|
Cecile is actually a pretty good character. She starts with terrible equipment and her skills take forever to upgrade but she can get an A+ in damage & shield defense. Her only drawback is that she doesn't get an open rune slot so she can't use the firefly rune which reduces her tanking effectiveness.
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2013 07:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 00:32 |
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I meant more in terms of how they're used throughout the series. Like, narccisists tend to be one star, elevator repair men are always the same star, that sort of thing. The Tenki star, "Star of Wisdom", is always your strategist. So yeah, there are pretty strong links with certain stars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2013 07:46
|
|
|
I can't quite recall, but I think there were a couple of growth types that weren't mentioned back in the update that originally touched upon skill growths. The first is a "Hidden Potential" thing, primarily (or exclusively, I can't recall) shared amongst the younger characters. It takes a massive amount of skill points to raise, but it'll go all the way to A+ if you stick with it(and, if memory serves, the differences between A/A+/S are pretty large). Not as good as the S rankers, but they can be pretty capable if you raise them. The second... I have vague memories of some skills starting out fast, like the S ranks, only to burn out horribly in the C~B range; I may well be misremembering this one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's all right. I do specifically recall that some characters have very slow growth in a few skills, and skill trainers will even tell you to give up because you are just the worst, but they eventually top out at a natural S rank.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2013 21:58
|
|
|
Suikoden characters don't often start at level 1, do they? My memory's saying they don't, but I may be misremembering.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2013 19:07
|
|
|
Glazius posted:Suikoden characters don't often start at level 1, do they? My memory's saying they don't, but I may be misremembering. They don't in this game. I think Thomas starting at level 1 means that he's had pretty much zero combat experience. Chris, by comparison, was in her twenties.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2013 19:18
|
|
|
I don't remember anyone aside from Thomas and Cecile starting off at level 1. Thank god. Not sure about the other games, though. Update coming up a little later today/tonight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2013 22:28
|
|
|
Thomas Chapter 1.2 - Dropping Eaves  Hoo boy. Are you ready to go cut through the Grasslands to get to Brass Castle?  The Yaza Plains haven't changed geographically since last time we were here, of course, but you better believe it got a re-haul in what enemies we'll face. If I had to fight boars and dragons with Thomas right now I think I would kill myself.  First up, we have Holly Shrubs. Remember when these were a joke? Those were good times.  Actually, they're still sort of a joke. 13 damage, while pitiful, is enough to kill them. Thomas wasn't lying when he said he wasn't good at this last time.  Oh yeah, this is intense. Cecile has an insane amount of defense. They'd do more to Thomas if they ever decided to attack him, but at this point I'd rather not have to risk something like that.  Cecile can also kill things much more efficiently than Thomas. So Holly Shrubs continue to be no big deal. However.  These things? These are Killer Bees and I am not lying when I say they are terrifying to face right now.  Yeah, okay, 7 doesn't seem like a lot.  When you've only got 16 HP, though? Three hits will put Thomas down. And they all like to go for him. Because flying enemies ignore formations, remember?  Cecile becomes berserk when he goes down, though, so she can avenge him pretty well. They'll also only hit her for 1 damage.  Thomas also has some accuracy problems. Really, Cecile is a great boon for this section of the game, and this would be impossible without her. There are a few things we can do to make this section easier on us, though. First, we've got Cecile's War Horse Rune.  The War Horse Rune is unique to Cecile -- there's no other one in the series. She starts in the usual way, with a glow on her weapon.   She then charges up and performs a spin attack.  It is actually an AoE Rune, and will hit anything within a certain range of the target. Like all AoE spells in the game, though, you can get pretty unlucky with it if the target moves away from everything else. Which happens far too frequently for my tastes. It will only do .7x damage, though, so the output isn't that great. It will also leave her unbalanced for a turn. I probably won't be using it too often.  We can also use their combo attack, Best Effort. Trust me when I say that this will probably see the most use of all unites in the game.  It starts off with the two of them glowing green.  They then rush the foe.  And start smacking them.  It does a lot of damage, and is something you definitely want to use on strong enemies that could threaten Thomas. Even knocking down the number of Killer Bees from three to two means he'll be able to survive more than a turn. There is actually an alternate version of the Best Effort unite. As far as I can tell, which one it uses is random, though it is more likely to use the normal one.  