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Stroth posted:It's a bad Discworld book in that it's bad for a Discworld book. it's not actually a bad book itself. Yeah this. While I have favorites (The Fifth Elephant) I have never thought a Discworld book was bad or un-enjoyable.
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Apr 11, 2013 11:10
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I still have no idea what Snuff was about. Or at least, what it was about that wasn't already thoroughly explored in previous Discworld books. I think I said before that the notion of dealing with the Goblins sense of self-worth as the key to emancipation rather than the system or Vimes as a big white hero seemed interesting, but absolutely nothing was done with that.
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Apr 11, 2013 11:19
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All the Discworld books have their merits and every one has SOME good quality to it. Example: Last Continent. Since I know nothing about Australia, the majority of the book fell completely flat and was a boring slog to get through. The Wizards were all right. Moving Pictures is awful; the jokes feel forced, though that may just be 2013 talking versus, what, 1989 when it was being written? Specific media parody has changed since then. Holy Wood is a great parody of a shallow, soulless shell of a city. Pyramids: Great jokes about the assassin's school; the entire book could have been that. The actual pyramid stuff is sort of dreary. And the first books The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, and Sourcery suffer from the early-book writing that tries too hard to parody every fantasy cliche out there. It's actually hard to come up with anything good to say about these, especially as the characterizations and Discworld lore change so drastically later on that they're barely part of the main series. Mort gets a pass because it's probably the best of the firsts. So yeah, even if the later books are poorer in quality, the earlier ones still take the title. They're interesting in a historical, retrospective way, but still pretty bad. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 11:31
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See, I liked Pyramids as a take on a really stagnant civilisation, and I thought it was a pretty great book. I also loved the bit where the dead rise from the pyramids. I still find it chilling to re-read, even though it's kinda lighthearted for what it is.
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Apr 11, 2013 12:34
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AlphaDog posted:See, I liked Pyramids as a take on a really stagnant civilisation, and I thought it was a pretty great book. Does Reaper Man count as an earlier book? (It was the 11 out of 39 iirc) Because this quote quote from said book still makes me, a grown-rear end man all teary eyed. "Death, to Arazel, Death of Universes posted:LORD, WE KNOW THERE IS NO GOOD ORDER EXCEPT THAT WHICH WE CREATE...
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Apr 11, 2013 12:54
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quote:WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? Someone I know had that sentence read at their funeral. Yeah, I cried. A lot.
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Apr 11, 2013 15:24
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The Bill Door side of Reaper Man is IMO some of the best stuff Pratchett's ever done.
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Apr 11, 2013 15:51
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Hipster Occultist posted:LORD, WE KNOW THERE IS NO GOOD ORDER EXCEPT THAT WHICH WE CREATE... 
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Apr 12, 2013 01:49
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The first time I read Reaper Man, I hated it because I didn't get where it was in the chronology of the Death series, so where were the supporting Death characters I knew and what was going on and why does everything feel out of synch. (I think I picked it up after it got a new paperback release in the U.S., so I had the impression it was a newer book.) A while later I read it again and loved it. I still get choked up by a lot of it.
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Apr 12, 2013 02:03
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I really loved Pyramids, yeah the assassin's school is great and it's jarring that the book just goes "And now for something completely different" but I'm generally in favor of any book that doesn't take place in A-M. I don't like how "small" the Disc is feeling when we know from the early-mid books that there's a whole weird world out there. When was the last time anything came of the fact that the Interesting Times land exists? Uberwald is a source of "here is New Creature" but hasn't been visited much and doesn't seem well developed. The place Twoflower is from has just fallen off the disc (literally?) Ephebe, despite being this mecca of free thought and science, never really comes up either. And who wouldn't love a return to post-Brutha Om? The missionary characters we get to see are great. Lancre gets more play than any other place and all it has are a few interesting people. I know Pratchett is really into the whole A-M revolution and packing in the satire on modern culture while the rest of the Disc seems stuck in the past, but still.
