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Reiley posted:Valve did an experiment on the TF2 beta servers once where they doubled everyone's health and kept everything else the same. What ultimately happened was in an environment where health increased and damage output didn't increase accordingly classes that can do sustained DPS became the only viable damage-dealers while burst-damage classes with limited ammo and reload times fell sharply in effectiveness. If they aren't also boosting weapon damage then your high-capacity ARs and SMGs will be more effective than shotguns and snipers, which is sad because I like burstier gameplay better than click-and-hold rapid-fire weapons. I'm completely the opposite, I want to hold down mouse 1 for an entire minute and never have to reload. But in BL2 if you try to play that way, the fact that enemies proportionally do orders of magnitude more damage to you means that you can't leave yourself exposed long enough to sustain fire, or some guy with a white bandit pistol will run up and kill you in two shots.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:05
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I'm ok with the slag bit because we're getting 11 additional skill points, which will make it easier to reach those top level skills that add slag to your abilities.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:20
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Gestalt Intellect posted:I'm completely the opposite, I want to hold down mouse 1 for an entire minute and never have to reload. But in BL2 if you try to play that way, the fact that enemies proportionally do orders of magnitude more damage to you means that you can't leave yourself exposed long enough to sustain fire, or some guy with a white bandit pistol will run up and kill you in two shots. Do they really do increased damage to you? I always assumed they used the same randomly-generated guns as you but they had more health and the occasional Amp shield.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:25
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Reiley posted:Do they really do increased damage to you? I always assumed they used the same randomly-generated guns as you but they had more health and the occasional Amp shield. Technically the damage numbers are the same, but the exponential increases to your health, to enemy health, and to the damage of weapons (and of enemies that don't use weapons) are all different. Right around level 30 those differences become pronounced enough that the balance really starts to disintegrate, and because the rates of increase are exponential it only gets worse from there. That's why it can take three magazines from a certain gun to kill something, while it can just gesture menacingly at you to drop you to the health gate in one hit.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:32
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Tin Tim posted:I'm literally at the end of my first TVHM run, and have never used a single slag weapon in combat. I'm pretty sure that's because I play Axton and drop my turret when things get hard though. I just had the impression that the new mode basically becomes hell without slag. But we'll see, I'm honestly excited to try it. The only character I have at the moment is a Gunzerker, and PT2.5 is basically making GBS threads out as much burst DPS as possible or die. Until I found my pair of Harolds every fight involved me using a slag gun and another high powered weapon of the same type to make sure things died quickly enough.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:32
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Jabarto posted:That's another thing, even at level 50, 4x health will make things crazy hard. Add another 10 levels and it will literally become unplayable unless something changes, so at least there's some hope that the scaling will be revisisted. Something that should be noted is damage scaling. Gear doesn't scale linearly last I recall in BL2, so that 4x health may just feel like 2x health once you've gotten better gear.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:38
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Drakes posted:Something that should be noted is damage scaling. Gear doesn't scale linearly last I recall in BL2, so that 4x health may just feel like 2x health once you've gotten better gear. Except that 4x is on top of the exponential health scaling they already have, which scales faster than gear, so the 4x is going to be more like 12x even with same-level gear.
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Mar 30, 2013 00:41
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Alpha Kenny Juan posted:One of Axton's skill tree leads to slag turret. Respek the respec! A longbow-turret that triggers a nuke, shoots rockets and has two slag barrels? 
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Mar 30, 2013 00:53
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Man, reading the official forums is disheartening. Anarchy+close enough+ blood soaked shields + fire confrence call = whine that the game is too easy and there's no challenge anymore.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:22
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Please tell me those changes to slag weapons and weapon swap speed apply to all difficulties. I tried using slag weapons single player and was disappointed at how incredibly short the debuff lasted.
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Mar 30, 2013 01:50
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Ardeem posted:Man, reading the official forums is disheartening. To be fair, that's about the same suggestion I see a lot around here when people ask for tips on gaige. Edit: Minus conference call.
