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Vietnamwees posted:Sorry I just came back to the thread, and this Miranda rights thing seems really weird.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:55
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Vietnamwees posted:Sorry I just came back to the thread, and this Miranda rights thing seems really weird. Please tell me you are trolling.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:56
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Once I knew a Swede who had been taken in by the police for drunken foolishness all over Europe and told me about how in the various countries to tell whether you had been arrested or not. He said it usually involved whether they threw some kind of paper at you that explained your rights or not. That was an interesting conversation.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:57
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Vietnamwees posted:Isn't that supposed to happen RIGHT when you get arrested? NO. Miranda warnings rarely are in real life, this is a dramatic tv thing. They are read before questioning about the crime if they want to use it in court. The police used a public safety exemption to this to ask about a narrow topic and ONLY about this topic, are there more bombs anywhere? He is FREE to remain silent or have a lawyer throughout this entire process. Its a warning not a bestowment of rights that the police are holding back.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:58
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Lolie posted:I'll see if I can find the research. It wasn't about attitudes to Americans abroad, it was about attitudes towards the US as a nation. A huge amount of the negative attitudes related to what was perceived as "bullying" or unwarranted "interference" by the US in the affairs of other nations, including allied nations. The wikileaks leak of US embassy communications revealed that the Bush appointed US ambassador to NZ tried to stop a NZ government minister attending a fundraising screening of Fahrenheit 9/11 (which was pretty popular here) because he saw it as anti-American. I think the response of the politicians is pretty telling of a general attitude towards America. Luckily the current US ambassador is far better. quote:Opposition leader Phil Goff, who was foreign minister in Clark's left-leaning government, said Swindells only became ambassador because he was a contributor to then US president George W Bush's campaign.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:58
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the runs formula posted:Do you have a chart or graph of this so I can put it in a spreadsheet? This isn't the research I'm thinking of, but the Pew Research Centre does polls on global attitudes towards the US. The questions are kept consistent from year to year and cover both cultural and political issues. http://www.pewglobal.org/database/?indicator=4&mode=chart There's also a book based on this research which explores the issue of global opinion of the US, the beliefs underlying that opinion, and instances where that opinion diverges from reality. http://www.pewresearch.org/2006/05/09/the-problem-of-american-exceptionalism/ To give you a personal example of how insidious these attitudes can be, I was shocked that a suspect was taken alive - it's simply not what I've come to expect of US law enforcement.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:59
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Well, I've seen my share of law and order and
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Apr 21, 2013 03:00
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platedlizard posted:This has already been discussed. Not reading his Miranda rights doesn't mean that he doesn't have those rights. The initial interrogation isn't about getting evidence, it's about finding out if he has any other bombs rigged to go, or accomplices who are going to bomb things right now. It is a public safety issue. Likely he will get Miranda read to him when they actually question him in regards to the actual crime. I dunno, maybe I misread the article but from what I gathered they weren't going to apply the rights to him. Of course, this is probably the media being vague as usual and getting things wrong. I know that the rights don't technically have to be read to be in effect and he doesn't have these rights until the actual questioning begins. From what I read the issue is the part in regards to self incrimination since they are trying to find out if he is part of a greater terrorist group or acted alone since that is on the border between collecting evidence and public safety. But yeah, I think I just think that what I read was either misleading and poorly worded, or I just misunderstood what they were trying to say. Like I said, I wasn't concerned about the whole not saying it to him, but rather the idea of not applying the laws to him. As for him walking on the crime, I highly doubt that that would happen but you never know, stranger things have happened for stupid reasons. In any case, I admit that I was dumb in not understanding what they were actually doing, which is standard operating procedure. Really though, the treating them as enemy combatants things is just plain dumb. And trying to say that because they threw bombs and shot guns at the cops they are enemy combatants is also dumb. It isn't like normal criminals don't get into shootouts with the cops or even throw "bombs" at pursuing officers from time to time. (Though the throwing explosives thing is much, much rarer of an occurance). And really, unless the brothers intended to get into a huge firefight with the police for the sole sake of killing police officers rather than trying to escape, I hardly see how that is applicable to whether or not they are enemy combatants.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:05