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Apr 12, 2013 02:21
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precision posted:I really loved Pyramids, yeah the assassin's school is great and it's jarring that the book just goes "And now for something completely different" but I'm generally in favor of any book that doesn't take place in A-M. I don't like how "small" the Disc is feeling when we know from the early-mid books that there's a whole weird world out there. When was the last time anything came of the fact that the Interesting Times land exists? Uberwald is a source of "here is New Creature" but hasn't been visited much and doesn't seem well developed. The place Twoflower is from has just fallen off the disc (literally?) Ephebe, despite being this mecca of free thought and science, never really comes up either. Pratchett's big interest was always in the city. He's talked a hell of a lot about it. I also don't agree that the rest of the disc is underdeveloped. Twoflower comes from The Agatean Empire, which is also the setting for Interesting Times. Uberwald has a whole book devoted to it (5th Elephant) and is also visited in Carpe Jugulum, as well as being the source of the Igors, Angua's homeland, etc. It's also the setting for The Amazing Maurice. XXXX has been explored, and probably every joke you can make about Australia has been made there. Klatch was the setting for half of Jingo. We got two whole new countries in Monstrous Regiment. The plains around the Circle Sea are fairly fleshed out (Quirm, Pseudopolis, etc), but the purpose of those places is to serve as "kinda far but not really very far foreign countries" that people/things can come from. Ephebe comes up every so often, but usually as "the ephebian philosopher X says..." or "in ancient Ephebe there was this legend that...". The Tiffany books aren't set in AM, although it's mentioned and visited. The Chalk is a pretty interesting place, but clearly it's supposed to be AM's rural surrounds. Edit: Although most of the world seems to now serve as a backdrop for events in Ankh-Morpork, yeah. But that's where most of the well-known characters are. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 03:54
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Next Discworld book should be set in Wyrmberg, just to really gently caress everyone off.
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Apr 13, 2013 12:17
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jfjnpxmy posted:Next Discworld book should be set in Wyrmberg, just to really gently caress everyone off. Since Wyrmberg comes from that era of Discworld were magic was more wild (Pre-Sourcery, I'd call it), it's probably a pile of boring rocks now. But I would like to see Hrun and Kring again. Hell, a Pratchett-esque pastiche of the Conan stories would be fun. It could star some wannabe barberian a la Nijel the Destroyer and his quest to be recognized by Hrun (now for some reason king and unwilling ruler of Chimeria)
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Apr 13, 2013 12:49
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AlphaDog posted:The Tiffany books aren't set in AM, although it's mentioned and visited. The Chalk is a pretty interesting place, but clearly it's supposed to be AM's rural surrounds.
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Apr 13, 2013 13:55
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Iacen posted:Since Wyrmberg comes from that era of Discworld were magic was more wild (Pre-Sourcery, I'd call it), it's probably a pile of boring rocks now. But I would like to see Hrun and Kring again. Weren't Hrun, Cohen, Conina, AND Nijel all already pastiches of the Conan stories? That was their whole point, since they were parodying that 80s fantasy era. Last Hero was Pratchett's way of saying goodbye to that genre of fantasy. Barbarians arbitrarily killing everyone has been superseded by more complex worlds. Nerds love complex magical systems and creatures to argue over, Final Fantasy loves supermodels in fantasy environments, WoW literally is a world, etc. AlphaDog posted:The Tiffany books aren't set in AM, although it's mentioned and visited. The Chalk is a pretty interesting place, but clearly it's supposed to be AM's rural surrounds. No, the Chalk is specifically said to be an area closer to Lancre than Ankh-Morpork; it's like as close as the Utah wastelands are to New York. Same continent, yeah, but several days' travel at least. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 20:48
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When was the last book where the Gods really did much at all? It's so weird to think of there being this era where Offler and Blind Io were arguing every twenty pages and there was a ton of stuff about Fate and The Lady and now it's just like... well, I guess Thief of Time had that aspect, but that was over 13 books ago.
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Apr 13, 2013 21:23
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precision posted:When was the last book where the Gods really did much at all? It's so weird to think of there being this era where Offler and Blind Io were arguing every twenty pages and there was a ton of stuff about Fate and The Lady and now it's just like... well, I guess Thief of Time had that aspect, but that was over 13 books ago. Last Hero. Monstrous Regiment also featured a Dunmanifestin resident posthumously.
