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DrSunshine posted:It's honestly kind of a drag, I don't particularly recommend it unless you have a great deal of patience. It's mostly just a matter of waiting for enough research points to build up to make another Westernization reform and hoping the Western powers don't gobble you up. I just finished an Egypt - Arab Union game, finished 5th, beat up France and Italy multiple times for their colonial stuff, and puppeted the Ottomans. All in all, pretty good fun. That said, the 30% modernization required to advance to civilized still took forever. I can't imagine suffering through 50% or more. 
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Mar 26, 2013 15:09
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). I even invaded and puppet-ized Imperial Japan!
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The westernization game in AHD is ridiculously unfun, it's basically all the flaws of V2 cranked up to 11. It's slow, it's boring, there's no good reliable way to speed it up (it could take decades to get the western influences event or get sphered), and you can't really do anything until you finish.
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Mar 26, 2013 15:34
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DrSunshine posted:It's honestly kind of a drag, I don't particularly recommend it unless you have a great deal of patience. It's mostly just a matter of waiting for enough research points to build up to make another Westernization reform and hoping the Western powers don't gobble you up.
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Mar 26, 2013 15:58
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Fister Roboto posted:The westernization game in AHD is ridiculously unfun, it's basically all the flaws of V2 cranked up to 11. It's slow, it's boring, there's no good reliable way to speed it up (it could take decades to get the western influences event or get sphered), and you can't really do anything until you finish.  Historically, China successfully played Europeans off against each other and made concessions that kept them from being colonized in the ways that DrSunshine mentions, but in V2 China is just a large, weak country with no agency.
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Mar 26, 2013 16:02
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Also if you westernize and then get overthrown by reactionaries, you go back to being an uncivilized nation 
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Mar 26, 2013 16:09
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There go my plans or trying out a Heavenly Kingdom game then. Are uncivs any better with APD? Maybe HoD will make it better.
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Mar 26, 2013 16:15
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Dibujante posted:It would be better if you were less crippled by not being modernized Actually, being China becomes considerably easier, I've found, once you get the Imported Weapons and Foreign Training Methods reforms, because that allows you to build regulars and infantry, as well as mobilize your conscripts. It's rather lovely to press the "Mobilize" button and see armies of 200,000 men pop up all over your country. Being a country of some 300 million, I can raise million-man armies at a touch of a button!  I'm right at 85% now. If I can hold on till I get another 15% to Westernize, I think I'll end up as a great power by sheer might of numbers. Weirdly, I seem to be losing every fight against the Western powers, despite being able to  their armies into submission. Every conflict they seem to get dozens of war score per battle, while every battle I win back only like 0.1% Why is that?!
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 17:21
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Drone posted:There go my plans or trying out a Heavenly Kingdom game then. As I recall, HoD doesn't change it, and APD makes it worse actually because there are no decisions that just hand you 30% and the highest one has been reduced to 15% although I haven't checked the costs so maybe the 15% decisions are also half the cost. Personally, if I play as an unciv, I either a) cheat myself into being a civ if I start in 1861, or b) wait 20 years, then cheat to being a civ in the 1836 start. Playing as one of the Sub-Saharan African nations in EUIII and westernizing as them is a hundred times more fun than it is doing the same thing in V2.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:31
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DrSunshine posted:Weirdly, I seem to be losing every fight against the Western powers, despite being able to You're probably losing tons of peasants per battle or not killing very many enemies so even though you technically win them and you only get good war score from good k:d ratios. I can't play china because most of your country has rear end for support for some reason so you lose half your horde to attrition just by moving it around, unless you patiently split up and micro every single movement. Same with sikh empire and that whole region.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:35
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The other big thing I want changed other than ticking war score is infamy, one of the reasons being an unciv is such poo poo is it takes forever for infamy to go away. In PDM for example you can form the Mali Empire (and maybe vanilla? never play vanilla anymore), but doing so requires outright conquering a bunch of places so unless you save scum the war justifications to get the lowest infamy possible there's no way you'd realistically do it. Infamy is just a lovely blunt instrument for stifling expansion in general and I wouldn't even care if it was taken out completely.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:41
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Well, it only took about 40 years from the start of the game to do it, but I've managed to Westernize as China.  And this is in spite of my maxing out my government spending sliders.  The glorious army that I've built to protect the Middle Kingdom from the foreign devils.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:42
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Now reverse opium war europe.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:45
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DrSunshine posted:oh poo poo Time to get the rest of Canton back.  EDIT: Holy poo poo you have so much money. Turn China into a democratic, socialist paradise; stick it to the white folk!