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jadebullet posted:I dunno, maybe I misread the article but from what I gathered they weren't going to apply the rights to him. Of course, this is probably the media being vague as usual and getting things wrong. I know that the rights don't technically have to be read to be in effect and he doesn't have these rights until the actual questioning begins. From what I read the issue is the part in regards to self incrimination since they are trying to find out if he is part of a greater terrorist group or acted alone since that is on the border between collecting evidence and public safety. I'm going to have an aneurysm.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:06
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ClemenSalad posted:The police used a public safety exemption to this to ask about a narrow topic and ONLY about this topic, are there more bombs anywhere? Eh, that's debate able and involves trusting the government to a fair extent, Glen Greenwald's article goes over all this. Regardless, it won't make a difference in his conviction, but let's be honest, the reason they're doing this is because rights for terror suspects have become politicized. They could read him his rights first and then ask the questions, or if they fear co-conspirators they could ask the questions and then not try to use whatever he says then in court. Neither approach would be likely to make all that much difference because of all the other evidence, but still, the reason they're choosing this option over others is because it scores Obama some political points and keeps McCain from scoring others. And that is actually a real problem.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:07
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:Good, smart analysis: This was very interesting. Thanks for the link.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:08
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I'm not happy, guys.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:08
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They aren't being treated as enemy combatants.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:08
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I just woke up, was he read his Miranda rights?Tamerlane posted:I'm not happy, guys. Might need a new username. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 21, 2013 03:09
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Blimpkin posted:I just woke up, was he read his Miranda rights? As far as I know those rights only need to be read to people who are named miranda
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Apr 21, 2013 03:10
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Wildlife Analysis posted:They aren't being treated as enemy combatants. Well no, but that doesn't stop some people for calling for it, such as the 3 representatives. Also, I apologize for causing such turmoil. This thread seems to be very angry and I had no intent to make it angrier.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:12
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Cue the Fox News bullshit that Islam itself is the enemy entity and thus they should be classified as enemy combatants. I'm not kidding, you will hear this in a few weeks tops. E: not in yospos, my b
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Apr 21, 2013 03:12
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/20/tsarnaev-brothers-dagestan-boston-bombings Article on Tamerlan's time in Dagestan
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Apr 21, 2013 03:12
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Blimpkin posted:I just woke up, was he read his Miranda rights? He actually read their police their Miranda rights, so on that technicality, he will go scott free.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:12
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ClemenSalad posted:I'm going to have an aneurysm. Seriously, the police are just asking him if there are any immediate threats to the public which they can do prior a formal arrest. After they determine there aren't any stray pipe bombs or whatever they had laying about the neighbourhood because they dropped them or something, then they read the Miranda rights and he gets his phone call. It's not like he is being denied rights or anything, just that it's been determined there could be a threat to public safety and they are postponing the Miranda caution. The media, on the other hand, are making it look like he's going to be shipped off to Gitmo for some waterboarding next week judging from how they are explaining this.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:13
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Blimpkin posted:I just woke up, was he read his Miranda rights? If the first Tamerlane didn't ruin it, a second one killing like 4 people won't.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:14
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Justin Godscock posted:The media, on the other hand, are making it look like he's going to be shipped off to Gitmo for some waterboarding next week judging from how they are explaining this. And they're for or against that waterboarding.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:14
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Justin Godscock posted:the police are just asking him I thought he was uncommunicative in serious condition in a hospital, how are they asking him anything?
