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The Shortest Path posted:Your impression that stat mods matter makes me think you don't assume Limit Break on your characters. ...Underdog? Are you making GBS threads me? What's the point of getting Underdog on Nah? In-game, it's a mediocre skill at best and vastly outclassed by Aptitude, and I find it really hard to believe 15 hit/avoid is meaningful enough to be worth a slot in the deep postgame. Definitely not seeing how it beats out both Luna and Pavise. And I'm really not seeing why stat caps should be disregarded, even with Limit Break. Sure, minimum Spd Nah can double God Anna...if you either run her as a fully Rallied Assassin with Swordmaster support and All Stats +2 or drop All Stats +2 and use an Assassin partner with Nah wielding Balmung. But those are impractical setups no one in their right mind is ever going to run seriously. Whereas a good Spd mod would let you do it without, y'know, going out of your way to pump your Spd as much as possible and allows for you to use a slower class, a less Spd-focused pair up partner, a better weapon, a better skill, etc., etc.
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Apr 19, 2013 23:06
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I'm getting this over the weekend as it came over out in the UK, what difficulty would people recommend someone starts on if they enjoyed previous Fire Emblems?
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Apr 20, 2013 01:46
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Hard should be good if you've played before. Up to you if you want to go classic or casual since it doesn't really change the difficulty any.
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Apr 20, 2013 01:49
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I could use a bit of help finishing up some eugenics planning. Here's what I've got so far, starting with pairs I'm dead seat on and going down toward people I have no idea what to do with: + STR/- LUK Avatar/Walhart: Shooting for maximum  with this one.Henry/Maribelle: Gives a nice, combat capable Brady. Chrom/Olivia: A solid pairing for reasons all ready covered in the thread. Vaike/Nowi: Good strength and defense mods without the negative speed mod that Kellam/Nowi would give. Seems a good skill set too. Donnel/Sully: Galeforce for Kjelle, tons of useful skills to choose from. Gregor/Panne: drat good stat mods all around, and Sol could be a big help. Libra/Lissa: Rounds out the magical end of Owain's class set. I'm hoping to set him up as a good Dread Fighter. Gaius/Tharja: Galeforce for Noire. I'm thinking of pushing Noire more towards some sort of archer build just for the hell of it. I realize that this is less than optimal. Ricken/Miriel: High magic mod. Doubles as a silly wizard hat quarantine. Lon'qu/Cordelia: Huge speed and skill mods, positive strength mod, and a good class set. Frederick/Sumia: Only option left, but doesn't seem too bad. Stahl/Cherche: Stat mods seem good? I honestly have no clue what to do here. Are there any good combos that I am overlooking here?
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Apr 20, 2013 02:06
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Luck flaw reduces strength by one. A Defense flaw would give you the highest possible Strength, won't hurt your Magic and give +2 Skill at the expense of -1 to Luck, Defense and Resistance. Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 02:20
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I'm sure this is always talked about but what's my best way to not die horribly on Lunatic? I've Frederick abused my way through the end of chapter 4 so I have the dlc unlocked. Champions of Yore 1 is annoying to grind on cause of the mages but I can usually beat it. If I buy the exponential growth map how much does that help?
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Apr 20, 2013 02:38
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usedpizza posted:I'm sure this is always talked about but what's my best way to not die horribly on Lunatic? I've Frederick abused my way through the end of chapter 4 so I have the dlc unlocked. Champions of Yore 1 is annoying to grind on cause of the mages but I can usually beat it. If I buy the exponential growth map how much does that help? It and golden gaffe help significantly.