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Mar 26, 2013 19:46
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Compare your military score to Russia: and England: whichever you beat more, beat them up for their Asian holdings. It's time for either Chinese Siberia or India.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:49
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Fister Roboto posted:The westernization game in AHD is ridiculously unfun, it's basically all the flaws of V2 cranked up to 11. It's slow, it's boring, there's no good reliable way to speed it up (it could take decades to get the western influences event or get sphered), and you can't really do anything until you finish. I think one of the big problems with uncivs is that they're in areas where they can't really expand much because Great Powers/sphered countries are so close. You can gobble up only so many unsphered uncivs before you start to piss off Great Britain or something. I've been trying out a game as the Empire of Massina in APD and been having a ball mostly because I'm blitzkrieging my fellow subsaharan neighbors (here's a map of expansion if you're into that sort of thing, borders are approximations I drew up in MSPaint so they might not be fully accurate but you get the point). Just finished Westernizing and I end up as a Secondary Power, but holy crap is it going to be boring waiting until 1880 so I can start colonizing Africa proper. Maybe I should start building a navy and conquering the East Indies or something before the Dutch finish them off? I dunno.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:52
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toasterwarrior posted:Time to get the rest of Canton back. Now there's an idea. Maybe I can provoke the communist faction into a rebellion. Then we can transition directly from Absolute Monarchy into Proletarian Dictatorship by the 20th century!  I'm more of a match for Russia, but it takes freaking forever to get troops up there, so I'm probably gonna set my sights on kicking the white man out of South Asia.  Now to rapidly industrialize and build factories in all ten gazillion of my provinces...
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Mar 26, 2013 19:56
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DrSunshine posted:Now there's an idea. Maybe I can provoke the communist faction into a rebellion. Then we can transition directly from Absolute Monarchy into Proletarian Dictatorship by the 20th century! Lower taxes on your rich dudes to 0, watch them throw up so many factories.
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Mar 26, 2013 20:33
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Cantorsdust posted:Lower taxes on your rich dudes to 0, watch them throw up so many factories. Then raise your taxes on your poor dudes to 100, watch them riot up so many republics  .Downside is this will first turn you into the Republic of China, and from there getting communists to rebel is harder than if you just stayed a monarchy.
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Mar 26, 2013 20:38
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DrProsek posted:Then raise your taxes on your poor dudes to 100, watch them riot up so many republics If China is a democracy and bad poo poo happens leading them to conclude the people lost the Mandate, do they switch to a Dictatorship...?
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Mar 26, 2013 21:04
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Please paradox stop teasing me with the whole heart of darkness thing. Give me a chance to give you guys money as soon as possible.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:17
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DrSunshine posted:Well, it only took about 40 years from the start of the game to do it, but I've managed to Westernize as China. Yeah civilized china is ridiculously game breaking.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:22
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:Yeah civilized china is ridiculously game breaking. More or less. As the Qing, you can have a higher industrial score than the top 3 great powers combined if you simply encourage craftsman growth in your most populous provinces.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:43
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brocretin posted:Should I be waiting for the earliest tech upgrades to go to war? Also, does a small amount of inflation really matter this early on? Go to war whenever it's expedient for you. Fr a 1399 start I'd probably wait until I had Land Tech 5 for better troops, but if you want to do it as soon as you get the mission to conquer Ceuta, do it then. As for inflation, as the others have said, a little inflation is completely ignorable. I usually end up with 2-3% inflation by the end of the first decade, and 10% or so inflation by the end of the first century. That inflation I've used to create an army, acquire land and vassals, and if I'm playing a trading nation, put 5 merchants into every cot I can reach. Also, if you wait until you have at least 5 inflation and a ruler with an Administration score of 7, hire a banker of at least 3 stars and a statesman (ideally a 5 or 6 star one, but any is better than none). There is a one time event that might trigger (it has a pretty long MTTH) that will reduce your inflation by 5 points. Also, every time you move the Free Subjects slider, there is a 1/3rd chance that you will lose 2 inflation, so make sure you always have at least 2 inflation before moving that slider. For most countries, this means you'll end up losing 4-6 inflation by the time you end up getting that slider pinned at +5 Free Subjects.
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Mar 26, 2013 22:01
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Janissary Hop posted:The other big thing I want changed other than ticking war score is infamy, one of the reasons being an unciv is such poo poo is it takes forever for infamy to go away. In PDM for example you can form the Mali Empire (and maybe vanilla? never play vanilla anymore), but doing so requires outright conquering a bunch of places so unless you save scum the war justifications to get the lowest infamy possible there's no way you'd realistically do it. Infamy is just a lovely blunt instrument for stifling expansion in general and I wouldn't even care if it was taken out completely. DrSunshine posted:
DrProsek posted:Compare your military score to Russia: and England: whichever you beat more, beat them up for their Asian holdings. It's time for either Chinese Siberia or India. WhitemageofDOOM posted:Yeah civilized china is ridiculously game breaking.
