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Between this and Dorner I'm just disappointed that mass murderers don't at least plan out this stuff in more detail. They are good at planning the deaths but not the get-away part.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:05
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Edged Hymn posted:You could almost feel the release of all that tension last night. I've never been prouder to be a Bostonian. I wish I could have been in that Watertown crowd cheering the cops on when they drove by. Mad respect for law enforcement and their dedication through what must have been one of the most emotionally and physically draining weeks of their lives. Enjoy the weekend you glorious bastards, you earned it. Especially you, Petey. asdf32 posted:Yes it was either in the zone or right outside it. I sort of wonder that too. I know people right outside the zone that had their house searched so they weren't limiting things to just the zone. And they knew blood was found outside the zone at some point. Of course it's hard to search large areas but a boat in a backyard is a prime hiding place for someone on foot. Also, personally had I seen the tarp flapping I think I would have just called the cops immediately and not poked my head in. But that's me. I remember hearing that the house had been searched before the resident called the police about the suspicious activity in their yard. I'd guess that it was searched before and he didn't hide in the boat until afterwards.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:06
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SocketWrench posted:Neither of these guys tripped any red flags, ever except maybe the older one in one instance.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:06
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Morally Inept posted:Between this and Dorner I'm just disappointed that mass murderers don't at least plan out this stuff in more detail. They are good at planning the deaths but not the get-away part. Dorner did a much better job despite getting his rear end killed only in a few days right?
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Apr 20, 2013 18:06
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Morally Inept posted:Between this and Dorner I'm just disappointed that mass murderers don't at least plan out this stuff in more detail. They are good at planning the deaths but not the get-away part. People that do poo poo like this are often grandiose thinkers with delusions about their capabilities. They do poo poo like this openly and publically but without any kind of planning or foresight (again, those delusions play a part in why). Criminal masterminds they are not.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:07
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Is that @J_tsar for sure him? Looks like it. It's so weird he would just keep tweeting after the bombings 
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Apr 20, 2013 18:07
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They are definitely going to attempt to try the case in a federal court, but it's probably not a completely foregone conclusion. Some Harvard law professor suggested that the defense could e.g. argue that his intent was to follow the instructions of his brother, which might make charging him for the federal terrorism charge more difficult and thus question the federal jurisdiction.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:08
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Syllogism posted:They are definitely going to attempt to try him the case in a federal court, but it's probably not a completely foregone conclusion. Some Harvard law professor suggested that the defense could e.g. argue that his intent was to follow the instructions of his brother, which might make charging him for the federal terrorism charge more difficult and thus question the federal jurisdiction. Where is this? I don't follow the reasoning here that would defeat federal jurisdiction.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:09
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Syllogism posted:They are definitely going to attempt to try him the case in a federal court, but it's probably not a completely foregone conclusion. Some Harvard law professor suggested that the defense could e.g. argue that his intent was to follow the instructions of his brother, which might make charging him for the federal terrorism charge more difficult and thus question the federal jurisdiction. That sounds to me more like a defence they will use to avoid the death penalty (likely going for life without though his rear end is so getting shipped out to ADX Florence) rather than an argument that he might not go to federal court.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:10
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Shaocaholica posted:Dorner did a much better job despite getting his rear end killed only in a few days right? Dorner didn't manage to accomplish poo poo other than make his car break down and be forced to hide in a shed, unable to do anything before the police fried his rear end, I wouldn't exactly call him competent. He did manage to hide from the police a tad longer after they figured out who they were looking for IIRC, but other than that, he wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind either.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:10
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Ninja fetus posted:Wasn't he questioned by the FBI on multiple occasions? He was questioned by the FBI on behalf of a foreign government and cleared. Godholio posted:You're being sarcastic, but I wouldn't really care. I don't think this is what Martin would have wanted. the black husserl fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 18:10
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Ninja fetus posted:Wasn't he questioned by the FBI on multiple occasions? He was interviewed by the FBI in 2011 at the request of a foreign government (most likely Russia). No ties to extremist movements could be found. It's idiotic to imply the FBI hosed up by not doing anything further because honestly if they didn't find anything they didn't find anything and if that's the case they had no reason to continue their investigation of him.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:11
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Hogarth Hughes posted:Look how angry you are because the terrorists got caught. It's kinda nice to be able to mock these chucklefucks. Terrorism is a lot less effective when the Bad Dudes reveal themselves to be incompetent violent morons instead of criminal masterminds. Terrorists aren't some mythical boogeymen who spring fully formed out of the primordial asscrack of mankind. They're often frustrated and desperate young men who've failed to find their place in the world, and instead lash out as one last way to make their mark on the world. Taking note of their humanity and fallibility tears down a lot of the political power of their lovely actions. They are criminals, not supervillains. There's nothing smart about blowing up a crowd, I'd say you'd have to be pretty goddamn stupid in the first place to do that. Dr. Cogwerks fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 18:12