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Mar 30, 2013 02:07
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Don't use Close Enough if you're even remotely competent at FPSes, Anarchy is way more rewarding without it.
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Mar 30, 2013 02:14
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Reiley posted:Don't use Close Enough if you're even remotely competent at FPSes, Anarchy is way more rewarding without it. Isn't it impossible to hit anything other than the things you are not aiming at without Close Enough?
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Mar 30, 2013 02:51
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isoprenaline posted:Isn't it impossible to hit anything other than the things you are not aiming at without Close Enough? Nope, that is a myth! I've played my whole Gaige playthrough sans-Close Enough and I've done quite well for myself. I strongly favor shotguns but I like to play around with all the other weapon types too, the trick of it is you have to understand how accuracy works with high- and low-accuracy guns and how far that reduces your effective range so you have to play smarter to land those gigantic damage meatshots. It totally works, it's just like a bucking bronco where you gotta know how it kicks and turns to learn how to control it, which is why Hammerlock called it the most rewarding skill in the intro video. Here's my skill build, shield and class mod setup if you want to give it a try:  Anarchy works without Close Enough and I can't recommend trying it enough.
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Mar 30, 2013 03:03
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isoprenaline posted:Isn't it impossible to hit anything other than the things you are not aiming at without Close Enough? Not if you use the Slow Hand. Get one that let's you shoot 3 shots for one bullet. I say this because I noticed E-Tech weapons don't get affected by the accuracy loss nearly as badly as normal weapons. Plus, the explosion from each shot almost ensures you hit something.
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Mar 30, 2013 03:12
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I'm pretty sure at somewhere around 400-600 stacks low-accuracy shotguns will quite possibly not hit anything on your screen when you fire them, but other than that you just need to be closer for most things. Also, for long range you might want to try picking up a homing e-tech pistol, I had some success with one.
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Mar 30, 2013 03:27
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Fibby Boy posted:Not if you use the Slow Hand. Get one that let's you shoot 3 shots for one bullet. I say this because I noticed E-Tech weapons don't get affected by the accuracy loss nearly as badly as normal weapons. Plus, the explosion from each shot almost ensures you hit something. Splatguns in general are pretty fun, they lob like Demoman grenade launchers. Jakob's revolvers are really handy for having relatively high accuracy and damage but when you get into FFYL they can be a crapshoot whether they save you or not. Guns like the Sand Hawk or the Unkempt Harold where bullets are forced in close proximity make great recovery guns because their inaccuracy is sort of controlled by their mechanics. Also whatever you're using, firing from iron sights or a scope tightens your spread a lot- this is especially true of shotguns. The best scopes for shotguns are the ones where you still have peripheral vision but even if you get one of the tunnel-vision ones you can click M2,M1 quickly when you're ready to fire to get some fast bullet spread containment. Dahl assault rifles work surprisingly well with medium-high Anarchy because of the way their bursts work, it keeps really tight patterns and also empties a rifle pretty quickly. Zereth posted:I'm pretty sure at somewhere around 400-600 stacks low-accuracy shotguns will quite possibly not hit anything on your screen when you fire them, but other than that you just need to be closer for most things. This is roughly what you'll be working with above 300 Anarchy:  This is also why you need to close the distance gap, it isn't so much an accuracy penalty as it is an optimal range penalty. Low-accuracy shotguns like Torgues work like if a Mack truck was a melee weapon but guns with higher accuracy ratings are a little easier to manage. e: Also if you need to be accurate you can burn a few stacks with Discord, do what you have to do and Discord back to normal Anarchy. When I first fought BNK-3R I spent the whole fightin Discord getting 25 stacks from 0 and jumping to splash his cannons with Death from Above until I hit 0 stacks and jumped back to 25 again. Its sort of an alternate approach for big out-of-reach boss fights like that and the Warrior. Reiley fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 03:27
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Have they said if the level cap increase is specific only to the third playthrough? It'd kind of suck if TVHM was still stuck at level 50-53. Also, it just occurred to me that raid bosses are going to be even more idiotic on UVHM.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:45
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UnknownMercenary posted:Have they said if the level cap increase is specific only to the third playthrough? It'd kind of suck if TVHM was still stuck at level 50-53. That's what I am concerned about. I have played through the main story 8 times and all the DLCs several times each (except hammerlock, that I was just messing around in hoping to save it for a cap upgrade when BAM it was over. I would prefer to just sit on top of the station at Lynchwood popping heads and getting a little experience than having to start all over again. And then go straight into the new DLCs when released. Torgue and Hammerlock DLCs are going to suck at higher levels unless the damage/health ratio for enemies is sorted out.