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Mar 27, 2013 02:04
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:So is civilized India. The game was never meant to have a strong Western power with such a stupidly high population, it just destroys the economic model. And it's beautiful. There's just something amazing about seeing the liberal democratic Republic of China becoming the world's dominant power and forcibly de-colonizing most of Asia.
Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 05:59
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Mister Bates posted:And it's beautiful. Different game but I still remember when I formed and westernized Hindustan in EUIII. I later invaded Great Britain, liberated Scotland, and vassalized England as a forward operating base in case any other European powers got uppity. That came in handy when France started a border war with me over our colonial border in northern Mexico.
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Mar 27, 2013 06:04
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Johan is live on http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive It's craaaazy! He could say anything!
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Mar 27, 2013 13:30
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Hi Paradox friends, I hadn't seen it posted but Paradox is currently livestreaming and will be showing off CK: Old Gods, EU4 and Heart of Darkness, also there's a sale on the Paradox website and you get keys which activate on steam. It is a good day for strategy.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:31
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Restoring the Roman Empire as the Ottomans is overrated.  Close enough.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:44
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Military refroms for uncivs in V2 will now let you gain research points for modernizing by conquering neighboring uncivs. HoD needs to come out right now. I can't wait to start the Zulu science program.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:52
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Captain No-mates posted:Hi Paradox friends, I hadn't seen it posted but Paradox is currently livestreaming and will be showing off CK: Old Gods, EU4 and Heart of Darkness, also there's a sale on the Paradox website and you get keys which activate on steam. It is a good day for strategy.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:57
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I hope they clarify whether Transvaal and Oranje are going to need naval bases in order to compete in the colonization game, but I'm also not entirely sure I want to sit here listening to this guy play Greece for two hours just on that hope.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:08
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ThePutty posted:Restoring the Roman Empire as the Ottomans is overrated. I say this a lot, Persia has some amazingly good provinces. There must be at least half a dozen 8+ base tax with high manpower and quite a few 10+ ones.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:33
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DrSunshine posted:Weirdly, I seem to be losing every fight against the Western powers, despite being able to It's scaled by the % of your army in the battle, so since you are not actually using much of it it generates less score. It's a minor battle for you. If you didn't catch the stream: HoD release date confirmed for April 16th! Also there's a sale on the Paradox Webshop, it gives Steam codes.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:46
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RabidWeasel posted:I say this a lot, Persia has some amazingly good provinces. There must be at least half a dozen 8+ base tax with high manpower and quite a few 10+ ones. This makes sense - I always am sad when I see an oddly weak Persia in EU3.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:57
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For all the crap I give Vicky 2, one thing I really like is this: if you try to be progressive, your people start becoming reactionary; and if you try to be regressive, your people become more and more revolutionary.
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Mar 27, 2013 15:14
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Hazmat Sam posted:Military refroms for uncivs in V2 will now let you gain research points for modernizing by conquering neighboring uncivs.  ... now just add a better way for modernizing as a peaceful unciv and I will love Paradox forever (note: I'm not watching the stream so I have no way of knowing if this was not also mentioned).Fister Roboto posted:For all the crap I give Vicky 2, one thing I really like is this: if you try to be progressive, your people start becoming reactionary; and if you try to be regressive, your people become more and more revolutionary. Yeah, on the one hand it always feels weird to have my nation beat and arrest socialist protesters in order to help them get stronger, but it makes sense in the context of the socialists needing a clear thing they can point to as the government's abuse of power in killing protesters for pointing out the truth about them, and likewise for reactionaries have little to point to about the country losing its way if no massive progressive changes have happened in the last few years.
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Mar 27, 2013 15:20
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Beamed posted:This makes sense - I always am sad when I see an oddly weak Persia in EU3. It seems to always end up shattered into tiny bits when the Timurids die and nobody seems to really care about unifying it. One of the things I want most badly from EU4 is some events/DHEs to help both Persia and the Mughals form more frequently since they were kind of important in defining politics in and around the Middle East and India.
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Mar 27, 2013 15:34
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Exile the Poles to Africa! A Historically Accurate Mod. 
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Mar 27, 2013 15:52
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True story, when I tell people I'm Polish they ask me "Oh what's it like being a white African?". drat Otto von Bismark, I tell ya....
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Mar 27, 2013 15:57
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