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Apr 21, 2013 03:14
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jadebullet posted:Well no, but that doesn't stop some people for calling for it, such as the 3 representatives. Only because every page/half of Facebook has someone posting "I HEARD HE WASN'T READ HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS THATS UNCOBSTITUTIONAL I GUESS NEXT STEP IS NAZI AMERICA" and it's a very tired subject at this point.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:15
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CLAM DOWN posted:I thought he was uncommunicative in serious condition in a hospital, how are they asking him anything? If he really can't speak, he sure can type and write. Or blink twice for no.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:16
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Geeze guys, just read the 66 pages of the thread. What are you? Stupid dummies that can't move their field of vision across their monitor for about an hour? Frankly I'm tired of typing for five minutes so why don't you just go do it yourself. You lazy stupid jerk. GOD! I hope this guy is grounded for life with no supper.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:18
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Blimpkin posted:Might need a new username.  on behalf of all surviving Tamerlanes, I
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Apr 21, 2013 03:19
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Legin Noslen posted:Geeze guys, just read the 66 pages of the thread. What are you? Stupid dummies that can't move their field of vision across their monitor for about an hour? Frankly I'm tired of typing for five minutes so why don't you just go do it yourself. You lazy stupid jerk. GOD! Or read just like, one, since this is discussed on drat near every page. Or better yet, have at least a cursory knowledge of American law. Hell, it can be from Law and Order, since there are episodes where they convict without a Miranda warning all the time.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:20
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loving Reddit: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...71_story_1.html When crowdsourcing fails utterly
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Apr 21, 2013 03:20
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Legin Noslen posted:Geeze guys, just read the 66 pages of the thread. What are you? Stupid dummies that can't move their field of vision across their monitor for about an hour? Frankly I'm tired of typing for five minutes so why don't you just go do it yourself. You lazy stupid jerk. GOD!
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Apr 21, 2013 03:21
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Legin Noslen posted:Geeze guys, just read the 66 pages of the thread. What are you? Stupid dummies that can't move their field of vision across their monitor for about an hour? Frankly I'm tired of typing for five minutes so why don't you just go do it yourself. You lazy stupid jerk. GOD!
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Apr 21, 2013 03:24
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Vhak lord of hate posted:Only because every page/half of Facebook has someone posting "I HEARD HE WASN'T READ HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS THATS UNCOBSTITUTIONAL I GUESS NEXT STEP IS NAZI AMERICA" and it's a very tired subject at this point. Sadly, my facebook is just the opposite. Mine is full of posts demanding that he doesn't deserve rights because the is an "Al Kaida terrorist muslim." Oh, and one guy saying that this is just the USSR getting revenge upon us for winning the cold war. But yes, I see how this could be aggravating.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:24
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:loving Reddit: Hahaha I love that quote. "I’d take thousands of people over a select few very smart investigators any day" Yeah, because a thousand people who have no idea what they're doing are way more effective than the actual loving investigators. I'd like that applied to any other field. 'I'd take thousands of people over a select few very smart surgeons any day'
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Apr 21, 2013 03:28
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:loving Reddit: I am sure that this is exactly what the investigators needed. A bunch of people on the internet spamming their inbox with theories and other poo poo like that while people played armchair CSI. Wouldn't this just flood the information pool and potentially cause crucial evidence and statements to actually be missed in amongst the sea of bad theories.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:28
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jadebullet posted:Sadly, my facebook is just the opposite. Mine is full of posts demanding that he doesn't deserve rights because the is an "Al Kaida terrorist muslim." Oh, and one guy saying that this is just the USSR getting revenge upon us for winning the cold war. But yes, I see how this could be aggravating. I see you didn't read the OP either.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:29
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jadebullet posted:Sadly, my facebook is just the opposite. Mine is full of posts demanding that he doesn't deserve rights because the is an "Al Kaida terrorist muslim." Oh, and one guy saying that this is just the USSR getting revenge upon us for winning the cold war. But yes, I see how this could be aggravating. This may come as a surprise but no one gives a poo poo what people on your facebook are saying.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:30
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:loving Reddit: It's nice to see that those sites are being brought to task. Then you have poo poo like this : http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417978,00.asp
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Apr 21, 2013 03:34
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Hey guys I heard some woman named Miranda said they were right, but some said that they were enemies and combative? Or something? Sorry I can't loving read. Also White Hat's truther post on Twitter makes sense in light of what his mother (supposedly) said in the article. Did Tamerlan influence Dzhokhar into truther nonsense or was it a craxiness feedback loop between them?
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Apr 21, 2013 03:36
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HackerJoeGuy posted:It's nice to see that those sites are being brought to task. Then you have poo poo like this : I like how the Washington Post article mentions how Reddit actually hindered the investigation because of all the useless leads they kept phoning in.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:37
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HackerJoeGuy posted:It's nice to see that those sites are being brought to task. Then you have poo poo like this : Is this a loving troll. You could post that on the Onion.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:44
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