Grimby posted:The original MMO fans are aging. The people who can afford to buy most MMOs on release aren't the kids in high school and college who have time to play. It's the people who work full-time, possibly have a family and other responsibilities. They don't have the time to play MMOs like they used to, they don't want to stand around spamming LFG or running for 90 minutes across the game world to get somewhere. I'm sure we'll keep seeing niche hardcore MMOs popping up here and there, but it's the casuals who bring in the cash. The people who take a year to get to max level yet keep paying that monthly sub are the golden egg. To take it even further, if you stick with a sub model the people you get the most money for development time from are casuals, since they don't devour content in three days and then bitch about it for the next few months on forums. If you do a F2P or B2P, the people who want cool cosmetics and reduced grind and can afford to give you money for them, many of whom are when you would dub casuals, are going to give you the most money for development time of any other customer. I really don't see how catering to a minority that do nothing but play MMOs is going to make you more money. 40+ hours a week playing an MMO means they're either students, which means they have no money, or they have part time jobs, which means they don't have a whole lot to throw around. This isn't a group of people to pin your MMO on. Snatch Duster posted:Yo devs, give me a beta invite. Give us all beta invites. Look at how we just went  over this stuff, wouldn't you want us to playtest your game too?
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Apr 11, 2013 21:05
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Bauxite posted:40+ hours a week playing an MMO means they're either students, which means they have no money, or they have part time jobs, which means they don't have a whole lot to throw around. Or someone that won the lottery and plays video games all day and has tons of cash. The Goon Dream.
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Apr 11, 2013 21:07
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BadLlama posted:Or someone that won the lottery and plays video games all day and has tons of cash. The Goon Dream. I just had this dream D=
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Apr 11, 2013 21:15
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BadLlama posted:Or someone that won the lottery and plays video games all day and has tons of cash. The Goon Dream. I don't know if I was unemployed if I could devote that much time to gaming. 40 hours a week seems a bit much for MMO's to me. I used to be "hardcore" back when I was in highschool and I devoted a poo poo load of hours to FFXI. But now that I am real person with a real peoples job and a wife, I don't have that kind of time. I get the sentiment with the "hardcore" feel, I mean I played FFXI for years back when it wasn't solo friendly and you HAD to have a party to kill small woodland creatures. I just don't think its viable and its now become a niche market. It's the same reason why most movies that should be Rated R, that is would be MUCH better as Rated R, are rated PG-13. It's all about the money coming in and how many people you can hook into the product. EDIT: There are some people going for the hardcore market. There is a game in development call The Repopulation. Kinda crappy graphics, but check it out if you are interested. I know my other hardcore friends are squirming about it because it looks like the old star wars galaxies, whatever that means. Bardlebee fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 21:17
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My only other real MMO experience is with City of Heroes, AKA King of the Casuals. Seriously, we had Super Sidekicking that would set the entire team to -1 level of the leader. That along with travel powers at level 6, easy teaming, easy soloing, quick raids, it was a casual player's paradise. I'm really hoping NCsoft will pass some of the good stuff from CoH off to Wildstar.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:05
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Archonex posted:I sure as poo poo would not want to be dismounted while in on a flying mount. You could do so much with it, it's a shame everyone's locked into WoW did it this way so everyone has to do the same and the baggage that comes with it. Make dismounting while flying a mechanic. Like an escape pod you have to land with limited controls. Give characters an emergency jetpack with limited time or fuel. Hell, mandatory parachutes you can wiggle around to get a better landing spot. I hope the devs keep an open mind. Sticking with the trinity and ! questing when there's already been good examples on how to do it better isn't the best sign.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:33
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There's still hopeTeam Wildstar posted:Relax our many friends! We're sending invites regularly over the next few weeks. If you don't get one now, don't fret! There are more! Lots!
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Apr 11, 2013 23:12
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grrarg posted:They also posted that they used that newsletter survey to pick initial testers. I got that pre-beta survey when the newsletters were sent out a couple months ago, but the link didn't work at all for me. I was going to look up info on it but then got distracted and completely forgot until I saw somebody mention it on another forum. I know it isn't likely that I would have even gotten a shot at a key even if I did fill in the survey, but the little voice in my head keeps taunting me about it.  I've never been lucky in this stuff anyway, so I'll probably have to wait for a pre-order to come out months down the line.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:31
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grrarg posted:There's still hope I only filled that thing out two weeks ago 
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Apr 11, 2013 23:38
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Oh crap there was some sort of newsletter survey?
