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Darth Nat posted:If I saw Superman sporting that midlife crisis ponytail, I might put my confidence in the other guy, too. He was going through some stuff, man. Don't even ask about his band.
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Mar 31, 2013 23:57
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That's why I'm disapointed that the Magog title didn't last long. Having him kill a bunch of drug smugglers or something, point out how Superman or The Flash could have cleaned up the whole border within an hour, and that all the superhero community was going to do was send Green Lantern to ask how many people he killed 'this time', really made an otherwise meh character pretty interesting.
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Apr 1, 2013 15:15
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Atmus posted:That's why I'm disapointed that the Magog title didn't last long. Having him kill a bunch of drug smugglers or something, point out how Superman or The Flash could have cleaned up the whole border within an hour, and that all the superhero community was going to do was send Green Lantern to ask how many people he killed 'this time', really made an otherwise meh character pretty interesting. Eh. It's tiresome because it basically relies on status quo shields to exist as a story. When the only reason that either A) Superman doesn't deal with drug problems or B) Green Lantern doesn't throw your rear end in jail is "DC editorial says they can't," that's not a very interesting story.
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Apr 1, 2013 19:24
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. It's tiresome because it basically relies on status quo shields to exist as a story. When the only reason that either A) Superman doesn't deal with drug problems or B) Green Lantern doesn't throw your rear end in jail is "DC editorial says they can't," that's not a very interesting story. Boy do I have a comic for you!
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Apr 1, 2013 19:39
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Adam Strange posted:Boy do I have a comic for you! Can this issue have a long pointless walk in it?
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Apr 1, 2013 19:42
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. It's tiresome because it basically relies on status quo shields to exist as a story. When the only reason that either A) Superman doesn't deal with drug problems or B) Green Lantern doesn't throw your rear end in jail is "DC editorial says they can't," that's not a very interesting story. Actually that's not even the best defense of it, sure if superman dedicated every day to it he could clean up the drug trade but otherwise he's just clearing them out and it's popping back up like what happens in the real world except faster since drug cartels could roll out super strong enforcers and speedster smugglers. The same principal applies to any organized crime in any comic universe, in Marvel they even go out of the way to show that every mob faction has a cadre of superhuman enforcers.
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Apr 1, 2013 19:55
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Thanks thread for causing me to read through Kingdom Come today. Joins Miracleman, Starman, and Blue Beetle as stuff I've read through entirely because of them being mentioned here.
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Apr 1, 2013 21:28
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Monaghan posted:Okay, I haven't be reading injustice although I know about the whole lois thing. But this poo poo just seems stupid. Superman has let people who have done terrible things live and then those guys kill countless people- mongul, darkseid etc. Now, for some reason, he gets bitchy at batman for letting the joker live. Not to mention he's superman and could have killed joker any time. The leadup is that superman did finally snap and kill the joker and has been committed to "fixing" the planet ever since.
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Apr 1, 2013 22:28
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Grant Morrison's first arc of JLA hit on why Superman and the Justice League couldn't "fix" the world.  JLA#4
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Apr 2, 2013 00:07
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Holy poo poo, those  faces.
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Apr 2, 2013 01:24
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"But then... why should they need us at all?" "Hodor."
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Apr 2, 2013 01:51
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It's not what I'd call the best place for the "When does intervention become domination?" line. Just as a heads up feeding people with a garden of Eden doesn't intrude into domination Wonder Woman. When they were killing Doctor Doom and Wolverine? Sure. When they were feeding people? Not really.
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Apr 2, 2013 02:07
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Its not domination, but considering that garden was unsustainable without the bad-guys who were providing it, the garden would create dependence.
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Apr 2, 2013 02:29
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God, I really hated Howard Porter on JLA. He pulled off the sense of scale well, but his designs are just ugly as poo poo
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Apr 2, 2013 09:05
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edit: messed up my post here, but yeah, really didn't like his take on a lot of the characters.
Chinaman7000 fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 10:59
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Tinyn posted:Its not domination, but considering that garden was unsustainable without the bad-guys who were providing it, the garden would create dependence. Any Earth that had a Superman on it shouldn't have anyone dying of hunger.
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Apr 2, 2013 11:06
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Superstring posted:Any Earth that had a Superman on it shouldn't have anyone dying of hunger. We shouldn't have anyone dying of hunger anyway, with or without Superman. We could feed the whole world if we wanted to.