In the alternate version, Thomas's sword gets stuck in the ground.  Upon wrestling it free, he falls on his back, but the swing pretty much doubles the damage.  It's not very graceful, but if you manage to see it happen, you're very lucky. It's also funny because it looks like he's wigging out. I had no idea what was going on the first time it happened. These caps are from a bit later in the run, so imagine it doing slightly less damage. Also, we can't find this enemy quite yet. Otherwise, this is what the alt looks like.  Near-death experiences aside, we make our way to Brass Castle to drop off the letter.    Thomas, being from the boonies, is predictably impressed.  : "It sure is."  : "This one looks like a real castle should." : "I think our castle's wonderful too. We're all working hard to protect it, you know.": "Oh, uh, right. Say, do you know where I'm supposed to take this letter?" Thomas, you really upset her.  Say something nice.: "Figure it out? Haven't you ever been here before?"That's not what I meant.  Well, she seems to have brightened a bit, so... good work Thomas?  : "Oh... I see." The two head further in. Or start to, anyway.  Thomas, watch where you're--   : "Uh, no... My apologies..." Leo has a double-take when he sees Cecile in full armor like she is.  : "I am Cecile, commander of the castle guards of Budehuc Castle. We are here to submit a letter with respect to the succession of a new castle master." : "Bude... huc? Never heard of it. Well, if you have a letter, I suppose you should hand it to Salome." : "My name? It's Leo.": "What?! You mean, Leo, as in Leo of the Six Mighty Knights? Wow. This is incredible. Ooh! Stay calm, stay calm!" : "Now you're embarrassing me. Well, I've got to rush off. Excuse me." Leo ditches us. : "Is he famous?": "Yes. Of course. There's no one in Zexen who doesn't now the Six Knights: Chris, Salome, Leo, Roland, Borus and Percival. Wow, that was incredible. I'd only heard of his name before. I'm so glad I came.""  ": "I see..."One down, five to go. Wonder if we'll see them all.  We don't get to take even two steps, however, before stumbling upon a second one.  Thomas bows a bit as a greeting. : "Umm, we'd like to see Sir Salome, please." I'd call him out for being a jerk, but I'll actually let this one slide. Given that they're all about to go back into war with the Grassland, I can see why they'd all be busy and stressed out. : "Deployment? Is there going to be a war?" : "Yes, with Grassland. The treaty's been scrapped, thanks to a surprise attack by the Lizard Clan." : "I must run along myself. Excuse me."Roland walks away. He was actually quite civil, I'm pleasantly surprised. : "A war with Grassland, huh?" Hmm. Well, let's track down another couple of knights!  That wasn't hard. These two are hanging out in the weaponry.  : "That's a new one! Fearless, reckless Borus -- the man who doesn't even know the word 'consequence' -- is troubled?"It's a harmless jape, but the joke falls flat. Borus isn't in the mood.   Percival hesitates, and looks about the room for any eavesdroppers, before dropping the act and getting serious.  : "Don't tell me you're..."Borus cuts him off before he finishes the sentence with a harsh stare, but takes a few moments before speaking up.  He trails off and turns to the wall behind him. : "Spit it out, man." : "I think I would've done the same thing if I'd heard about the Lizard Clan's surprise attack and Myriam and Lanchet's deaths."   : "..."    : "Too bad we can't hear what they're saying." : "Mind telling me what you're doing here?" : "Uh, I--ah...": "No harm meant." The two scramble out in a hurry.  Nothing else interesting downstairs, so let's head up and give our letter to Salome already.  Oops, never mind.  : "We have to figure out a way to recover the injured." : "Our last battle seems like yesterday."   There's some motion-blur as she passes.  "  " Louis hesitates to look over at Thomas and Cecile for a moment...  Before jogging to catch up. : "T-That woman... She's beautiful. And a knight, even. It's incredible.""  ": "She's Chris, right?": "What?! You know her?" : "Oh, no, no. I just saw her lead a parade once in Vinay del Zexay.": "Lady Chris is incredible! They say that she can charge into battle, defeat the enemy, and get out without any blood on her. All without even breaking a sweat. I adore her.": "Come to think of it, I think I've heard people call her the 'Silver Maiden.' Sounds like quite the lady." Well, there's only one knight left to meet in this place, so let's go say hello.  And there he is, pacing by the window. : "Could you help me? I'm looking for a man named Salome." He walks over pretty briskly.   : "I've heard about you. I imagine you have a letter for the knights, correct?": "How do you know about me?" : "Sure. Sure. It's right here.": "Thank you." We hand the letter over to him. : "No, no, thank you! Is there anything else I must do?": "That is all. Uh... Who's your friend here?" Salome takes a few moments to think about this information. : "Did you take up the position when the old commander passed away a few years ago?": "That man was my father.": "So you're Commander Brown's daughter, eh? You can't just take his title; you have to be officially appointed." : "I don't see why, when my father..." Thomas steps between them. : "Why can't I appoint her? I'm recognized as the master of the castle. Don't I have that right?" Salome pauses once again, thinking, before a faint smile appears on his usually-robotic face.  : "In extraordinary circumstances, the master of the castle may be allowed to make the appointment. Very well." : "Whew! that's a relief. I can keep my position then?": "You will be the official commander of the guards and Budehuc Castle. You will receive an appointment letter eventually." : "Well, everything seems to be in order. I must go now and deal with other matters." The scene fades as they leave the room.  : "Everything seems okay. Shall we go back, Cecile?": "Sounds good to me!"As we're leaving, however, another scene plays out.   : "Huh? What is it?"She bows.  : "Oh, uh... no problem. Don't worry about it.": "Now that I've been appointed by you, I'm the real commander of the guards, right? I promise you'll have my best.": "Umm, okay. Thanks. Shall we go now?": "Yes!"Time to head home, then.  We cross the plains to few interruptions, aside from a group of Furrflies.  They're less dangerous than the bees, though, so no biggie.  : "We're back, Budehuc Castle! Home sweet home. Commander of the guard, Cecile, reporting for duty, sir!" : "Yes I am!"   Thomas heads back inside, but is a little surprised not to find Sebastian waiting there like usual.  : "Where could he have gone? Oh, well. I guess I'll just go and get some rest. I believe my room was this way..."  : "Does this mean I'm the true master of the castle now? I hope all is as it should be." He sighs, and the scene fades. Next time, all isn't as it should be! yokaiy fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Apr 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
Man I forgot how adorable Cecile was. She truly is incarnate. yokaiy posted:Roland walks away. He was actually quite civil, I'm pleasantly surprised. Bah, he's an elf. I'm sure the only reason he was being civil was because he was too distracted by the battle preparations to be his normal dickish self.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 04:30
|
|
|
Strayed posted:Bah, he's an elf. I'm sure the only reason he was being civil was because he was too distracted by the battle preparations to be his normal dickish self. "I get to kill inferior races! GLEE! .....Get out of my face while I am still happy, kid. Salome's upstairs."
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 05:16
|
|
|
Raitzeno posted:"I get to kill inferior races! GLEE! .....Get out of my face while I am still happy, kid. Salome's upstairs." Heh. There's the Roland we know and love(????).
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 05:30
|
|
|
Raitzeno posted:"I get to kill inferior races! GLEE! .....Get out of my face while I am still happy, kid. Salome's upstairs."  FILTHY SUBHUMAN DEVILS!!!Or would that work better with Gizel? Also, Cecile's cute as a button. III really did have some fantastic characters! ...IV, not so much. 
Verant fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Apr 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 05:42
|
|
|
Verant posted:
Godwin is the racist so while it would work better, Egbert is MUCH more hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 05:43
|
|
|
Salome is a pretty chill guy.Verant posted:
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 06:10
|
|
|
cokerpilot posted:Salome is a pretty chill guy. Lino and Elenor are about it, really.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 06:12
|
|
|
Dogdoo 8 posted:Lino and Elenor are about it, really. DARIO
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 06:17
|
|
|
Well, while we're griping about Suikoden IV's character designs, let me just say that I thought it was really lazy for the cat-kobolds to look less like catmen and more like guys wearing lame cat-head mascot costumes. I'll take III's goofy duck-warriors over that any day of the week.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
Speedball posted:Well, while we're griping about Suikoden IV's character designs, let me just say that I thought it was really lazy for the cat-kobolds to look less like catmen and more like guys wearing lame cat-head mascot costumes. I'll take III's goofy duck-warriors over that any day of the week. When I saw the character designs before the game came out I was like,"Yay kitties!" but then they turned out to be terrible. I felt similarly about Renee. She became slightly less interesting when I found that all she could do was treasure hunt and then a bit more when I discovered that there were only a few places way out in the middle of nowhere where the treasure was. I was still okay, but then at the very end of the game she spoke. She had one line and in that line I felt all the disappointment of everything that was Suikoden IV. Also, you're right Raitzeno, Dario was a good character. Also there were a few characters that got all their characterization in Tactics, so that kind of half counts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 06:36
|
|
|
Cecile is a bubbly personality done right, and I think she's half the reason I found most of the "bubbly" airheads in Final Fantasy as annoying as I did. Cecile being so young really helps explain her ways, and she's not being "cute" just for the sake of it, unlike Selphie or Yuffie. It really is surprising just how likable most of the characters in this game are. Even Guillame manages to be so horrendous that he wraps back around into being this enormous walking cartoon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 12:21
|
|
|
