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It's not worth the risk. He'd rather play it safe, hunker down, and have the alien move around, even if he'd prefer it to stay there, than to overwatch and risk getting shot. Unless the alien can flank that very turn, overwatching in full cover is extremely safe and you can always think of a new plan next turn. And if the alien can flank that turn, he has hosed up and usually admits so.
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Apr 23, 2013 08:25
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Dear mother of God, I just realised that the Council mission Beagle just played (Live #3) is the same map as a regular abduction mission! Why can't they just do that with every map - have numerous entry points so we have more ways of playing the same map! Bastards!
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Apr 23, 2013 08:40
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chiasaur11 posted:The thing is, he's still using overwatch sometimes. Often even. Sometimes even to cut the risk of a flank. Fewer things can go wrong if you hunker down instead of trying to pin aliens down with overwatch. It's a handy trick to know if you screw up and need to throw a hail mary to save a dude, but fights are so stacked against you early in impossible that it's just not worth the risk in a lot of cases. Neither is really a great proposition, but I'd rather let aliens shuffle around a couple turns while I wait for an opportunity than risk a panic chain because a sectoid decides to fry my guy through full cover when I could've been hunkered down.
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Apr 23, 2013 08:44
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He's also mentioned that he avoids the overwatch cheese of overwatching a guy you have a flank on in order to make him do nothing at all, because that's cheesy and dumb.
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Apr 23, 2013 08:47
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Jabor posted:He's also mentioned that he avoids the overwatch cheese of overwatching a guy you have a flank on in order to make him do nothing at all, because that's cheesy and dumb. Right, I thought he mentioned that at some point. Thanks.
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Apr 23, 2013 08:53
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chiasaur11 posted:Other times he mentioned that he needed the aliens not to move so he could pull a flank off, but he didn't even mention the overwatch trick. Plus, if you've grenaded a pack into the open and are pinning from good cover, you can leave them harmless with their balls in the breeze until the rest of the team can re-position with just one overwatch. If you're talking about the overwatch freeze bug, I think he doesn't do that just because he doesn't want to essentially cheat by abusing an exploit. The flank-freezing thing is widely regarded to be an unintended behaviour, and the game sort of lacks challenge if you force enemies to stand still and not return fire while you shoot them to death. e:f,b by like half an hour I need to refresh threads before I reply to them
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Apr 23, 2013 09:19
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Beagle is a man's man and shuns weanie exploits. Pretty sure he doesn't like ghost armour either because it's stupidly broken.
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Apr 23, 2013 10:38
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I totally suck at this game  I've had the alien base mission for ages and I just can't seem to beat it, even on Easy. I'll walk forward into some cover and then BAM six mutons and a cyberdisc and then half my squad of six gets wiped out. I'm rolling with two assault guys with plasma rifles, two heavies (both with two rockets per mission), a support that can use the medkit 3 times and a sniper so this seems like it should be a breeze. At least it's still great fun.
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Apr 23, 2013 10:52
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If you see something you can't handle, PULL BACK and let them come to you.
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Apr 23, 2013 11:23
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It's so tense and so satisfying to complete harder missions with a rookie squad. My were out for the month after the DLC battleship mission (which they stomped.) I was left with all rookies and one heavy (on Impossible) to handle a very hard abduction mission. Thankfully it was on the freight-depot map, with abundant cover... and I didn't get those massive spawn clusters.
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Apr 23, 2013 14:00
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Isn't the odds of getting hit the same as firing vs hunkering in full cover? And the only difference the immunity to crits? Seems it might be better to press your luck and dps them down before they hurt you or break your cover. But that's just me. GMG finally gave me a replacement cd key, so I haven't even sat down to play the game.
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Apr 23, 2013 14:09
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Phobophilia posted:Isn't the odds of getting hit the same as firing vs hunkering in full cover? And the only difference the immunity to crits? Hunker down doubles the defense bonus provided by cover
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Apr 23, 2013 14:15
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Phobophilia posted:Isn't the odds of getting hit the same as firing vs hunkering in full cover? And the only difference the immunity to crits? No, not at all. IIRC it's 35% on Impossible for a sectoid to hit you in full cover, and if you hunker down your cover bonus of 40% doubles to 80%, meaning the sectoid's chance to hit is now -5% (though the game fudges this number to 1% so there is always an extremely slim chance you will be hit). You're safe enough while hunkered down that you can use this tactic to draw fire, while if you're simply standing behind full cover you're just asking to die.