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Apr 12, 2013 00:28
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Bauxite posted:Give us all beta invites. Look at how we just went e: And I never received the newsletter survey. 
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Apr 12, 2013 00:42
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I never got the newsletter either. I got one in 2011 then stopped receiving them. That said, I filled out the survey when someone sent me the link a few weeks ago. I hope that was enough to get me in one of the early waves. This is the most promising game coming out in the near future.
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Apr 12, 2013 00:53
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We should make an irc channel for this so we have a place to slack more.
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Apr 12, 2013 02:08
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Draynar posted:We should make an irc channel for this so we have a place to slack more. I guess we can sit in #wildstar on SynIRC. I'm in there alone so it made me an op, someone who wants to  and register the channel or whatever should come on in.
eonwe fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 02:10
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I'm so on-board with this game whenever it (or the beta) hits! 
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Apr 12, 2013 05:56
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Ghostpilot posted:I'm so on-board with this game whenever it (or the beta) hits! Please tell me how to play this game just like you did with GW2 engineer thanks.
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Apr 12, 2013 12:11
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So far my only concerns are with the raiding system. They mentioned it is meant only for hardcore players, but it will not have a story so casuals don't feel like they are missing out. I'm curious how that will work out, especially since the combat doesn't seem to shine so far.
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Apr 12, 2013 13:37
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Merope posted:So far my only concerns are with the raiding system. They mentioned it is meant only for hardcore players, but it will not have a story so casuals don't feel like they are missing out. I'm curious how that will work out, especially since the combat doesn't seem to shine so far. Yeah, the raiding system has been my one concern about this game, too. For me it's moreover the fact that they're designing exclusive 40-man content, which seems like a HORRIBLE IDEA to me. A lot of people's computers can't even handle 25-man raiding in WoW, let alone 40 people in a next-gen MMO. Plus, 40-man raiding is just a complete clusterfuck to organize, and feels really anonymous and lifeless compared to 10/20-man (25 pushes it sometimes) raiding. I really do like the fact that they are actually focusing on raiding, since it's pretty much my favorite part of MMOs, and most recent games have pretty much ignored it, but I just hope they stop nostalgia-pandering and make a 40/20-man toggle sooner rather than later. But yeah, this game looks really loving good, and most of the design decisions seem right on target. (Actually designing around double jump and active dodging ) Also, since I don't think I've seen it in the thread, here's an article they did on raids: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
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Apr 12, 2013 16:15
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I'm glad they said they are trying to keep raiding outside the story for those of us who like to bullshit around the world playing with paths and tending to the garden outside your house. A very kickback feel to it all, though I'm still wary of the telegraph combat system, if I can't be constantly running around in circles as I fight like in GW2 it's going to feel weird. As long it isn't as grounded as TERA though then I can deal.
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Apr 12, 2013 16:27
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That article does say they will have both 20 and 40 man raids. Hmm, it also says they will probably make some raids easier when new ones are introduced, so I guess there may be a way for non-hardcore players to raid as well.
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Apr 12, 2013 16:28
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I don't meant to be all  those casuals should minmax their own build, and spend half an hour walking everywhere like in the good old days. But any kind of quality of life improvement will be immediately appropriated to minimise effort, whether that means flying everywhere and ignoring the world or leaving the group because the healer only just hit the level cap. And you can get some really ridiculous poo poo when the devs go along with it and don't try to resolve the problem, like Eve's capital ship pilots who basically require a second account to set up jump beacons for the main. I don't think most players really know what they want from a game and quickly latch on to 'faster/easier = better', even if that they just spent an hour playing a game with four other people and somehow managed to avoid talking to them.I'm not trying to turn things around as say 'so it's the players' fault reaaaallyyy', just that developers should take this stuff into account, as Blizzard consistently failed to do with flying mounts. I mean, you're flying a drat dragon (or Wildstar space dragon), that should be something genuinely awesome. But it seems like developers often have this idealised version of how their players will actually act and so they don't build the game to stand up to minmaxing being the norm and people exploiting every little hole.