Veyrall posted:Cecile is a bubbly personality done right, and I think she's half the reason I found most of the "bubbly" airheads in Final Fantasy as annoying as I did. Cecile being so young really helps explain her ways, and she's not being "cute" just for the sake of it, unlike Selphie or Yuffie. It really is surprising just how likable most of the characters in this game are. Cecile is quite adorable. She just seems so happy to be able to be taking after her father. And Guillame works to a certain degree because he is mustache twirlingly villainous.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 13:16
|
|
|
Dogdoo 8 posted:Lino and Elenor are about it, really. You're forgetting about Glen. He was a pretty cool guy before the plot caught up with him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 14:13
|
|
|
Lazlo, Lino, Kika, Flare, Ted, Elenor, Dario, Rene, and Glen, for those unfamiliar with IV. At least their best characters were the most plot-important ones. (For the most part.) I like the concept art and character art of the nekobolds a lot better than I like how they look in-game. However, as characters, I rather liked all three of them. (Dammit, I am going to make this LP completely accessible to people new to the series even if I have to link pictures of all 108 stars from every game!) Veyrall posted:Cecile is a bubbly personality done right, and I think she's half the reason I found most of the "bubbly" airheads in Final Fantasy as annoying as I did. Cecile being so young really helps explain her ways, and she's not being "cute" just for the sake of it, unlike Selphie or Yuffie. It really is surprising just how likable most of the characters in this game are. I agree about Cecile being a shining example of where the archetype works. Actually, I find that, for the most part, when III decides to use an archetype, they use it in a way that still makes the character feel unique and well-written. Aside form Cecile, there's another woman coming up in Hugo's next chapter who falls into, but transcends, the "bitch" archetype. And I love her. They really like throwing archetypes and cliches for a loop in this one, though. And that is all right with me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
Speedball posted:Well, while we're griping about Suikoden IV's character designs, let me just say that I thought it was really lazy for the cat-kobolds to look less like catmen and more like guys wearing lame cat-head mascot costumes. I'll take III's goofy duck-warriors over that any day of the week. IV has fantastic character designs, just not enough worthwhile characters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, I never knew about the second version of that unite! Wow.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
I didn't know about it either until the other day. It's only happened to me twice, both during my recording over the weekend. I thought the emulator was freaking out the first time it happened.  e: Wait, when did you change your avatar? I swear it wasn't that when I checked your thread last, and I didn't check that long ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 20:49
|
|
|
I didn't. I don't know who did, but it wasn't me. Imagine my surprise when the thing popped up between two posts. I'm kinda proud, actually. It's the first time someone buys me an avatar, and it doesn't even have red text. I thought I'd have managed to piss someone off at this point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 21:22
|
|
|
yokaiy posted:Aside from Cecile, there's another woman coming up in Hugo's next chapter who falls into, but transcends, the "bitch" archetype. And I love her. They really like throwing archetypes and cliches for a loop in this one, though. And that is all right with me. That character is terrible. Hugo does get some cool people exclusive to his chapters, but she isn't one of 'em.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 21:38
|
|
|
FairGame posted:That character is terrible. Hugo does get some cool people exclusive to his chapters, but she isn't one of 'em. Bad opinions detected!  She is the greatest because of how terrible she is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 23:47
|
|
|
FairGame posted:That character is terrible. Hugo does get some cool people exclusive to his chapters, but she isn't one of 'em. I disagree, she's awesome because of how much of a spoilt, egomaniacal bitch she is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2013 23:58
|
|
|
FairGame posted:That character is terrible. Hugo does get some cool people exclusive to his chapters, but she isn't one of 'em. In that case I think you may enjoy how she is introduced in the manga. Yokaiy, does that count as a spoiler? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 01:03
|
|
|
vilkacis posted:I didn't. I don't know who did, but it wasn't me. Imagine my surprise when the thing popped up between two posts. Heh. I am greatly entertained imagining how disorienting that must have been for about 10 seconds. Sorta wish they'd given you some text as well, though. Good luck pissing off more people in the future, though!  people posted:Stuff about a lady. I'm actually pretty fond of her. She's a bit irritating sometimes, but I think she's handled really well overall. I'll have words about her and her character design, when the time comes. Zosephine posted:In that case I think you may enjoy how she is introduced in the manga. Yokaiy, does that count as a spoiler? I'd prefer it to wait until after we've met her in the game. On the subject of manga, however, do you guys think it would be  to post pages from the manga? I figured I'd ask around before I started scanning my books.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 01:57