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Apr 2, 2013 13:31
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Superman: Peace on earth is about Superman trying to eradicate famine and world hunger. Long story short, it argues that unless Superman becomes willing to overthrow corrupt leaders and dictators, then solving world hunger isn't an achievable goal, even for . I can link a few pages when i get home if there's interest.
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Apr 2, 2013 15:32
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Lobok posted:We shouldn't have anyone dying of hunger anyway, with or without Superman. We could feed the whole world if we wanted to. Holy poo poo. It's us. We are Lex Luthor.
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Apr 2, 2013 16:26
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Phy posted:Holy poo poo. It's us. We are Lex Luthor. Ultimately selfish beings that believe we are being held back from greatness by an alien other? yep
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Apr 2, 2013 16:37
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Phy posted:Holy poo poo. It's us. We are Lex Luthor. My heart is broken forever.
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Apr 2, 2013 17:35
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McCloud posted:Superman: Peace on earth is about Superman trying to eradicate famine and world hunger. Long story short, it argues that unless Superman becomes willing to overthrow corrupt leaders and dictators, then solving world hunger isn't an achievable goal, even for . I can link a few pages when i get home if there's interest. Please do, because it's really a great treatise on the whole "well why don't superheroes just fix the world with brute force?" problem. Though really, all four books are different perspectives on that theme. And if the answers still seem inadequate, replace "superheroes" with "the US government" or "NATO" or whatever authority and reconsider the scenario.
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Apr 2, 2013 19:26
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McSpanky posted:Please do, because it's really a great treatise on the whole "well why don't superheroes just fix the world with brute force?" problem. Though really, all four books are different perspectives on that theme. Though I'm uneasy continuing this without posting panels of my own, I want to note that Netflix has Superman vs. The Elite on Instant Streaming which ultimately deals with themes of why superheroes don't just punch bad guys away forever. It ended up being a lot better than I expected it to be, and given this seems to be a somewhat recurring theme in Superman comics of late I may have to go hunting for some books.
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Apr 2, 2013 19:55
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McSpanky posted:Holy poo poo, those I personally love Kyle coming in at the end to come fire off some lasers in random directions just to make the JL look cooler. e: Here's a moment with Superman and Lex Luthor duking it out. Superman is depowered because he just flew through a ship made of kryptonite. There's more context, but do you really need it?    Action Comics 840 TwoPair fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 20:39
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Kurt Busiek and Geoff Johns really did bring out the best in each other's writing. I love "Up, Up And Away."
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Apr 2, 2013 21:19
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Superman 652 aka why I am still pissed they got rid of the marriage
bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 21:29
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To continue the Superman kick and since I've been recommending it that last while here's a Lois and Clark bit from Superman Secret Identity #2   
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Apr 2, 2013 22:02
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McSpanky posted:Please do, because it's really a great treatise on the whole "well why don't superheroes just fix the world with brute force?" problem. Though really, all four books are different perspectives on that theme. Alright, you twisted my arm. The story starts out with Superman rescuing a homeless person from almost dying of starvation. Vowing to do something about this, he talks to congress and agrees that instead of letting all that surplus grain and food go to waste, they gather it up and he'll take it to impoverished nations himself. Done and done, they load up the food in giant containers, and he sets of like Santa Clause, only with bagels instead of toys or whatever. The first couple stops go well. People are happy to see him, and he leaves the food and keeps going. But soon, trouble starts.       In the end, Superman has two choices if he wants a better world. He can either lead by example, and hope that one day humanity chooses to follow out of our own free will, or he can force us by becoming a benevolent (and probably violent) dictator. It's the "Catch them if they fall" vs the "put the whole world in a bottle" approach.
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Apr 2, 2013 23:28
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It bothers me that no comic I have heard of has come up with any compromise between superhumans essentially sitting around wringing their hands and doing nothing to change status quo anywhere - or the Garth Ennis type cautionary tales of Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Is there such a thing as a comic where charismatic, famous superheroes, like, run for office and try (and sometimes succeed!) to do good things?
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Apr 3, 2013 00:41
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That comic was called Ex Machina. It was pretty good.
