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Milky_Sauce posted:The irony being that this is the exact same outcome of communism (a handful of reach people and a shitload of poor people). "reach people"  Actually, that's just the outcome of despotism - power and wealth concentrated into a smaller and increasingly more powerful group of people. Capitalism is one of the worst offenders by far - which is why we have regulation instead of a pure free market; unregulated capitalism results in counter-intuitive anti-human means of arriving at profits (such as making a profit off of people's misfortune & misery, as opposed to profiting from their mutual profit) and virtual (or literal) slavery. Communism's biggest flaw meanwhile is that for all its attempts to equalize things, it is a highly paternalistic system which places too much trust in the representatives of the people, that they won't abuse their position through incompetence/corruption/greed. (Which as history has shown, they always do. Hence the 'communism looks good on paper, but fails due to human nature' statements.) Please note that the problems that Soviet Russia had largely due to incompetence and corruption were quickly outpaced by the insane free market capitalism post-Soviet collapse, which lead to the oligarchs ratfucking the country. People were miserable before the collapse of the soviet union, but they were REALLY miserable when the newly privatized & unchecked markets imploded and people were selling off their shares to the oligarchs just so they could feed themselves. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 15:54
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Spacedad posted:A reply. Okay, so the equating is being done between the TP and the bad guys in the films. I thought you were going for something else and as a result had a moment of not being able to see the forest for the trees.
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Mar 30, 2013 18:09
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Milky_Sauce posted:The irony being that this is the exact same outcome of communism (a handful of reach people and a shitload of poor people). No, that's the outcome of totalitarianism. Communism was a shiny but ultimately misapplied label the Soviets used; see also Democratic People's Republic of Korea (also known as that haven of democracy and/or republican government North Korea) The whole thing with Marxism is that it predicts that an industrialized nation will naturally evolve into socialism as a way to address the issues with capitalism (chiefly: a handful of rich people and a shitload of poor people) which will then evolve into a classless, communal society. Tsarist Russia and pre-Mao China were hardly industrialized, capitalist states; they were EXTREMELY backwards - Russia in particular was basically still feudal - so the revolutionaries in Russia (and later China, which adapted Marxist-Leninist policies from Russia and gave them their own twist which became Maoism) created the concept of a "vanguard party" which would be a nominally benevolent dictatorship of intellectual revolutionaries that would guide the country through industrialization and then relinquish power and let socialism blossom. To the surprise of no one, people in power don't like to just give up the reigns of power out of the kindness of their hearts which is why most "communist" countries that tried the "vanguard party" idea turned into despotic hellholes. That's a pretty simplistic explanation and if anyone else wants to expand upon this, feel free. Beaten! 
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Mar 30, 2013 18:51
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Spacedad posted:Can you say 'I'm a little despot, short and stout'? Exactly. I'll go a step further and say that the Tea Party is a full-blown fascist movement. Let's compare the gee shucks good ol' patriots in the Tea Party with this list, shall we (link for original commentary; my commentary below): http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html 1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition. ...even if the traditions are contradictory. The Tea Party worships at the alter of traditionalism. They love the Bible and want to make everyone else love the Bible... or else. At the same time, they also long to return to the (economic) "good ol' days" of the Gilded Age and the (social) "good ol' days" of some alternate reality 1950's that never actually existed. "Tradition is always good, we just need to return to our traditions and America will be #1 again!", says the Tea Partier while holding The Bible in one hand and Atlas Shrugged in the other. 2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism. The Tea Party rejects pretty much every advance American society has made since at least the 60's, if not earlier in many cases (i.e. the slavery apologists). Modern, permissive, secular society is soundly rejected by the Tea Partier. 3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake. The Tea Party is EXTREMELY anti-intellectual. They seriously believe that knowing things and having a higher education is bad because all non-homeschool education is just liberal brainwashing. They want to build a wall across the southern border, invade Iran, build a pipeline no one actually wants, etc. They don't critically evaluate anything they do; in fact, critical evaluation is seen as more liberal brainwashing. 4. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. The linked article sums this up as "disagreement is treason to the Ur-fascist". I don't really think I even need to comment on this one. They are engaged in a constant witch hunt to drive anyone who doesn't 5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity. Diversity terrifies and angers Tea Partiers. Anything outside of their boring, white, fat, dumb world is instantly viewed by suspicion at best or seething, murderous contempt at worse and this applies to pretty much anyone: minorities, homosexuals, etc. etc. 6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration. "That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.", says the article. This is going to sound EXTREMELY familiar to most of us. The Tea Party took off with the public during a time of economic turmoil (the financial crash) and political defeat (the 2008 election) at the hands of a black dude (the Tea Party generally sees minorities as "beneath" them, so a black dude winning soundly put them into panic mode). 7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. Extreme nationalism right here. 'murka is the best country ever and they're all proud, patriotic 'murkans. 8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. The article further clarifies by saying a tenant of fascist thought is to portray your enemies as something to be simultaneously feared ("Obama is going to implement Sharia Law and take ARE GUNS and make grandma face a death panel and round all of us up and put us in FEMA camps and...") and ridiculed ("LOL. Teleprompter. Grey Poupon. Arugula. Heh. He only got into college because of affirmative action and was too dumb to hold a 'real job'. He didn't even WIN the election. ACORN stole it for him. Stupid Kenyan.  "); their enemies are simultaneously overpoweringly strong and laughably weak. Since Tea Partiers are masters at compartmentalized thinking/doublethink - holding two separate, contradictory beliefs - they have no problem with this.9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. "We are AT WAR with the liberals and ARE COUNTRY is at stake! Anyone who tries to compromise is a TRAITOR. I will gladly lay down my life once CW2 starts. Yeeehaw!" 10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak. Fascist movements often have a sort of "populist elitism". It tries to appeal to the common man... by telling them that they're the REAL 'murkans (in this case) and that they're true patriots in the best country on earth. All of them. As for contempt for the weak? Yeah. I think we all know the Tea Party's stance on welfare/food stamps/etc. 11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero. Note how the Tea Partiers want nothing more, in many cases, than to lay down their life by plinking away at armed troops with their .22 rifles. To non-fascists, death is an unpleasant thing and should be a somber affair. Tea Partiers/fascists however love the idea of senselessly throwing away their lives for their cause. Being a hero isn't a thing to be commended, to them, it's an expectation that everyone should be willing to die, if necessary, for the movement. 12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. Just gonna go ahead and quote the article here: "This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons -- doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise." That's basically teaparty.txt right there. 13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say. To the dyed-in-the-wool Tea Partier, even the right wing Republicans are no longer in touch with the Will of the People and must be excised from the Tea Party like a tumor for the crime of being even .00001% out of step. They also purport to speak for a "silent majority" of people that just so happen to have the same views as they do. The Tea Party, they claim, is the real voice of the people. 14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. "Why isn't the "lamestream media" reporting about "*insert-thing-a-Democrat-didgate*"? I blame the feminazis. And the RINOs." The Tea Party absolutely WALLOWS in cutesy little terms for things more befitting a child that ultimately have the effect of dumbing down the language which then impacts their ability to discuss, and eventually to even comprehend, a given issue. In summary, Teabaggers are Literal Fascists by CCCP, age 5.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:33
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This is from yesterday, but it's still sticking in my craw. My sister, now a mother of two who first became pregnant at 17 and got a lot of good advice and care from Planned Parenthood, would like to respectfully disagree with your loving nonsense.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:50
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insert_funny posted:This is from yesterday, but it's still sticking in my craw. Well, they get all their information on Planned Parenthood from their preacher. Plus, most of these silly idiots could have used planned parenthood.