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Apr 23, 2013 14:16
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Im on my first playthrough of XCOM. Yesterday I think I got my first buged run. I set down in a square cemetery with very sparse full cover on the sides and some graves providing half cover leading up to something that looked like mausoleums. I never got to explore those tombs as my fist turn promplty triggered three or four packs of mutons. Thank the gods I put my sniper team behind the available full cover. The rest of the team was already far along in ranking and mostly equiped with the carepace armors so they could take a hit. Smokescreen was my best friend followed by my doubletap sniper. A full pack of mutons got ported right in front of my overwatched squad for some hillarious insta kill actions (yay easymode). I survived with only one KIA. Pleased with the end result I scanned for new missions. UFO landing spotted! Right, Lets investigate. At the time I failed to see the revelvance of the UFO-O designation on the UFO but I belive I just stumbled myself into the final mission. I'v only progressed up to the fist rooms into the UFO, but I got to set up some sweet killzones on the packs waiting in the fisrt hallways. Two overwatched snipers with two assaults and a heavy covering both entrances in overwatch and our rookie assault member on runnign bait duty. Im curriuos how the remainder of this mission will fare. Amplicon fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 14:20
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the glow posted:No, not at all. IIRC it's 35% on Impossible for a sectoid to hit you in full cover, and if you hunker down your cover bonus of 40% doubles to 80%, meaning the sectoid's chance to hit is now -5% (though the game fudges this number to 1% so there is always an extremely slim chance you will be hit). You're safe enough while hunkered down that you can use this tactic to draw fire, while if you're simply standing behind full cover you're just asking to die.
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Apr 23, 2013 14:23
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Ravenfood posted:I thought the tooltip for hunker down was wrong and doesn't double your defensive bonus. Instead, it gives you a +20. I haven't read anything to that effect anywhere, do you have a link? I generally try to check things ingame before posting about them, but in this case I can't as I reformatted recently and haven't yet reinstalled the game. edit: I googled a bit for "xcom hunker down bug", "xcom hunker down tooltip" etc and all I can find is stuff from various sources (UFOPaedia, 2K Games forum, other forums) apparently confirming that it works as advertised the glow fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 14:29
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Death by Cranes posted:Dear mother of God, I just realised that the Council mission Beagle just played (Live #3) is the same map as a regular abduction mission! Aren't all of the council mission maps also abduction maps?
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Apr 23, 2013 15:12
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chiasaur11 posted:Just curious if not using the trick is an honor thing, or forgetting, or just not figuring it's worth the risk. Yeah he considers the flanked overwatch thing a bug and refuses to use that. Can't remember where he said that but it's definitely the case. edit: whoops there was another page so efb
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Apr 23, 2013 16:00
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Dr. Stab posted:Aren't all of the council mission maps also abduction maps? I'm not sure if the vip limo rescue and the general rescue have abduction counterparts. Then again, even with the amount of time I've put into the game, with how short abductions last it's entirely reasonable that I've missed a few.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:11
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FoolyCharged posted:I'm not sure if the vip limo rescue and the general rescue have abduction counterparts. Then again, even with the amount of time I've put into the game, with how short abductions last it's entirely reasonable that I've missed a few. According to this: http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Maps_%28EU2012%29 The one with the general is also a terror mission (apparently the only one that isn't also an abduction mission), and the limo one is an abduction mission.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:28
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If they add more maps, I hope they add some residential type settings. The urban ones there are are all businesses of some sort. Give me a terror mission in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:41
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"Oh great, wasted a reaction shot on a loving dog again"
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Apr 23, 2013 16:45
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necrobobsledder posted:"Oh great, wasted a reaction shot on a loving dog again" This would add an interesting wrinkle, actually. Make it a will save on whether or not a soldier's overwatch triggers on non-targets.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:54
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I'm surprised that they don't have a proper farm map, considering how iconic that setting was to the first X-COM and to alien fiction in general.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 16:57
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Nothing but half cover fences, walls and hay bales until you reach the barn full of Berserkers.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:14
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'm surprised that they don't have a proper farm map, considering how iconic that setting was to the first X-COM and to alien fiction in general. You can see that exact theme in both the XCOM prototype videos, in some interview Jake Solomon said that it played like poo poo with the multiple levels of the farmhouse and all the windows so they trashed it.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:29
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I have a question about the alien base. My last run on classic failed because I stalled way too long, but I also had way more panic going on than I'm used to. If the base mission resets panic, is it best to save it up until it's needed or just run it as usual?