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Apr 20, 2013 02:40
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Cat Army 
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Man, all this inheritance stuff looks really complicated, but it's way more simple than it first seems. Going for a bit of a eugenics/super Morgan run this time. Taking it slowly though, as a side project. Still going to keep my first playthrough as the main "do everything" run. Haven't thought much out yet, will probably just grab a nice-looking plan from this thread. Gonna be a while until I decide to pair Nowi with. Seeing how crazy good Nah was without paying much attention to inheritance, thinking it out should result in silliness. Recruited Morgan though. Went for Olivia!Lucina and Lucina!Morgan (I think that's how the phrasing goes?), passed over Aether and Counter. That seemed to be the best stuff to go for. Oh, and grabbed the Avatar from playthrough one to kick open Lost Bloodlines 3 for Paragon. Anything to cut grinding is appreciated, so it was worth the 130000 or so to recruit her. Only took about five or so goes at the Golden Gaffe with my terrible party. I was rushing through the story so if I messed up getting Chrom to marry Olivia, resetting wouldn't be too bad. So basically I've got a really strong Avatar at the expense of everything else. Gotta start building the rest of the team up now.
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Apr 20, 2013 02:52
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usedpizza posted:If I buy the exponential growth map how much does that help? You can get at least six levels out of one run of EXP growth, and at least 15,000 gold per golden gaffe run. Though, even with my units at levels 13-14, with forged weapons, they still had to double/triple up to kill units, and make sure no unit was in range of more than one enemy unit (or did not attack if there was one). Ultimately I just got tired of it and started a new game on hard/classic just to see the unique cutscenes if the avatar marries Chrom, get Severa since Cordelia died the first time around, and dick around in general. Lunatic's really just tedious, especially since you can't really fight risen, and spotpass teams are even stronger too, but I like messing around with all that before moving on to the next chapter.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:00
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I'm trying to decide between Tiki, Aversa and Cordelia. Manaketes are neat, Shadowgift is good, but if I go for Cordelia I can get two insanely powerful children. At this point my avatar can basically solo anything without Hawkeye and Counter but it never hurrts to have more.  JTDistortion posted:
Go for Cherche/Vaike then Avatar/Gerome. 
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Apr 20, 2013 03:04
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has more to it than just strength cap. I'm afraid only Walhart will do. That combo is ridiculous, though. What is it, something like + 10 strength mod? That with aggressor or whatever the dread fighter skill is called could get ludicrous.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:33
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JTDistortion posted:
98 damage a hit with a forged Hector's Axe, aggressor, and axefaire. Which adds up to... 7 damage a hit against the toughest enemy in the game. Rallies and a good battle buddy would push you above ten, at least. Can't think of many others who could say the same.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:55
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Shiny777 posted:...Underdog? Are you making GBS threads me? What's the point of getting Underdog on Nah? In-game, it's a mediocre skill at best and vastly outclassed by Aptitude, and I find it really hard to believe 15 hit/avoid is meaningful enough to be worth a slot in the deep postgame. Definitely not seeing how it beats out both Luna and Pavise. My initial reaction was the same when I was reading 2ch mathcrafting stuff about putting Underdog on Nah, but then I started playing around with it myself and found out that 15 hit and avoid, especially on a slower character like Nah, is a hell of a lot. It's 10 each of skill and speed worth of hit and avoid, which really does matter on the harder DLC maps considering that her regular hit rate isn't particularly stellar against endgame enemies. I wouldn't say it's better than Luna, but it definitely beats out Pavise as 15% avoid will mitigate a lot more damage in the long run than the minor amount of damage that Pavise reduces. Aegis is fine, Pavise not so much because of her stellar defense. With rallies and LB alone you're taking practically nothing from all physical sources. Even Anna hits for about ten damage depending on what you have on her and who her dad is. As to the speed issue, I was misunderstanding how what I was saying would come out. Regardless of whether her father is Donnel or Vaike, you will need to jump through a ton of silly hoops for Nah to be able to double Anna. Either parent, however, will put her at enough speed to not be able to be doubled by her with just