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Apr 13, 2013 21:29
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Depending on how you took that scene, Making Money has Annoiya taking out Cribbens for Moist
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Apr 13, 2013 21:35
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Darth Walrus posted:Last Hero. Monstrous Regiment also featured a Dunmanifestin resident posthumously. Perhaps after Cohen came that close to blowing them up the gods decided it'd be better to take a hands-off role in the lives of mortals. No more games of Significant Quest or Star-crossed Lovers. Which begs the question: what are they doing on those wet Sunday eternities now?
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Apr 14, 2013 01:37
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Drinking.
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Apr 14, 2013 01:59
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Ron Hitler-Barassi posted:Drinking. While yelling at their eternal foe the Ice Giants to turn the drat music down.
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Apr 14, 2013 08:55
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Mister Roboto posted:Last Hero was Pratchett's way of saying goodbye to that genre of fantasy. Barbarians arbitrarily killing everyone has been superseded by more complex worlds. Nerds love complex magical systems and creatures to argue over, Final Fantasy loves supermodels in fantasy environments, WoW literally is a world, etc. You might be right, I haven't read Last Hero. I'm saving it.
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Apr 14, 2013 19:18
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Mister Roboto posted:No, the Chalk is specifically said to be an area closer to Lancre than Ankh-Morpork; it's like as close as the Utah wastelands are to New York. Same continent, yeah, but several days' travel at least. Yeah, I guess I forget how close Lancre and AM really are. Tiff flies from The Chalk (light spoiler for ISWM) to Letitia's manor, does all the stuff there, and flies back, between midnight and sunrise, and I was picturing that location as pretty close to the one in Snuff. Which it probably is, given that Quirm is between AM and Lancre, and it only takes the witches about a day to fly from Lancre to AM if they haul rear end. Also, Vimes' coach in Thud! gets to Koom Valley really fast, and that's in Uberwald, further from AM than Lancre. Yes, I know it's using magic, but it's maybe going as fast as A HUNDRED MILES AN HOUR. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 04:52
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AlphaDog posted:Yeah, I guess I forget how close Lancre and AM really are. Is it not explicitly stated somewhere that Lancre and Ankh-Morpork are 500 miles apart?
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Apr 15, 2013 15:06
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Jedit posted:Is it not explicitly stated somewhere that Lancre and Ankh-Morpork are 500 miles apart? Googled "Lancre and Ankh-Morpork are 500 miles apart" First 3 results confirm that.
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Apr 16, 2013 02:05
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Boy, Unseen Academicals sure does read like your crazy old grandpa telling a story in a rambling, aimless style. Not a bad thing, but it's pretty jarring compared to the books he wrote out by hand, because those were always very tightly plotted with less endless conversations. Every single scene is so long. I'm only 100 pages in (out of 350 according to my eReader) and it feels like Glenda, Nutt and Trev have been talking forever. It's also sad that it feels like a crutch to have every single thing with the Wizards involve the Senior Wrangler and the Lecturer in Recent Runes, characters which have literally no personality. Dr. Hix is a pretty funny guy, and Ponder is great, but they're barely around so far.
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Apr 16, 2013 23:11
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precision posted:It's also sad that it feels like a crutch to have every single thing with the Wizards involve the Senior Wrangler and the Lecturer in Recent Runes, characters which have literally no personality. Dr. Hix is a pretty funny guy, and Ponder is great, but they're barely around so far. I kind of thought the point of Runes and Wrangler (and so on) were that they were interchangable grumpy academics, and you could put almost any one of the staff into that position and it wouldn't matter. Which makes your point valid, yeah, but they're stand-ins for "the staff".
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Apr 17, 2013 04:23
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The interchangeability of the Wrangler, Lecturer,and the Chair is a joke in itself since they are sort of a Greek chorus that provide the same role in the story. All three of them ARE the character.
