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C-C-C-oval office posted:Well, it is a high quality game, it's fun, great art and music, and one payment gets you the full game, that's exactly what people like you were asking for, they could have made it free and charged for all the crab upgrades to make your crab a better crab, but they did exactly what you wanted and decided to sell it at a premium price, and it's not selling well. You're telling developers how they should sell you their games. They tell you it won't work and they have to go free to play with IAP to make money and you say that the market would be willing to pay for a complete game, when a game comes out that proves you wrong, I think he's entitled to a smidgen of sarcasm! Yes but what if people don't think its fun? I think that's the point people are trying to make. Everyone yelling "ITS GENIUS, BUY IT YOU PLEBES" isn't a good marketing tactic. You're not watching Arrested Development? *frustrated sigh* what did I do to live in such a world?
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Apr 24, 2013 20:21
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C-C-C-oval office posted:Well, it is a high quality game, it's fun, great art and music, and one payment gets you the full game, that's exactly what people like you were asking for, they could have made it free and charged for all the crab upgrades to make your crab a better crab, but they did exactly what you wanted and decided to sell it at a premium price, and it's not selling well. You're telling developers how they should sell you their games. They tell you it won't work and they have to go free to play with IAP to make money and you say that the market would be willing to pay for a complete game, when a game comes out that proves you wrong, I think he's entitled to a smidgen of sarcasm! It's dumb. I don't want to buy it because its dumb. It doesn't look fun to me. It looks dumb. It could be $5, $500, 99c, or freemium, and I wouldn't spend a dime on it because it looks dumb. I don't care about art or music assets or presentation or whatever. Maybe most people think it's dumb. You also missed my point where I admitted they're probably right that FTP makes more money but also that I don't care and it's not my job to make them any money
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Apr 24, 2013 20:21
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toxicsunset posted:It seems so bizarre to me that the response to poor sales is so often met with an attitude that the people are somehow wrong for not buying your thing instead of the problem being you didnt make a thing people want to buy. By the same token, isn't it bizarre to complain that devs are doing it wrong when their game is incredibly popular?
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Apr 24, 2013 20:21
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marshmonkey posted:By the same token, isn't it bizarre to complain that devs are doing it wrong when their game is incredibly popular? Yes, it is. I wouldn't have the audacity to say that freemium is the "wrong" way to do it. But I certainly am entitled to the right to say I don't like it and prefer games that don't operate that way.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:22
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C-C-C-oval office posted:Make your games for free, you don't deserve to make money because your precious games aren't perfectly masterpieces that bring tears to the eyes that play them. I think thats the extreme and if you believe its black and white like that then Shalinor might as well make us stop the discussion because its a complex issue and you really have no understanding of what makes a consumer purchase something if you believe that this is what the discussion is about.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:23
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Necroneocon posted:See this is why I bought your game. You're nice  ... anyways, pay no attention to the mod behind the curtain. Go about your business. This is kind of a derail, but it's a derail people enjoy discussing, so whatevs.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:23
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(This is a serious post as you are the only Games mod that hasn't probated me yet. Plus I did it to support a fellow female game designer! Lets smash the game dev patriarchy but thats another discussion for another time.)
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C-C-C-oval office posted:Make your games for free, you don't deserve to make money because your precious games aren't perfectly masterpieces that bring tears to the eyes that play them. I wouldn't mind paying $20 - $30 for a game if it actually was a game with lots of content, but that's just not what the App Store is about, the App Store is about toilet games and so no one wants to spend more than $1 for most games.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:25
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Since this subject has reared it's head again, the appannie site someone linked yesterday was interesting, it shows which games have IAP on the listing. I don't know if that info is available in the usual places people would look at the charts. At the current time 97 of the top 100 have IAP. In 50th is a messenger app and in 89th is a GPS locater app. The only actual game to feature in the top 100 grossing without IAP is Minecraft.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:26
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marshmonkey posted:By the same token, isn't it bizarre to complain that devs are doing it wrong when their game is incredibly popular? I think that anyone that produces a form of medium, be it a game, book, movie, etc should always have some sort of self-reflection on what they created so that they could make the next one even better, even if it is "incredibly popular". Not all of your feedback is going to be A++ quality from sane people, but once in a while someone is going to say something that makes you think about a new idea. Don't live in a vacuum.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:27
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El Hefe posted:I wouldn't mind paying $20 - $30 for a game if it actually was a game with lots of content, but that's just not what the App Store is about, the App Store is about toilet games and so no one wants to spend more than $1 for most games. Let me tell you about Battle Academy (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battle-academy/id499901136?mt=8) and the upcoming Panzer Corps: Allies....
