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Trasson posted:Beastmaster passes on Equip Whips to Berserkers. Equip Whips gives excellent Agility and Whips are great weapons, especially lategame, so all you people calling triple Berserker plus Beastmaster worse than Thief are crazy. Plus, releasing a Yellow Dragon is a free 25% Max HP damage on anything, which is massive, especially against Neo Exdeath. Well, technically Equip Whips only gives +1 Agility. However, given that it replaces the Berserker's innate -9 Agility, that's an effective +10 Agility. And yeah, whips are fantastic. Hit for full damage from the back row and have a chance to paralyze the target. Definitely worth consideration for a Berserker's passive. Bellmaker posted:The weakest team I think would be Thief/Berserker/Geomancer/Dragoon. No healing besides !Lancet, and !Terrain is outstandingly useless at times. I've done Thief/Berserker/Geomancer/Dancer as a self-imposed challenge once. Never again (at least, not of my own free will anyway).  MrAristocrates posted:Wait, when that infographic lists Monk, Berserker, Beastmaster, and Dancer as "infamous," does that mean it's a good party or a bad one? I didn't get the chance to use most of them last year. I believe that combination got called out as infamous in particular because the guy who runs the Fiesta each year had that as his party the year before. Crazy bastard managed to complete Fork Tower with it, too. If you want a vision of the past, imagine Omniscient casting Return after the Mage Masher's Mute fails to proc. Forever.
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May 9, 2013 21:31
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Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? By the way, Trasson, how did you beat Shinryu? I got lucky and having a white mage I cast blink on the whole party and I think berserked it, but I can't think of anyway to survive that with your party except a solid 99 elixers and RNG manipulation on the Dancing Dagger. What level did you finish at, anyway? I would have been so grind-happy with that team, I may never have left the basement of Bal with all the Object d'Arts.
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May 9, 2013 23:50
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? It's totally optional. I did it even though I had no casters because it's how you get the submarine.
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May 9, 2013 23:56
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? Anything that can be Berserked can be cheesed by a team with a Knight: Just make every party member except the Knight be at critical health, then have the Knight use Guard. Guard makes them immune to physical attacks, and Berserk forces the enemy to use their physical attack.
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May 10, 2013 00:26
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? Once you finish the Pyramid of Morre everything in the game is optional, you could easily just jump to the Final Dungeon.
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May 10, 2013 00:59
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glod posted:Anything that can be Berserked can be cheesed by a team with a Knight: Just make every party member except the Knight be at critical health, then have the Knight use Guard. Guard makes them immune to physical attacks, and Berserk forces the enemy to use their physical attack.  Seriously? Guard makes you IMMUNE to damage? I figured it would work like Cover and just have your knight take the hit for the other guy, I had NO idea it would work like that. Now I want a Knight in my next run so I can play with that, and not have to cast Blink or !Image every other roundDr Pepper posted:Once you finish the Pyramid of Morre everything in the game is optional, you could easily just jump to the Final Dungeon.  So much work last game, wasted. I had no idea that was all side quests, I thought for sure that you had to do all of that and get the submarine, even if you don't have a reason to go get Mime.
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May 10, 2013 01:06
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The spells you get for clearing Fork Tower are Flare and Holy; Meteo's in the Deep Sea Trench, and Leviathan's at Istory Falls. Fork Tower's also worth completing if you have a Knight and/or any of the mage jobs (Black, White, Red, Time, Summoner), because that's where the Defender knight sword and the Wonder Wand are. 
W.T. Fits fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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May 10, 2013 01:18
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The White Dragon posted:Even better would've just been to put $Toss on everyone The number one reason I hope for Samurai on normal mode playthroughs is to do this to Exdeath at the end, especially Neo XD. gently caress putting up with that poo poo, and given that it's instant, hits every target, does a lot of damage, and only costs a resource you're never gonna use again I legit think it's the quickest and most painless way to beat him (including having a Chemist make everybody godlike, which can take time and then you're still like single-target punching or w/e).
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May 10, 2013 01:22
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? Literally everything but the Pyramid is optional. Last year on my BM/TM/Ranger/Samurai run, I skipped everything but Fork Tower (for Flare) and the Trench (for Meteo). Only needed two tablets anyway.
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May 10, 2013 02:05
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Yeah really, I rarely give a poo poo about having more than 6 of the legendary weapons in a normal playthrough, much less a Fiesta where I can't even equip 75% of them.
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May 10, 2013 02:10
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Speaking of FF5, is there any word on when it's coming out on Android? I'm actually on my way to finishing up FF5 for the first time period and I'd like to try out a newer version of it now that I'm actually getting into it.
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May 10, 2013 02:16
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So is there any word on the status of the stream of Final Symphony since it's tomorrow? Is it decided that they won't have any stream at all?