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Apr 12, 2013 17:06
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Desync posted:But yeah, this game looks really loving good, and most of the design decisions seem right on target. (Actually designing around double jump and active dodging that article posted:Dungeon layouts, encounter composition, individual abilities, inherently random events, progression paths within an instance…we've really tried to push the number of ways to keep things fresh as much as possible. Our class system also allows us to create encounters with a very different raid composition required to face it without crippling the raids--our players will be able to modify their roles and abilities quickly and easily while not in combat, giving each encounter the freedom to be different from each other.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:04
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grrarg posted:I'm a bit wary of the 20/40 person thing. The logistical and organizational requirements necessary for 40 mans is a recipe for burntout leaders and officers. I'd rather they stick to one size instead of trying to tune for 20 and 40. Well gw2 did have different paths. Issue with GW2 is without trinity what are you even "changing" your spec too.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:39
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I'm apprehensive of them saying you can switch between roles easily. In reality role/spec is only half the problem if the gear itself also supports the trinity. This was clear in TOR where each class technically could do 2 roles (dmg+something else). You couldn't switch to 2 more tanks in a raid because the classes with the alt spec didn't have enough +DEF gear or whatever. I love the idea of adaptation i just hope they think it all the way through.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:49
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Fat Aggression posted:I'm apprehensive of them saying you can switch between roles easily. In reality role/spec is only half the problem if the gear itself also supports the trinity. This was clear in TOR where each class technically could do 2 roles (dmg+something else). You couldn't switch to 2 more tanks in a raid because the classes with the alt spec didn't have enough +DEF gear or whatever. I love the idea of adaptation i just hope they think it all the way through. I think Rift did a good job at handling this. For example, switching from a healing to DPS cleric was easy to go back and forth from because they used the same stats. I didn't play the expansion, but that was my experience from it.
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Apr 12, 2013 20:07
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Doh004 posted:I think Rift did a good job at handling this. For example, switching from a healing to DPS cleric was easy to go back and forth from because they used the same stats. I didn't play the expansion, but that was my experience from it. I recall this the first few months of the game I played, it was great since I only really needed a second set of armor for my rogue to tank the harder dungeons. The problem with GW2 though was that if you wanted to play a different spec (condition damage vs direct damage) you needed different gear with multiple different stats so gearing up became a chore in the end if they ended up having to rebalance a build heavily.
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Apr 12, 2013 20:40
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Bird Law posted:My only other real MMO experience is with City of Heroes, AKA King of the Casuals. Seriously, we had Super Sidekicking that would set the entire team to -1 level of the leader. That along with travel powers at level 6, easy teaming, easy soloing, quick raids, it was a casual player's paradise. I'm really hoping NCsoft will pass some of the good stuff from CoH off to Wildstar. Chiming in here. The quality of life conveniences of CoH/V made me love it more, not less. I stayed subbed to that game even when I went months without playing it in part because I knew I could get back in at any time, quickly find new stuff to check out and mess around with, and enjoy myself. Meanwhile most other MMOs (vanilla/BC wow, FFXI, Conan, SWG, TOR) feel like punishing Russian novels that I give up on, leaving a bookmark in them, discouragingly close to the front of the book, only to come back later, crack them open hoping I'll have what it takes to get to the cool stuff people always talk about this time, only to get half a paragraph in and be all... 'wtf... who is this guy visiting these people? Why is the author describing the dishevelment and soul destroying unremarkable poverty of their lives at such length? Oh god, why is there a description of how he felt during childhood about it? Who are any of these people? Why am I reading this?' ... Yeah. World of Warcraft feels like a giant Russian novel I will never finish. Because I feel like I've been reading it for years and getting no closer to understanding the plot. Or something. All flying mounts from level 1. 500% speed.
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Apr 12, 2013 21:02
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I signed up for the beta at their PAX East booth and didn't get an invite yet! When I signed up for the Firefall beta at their booth last year I got one on the spot! GG Blizz.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:18
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Overbite posted:I signed up for the beta at their PAX East booth and didn't get an invite yet! When I signed up for the Firefall beta at their booth last year I got one on the spot! GG Blizz. Check the newsletters they send if you opted in. Right now they're pulling people based on system specs and they get those from a survey in the newsletter. They said they'll be sending another soon.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:25
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Overbite posted:GG Blizz. This is probably why you won't get invited.