an Assassin support and Rallies, putting her at 66 with Donnel or 68 with Vaike. Anything else in the game she can easily double without needing anything beyond that. Not being doubled by Anna on your tankiest and slowest character is more than enough, as like I was saying before you don't NEED all of your characters to be able to double her, nor do you want to because it forces you through a bunch of ridiculous bullshit like using Swordmasters, Barracks boosts, etc. This is all assuming, by the way, that she's a Manakete, because if you're using tanky Nah as anything else you're doing it wrong. Though I'm pretty sure even as a General she's still fast enough to not get doubled by Anna. EDIT: Also, for the record, Aptitude is a completely worthless skill because of infinite grinding. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 04:51
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The Shortest Path posted:EDIT: Also, for the record, Aptitude is a completely worthless skill because of infinite grinding. I could just as easily say "For the record, Underdog is a completely worthless skill because enemies in Lunatic DLC have Hit +20 and Lunatic+ enemies will hit you regardless." But not everyone's going to play on Lunatic+.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:35
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Saying Aptitude is worthless is crazy. It's one of the best skills in the game for the form of play the majority of players will be doing. There are other forms of quality then optimal for as of yet unreleased challenge DLC. e: I mean, yes, it's terrible if your metric is said DLC, but let's not say things that might give new players some bad ideas. Cake Attack fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 05:38
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It's also worth recognizing that not everyone is going to pay money to effectively cheat and in that situation assured level growth is a massive timesaver.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:40
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Cake Attack posted:Saying Aptitude is worthless is crazy. It's one of the best skills in the game for the form of play the majority of players will be doing. There are other forms of quality then optimal for as of yet unreleased challenge DLC. I'm not convinced underdog would even be good there anyways because a decent chunk of the enemies have Hawkeye and I'm not convinced I ever actually dodged any attacks--the two RN system is solidly in the enemy's favor. Dual Guard+ seems almost strictly better than underdog, and even that isn't amazing because you're already popping Fortify every turn and dual guards aren't reliable enough to count on your tank to take on two enemies.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:42
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Hawkeye and Breaker spam would gum up any Avoid skills, although at least Manaketes are immune to Breakers.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:43
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Nakar posted:That's a pretty shortsighted view. Aptitude can be great in the right circumstances and with the right playstyle. It's like saying Sully x Chrom is "completely worthless" because it doesn't provide Galeforce. That's true... but it might be a more optimal pairing than the alternatives in a LTC run or something. Aptitude is probably not technically better than Underdog or Counter for Donnel's daughters, but those skills are fairly questionable regardless. A lot of people aren't going to infinitely grind. Also, depending upon who Donnel fathers they either won't have too many better options from him or will be male and can pick up both Aptitude and Underdog anyway. But we're still looking at the best possible options for each character, rather than temporary solutions. Aptitude, by the recommendation of "best possible result", is probably the worst skill in the game, for there is that option to grind endlessly. On another topic, Vengeance is the most broken skill in the game, and I have learned that simply by playing Death's Embrace. Slur fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 05:43
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Slur posted:But we're still looking at the best possible options for each character, rather than temporary solutions. Aptitude, by the recommendation of "best possible result", is probably the worst skill in the game, for there is that option to grind endlessly. Though having said that, Avoid skills are actually really good for grinding.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:50
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Nakar posted:If a skill isn't going to end up on a skillset, it's basically worthless. However, Aptitude won't be worthless while grinding a character up, where another skill might be if you end up never using it at all. The end result is the same though, isn't it? Aptitude probably only saves you 15 minutes of grinding if you know what you're doing.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:52