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Apr 24, 2013 20:28
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Rusty posted:I would rather pay the $10 to be honest, but I realize that's not where the market is right now, so I just ignore free or cheap games with IAP. I guess whether it is the case or not, I can't help but feel the game is designed around IAPs. This is one thing, if any, that the Nimble devs can't ever be accused of. I play a lot of Nimble Quest and their IAP currency is tokens. I've never bought a single token and my stock of tokens just keeps going up even though I spend them fairly liberally. I'd guess that's why it's not doing as well as their other games - I have no incentive to spend any money on it (I did buy the gem doubler though). This is a pity because I'm not a fan of the Pay-For-The-Timer-To-Run-Down genre but that seems to be the genre that's the most successful. I do think that the Nimble devs are a bit too defensive in their responses sometimes but I guess when you're being successful and people are telling you to make games that won't make you any money that it is a bit frustrating.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:30
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Necroneocon posted:Let me tell you about Battle Academy (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battle-academy/id499901136?mt=8) and the upcoming Panzer Corps: Allies.... Ok that's one developer out of a billion, hopefully more join in their cause.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:31
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I'll also admit I'm apparently far from the average iOS customer. I hated angry birds, cut the rope, and like 99% of the popular iOS games. I like some of the kairosoft stuff. But if they made sequel to armadillo run as an iOS game I'd pay anything reasonable for it. The original was like $25, if I remember right, and was worth every penny. I'd have paid way more for bad piggies than it was priced at, since it was pretty close. Fazana posted:Since this subject has reared it's head again, the appannie site someone linked yesterday was interesting, it shows which games have IAP on the listing. I don't know if that info is available in the usual places people would look at the charts. Since I'm apparently not making this clear enough I'll try one last time, my point isn't that premium priced games can make more money than IAP games. It's obviously not the case. I'm just saying, ultimately, I enjoy games that are priced premium and designed to be played as such, more. Games designed around IAP just have a different "feel" to them that makes them less enjoyable to me than games priced more traditionally. This does not mean I think they make more money. I just don't particularly care what makes money, and don't see why "is this profitable for the person who made it" should be on my checklist of things that make me decide if I like or want to play a game. toxicsunset fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Apr 24, 2013 |
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Apr 24, 2013 20:31
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I think the big problem is people assuming that a consumer would/should buy a game based purely on its chosen pricing scheme rather than if it looks fun to them. Like I bought Ridiculous Fishing but not Crabitron, and even though freemium leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I got nimble quest (but avoided free games that look like unfun poo poo to me, like that frog game from the same guys). I just don't get why a game being freemium or not is supposed to be the deciding factor in whether or not I get it (or spend money on it).
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Apr 24, 2013 20:45
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Developer or customer, it totally doesn't matter what your opinion is, at all. It's not some sort of cause or vote where eventually it will click and everyone will start spending 10 bucks on iPhone games, making larger paid games viable. The free to play timer game vs 99 cents toilet game vs 3-4 bucks slightly bigger game (but only if editors choice) is pretty much set in stone at this point. It's just a result of how App Store discoverability works. Changes are up to Apple, but I think they're good with just editors picks for discovery. Trying a slightly larger 5 dollar game in future, but my point is that even if its successful, it's not going to change the landscape. Also as an aside "Just make a great product" is a statement I will never ever get tired of making fun of.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:01
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Kepa posted:Developer or customer, it totally doesn't matter what your opinion is, at all. Obviously quality products can still fail (arrested development). You can't deny though that they're the exception, not the rule. My only point was that it seems wrong, when your product fails, to immediately assume the problem is in either A. the pricing model or B. the consumers instead of first considering the quality. The number of And I realize it doesn't matter what my opinion is. It doesn't matter what anyone's individual opinion on anything is, but people are going to continue stating them because that's human nature and the purpose of a discussion.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:05
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Greyman posted:I do think that the Nimble devs are a bit too defensive in their responses sometimes but I guess when you're being successful and people are telling you to make games that won't make you any money that it is a bit frustrating. A response to what? There was no criticism of a nimblebit game, there was no discussion about IAP. It was an utterly random "See, games without IAP are destined to fail"  justification prompted by someone saying a game was good. Who's telling them to make games differently? Who's telling them not to make money? Half this thread loves their games and I'm sure they make plenty of money. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to like their games or can't talk about not liking their games. There are excellent games that cost money, don't have IAP, and do well. It's much easier to get downloaded and make money with a lovely IAP game than with a lovely 99 cent or 3 dollar game so I see why people gravitate towards that model. I think a demo would have the same effect but that's just me... And again, Crabitron just doesn't look fun to me. I'm not going to go buy something I don't want to play in order to make some fruitless stand against IAP.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:06
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Make a product that you think is fun to play yourself and see (hope) if anyone else likes it!