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evilweasel posted:Where is this? I don't follow the reasoning here that would defeat federal jurisdiction.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:12
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Crasscrab posted:He was interviewed by the FBI in 2011 at the request of a foreign government (most likely Russia). No ties to extremist movements could be found. It's idiotic to imply the FBI hosed up by not doing anything further because honestly if they didn't find anything they didn't find anything and if that's the case they had no reason to continue their investigation of him. Yeah, I can't really fault the FBI for closing the case on that one because if he didn't have any ties to extremist groups or traveled to countries known to harbor terrorists there really is gently caress-all they can do. They can't detain him "just in case" if there is no evidence there.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:13
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Syllogism posted:They are definitely going to attempt to try the case in a federal court, but it's probably not a completely foregone conclusion. Some Harvard law professor suggested that the defense could e.g. argue that his intent was to follow the instructions of his brother, which might make charging him for the federal terrorism charge more difficult and thus question the federal jurisdiction. This doesn't really follow considering Nichols's explanation was McVeigh threatened to kill his family if he didn't help McVeigh with the planning and construction of a bomb.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:13
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the black husserl posted:This is so hopelessly cruel. I've really trying to stay away from social media until at least next week when the story blows over a bit. On the forums though you can't really differentiate who is being sincere and who isn't.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:14
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Shaocaholica posted:What idiots. Why loving commit the 'worst terrorist act since 9-11' and not have a get away car ready with a full tank of gas, clothes, food and a few thousand in cash? Someone with half a brain would have been out of state the same day and out of country the next. Spoeank posted:Is that @J_tsar for sure him? Looks like it. It's so weird he would just keep tweeting after the bombings I'd like to take both of these and say that I don't think either of them thought they were going to get caught. I think they picked the Marathon because it was an open event with a huge crowd, in which they could move "undetected". Their car was in the shop, they didn't seem to have an escape plane, they didn't have money saved up to run away with, and they didn't even try to leave town until their pictures were shown on national news. Ninja Edit: The twitter fits into this in my opinion because it shows evidence of just continuing afterward as if everything is normal. I also happen to think they planned on more attacks in the future, but I have 0 evidence to back this up.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:15
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It probably has something to do with the fact that the prosecution has to prove which individual actions were committed by which brother and there are a lot of criteria (e.g. it has to be in furtherance of political or social objectives) that have to be met for the actions to be classified as an act of terrorism
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Apr 20, 2013 18:16
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Falls Down Stairs posted:I remember hearing that the house had been searched before the resident called the police about the suspicious activity in their yard. I'd guess that it was searched before and he didn't hide in the boat until afterwards. I really think there is a 0% chance he moved locations during the day. Literally everyone was off the streets. Anyone moving would be seen. Backyards here are tiny and completely visible to neighbors on all 4 sides. He couldn't move during the day after the lockdown. He almost certainly got there in the night/early morning and was hiding all day.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:16
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wilderthanmild posted:I also happen to think they planned on more attacks in the future, but I have 0 evidence to back this up. You have the other explosives they had.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:17
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The bombing itself would at least be a federal crime. 18 USC § 2332f - Bombings of places of public use, government facilities, public transportation systems and infrastructure facilities (a) Offenses.— (1) In general.— Whoever unlawfully delivers, places, discharges, or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into, or against a place of public use, a state or government facility, a public transportation system, or an infrastructure facility— (A) with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or (B) with the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility, or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss, shall be punished as prescribed in subsection (c). (2) Attempts and conspiracies.— Whoever attempts or conspires to commit an offense under paragraph (1) shall be punished as prescribed in subsection (c). Federal death penalty applies under 18 USC § 2332a, which is "Use of weapons of mass destruction". The two statutes point towards each other in this case for punishment and definitions.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:17
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asdf32 posted:I really think there is a 0% chance he moved locations during the day. Literally everyone was off the streets. Anyone moving would be seen. Backyards here are tiny and completely visible to neighbors on all 4 sides. He couldn't move during the day after the lockdown. He almost certainly got there in the night/early morning and was hiding all day. The picture that's circulating of him entering the boat was taken at night; he almost certainly hid shortly after the shootout before a lockdown was publicly declared.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:18
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wilderthanmild posted:I'd like to take both of these and say that I don't think either of them thought they were going to get caught. I think they picked the Marathon because it was an open event with a huge crowd, in which they could move "undetected". Their car was in the shop, they didn't seem to have an escape plane, they didn't have money saved up to run away with, and they didn't even try to leave town until their pictures were shown on national news. Ninja Edit: The twitter fits into this in my opinion because it shows evidence of just continuing afterward as if everything is normal. I think they were a bit too confident too. White hat carried on with his life like everything was normal. Even went to the gym. I imagine they thought they had pulled off the perfect crime.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:18
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vanbags posted:You just have to ignore a lot of those sentiments. It's still fresh and people are going to say some outlandish poo poo that they might not normally say because emotions are riding high. You know what actually makes me feel better when I read people calling for more death, more torture? This picture: 