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Slur posted:The end result is the same though, isn't it? Aptitude probably only saves you 15 minutes of grinding if you know what you're doing. You can blather about the end result as much as you want, the point is that it makes the process easier and less painful and that is a Good Thing.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:55
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The post I made was in the context of near-perfect endgame builds. Obviously Aptitude is great on LTC runs or through the course of normal gameplay if you don't use DLC or grind much, but when discussing that sort of thing talking about optimal eugenics at all is silly because it will never matter.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:56
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Really, any skill is only situationally useful. If you're stat capped right now (especially with Limit Break) you have zero need for Vantage because it will never proc. Vengeance doesn't matter because you won't fail to kill the other guy anyway. Aptitude has its uses when you just play to beat the game, and most people will do just that. That said, I don't personally see much use in Underdog. A skill that can stop working because you leveled up seems really irritating.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:13
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The Shortest Path posted:My initial reaction was the same when I was reading 2ch mathcrafting stuff about putting Underdog on Nah, but then I started playing around with it myself and found out that 15 hit and avoid, especially on a slower character like Nah, is a hell of a lot. It's 10 each of skill and speed worth of hit and avoid, which really does matter on the harder DLC maps considering that her regular hit rate isn't particularly stellar against endgame enemies. I wouldn't say it's better than Luna, but it definitely beats out Pavise as 15% avoid will mitigate a lot more damage in the long run than the minor amount of damage that Pavise reduces. Aegis is fine, Pavise not so much because of her stellar defense. With rallies and LB alone you're taking practically nothing from all physical sources. Even Anna hits for about ten damage depending on what you have on her and who her dad is. In the long run, sure, Aptitude's getting dropped. It speeds things up in the short term, though, and considering that only decent non-support Fighter tree skills are also in the Merc tree, not much reason not to pass it unless you're going for Underdog, which I'm still not really sold on. Doing some math with my existing file, Serenes boss stats, and that doc with the full set of enemies to see for myself... Vaike!Nah, maxed out as a Manakete, with Limit Breaker, using a Dragonstone+, with Assassin Morgan paired with her (they have an S on the file I'm using), under the effects of Rally Love, Skill, Speed, and Spectrum is looking at... 219 hit, 144 avoid. For comparison, checking hit and avoid rates on the final DLC's alt version bosses... Warrior: 238 hit with Silver Bow, 233 hit with Silver Axe, 112 avoid. Nah has a 100% hit rate, an 89% chance of being hit with the axe, and a 94% chance of being hit with the bow. Tanky Sniper: 249 hit, 135 avoid. Nah has an 84% hit rate, and a 100% chance of being hit. rear end in a top hat Sorcerer: 241 hit, 139 Avoid. Nah has an 80% hit rate, and a 97% chance of being hit. Helswath Berserker: 200 hit, 128 avoid. Nah has a 91% hit rate, and a 56% chance of being hit. God Anna: 232 hit, 137 avoid. Nah has an 82% hit rate, and an 88% chance of being hit. These numbers don't really look all that bad to me. Her accuracy looks acceptable, and 15 avoid isn't going to do that much for dodge tanking any of them but the 'zerker. If anything, she'd be better off burning (or having her husband burn) a slot for Dual Guard+ and having about a coin flip's chance of going "gently caress you no damage" no matter what the hit% says, if you want to make her "dodge" poo poo. And these are the alt bosses. Most of the normal enemies, from a quick skim, have significantly lower scores in at least one or two of Skl/Spd/Luck, so she should be looking at even better hit rates there. Meanwhile, it seems like Pavise actually has a practical use in dealing with enemy proc skills. Like making Luna+ less horrifically painful. Or to a lesser extent soaking stuff like the odd Ignis.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:22
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Slur posted:The end result is the same though, isn't it? Aptitude probably only saves you 15 minutes of grinding if you know what you're doing. Right, I'm sure next you'll tell me all about how Veteran, Paragon, and Armsthrift are worthless too  . Sure their results can effectively be achieved just by grinding/farming for longer, but there's value in speeding up that process and making it more convenient.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:38