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Apr 17, 2013 07:15
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Mister Roboto posted:The interchangeability of the Wrangler, Lecturer,and the Chair is a joke in itself since they are sort of a Greek chorus that provide the same role in the story. All three of them ARE the character. Fair point, I just don't like that Hix and Ponder are getting sidelined because of them. I also find it weird that Pratchett apparently at one point really wanted to build Ridcully's character up and then just said "Nah". The offhand reference to Rincewind caught me off guard too. I could of sworn he was dead or living somewhere else.
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Apr 17, 2013 08:13
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precision posted:The offhand reference to Rincewind caught me off guard too. I could of sworn he was dead or living somewhere else. I think he's been part of the faculty since The Last Continent. He got some ridiculous position in The Science Of Discworld that lets him live harmlessly in the university as he'd always wanted.
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Apr 17, 2013 08:32
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Down With People posted:I think he's been part of the faculty since The Last Continent. He got some ridiculous position in The Science Of Discworld that lets him live harmlessly in the university as he'd always wanted. Rincewind has actually been given almost every faculty post that nobody else wants, which is a surprising number when you consider there's a Professor of Eldritch Lacemaking. His main title is Egregious Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography, though.
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Apr 17, 2013 09:03
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precision posted:Fair point, I just don't like that Hix and Ponder are getting sidelined because of them. Ridcully's aborted development, you mean like in Lords and Ladies? I think Pratchett knows that Ridcully's big blustering manager character works best when given straight men to bounce off. Alone, he's a bit unrelatable to the average reader who likely is not a thickheaded CEO. Same with Vetinari, he works best when intimidating other characters. Alone, he'd be a bit boring. Also, Ridcully's been developed, just very slowly in the background. His character we read is the loudmouth, but he's actually very smart and capable, just very very stubborn to the point of foolishness. But a lot of old rich men are like that... As for Rincewind, his final swan song was in The Last Hero, which was Pratchett's way of saying that Rincewind's character arc is over with. He was sick of shoehorning in Rincewind's wacky discworld adventures by that point. Hence why his last wacky adventure was where he legitimately helped save the world AND got recognition for it for once. He's now a background character in the faculty, but that's where he wants to be. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 10:15
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I thought Rincewind was great in Interesting Times but I think in general I don't have quite the love for The Last Hero that most others do.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:56
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precision posted:I don't have quite the love for The Last Hero that most others do. Can I ask why not? I really like it a lot, and it'd be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who didn't like it so much.
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Apr 17, 2013 14:34
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AlphaDog posted:Can I ask why not? I really like it a lot, and it'd be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who didn't like it so much. Well I haven't read it in a long time, I think that I just didn't like that it was short and felt a bit lacking in the usual amount of meaty material.
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Apr 17, 2013 19:38
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precision posted:Well I haven't read it in a long time, I think that I just didn't like that it was short and felt a bit lacking in the usual amount of meaty material. The appeal of The Last Hero, for me, was the beautiful illustrations. Everything else was secondary.
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Apr 18, 2013 02:07
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precision posted:Boy, Unseen Academicals sure does read like your crazy old grandpa telling a story in a rambling, aimless style. Personally I kind of thought Making Money had some pointless things in it.
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Apr 18, 2013 08:10
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Justin_Brett posted:Personally I kind of thought Making Money had some pointless things in it. My main problem with Making Money was that I felt Moist's arc was done in Going Postal. There were nowhere to take it and Making Money ended up as more of the same. Another problem was that I think it was on the verge of saying something quite profound about the nature of money (I loved the scene where he gave an IOU in his name to a guy in the street as payment and then showed how that IOU, worth nothing in itself and only trusted because his name was on it, continued to buy stuff by being passed from buyer to seller) but ended up pissing that away and going for a golem based economy in the end. That end was a let down both in style and substance as far as I can remember my own feeling on the matter, it's been quite a while since I last read it. 
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Apr 18, 2013 10:52
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Making Money was "more of the same", but in that case "the same" is so good I didn't care at all. Seriously Moist and Adora are just awesome.
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Apr 19, 2013 01:22
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Do we know if we're getting a discworld novel this year or is it just the long earth sequel?
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May 9, 2013 19:46
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