not be clear at all. They're probably going to be both his alibi and his downfall. I'm leaning toward him planting the knife as well. It may not come up in the trial as it hasn't been noted as an evidence bullet but, as I've mentioned a couple times before, it's clearly a chef's knife. Edit again: I went back and checked the update with the fire doors; I think it was a goon and not the game mentioning that most doors of that type work by using electromagnets to keep the doors open. That allows for them to still close automatically in the event of power loss by, say, a fuse box blowing out and starting an electrical fire. If this is the case in-game, they're definitely going to bone him as he mentioned "finding his way [to the party room] by clinging to the wall." If those doors were shut, he'd have just gone in a circle. TheGreatGildersneeze fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 23:36
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I guess until the game tells us that the doors were closed during the power outage, we won't know that the fire door were closed and locked during the power outage. It may all just be a red herring then, or the key to the case.
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Mar 16, 2013 23:49
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Krinkle posted:Has nothing to do with anything, just a Japanese video game of the movie blade runner. A snatcher meant they were a T-1000 underneath some fake skin so if the song title indicated Nagito was a snatcher that would be a spoiler I guess? No, he meant that a "japanese anime" version of Snatcher would just be Snatcher.
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Mar 16, 2013 23:52
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symptom posted:I guess until the game tells us that the doors were closed during the power outage, we won't know that the fire door were closed and locked during the power outage. It may all just be a red herring then, or the key to the case.
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Mar 17, 2013 00:00
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Krinkle posted:Has nothing to do with anything, just a Japanese video game of the movie blade runner. A snatcher meant they were a T-1000 underneath some fake skin so if the song title indicated Nagito was a snatcher that would be a spoiler I guess?
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Mar 17, 2013 00:13
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:Edit again: I went back and checked the update with the fire doors; I think it was a goon and not the game mentioning that most doors of that type work by using electromagnets to keep the doors open. That allows for them to still close automatically in the event of power loss by, say, a fuse box blowing out and starting an electrical fire. If this is the case in-game, they're definitely going to bone him as he mentioned "finding his way [to the party room] by clinging to the wall." If those doors were shut, he'd have just gone in a circle. I think you're on the right track, but I'd still think if he put his hand on those doors, they'd open; someone guiding themselves along a wall tends to lean a bit so it would in theory be plausible that he realized the fire doors were there went through. We'll see what he during the trail; it's plausible that everyone who wasn't in the main hall will be asked to give an account of their movements. Still, the doors being there don't in themselves undermine his story that he felt his way to the main hall. The key thing pointing towards him is his movements during lights-out making very, very little sense, because if his claims are true, then he felt his way to the main hall in the dark, then left and went back to the kitchen all before the lights came back up, since he doesn't seem to have been in the hall at that time. There's nothing absolutely, unquestionably pinning it on him as of yet, but none of the component parts of his claims jive with what we know. edit: This doesn't mean that the doors couldn't be used as evidence against his claims, like if he later claims he went into the hall without encountering any obstacles or something. They just don't quite make a contradiction yet. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 01:05
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Falls Down Stairs posted:I think you're on the right track, but I'd still think if he put his hand on those doors, they'd open; someone guiding themselves along a wall tends to lean a bit so it would in theory be plausible that he realized the fire doors were there went through. It's all still assumption, though. We'll see as more trial goes down. Edit: from the pictures in the update, it does appear that the doors have standard silver knobs, and Hanamura would indeed have left the kitchen and been pressing against the hinges if they closed during the power outage. That wooden door on the left in the first picture is the kitchen, and the second picture shows the thick support beams that would stop the fire doors from swinging inward toward the main hall. TheGreatGildersneeze fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 01:26
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I think doors like that typically slide rather than swing. I could be completely off-base though.
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Mar 17, 2013 01:35
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symptom posted:Basically, he was in the kitchen, felt his way down to the hall, and then commented. That's why his voice isn't muffled. But then we've got the fire doors clue. If they were closed, he would have run into them just trying to feel his way along. Not to say that he didn't just open the doors, but it makes blind wall-tracing less likely. edit: beaten, as refreshing the page apparently didn't update
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Mar 17, 2013 01:36
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kidcoelacanth posted:I think doors like that typically slide rather than swing. I could be completely off-base though.
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Mar 17, 2013 01:38
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:This can (possibly; I'm no expert on fire doors) be explained if we know which way the hinges swing on those doors. I'm going to assume that fire doors wouldn't swing like a saloon's door; they'd need to close and stay closed unless someone actively opens them, so they probably latch in some way as well as having a frame that stops them at 90 degrees of motion. If they swing freely or swing out from the kitchen they're not going to do well for any kind of containment if (for example) the gas stove explodes (not that a wooden lodge is going to do much, but still). If Hanamura wasn't expecting a door in pitch darkness and he was pushing against the swing of the doors (i.e., against the frame), the door would have felt like a solid wall if he didn't manage to hit the knob/handle/whatever. This is just conjectural based on what the intelligent way to design such a safety mechanism would be, but you would think that they would open in the direction that people would have to flee, i.e. away from the kitchen towards the exit. I'd think they would have a very saloon-door like design actually, because you want such a door to be as easy to flee through as possible; you don't want to delay an escapee by forcing them to fiddle with a latch or a doorknob (edit: this is why most fire doors you see in real life open by a push-bar in the direction of the exit). They'd even probably be designed to be easy to get through during a power-outage, too; a fire could knock out the power. So how I'd imagine that they'd work (assuming they're not broken and are the reason that Monomi thinks the lodge is so dangerous) is they'd be like big spring-loaded saloon doors that return to a closed position by spring after someone pushes through, because you'd want them to stay closed like you said, but at the same time you'd want to make them easy to open. Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 01:38
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