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Apr 3, 2013 00:43
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Benito Cereno posted:That comic was called Ex Machina. It was pretty good. I always got the feeling (Ex Machina end spoilers) that Hundred wasn't really doing "good" and was instead trying to take over the country so he could do something menacing later
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Apr 3, 2013 01:14
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Len posted:I always got the feeling (Ex Machina end spoilers) that Hundred wasn't really doing "good" and was instead trying to take over the country so he could do something menacing later Where on Earth did you get that idea?
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Apr 3, 2013 01:54
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Flesh Forge posted:Is there such a thing as a comic where charismatic, famous superheroes, like, run for office and try (and sometimes succeed!) to do good things? Oliver Queen (a.k.a Green Arrow) was the mayor of his city for a while. I don't think anyone knew his identity at the time. I also never read that run, so I don't know how good of a mayor Ollie was.
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Apr 3, 2013 02:37
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Rhyno posted:Where on Earth did you get that idea? I dunno. Just something about how everything tied together in the end made me think Hundred may have been playing everyone all along
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Apr 3, 2013 02:56
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Len posted:I dunno. Just something about how everything tied together in the end made me think Hundred may have been playing everyone all along I loved Ex Machina up until the final issue, which left me with a sick, sour taste in my mouth. I think Hundred entered politics with the best possible intentions, just as he started his short-lived Great Machine career wanting to truly make a difference and inspire people. And it worked as Mayor of New York -- he was a big fish in a relatively small pond. But to truly ascend to the office of Vice-President (not even President, but largely a ceremonial position one could argue has minimal real power for spearheading positive change), he had to sacrifice a lot of his noble and lofty ideals along the way and play ball with the REAL powers that be. You can't rise that high without losing a bit of who you are and compromising your original, purely altruistic goals. If you've ever watched The Wire, Carcetti's story in Seasons 3-5 is a more realistic mirror of where we left Hundred at the end of Ex Machina. Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Apr 3, 2013 |
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Apr 3, 2013 03:23
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It's been a while since I've read Ex Machina all the way through, but I wonder whether the ending isn't quite as out of the blue as some think; many of Hundred's solutions to political dilemmas basically amount to "no, both sides are wrong, here's my way of doing it", and I wonder whether that isn't a slam on "middle way" or "triangulation" politics -- in the end, that line of thinking causes one to lose sight of their original ideals. Kremlin may be passionate to the point of "extremism," and Vaughan could also be cautioning against going too far in that direction, but Kremlin still has a point. However, Vaughan never really explores the consequences of Hundred's political actions, so I can't really say this is anything more than idle speculation.
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Apr 3, 2013 03:44
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McCloud posted:Alright, you twisted my arm. "The rocks shatter against me or bounce harmlessly off. Every one hurts." Goddamned if that's not the perfect line to sum up that entire story.
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Apr 3, 2013 06:37
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McSpanky posted:Please do, because it's really a great treatise on the whole "well why don't superheroes just fix the world with brute force?" problem. Though really, all four books are different perspectives on that theme. The big difference is that superheroes are selfless by design, so reasons must be contrived for why they can't fix everything, whereas the depressing reason governments and other bodies of power don't fix things is generally that they benefit from whatever injustice is at hand or, if we're being extremely charitable, they would anger certain volatile elements by intervening. What I'm getting at is Superman's reasons for not fixing everything are complex and based in idealism and philosophy, while the US government does things like prop up the Khmer Rouge to win a dick waving contest with the USSR. Real fascism doesn't arise from a desire to help everyone or fix everything, and we are sadly more Lex than Clark.
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Apr 3, 2013 06:44
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:I loved Ex Machina up until the final issue, which left me with a sick, sour taste in my mouth. I'd argue that it was the right ending for that story. Every plot point from Hundred's possible repressed homosexuality to the whole "is he being manipulated by the other dimension or is his conquering nature guiding him", questions that have been constantly in the background even if vaguely, they get the spotlight at the end and, while they are not outright answered, they are given a conclusion that do not undermine the story -- because it leaves you to decide what in the end it all meant. Was Hundred always trying to do the right thing? Or merely pretending to do so? Did he lose himself in the end? Will he try to do good from within the system? Or is it just the start of a power grab for something more sinister? The ending of Ex-Machina is even more powerful when compared to those panels of Superman trying to feed the world. In the end, Superman is faced with a choice and so was Hundred. It is up to you to decide if both of those choices were right or wrong and how they will affect your life.
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Apr 3, 2013 12:46
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Glory 34 
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Apr 3, 2013 16:45
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