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Manatee Cannon posted:Really, any skill is only situationally useful. If you're stat capped right now (especially with Limit Break) you have zero need for Vantage because it will never proc. Vengeance doesn't matter because you won't fail to kill the other guy anyway. Aptitude has its uses when you just play to beat the game, and most people will do just that. Vantage and Vengeance absolutely do matter even when you're statcapped. Maxed out defense isn't going to stop you from going below half against all the 80-100 damage hits that enemies put out. And vengeance helps your survivability a lot with Nos/AverNight on sorcerers. The thing about Underdog that makes it useful on a manakete (or taguel, I suppose) is that it counts promoted units as being 20 levels higher, so a level 20 promoted unit is seen as a level 40, where a maxed out manakete is still only level 30 because it's considered an unpromoted class, so it is always active. Wind God Sety posted:Right, I'm sure next you'll tell me all about how Veteran, Paragon, and Armsthrift are worthless too To be fair, Armsthrift has a very real use other than to speed up grinding in that it prevents you from running out of weapon uses mid-combat and then dying. Especially when dealing with 10-use weapons like Aversa's Night, or 4-hit weapons like Braves, that's a very significant issue even if you fill your inventory with them. Also, it's not that those skills aren't useful as time savers in some situations, it's that you're taking Aptitude over another skill being passed down from Donnel that the child may not be able to ever get otherwise, those being Underdog, Counter, and Rally Strength. Fajita Queen fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 06:41
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The Shortest Path posted:Vantage and Vengeance absolutely do matter even when you're statcapped. Maxed out defense isn't going to stop you from going below half against all the 80-100 damage hits that enemies put out. And vengeance helps your survivability a lot with Nos/AverNight on sorcerers. But they don't unless you have DLC. Which you might not. Which, even if you did, still only really come up in one that we have access to right now (the Est map). Unless you just heal all the damage away at the start of your turn, which you might do instead. Outside of that one map, neither is likely to ever have a chance to proc Vantage. As for Underdog, that means it is useful on two units. One, really, because taguel is bad and Yarne doesn't want to be stuck in that class. You kind of missed what I was saying. My point is that you can make a case for pretty much any skill being good or not. I have no use for Underdog, but that doesn't mean it's useless.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:52
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Manatee Cannon posted:But they don't unless you have DLC. Which you might not. Which, even if you did, still only really come up in one that we have access to right now (the Est map). Unless you just heal all the damage away at the start of your turn, which you might do instead. Outside of that one map, neither is likely to ever have a chance to proc Vantage. As for Underdog, that means it is useful on two units. One, really, because taguel is bad and Yarne doesn't want to be stuck in that class. But if you don't have DLC, you don't have Limit Break on any of your units, which completely undoes your entire point. If you're doing, say, Lunatic or Lunatic+ Grima without LB both of those skills are quite useful even with pre-LB max stats. Hell, if you don't have DLC, it's nearly impossible to get max stats on any unit in Lunatic or Lunatic+ anyways. Aptitude/Paragon/etc. are useful while you're grinding, and otherwise they're useless. Underdog is a decent on Nah (or Manakete Morgan too, but she has a lot of better options) and is otherwise useless. We were talking about endgame, and only one of those two cases has endgame application. And again, as I said, Paragon can be taken on anyone without losing out on anything. That's not true for Aptitude, which requires you to give up on passing down anything else from Donnel.
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Apr 20, 2013 07:01
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Yeah, if you're on those difficulties. Situational. You're doing a better job of proving my point than arguing against it.
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Apr 20, 2013 07:08
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The Shortest Path posted:But if you don't have DLC, you don't have Limit Break on any of your units, which completely undoes your entire point. If you're doing, say, Lunatic or Lunatic+ Grima without LB both of those skills are quite useful even with pre-LB max stats. Hell, if you don't have DLC, it's nearly impossible to get max stats on any unit in Lunatic or Lunatic+ anyways. On the other hand, there's not much else Donnel can pass down that a daughter can't learn on her own. If we're just talking about optimising for the hardest DLC, Counter is 100% useless for The Strongest's Name, Rally Strength is pointless when SpotPass characters make better rallybots anyway, and Underdog is situational at best (and will be competing with several other good skills for a very limited number of slots). Aptitude at least saves you some grinding time.