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May 10, 2013 06:39
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:
Yep, Cover still happens even while the knight is Guarding, so any time anyone is attacked, they'll cover and nullify the physical attack. Just beware monster skills that appear to be physical since I'm not sure those count. Maybe someone else can clarify?
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May 10, 2013 07:27
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Jibo posted:Speaking of FF5, is there any word on when it's coming out on Android? I'm actually on my way to finishing up FF5 for the first time period and I'd like to try out a newer version of it now that I'm actually getting into it. It'll come out right after the FF4 port. 
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May 10, 2013 12:06
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Wait, is the Fork Tower optional? I thought you had to complete it, even though the only reward is, what, I want to say Meteo and Holy? Shinryu I needed lots of levels for. I ended up beating him at level 73. The odd level is to dodge Level 2 Old and Level 3 Flare. The extra damage and HP from levels were quite necessary. Shinryu hits hard and I could only use one Elixir per turn. The three best weapons for the task were the Brave Blade, Titan's Axe, and the Rune Blade, after adjusting for accuracy and defense. Bartz had the highest Strength so he got the Brave Blade. This meant no Two Handed, so he got one of the Aegis Shields. Lenna had the best Magic, such as it was, so she got the Rune Blade. I needed and Aegis Shield for Cara so I gave her an Ice Shield, if memory serves. Cara was the fastest, so she got to be a Knight. With the Defender/Aegis Shield combo, she'd be able to dodge a good deal of attacks heading at her. Finally, Faris was the odd one out. She got the Titan's Axe, double handed. Bartz and Cara got Running Shoes, while the other two got Coral Rings. I'd be starting every battle off rolling for the Aegis Shield's one in three magic block on Tidal Wave twice, but the extra speed was worth it. Shinryu basically came down to luck: luck that I'd hit and luck that he wouldn't use his really scary moves like Roulette, Maelstrom, or Big Guard. It was quite doable, though. Beating Neo Exdeath was actually a lot harder, but a huge part of that was the level difference. For kicks, I took Neo on with the Shinryu leveled team. There wasn't even a challenge. Doing twice as much damage and laughing off Almagest led to a much more boring battle.
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May 10, 2013 19:01
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glod posted:Yep, Cover still happens even while the knight is Guarding, so any time anyone is attacked, they'll cover and nullify the physical attack. Just beware monster skills that appear to be physical since I'm not sure those count. Maybe someone else can clarify?
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May 10, 2013 20:10
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Also you can still counter while Guarding
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May 10, 2013 20:12
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Oh, another thing about FFV iOS: when you start a new game, you get an achievement called "Customer Appreciation" 
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May 11, 2013 12:44
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Idioteque Dance posted:Oh, another thing about FFV iOS: when you start a new game, you get an achievement called "Customer Appreciation" They use those to see how many people buy it vs how many played it
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May 11, 2013 15:13
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Idioteque Dance posted:Oh, another thing about FFV iOS: when you start a new game, you get an achievement called "Customer Appreciation" "Please be excited."
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May 11, 2013 15:17
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Quick question about FF12: Is the International version a better experience than the US version? I want to play this game again, and thinking about doing International, but the job class thing sounds weird? I dunno.
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May 13, 2013 02:09
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Loving Life Partner posted:Quick question about FF12: Yes, it's pretty universally accepted as the definitive version of FF12. There are a ton of little tweaks that just make the game more enjoyable to play (not least of which is a fast-forward button to make traveling or fighting trash monsters painless). While each of your characters will be restricted to one class, the classes are structured so that you're better at doing that class' "thing" (hitting monsters or magic-nuking them or whatever) than you can ever get in vanilla. Plus, you can use quickenings without using up all of your MP, so I don't really find the game harder.
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May 13, 2013 02:19
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Is it generally the done thing to use ALL the characters in your party and give them all different classes? Because when I played the normal version I only used three really for the whole thing, but only having three class/ability sets sounds quite limiting. I forget if your characters gain levels even when they're not in the main party as well
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May 13, 2013 03:49
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They don't. That's why I couldn't really get into IZJS, even if it's objectively better. It's also harder to break the system over your knee, which I like a lot.
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May 13, 2013 03:49
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I think people typically have a "main three" that play off each other (tank/melee, ranged damage/black mage, support mage/healer), and a backup three that you can call in a pinch when you need some specific role. I never felt any pressure to level everybody equally, that would take forever. Edit: Just to disagree with Kyrosiris, I found the late-game of vanilla FFXII to be extremely boring with my "know everything, equip everything, do everything" characters. I'm a big fan of differentiation. a crisp refreshing Moxie fucked around with this message at 03:59 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 03:57
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I remember a few months back, I was reading up on the IZJS over at FFWiki, and the article mentions that the original game was intended to have a Job System, but the people in charge decided that might be too complicated for players, so they just made a single license board under the assumption that people would differentiate their party members on their own. Instead, everyone who played just had all six characters max out the license board and then complain that all the characters were the same. So when SE retooled it for the International version, they added the job system to force you to make choices that matter in the long run.