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Mar 30, 2013 06:23
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Wait, seriously, 4x health? Man, gently caress Gearbox, good lord. I haven't touched this game in ages because it just gets to be a slog at around 50, this is not enticing me to buy Krieg and come back 
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Mar 30, 2013 09:38
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isoprenaline posted:Torgue and Hammerlock DLCs are going to suck at higher levels unless the damage/health ratio for enemies is sorted out. Imagine slagged enemy types! Slagged floating spores! Corrupted Witch Doctors! What a strange game, the only winning move is not to play.
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Mar 30, 2013 10:23
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To me that announcement reaffirms that Gearbox have no idea why Borderlands is fun. It's like watching Blizzard defend their choices with Diablo 3, only Blizzard have since realized their mistakes but Geabox just keep digging.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:38
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Borderlands 2 PC - Game balance as broke as my momma's girl parts
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Mar 30, 2013 11:41
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Yeah, it looks like it's becoming a game about being an Ultimate Badass Killer Dude(ette)!!! ...that hides behind crates to take potshots at his foes, constantly retreating whenever they start to close in. Greenplastic fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 11:46
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It amazes me how both Blizzard and Gearbox missed that people play these sorts of games to kill tons and tons of enemies and get tons and tons of loot. Not grinding down one enemy and getting nothing for it.
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Mar 30, 2013 12:28
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After spending a long time in TVHM I went back and started a new character and realized how much more fun PT1 is, it really helped highlight the awful flaws in PT2/2.5 and I doubt I'm going to bother with any DLC except maybe the extra characters. That said, I had an absolutely wonderful time for most of the 175ish hours I played the game, so I'm still pretty happy overall. I just won't be an ongoing player like they had hoped. Sloppy fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 16:57
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FirstPersonShitter posted:It amazes me how both Blizzard and Gearbox missed that people play these sorts of games to kill tons and tons of enemies and get tons and tons of loot. Not grinding down one enemy and getting nothing for it. Again, I want to point out that this is not the case according to the official forums. The fans who post there actively ask gearbox to make the game harder and gearbox listened. I mean yeah not getting anything for a particularly hard fight sucks but I'm still looking forward to even more of a challenge. Though I don't see why gearbox couldn't have added a different difficulty option. Something like Ultimate Loot Hunter Mode where enemies aren't nearly as hard hitting and don't have much health but still scale up to the player level. Then again I don't know how hard something like that would be to implement.
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Mar 30, 2013 17:07
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But wait now there's going to be legendary loot midgets that might drop legendaries (maybe probably not). Just like chests you know a 1 in a million loving chance.
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Mar 30, 2013 17:22
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I am a bit iffy on the whole 4x health thing but everything else about it seems alright to me. Also on the bright side, between fights taking longer and ammo drops supposedly being more frequent, maybe Critical Ascensi0n will finally be useful (especially if you don't have to give up Death Bl0ss0m for it). 