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Apr 20, 2013 07:14
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Aptitude is actually pretty handy on Donnel!Kjelle because she has like the lowest RES growth of any of the daughters. But Aptitude can push it >50% when she's a Valkyrie (a class he also gives her). Can you technically still max her RES by Second Sealing her over and over? Sure. But it's kind of a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 20, 2013 08:40
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So, not really sure how to class the last of my group, how I have it planned out so far is something like: Stahl!Yarne - Beserker (Swordbreaker, Wrath, Astra, Vantage, Axefaire) Olivia!Lucina - Assassin (Rightful King, Aether, Lethality, Galeforce, Limit Break) Chrom!Inigo - Hero (Limit Break, Armsthrift, Galeforce, Sol, Rightful King) Libra!Owain - Sorceror (Galeforce, Vantage, Vengeance, Tomefaire, Limit Break) Donnel!Kjelle - General (Galeforce, Armsthrift, Aegis, Pavise, Sol) Lon'qu!Severa - Sword Master (Armsthrift, Galeforce, Sol, Vantage, Swordfaire) Kellam!Nah - Manakete - (Luna, Pavise, Renewal, Swordbreaker, Limit Break) Gregor!Gerome - (Dual Support+, Aggressor, Deliverer, Armsthrift, Limit Break) Ricken!Laurent - (Dual Support+, Dual Guard+, Anathema, Aggressor, Limit Break) MUnit - Sorceror (Armsthrift, Sol, Pavise, Aegis, Limit Break) ???!Morgan - Sorceror (Armsthrift, Vengeance, Vantage, Galeforce, Limit Break) However, for Noire, Cynthia, and Brady, I'm not too sure what to do. I could pair Henry and Tharja, and make a good support Noire (DG+, DS+, Anathema, etc, etc) to marry off to MUnit and give me a nice magic based Morgan (My asset/flaw is Mag/Str.) That'd leave me with a Gaius!Brady that I really don't know what to do with. And as for Frederick!Cynthia, I know she's basically doomed to be a support character, but I just don't know how to spec her.
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Apr 20, 2013 09:55
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I'm really liking this game so far ( I'm only a few hours in ), but I have a serious dilemma. I'm playing on Normal Classic, and haven't lost a single unit yet. But I know that I'm going to lose one or two eventually, and I know that I'm going to be absolutely crushed when that happens. I'm not really good at SRPG's, so I'm fearing a massacre for my lovable characters. I'm now debating whether to continue Classic-mode, or just start a new game with non-permanent deaths. Should I just push on and take the Fire Emblem -experience as it is ( force-resets and all ), or pussy-foot through the game in the other mode thanks to a fear of losing my characters?
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Apr 20, 2013 14:09
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You can just restart the map when a character dies. Turn the game off, load from your last save. You get all the inherent danger but don't have to push on without anyone. EDIT: Oh, you mentioned that. Then... up to you...? Seriously, whatever works best for you. It's a game with an option. If you wanna play on casual, go for it.
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Apr 20, 2013 14:14
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Endorph posted:You can just restart the map when a character dies. Turn the game off, load from your last save. You get all the inherent danger but don't have to push on without anyone. Hehe, yeah... I was just hoping that somebody would come and claim that playing on 'casual' is 'playing it wrong' or something.  I'm probably going to switch for casual if classic gets too intense. I'm pretty sure that I'll play through this game at least a couple of times anyway.
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Apr 20, 2013 14:19
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We all joked that Casual was heresy, but once the game actually came out, it turned out to be no big deal. However, you can't change difficulty mid-game, so until you start a new file, you're stuck on Classic. If that's okay with you, then you'll want to know that L+R+Start os soft reset.
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Apr 20, 2013 14:23
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While I wouldn't tell anyone to not play on Casual if that's what they wanted to do, I do find that Classic forces you to become good at the game faster through necessity. My girlfriend had been playing on Casual for 50+ hours and I would still hear at least two people "die" per map. I watched her play and she would always over-extend herself and not really do anything except move her units as close to the enemies as possible each turn. I feel Casual doesn't really encourage you do actively think all that much and as a result you don't learn to strategize. Kaubocks fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 14:46
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Nakar posted:Aptitude is actually pretty handy on Donnel!Kjelle because she has like the lowest RES growth of any of the daughters. But Aptitude can push it >50% when she's a Valkyrie (a class he also gives her). And miss out on Counter, which is invaluable for streetpass teams.
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Apr 20, 2013 15:09
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So my copy of this just arrived and I was wondering about the stat choices for my avatar - are any choices going to screw me over? Should I just decide whether I'm going physical or magical with him and pick strength magic power? This seems like a really important choice and the game basically tells you nothing.
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Apr 20, 2013 15:18
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