|
|
|
Tokyo Pop is pretty much defunct and you can only get copies from the independent Amazon stores. The prices vary on the books, they were way high when I got some of them, but the ones I got to finish out my collection were about $7-10 with shipping. They're...available but they're not particularly easy to get and really only 3rd party sources are making any sort of profit. There were some things that I thought the game did better than the manga, but the game has some really horrible pacing issues/running through the same five areas over and over again. I think it'd be interesting to compare them side by side.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 02:10
|
|
|
It would be interesting to scan a sample of pages to show how some things went differently in the manga. I've recently purchased and read through the first four volumes and the pacing is faster (to its detriment) but it also executes some things differently. I've pretty much paid 20 or 30 bucks all up for the first four volumes after buying them off of ebay so, if you know where to buy them from, they're not really that expensive.
Testekill fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 02:21
|
|
|
Yeah. I think it counts as being out of print and so might not be a problem? But I'd rather play it safe than get probated or banned for it. I happen to own them all, and liked the idea of showing off certain parts of the story in manga-form. The scene where Geddoe & co run into Duke's unit is a lot of fun in the manga, for example, because half the cast is drunk off their asses. I think I'll wait and see if anyone else can answer me definitely on whether or not it's okay, though. The pacing in the manga is way too fast, at least at first. It was planned to only be about 7 books, you see, so it has a rushed start so it could get off the ground. It ended up being 11. It's always much quicker than the games, but once it slows down enough to catch it's breath it improves a lot. The game tends to take things sorta slowly, as well, so you can see how things happen from multiple views and such, which the manga doesn't have to really deal with. Some things I like how the manga handled better than the game, and others I like the game version better, which is another reason I really want to show off some parts. I also have a soft spot for the manga because that was my first encounter with the Suikoden franchise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 02:47
|
|
|
Send Slowbeef a PM or email, he'd be able to answer your question on whether it's kosher or not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 05:33
|
|
|
Generally I think the manga was at its weakest when it was tweaking the existing story. A couple of the noticable changes were interesting, but usually it seemed like they were changing things to be more... standard, shall we say. The parts where it abridged or expanded on (yeah it actually did both, it was weird) the story were almost always for the better though, and the points where they added new scenes that were implied but skipped over in the game lead universally to awesome. There's a bit with Salome that justified the entire purchase cost of the series for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2013 07:38
|
|
|
CmdrKing posted:Generally I think the manga was at its weakest when it was tweaking the existing story. A couple of the noticable changes were interesting, but usually it seemed like they were changing things to be more... standard, shall we say. I think I like the parts with Chris the least. The bit with Salome was amazing. There's a piece about Fubar at the beginning of the first volume that I enjoyed and the reaction to the burning of Karaya village/Lulu's death is different. Sgt. Joe is even more awesome and smokes cigars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2013 07:29
|
|
|
I like Chris a lot in theory, but in practice she is kind of dull.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2013 11:10
|
|
|
One thing I don't really like about the manga is a very reserved use of Runes. Like, only True Runes. Characters start flipping out like "WHAT SORCERY IS THIS???" in the manga, while in the games it's very much an integral part of daily life, and people only freak out when there's a plot nuke involved. It's just kind of awkward and I don't see the point in changing it like that. Serious Frolicking posted:I like Chris a lot in theory, but in practice she is kind of dull. For the most part, I agree. Chris is a fantastic character, but she is the victim of her own story. While being as vague as possible, there's an unhealthy amount of politics and slogging for a large part of her chapters, which is fascinating but kind of boring to play through. At the same time, it's pretty necessary to the story, so I'm not sure how they could have changed it for the better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2013 15:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 00:32 |
|
|
yokaiy posted:
Yeah but she gets The Best Character at the end of...Chapter 2? 3 maybe? I forget. We'll know when s/he arrives.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2013 15:23
|
|