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Apr 13, 2013 01:00
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Phoix posted:Check the newsletters they send if you opted in. Right now they're pulling people based on system specs and they get those from a survey in the newsletter. They said they'll be sending another soon. They never sent me one of those 
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Apr 13, 2013 01:11
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AlmightyBob posted:They never sent me one of those Same, signed up way back in '11 too 
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Apr 13, 2013 03:50
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Aureon posted:well, NCsoft also published GW2, which is the less grindy mmo in the history of the genre hahahaha take it you don't have a level 80?
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Apr 13, 2013 05:11
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Desync posted:Yeah, the raiding system has been my one concern about this game, too. For me it's moreover the fact that they're designing exclusive 40-man content, which seems like a HORRIBLE IDEA to me. A lot of people's computers can't even handle 25-man raiding in WoW, let alone 40 people in a next-gen MMO. Plus, 40-man raiding is just a complete clusterfuck to organize, and feels really anonymous and lifeless compared to 10/20-man (25 pushes it sometimes) raiding. I really do like the fact that they are actually focusing on raiding, since it's pretty much my favorite part of MMOs, and most recent games have pretty much ignored it, but I just hope they stop nostalgia-pandering and make a 40/20-man toggle sooner rather than later. I kind of thought it was funny that blizzard didn't capitalize on the raid finder by making a 40 man option. 40 man raiding used to be a giant clusterfuck anyway, so if you just let 40 people queue up and mob a raid under, you wouldn't have to retune the dungeon or what have you and just make the gear drops different. This is assuming that the Wildstar devs put in a raid finder too, which I'm not sure of at all, but I could see them doing something like that, or even just make 40 man raiding basically a different thing where you even do a quest to get to a point where a captain in the army of your faction offers to let you join a big raiding party and mob a dungeon under with them. It would be a great way to let everyone do 40 man content, not have raid leaders and guild leaders burn out on it, and make it a fun thing you can do instead of a massive slog for everyone involved. Just make sure you can steal the big bad's awesome dresser/desk/lamp for your house. The one with horns and skulls and stuff on it.
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Apr 13, 2013 05:16
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Phoix posted:There are Wildstar devs reading the thread so I doubt they'd be able to break NDA for very long. Oh wildstar devs, I looooooove you.
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Apr 13, 2013 11:24
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Bauxite posted:This is assuming that the Wildstar devs put in a raid finder too I'm fairly certain they've said there won't be a raid finder option. They want raiding to be for the hardcore 1%. I'm also pretty sure that there won't be heroic raiding, and that 20man and 40man will be different dungeons. Basically it's going to be vanilla/tbc raiding style but actually challenging and with updated class systems and mechanics so you won't have dumb things like "bring as many shamans as you possibly can". edit: Is it okay to discuss leaks in this thread? Pawl fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 21:31
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Pawl posted:I'm fairly certain they've said there won't be a raid finder option. They want raiding to be for the hardcore 1%. I saw that too somewhere in one of Carbine's weekly updates, which says there's a dungeon finder (cross-server and only-your-server options available), but no raid finder. quote:I'm also pretty sure that there won't be heroic raiding, and that 20man and 40man will be different dungeons. Yeah, that's true, at least according to various articles. Here's the relevant copy-paste, from the Wildstar Central forums: Q: Will there be raids? If yes, how big will they be? A: Raids are most definitely in, and will come in both 20- and 40-man sizes. Each raid is designed for a single size - a 20-man raid will be a completely different map and have other content than a 40-man. Retuned raids, begone! Q: I don’t really like raiding - will there still be things for me to do at level cap? A: Absolutely! Regular content updates (which are planned to happen every month) will provide new story quests tailored towards solo players. If you’re the dungeoneering type, 5-man dungeons will have two modes: regular (which you do while leveling) and expert (unlocked at cap). Edit: If anyone's interested, the FAQ can be read here: http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?threads/the-wildstar-faq-or-how-i-learned-to-look-before-asking-updated-march-12-2013.73/ Midrena fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 22:37
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Looks like 40-man raiding isn't necessary and is only for the groups who can manage to herd 40 cats at once, which I think is just fine.
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Apr 13, 2013 22:50
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Yeah that's not bad. I don't remember reading that so assumed it was going to be 20 and 40 re-tuned versions of the same fight. Guess I should read that FAQ again since so much new info has come out since PAX East.
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Apr 13, 2013 23:41
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#wildstar is now reged on synirc thanks to me and Nic Yay new video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeUbXJZPkd0 Draynar fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 06:55
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