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Mar 30, 2013 17:30
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Fibby Boy posted:Again, I want to point out that this is not the case according to the official forums. The fans who post there actively ask gearbox to make the game harder and gearbox listened. I mean yeah not getting anything for a particularly hard fight sucks but I'm still looking forward to even more of a challenge. Though I don't see why gearbox couldn't have added a different difficulty option. Something like Ultimate Loot Hunter Mode where enemies aren't nearly as hard hitting and don't have much health but still scale up to the player level. Then again I don't know how hard something like that would be to implement. When you're fully decked out in level 50 legendaries, of course there's not going to be much of a challenge. Balancing the game around that is just stupid.
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Mar 30, 2013 17:31
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Kaethela posted:When you're fully decked out in level 50 legendaries, of course there's not going to be much of a challenge. Balancing the game around that is just stupid. UVHM isn't the entire game though. From what I can see it's MEANT to challenge the best of the best. How they chose to go about it is dubious, sure (even I'm not going to defend 4x health), but nobody's making anyone play it, and nobody actually cares if you don't. I'm still going to give it a try because I'm one of those people who didn't have too much trouble with TVHM, but I'm not going to weep softly in a corner if I don't end up finishing it. One thing I'm curious about, though, is that they mentioned enemies having 4x health, but does that also apply to shields? If enemies have 4x health but only 1x shields that would make it a little more manageable (also it'd maybe make incendiary damage not suck outside of very specific situations).
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Mar 30, 2013 17:45
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Hey now guys I play as a Close Enough/Anarchy Gaige and you should listen to why I think this game is too easy because
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Mar 30, 2013 18:24
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Sloppy posted:After spending a long time in TVHM I went back and started a new character and realized how much more fun PT1 is, it really helped highlight the awful flaws in PT2/2.5 and I doubt I'm going to bother with any DLC except maybe the extra characters. Sorry for being dense, but when you (and others) say PT1, PT2, and PT2.5 are you referring to parts of the story, or is there some difficulty thing I'm not aware of besides "first game then TVHM next game"?
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Mar 30, 2013 18:36
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Ciaphas posted:Sorry for being dense, but when you (and others) say PT1, PT2, and PT2.5 are you referring to parts of the story, or is there some difficulty thing I'm not aware of besides "first game then TVHM next game"? Playthrough 1 (PT1) is the first run of the entire game. Playthrough 2 (PT2) is True Vault Hunter Mode, which kicks in on your second run. Playthrough 2.5 (PT2.5) occurs when you beat the game the second time. Everything scales up to the level cap including any side quests you haven't accepted up to that point. The storyline doesn't reset, so it isn't another full playthrough. Hope that clears things up for you.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:38
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Kaethela posted:When you're fully decked out in level 50 legendaries, of course there's not going to be much of a challenge. Balancing the game around that is just stupid. Hence my "mode for people who want a challenge/mode for people who want to loot things" idea. Not having a challenge in the game is what ruined borderlands 1 for me and I'm seriously looking forward to having the game kick my rear end in UVHM.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:50
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Phreizr posted:One thing I'm curious about, though, is that they mentioned enemies having 4x health, but does that also apply to shields? If enemies have 4x health but only 1x shields that would make it a little more manageable (also it'd maybe make incendiary damage not suck outside of very specific situations). It won't matter because enemies will have health regen. Sadly you won't have Ammo regen (unless you are a Gunzerker).
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Mar 30, 2013 18:56
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mastersord posted:It won't matter because enemies will have health regen. Sadly you won't have Ammo regen (unless you are a Gunzerker). And that's why you should have rolled Salvador
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Mar 30, 2013 19:08
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mastersord posted:It won't matter because enemies will have health regen. Sadly you won't have Ammo regen (unless you are a Gunzerker). With more ammo drops and larger ammo SDUs that shouldn't really be a problem.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:22
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Can't wait to get a measly 10 more sniper rounds for the pitifully small sniper ammo count 
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Mar 30, 2013 19:44
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I think it's kind of weird they are buffing Slag so much for UVHM, i was of the opinion that Slag was easily the most important element for TVHM as it is.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:51
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