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Mar 30, 2013 19:51
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Between going back to university and studying these idiots, I've been doing a lot of political soul-searching and have started to realize that I might be some degree of a socialist since I think most of society's problems could be solved or at least largely mitigated if we rounded up the worst hoarders,
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Mar 30, 2013 20:00
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thehumandignity posted:Between going back to university and studying these idiots, I've been doing a lot of political soul-searching and have started to realize that I might be some degree of a socialist since I think most of society's problems if we rounded up the worst hoarders,
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Mar 30, 2013 20:01
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Some people on TPC believe that giving homosexuals rights will lead to homosexuals suing churches for not hiring them. To believe that requires so many basic misconceptions about how the world works I don't even know where to start.
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Mar 30, 2013 20:07
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thehumandignity posted:Between going back to university and studying these idiots, I've been doing a lot of political soul-searching and have started to realize that I might be some degree of a socialist since I think most of society's problems could be solved or at least largely mitigated if we rounded up the worst hoarders, 
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Mar 30, 2013 20:09
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precision posted:Some people on TPC believe that giving homosexuals rights will lead to homosexuals suing churches for not hiring them. So now they cannot tell how legal vs illegal discrimination works? Great.
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Mar 30, 2013 20:11
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precision posted:Some people on TPC believe that giving homosexuals rights will lead to homosexuals suing churches for not hiring them. Basic misconceptions about how the world works you say? http://www.tennessean.com/viewart/20130325/NEWS02/303250057/TN-lawmakers-confuse-mop-sink-Muslim-foot-washing-sink  FYI: These same people insist on 'teaching the controversy' about global warming and evolution. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/21/448803/tennessee-passes-monkey-bill-to-teach-the-controversy-on-evolution-and-climate-science/
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Mar 30, 2013 20:33
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Spacedad posted:FYI: These same people insist on 'teaching the controversy' about global warming and evolution. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/21/448803/tennessee-passes-monkey-bill-to-teach-the-controversy-on-evolution-and-climate-science/ This makes me froth a little with rage every time I read it. And Georgia is doing the same thing, hell Georgia has a congressman on the House Science Committee who called the Theory of Evolution and Big Bang Theory 'tricks of the devil'
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Mar 30, 2013 20:36
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thehumandignity posted:Between going back to university and studying these idiots, I've been doing a lot of political soul-searching and have started to realize that I might be some degree of a socialist since I think most of society's problems could be solved or at least largely mitigated if we rounded up the worst hoarders, I came exceptionally close to writing a term paper dissecting the tea-party using TPC as a real time pool of ever fresh citations but I was afraid I'd blur the line of 'scholarly dissertation' and 'come with me and laugh at these people'. Oh well, maybe next time.
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Mar 30, 2013 20:41
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precision posted:Some people on TPC believe that giving homosexuals rights will lead to homosexuals suing churches for not hiring them. Not just that...they also believe that legalizing gay marriage will force churches to perform gay weddings against their will.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:29
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smg77 posted:Not just that...they also believe that legalizing gay marriage will force churches to perform gay weddings against their will. Which is odd because, believe it or not, a lot of us  don't really want to be married in your stupid church.
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Mar 30, 2013 21:59
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I've had to take the last few days off because I've been pretty busy, (Soros have mercy!) but God drat the Joe hilarity never ends.
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Mar 30, 2013 22:36
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Which is odd because, believe it or not, a lot of us It's amazing how often defenders of "traditional marriage" use the religious freedom argument to claim that hordes of gays and lesbians will be queuing up to FORCE THEM  to perform marriage ceremonies. It's a completely moot point because no matter what the law says, neither party has any interest whatsoever in being involved in that kind of scenario (except for the case of troll weddings, which would be hilarious)
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Mar 30, 2013 22:48
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Von Bek posted:It's amazing how often defenders of "traditional marriage" use the religious freedom argument to claim that hordes of gays and lesbians will be queuing up to FORCE THEM I now have image of prank weddings; the church is full and the priest goes through the entire service until the groom lifts the veil for the kiss and surprise gay wedding, the bride has four days' growth on his face.
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Mar 30, 2013 22:58
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My mother couldn't get married in her hometown's church (Roman Catholic and my dad was previously divorced) despite her marriage desires being 100% legal; I'm sure it must happen often enough that they would know this, and are deliberately clouding the issue (or at least have their heads phenomenally under the sand).