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Apr 23, 2013 17:32
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If you buy the DLC from Amazon, I assume it just gives you a Steam code? I want to take advantage of the tradein offer they have going right now, but it doesn't look like they sell Steam wallet cards to get the DLC directly through Steam.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:55
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'm surprised that they don't have a proper farm map, considering how iconic that setting was to the first X-COM and to alien fiction in general. A few of the ufo landing/crash missions have a ton of farm assets, but they are all right outside the map boundary.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:59
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Orgophlax posted:If you buy the DLC from Amazon, I assume it just gives you a Steam code? I want to take advantage of the tradein offer they have going right now, but it doesn't look like they sell Steam wallet cards to get the DLC directly through Steam. I bought Slingshot on Amazon and used a steam code to activate it. You should be good.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:03
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Strategic Tea posted:I have a question about the alien base. My last run on classic failed because I stalled way too long, but I also had way more panic going on than I'm used to. If the base mission resets panic, is it best to save it up until it's needed or just run it as usual? It's like satellites. Save it for the end of a month or when you are running really close to losing countries.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:06
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I've beaten a game of I/I once myself, and had probably 20 or more failed starts aside from that. But since watching Beagle's first uncut video of the burger joint, I've had 2 successful starts. The only thing I've been doing differently is using hunker down and elevation more to my advantage, and in general just playing more cautiously and breaking line of sight to the aliens to be extra cautious. Thanks for the tips Beagle!
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Apr 23, 2013 18:46
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Subra posted:You can see that exact theme in both the XCOM prototype videos, in some interview Jake Solomon said that it played like poo poo with the multiple levels of the farmhouse and all the windows so they trashed it. I think it was the door-to-door tedium of having to clear every room in the house that did it. That, plus the crappy cover situation you got trying to advance across a room from ottoman to ottoman.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:58
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Man, I wish Firaxis would at the very least give us a map editor so we could bulk out the maps we get to see. It's kinda tiresome seeing rainy street for the nth time. 
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Apr 23, 2013 19:19
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Two thing things I'd like to see come from an expansion would be proper voice sets for the different nationalities and a random map generator replacing the static ones.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:23
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ImpulseDrive posted:Two thing things I'd like to see come from an expansion would be proper voice sets for the different nationalities and a random map generator replacing the static ones. From the way Solomon talked about random maps I don't think it is ever going to happen. He said he pushed for it over and over but eventually had to give in, they could not get it to work well enough. What we could use is a map editor and easy integration of downloading and rating user maps.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:32
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Edgecase posted:I think it was the door-to-door tedium of having to clear every room in the house that did it. That, plus the crappy cover situation you got trying to advance across a room from ottoman to ottoman. Room clearing is a thing that probably works best in a real time with pause system like 7.62. That way you can do efficient breaching and clearing. Even an AP/TU system works better than XCOM's two action system for room clearing, which is I guess why they shied away from that aspect of the genre and only have much bigger arenas to fight in. It's still really satisfying for me to breach a store or UFO command room from multiple directions at once, though.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:35
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Captain Beans posted:What we could use is a map editor and easy integration of downloading and rating user maps. And if they did do that (which they totally should and is kind of a bummer that they haven't), they should include a way to just auto download all maps above certain vote thresholds or something, so you can just get a crapload of maps without thinking about them or spoiling them. edit: Crap, double post, sorry, I meant to edit.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:37
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Captain Beans posted:From the way Solomon talked about random maps I don't think it is ever going to happen. He said he pushed for it over and over but eventually had to give in, they could not get it to work well enough. I guess anything's better than what we've got. The game's biggest flaw for me is that it doesn't take long to learn the general layout of the maps along with where the enemies usually spawn.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:39
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:And if they did do that (which they totally should and is kind of a bummer that they haven't), they should include a way to just auto download all maps above certain vote thresholds or something, so you can just get a crapload of maps without thinking about them or spoiling them. Well okay, if you wanted MLP's settings and the Alien Space Jockey rooms all you had to do was ask. 
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Apr 23, 2013 19:45
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