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Apr 24, 2013 21:06
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This thread is suddenly very, very full of heated  , especially considering the mostly casual nature of iOS gaming. I understand the goon politics of this (to a degree) but this is really just a bunch of thinly veiled snark.From the outside looking in, all I can say is, I'm gonna wait for this to cool down and go play some more Crabitron.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:12
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Armed Neutrality posted:A response to what? There was no criticism of a nimblebit game, there was no discussion about IAP. It was an utterly random "See, games without IAP are destined to fail"
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Apr 24, 2013 21:16
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VarrosAnon posted:go play some more Crabitron. STOP FEEDING THE FLAMES!!!
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Apr 24, 2013 21:17
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I don't mind most games with IAP, but I refuse to spend money on IAP that's just an obvious cash grab. To me an unacceptable IAP would be anything related to a timer and currencies not available through gameplay. Totally acceptable IAP would be anything cheat related (i.e. coin or XP doubler) or expansions. I don't mind paying for a game that has IAP as long as it adds to the game significantly or reduces the need to grind. For example I was really looking forward to Iron Man 3 until I read the preview of it, but I bought everything for GoF 2, the XP doubler for Block Fortess, and everything for Bug Heroes and Bug Heroes Quest. These 3 games really hit the nail on the head in regards to content per dollar and I am more than happy to support the developers, especially Foursaken, these guys are doing it right. They charge a fair price for their game, and all their IAPs add to the game significantly (like new characters in BH) or are attainable in game if you want to grind (like minerals in Block Fortress).
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Apr 24, 2013 21:21
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Uhhh what the gently caress I feel guilty for being first to mention Crabitron. Crabitron is a game that I enjoy so spend money on it thanks. Also buy me a crabitron title because this loving tiny tower one is starting to grate on me.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:26
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Normally I hate IAP based around speeding up timers and stuff because it defeats the point but then I had to get a special frog to gently caress my other frogs and I hadn't scraped together enough special currency in game. I guess what I'm saying is that it's stupid to make up these rules for yourself and force yourself to stick with them. There are too many variables to "fun" and "value" and all that so it's basically entirely subjective. Sure, it'd be cool for you if the app store was ruled by a set of laws that made IAP and entirely objective part of the pooping experience, but then I'd miss out on that sweet frog and have to wait two weeks for it to come back. Or maybe I wouldn't be able to hit things with lightning when I punch them.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:31
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radge posted:Also buy me a crabitron title because this loving tiny tower one is starting to grate on me. Jealous?
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Apr 24, 2013 21:32
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This thread just got real.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:33
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eeenmachine posted:Jealous? yes
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Apr 24, 2013 21:35
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marshmonkey posted:STOP FEEDING THE FLAMES!!! Pay $1.99 now to speed up this argument being over!
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Apr 24, 2013 21:38
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So how 'bout that Weed Farmer game?
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Apr 24, 2013 21:40
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Well, this is the first time I've gotten someone to buy me an av. Gonna wear it with pride.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:36
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Ummm... There goes my 9 year old avatar, I feel so violated. marshmonkey fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 24, 2013 |
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Apr 24, 2013 22:38
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marshmonkey posted:Ummm... I see problems on the horizon.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:39
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Crab people unite!
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Apr 24, 2013 22:39
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gently caress whoever is buying these crab avatars.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:42
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What weed game I love weed!
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Apr 24, 2013 22:43
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Stick Figure Mafia posted:So how 'bout that Weed Farmer game? Weed crabitron Fwiw: the crabitron face is goony as gently caress
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Apr 24, 2013 22:43
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 Can anyone tell me what the circled button does, in the above screenshot from Pixel People? Toggling it doesn't seem to have an immediate effect.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:46
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I just bought the poo poo out of Crabitron.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:48
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foobar posted:
Rotates the selected building if possible.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:48
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The Nimblebit Train game should be a subway system and combine both routing and building shops next to subway stops, like a combination of Pocket Planes and Tiny Tower. And then you could call it Micro Metro.
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