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Mar 30, 2013 23:22
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C.C.C.P. posted:
I think that there's one key element missing from the Tea Party being fascists - they have no leader to glomp onto. "State as hero" is a critical element of a fascist movement. For the Tea Party, that state is "Real America", because the real America doesn't meet their standards. However, "Real America" has no defined leader - no one leads the Tea Party in the kind of extremely visible manner you'd expect from a fascist movement. Sure, they've tried - Sarah Palin failed as the head. I think if Paul Ryan labeled himself as a Tea Party-er, he could make it as the head.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:04
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Red Crown posted:I think that there's one key element missing from the Tea Party being fascists - they have no leader to glomp onto.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:25
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Red Crown posted:I think that there's one key element missing from the Tea Party being fascists - they have no leader to glomp onto. "State as hero" is a critical element of a fascist movement. For the Tea Party, that state is "Real America", because the real America doesn't meet their standards. However, "Real America" has no defined leader - no one leads the Tea Party in the kind of extremely visible manner you'd expect from a fascist movement. Sure, they've tried - Sarah Palin failed as the head. I think if Paul Ryan labeled himself as a Tea Party-er, he could make it as the head. Sarah Palin and that war crimes guy are pretty big figureheads for them.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:26
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Red Crown posted:I think that there's one key element missing from the Tea Party being fascists - they have no leader to glomp onto. "State as hero" is a critical element of a fascist movement. For the Tea Party, that state is "Real America", because the real America doesn't meet their standards. However, "Real America" has no defined leader - no one leads the Tea Party in the kind of extremely visible manner you'd expect from a fascist movement. Sure, they've tried - Sarah Palin failed as the head. I think if Paul Ryan labeled himself as a Tea Party-er, he could make it as the head. Isn't Rand Paul the closest thing to a 'tea party leader'? He seems to be making headway in that direction.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:28
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djw175 posted:Sarah Palin and that war crimes guy are pretty big figureheads for them. Allan West? Seems a good example of a fascist leader all the way down to his glorious military career.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:39
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Red Crown posted:I think if Paul Ryan labeled himself as a Tea Party-er, he could make it as the head. Nah. He's way, way too boring. Palin is a horrible person and a moron, but she has some charisma and knows how to work a crowd; Ryan fits the horrible person criteria, and he's not completely stupid, but he's white rice on wonderbread toast with a side of water boring. Rubio is no good either, he's a complete dork. Cruz could maybe pull it off if he can get the racists on board without twisting their brains into gooey knots over the birther thing. Rand Paul probably could also if he pulled back a bit on the libertarian poo poo, but he's a true believer, so that's not likely. Basically we're all safe for now.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:42
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etalian posted:Allan West? Yeah that guy. See they're not racist. They just support literal criminals.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:52
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etalian posted:Allan West? I read this as Adam West at first. Maybe we should try and get them to glom onto Batman as their leader? He's just crazy enough to fit in.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:54
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tallian posted:I read this as Adam West at first. Rorschach is the most TPC comic book hero.
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Mar 31, 2013 01:59
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tallian posted:I read this as Adam West at first. Adam West would be a vast improvement over the current Tea Party nutjobs.
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Mar 31, 2013 02:00
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tallian posted:I read this as Adam West at first.
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Mar 31, 2013 02:00
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univbee posted:My mother couldn't get married in her hometown's church (Roman Catholic and my dad was previously divorced) despite her marriage desires being 100% legal; I'm sure it must happen often enough that they would know this, and are deliberately clouding the issue (or at least have their heads phenomenally under the sand). A lot of people have had the same situation occur. Most churches want you to be a member, or at least make a hefty donation (read bribe) to get married in the church. I am of the opinion that a marriage performed by the appropriate official is a sanctioned marriage, no matter who you are. My husband and I were married by a JP, so is my marriage illegal somehow? I guess TPC people would think so.