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Apr 20, 2013 18:18
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Spoeank posted:Is that @J_tsar for sure him? Looks like it. It's so weird he would just keep tweeting after the bombings It's him. I think their plan was to continue living their lives, have an alibi, and either get away with it or commit another attack.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:19
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Justin Godscock posted:The picture that's circulating of him entering the boat was taken at night; he almost certainly hid shortly after the shootout before a lockdown was publicly declared. That wasn't a picture of him entering the boat. That was a picture of him exiting the boat after surrendering.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:19
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Warm und Fuzzy posted:Zacarias Moussaoui is alive in a supermax prison in Colorodo. I think that's because the US government struck a deal with Europe in exchange for evidence. Supermax is honestly worse than death. You are absolutely alone with no human contact in a stainless steel and poured concrete room. As you said, it's basically just a room built entirely around waiting until you die. I seriously doubt anyone who is there is sane after 5 years.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:20
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Burning Mustache posted:Dorner didn't manage to accomplish poo poo other than make his car break down and be forced to hide in a shed, unable to do anything before the police fried his rear end, I wouldn't exactly call him competent. He did manage to hide from the police a tad longer after they figured out who they were looking for IIRC, but other than that, he wasn't exactly a criminal mastermind either. In Dorner's case though he was dealing with a police department slightly less competent than himself. Their overreaction was part of his strategy.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:20
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Untagged posted:The bombing itself would at least be a federal crime. Yeah, it's what McVeigh and Nichols were charged under in their trial. What's the complicator, however, is all the post-9/11 anti-terrorism legislation that the guy will most likely be charged under if the federal government declares his actions terrorism (which they pretty much have, legally though they could change their mind but not bloody likely). That legislation did not exist in 1995 which is why McVeigh and company were not charged as such. Still, McVeigh got executed and Nichols is currently sharing a cell block with the Unabomber for the rest of his life.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:20
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They're doing a ceremony before the Red Sox game right now- coverage is on ESPN, for anyone interested.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:21
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ryan8723 posted:Supermax is honestly worse than death. You are absolutely alone with no human contact in a stainless steel and poured concrete room. As you said, it's basically just a room built entirely around waiting until you die. Eric Rudolph (the 1996 Olympic bomber who also bombed abortion clinics and gay bars) is in ADX Florence and has described it as breaking down the human soul. Even the windows are angled upwards so inmates can only see sky so they don't know their orientation within the prison. He also got federally charged and avoiding the death penalty by pleading guilty and now serves life without.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:22
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gently caress This Puzzle posted:You have the other explosives they had. Yea, that's what actually made me think that originally.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:22
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ryan8723 posted:Supermax is honestly worse than death. You are absolutely alone with no human contact in a stainless steel and poured concrete room. As you said, it's basically just a room built entirely around waiting until you die.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:22
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Untagged posted:The bombing itself would at least be a federal crime.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:23
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Democratic Pirate posted:Reddit is good for providing those minute by minute updates from the police scanner/other sources, which totally makes normal media irrelevant. Except for, you know, those other sources reddit gets it's information from being said normal media. SA is far better at providing minute by minute updates because SA's format is infinitely better for it. If Reddit would just remove the drat voting system for comments and make it a thread version like SA, it would improve the site by 100%.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:24
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Morally Inept posted:Between this and Dorner I'm just disappointed that mass murderers don't at least plan out this stuff in more detail. They are good at planning the deaths but not the get-away part. How exactly do you plan around a police shootout on a residential street?
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Apr 20, 2013 18:25
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Gio posted:Supermax prisons are ridiculously inhumane and hosed up. I cant imagine not losing your mind in there. Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:26
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Sperg Victorious posted:I think they were a bit too confident too. White hat carried on with his life like everything was normal. Even went to the gym. I imagine they thought they had pulled off the perfect crime. Yea, their plan, as we know it at least, seems like one of those half baked "perfect crimes" people think up sometimes. I feel like these guys had some long talked about plan where they "outsmart" the cops again and again.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:26
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wilderthanmild posted:I'd like to take both of these and say that I don't think either of them thought they were going to get caught. I think they picked the Marathon because it was an open event with a huge crowd, in which they could move "undetected". Their car was in the shop, they didn't seem to have an escape plane, they didn't have money saved up to run away with, and they didn't even try to leave town until their pictures were shown on national news. Ninja Edit: The twitter fits into this in my opinion because it shows evidence of just continuing afterward as if everything is normal. Dzhokhar had tagged in at the gym in his university a few days later and various witnesses have said they saw him walking around on campus after the bombings. They clearly thought they had gotten away with it but once the FBI released their pictures they had to scramble for a plan B.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:27
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