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Mar 31, 2013 02:30
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Mafic Cloud posted:Most churches want you to be a member, or at least make a hefty donation (read bribe) to get married in the church.  You must hang out in some hosed-up or severely regressive churches.edit: Oh, sounds like a Catholic/Mormon/non-Protestant thing Hazo fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 31, 2013 02:52
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Hazo posted:
It's called the South.
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Mar 31, 2013 02:55
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univbee posted:My mother couldn't get married in her hometown's church (Roman Catholic and my dad was previously divorced) despite her marriage desires being 100% legal; I'm sure it must happen often enough that they would know this, and are deliberately clouding the issue (or at least have their heads phenomenally under the sand). Yup, the whole thing is a huge canard because churches deny marrying people all the time. My mother-in-law couldn't get married at her fiance's Catholic church because she wasn't Catholic and had been divorced. I had a few Christian (in name only) friends who wanted to have the whole wedding in a church deal, but gave it up because every pastor wanted to do a "couples counseling" session first that amounted to weeding out the not-religious-enough. And none of them would really rent out their church and let just anyone officiate just any wedding. On the flip side, I have a cousin who married a Mormon. She converted and everything and got to get married in a Mormon Temple. Her non-Mormon parents couldn't attend their own daughter's wedding. So, gays will start suing churches for not marrying them, right after non-Mormans/Jews/Catholics/Muslims start suing Temples/Synagogs/Cathedrals/Mosques for not marrying them. In other words, it is a stupid argument made by people who more than likely got themselves married by some non-denominational priest-for-hire, like most Americans.
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Mar 31, 2013 02:55
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$3016.00 That is how much TPC has raised this month. Kind of a far cry from the $10000 they did in February. This number will only go down, especially as goons lose interest, the site doesn't have any sort of tangible enemy, and the site just becomes a milquetoast depository for the Obamaest Image Macros U Got. Schadenfreude
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Mar 31, 2013 03:07
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So I saw a link to probably the most depressing website in existence. http://thelastcivilright.org/about/ There is no  big enough.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:23
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Schizotek posted:So I saw a link to probably the most depressing website in existence. Besides the About page reading as "I'm a strong black conservative woman that don't need nobama", that's not that much farther off from most of the Tea Party crap we see bandied about. Although apparently they get *really* pissed if you try and compare the Civil Rights Movement 2000 to Civil Rights Movement 1960 because they were persecuted based on the color of their skin, while gays and lesbians just have their weird fetishes.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:40
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Besides the About page reading as "I'm a strong black conservative woman that don't need nobama", that's not that much farther off from most of the Tea Party crap we see bandied about. Although apparently they get *really* pissed if you try and compare the Civil Rights Movement 2000 to Civil Rights Movement 1960 because they were persecuted based on the color of their skin, while gays and lesbians just have their weird fetishes. Well there's the fact that Jim Crow systematically stripped blacks of literally every Constitutional right it possibly could and there were literal police conspiracies involving the mass unlawful arrest and imprisonment of black protesters under false charges and it was basically worse in every way possible regardless of the "reasons" for the discrimination, so yeah, homophobia aside, it is sort of understandable.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:45
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thehumandignity posted:Well there's the fact that Jim Crow systematically stripped blacks of literally every Constitutional right it possibly could and there were literal police conspiracies involving the mass unlawful arrest and imprisonment of black protesters under false charges and it was basically worse in every way possible regardless of the "reasons" for the discrimination, so yeah, homophobia aside, it is sort of understandable. None of that was brought up, really, although it would make a convincing argument if it was. The evidence presented was that slavery happened, then they were screwed with by the government, and blacks are still persecuted and beat up for being black, and the trayvon martin business. quote:Blacks were enslaved, lynched, whipped, and hunted down by vicious dogs, to list just a few of their past adversities. What adversities that are even remotely comparable to the struggles of blacks do homosexuals as individuals or couples face today that would require them to acquire a protected status? While it is certainly a terrible thing, these ladies should be able to put their ducks in better order, especially with their associate degrees and whatnot.
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Mar 31, 2013 03:53
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