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May 13, 2013 04:07
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Which is a strange extreme to go to, given that FF5 and FFT don't really force you to make choices that matter in the long run. You can always change a character's job for a tricky spot or spend a couple hours rewriting someone's destiny in those games.
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May 13, 2013 04:11
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Which is a strange extreme to go to, given that FF5 and FFT don't really force you to make choices that matter in the long run. You can always change a character's job for a tricky spot or spend a couple hours rewriting someone's destiny in those games. Yeah, but then they also have the same problem as vanilla FF12 has: you can eventually just grind your way to everybody being exactly the same. I think picking six jobs and forcing you to stick with those jobs for the whole game was meant to harken back to the original Final Fantasy, where you had to create a party of four characters out of six potential choices.
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May 13, 2013 04:14
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Really, 12 IZJS is most akin to FF 1- you pick classes and play the game. People don't sit and lament that their FF1 Monk can't cast black magic or whatever. So perhaps saying IZJS has a "job system" is disingenuous, since it makes people think of 3/5/tactics. You have a choice of party composition, but it's not really a job system. Edit: beaten.
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May 13, 2013 04:15
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The problem is that the license board is just so easy to max out. In FFV and FFT, you CAN give everybody the same skills if you want to spend hours grinding, but a normal person will tend to focus each character on a smaller number of classes because of the amount of time required to master them. I guess it'd be difficult to balance, though, because if someone does hunts in FF12, they get a buttload of LP, and if they just do the story a license board balanced with hunts in mind means they'll feel like the game forces you to grind or is just very hard. Also, the normal job system limits what you can equip in terms of armor and abilities, so even though everyone in FFV or FFT can learn every single skill and equip the same set-ups, you have to pick a job for them which then limits what they can use. So the license board's problem isn't so much "Everybody learns everything!" as "Everybody learns everything and then has unrestricted access to it at all times!" Zonko_T.M. fucked around with this message at 06:59 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 06:56
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Zonko_T.M. posted:Also, the normal job system limits what you can equip in terms of armor and abilities, so even though everyone in FFV or FFT can learn every single skill and equip the same set-ups, you have to pick a job for them which then limits what they can use. So the license board's problem isn't so much "Everybody learns everything!" as "Everybody learns everything and then has unrestricted access to it at all times!" This is kind of what I was getting at. You can teach every character every skill in FF5 in theory, and you can even turn them into Bare/Travelers to benefit from every passive at once and equip any weapon/armor, but even then you have to pick two specific active skills they have access to at any given time. You can give every character every White and Black spell, but if you do you can't use any Time magic, Summons, or any of the physically-oriented special commands. FFT is even more limited than that, as there's no equivalent to the versatile starter job. I suppose it's true that FF12 is like FF1, but that seems like a strange way to go given the way Final Fantasy job systems have evolved since then, and it's not like it's some kind of special homage to a unique mechanic; like half the RPGs ever made probably work like FF1.
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May 13, 2013 07:17
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FF12 was so easy to max because there were spots where you could AFK the game and have your party kill easy low level mobs for LP. I remember my roommate at the time seeing me do it and saying "So you're not even playing the game at this point"
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May 13, 2013 07:34
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I found my enjoyment of FFXII's battle system rose exponentially when I used the gambit system in only three very basic ways: auto-steal, auto-attack, and auto-cure when below 15% HP (to cover for slow reaction time, basically). Otherwise, I manually controlled my entire party. It sort of sucked to have to manually restrict myself in such a way, but combined with the job system in IZJS, the way combat plays out is far more engaging with these limitations, and keeps me far more entertained.
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May 13, 2013 08:11
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:FF12 was so easy to max because there were spots where you could AFK the game and have your party kill easy low level mobs for LP. Yeah, in the Necrohol of Nabudis there's that one rare spawn that spawns adds but doesn't really do any damage itself, all you had to do was gambit your party to heal when low and only kill enemies with <3K HP and leave the game on overnight, you'd come back to level 99 characters and fill out the license board. edit: can you still do that in IZJS?
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May 13, 2013 15:40
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It still works in IZJS but its trickier to set up due to the jobs restricting abilities.
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May 13, 2013 19:11
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I actually just started playing IZJS and am having a lot more fun with it than I did vanilla XII (which I never finished). We'll see how long this lasts.
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May 14, 2013 04:52
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Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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May 14, 2013 08:21
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Friendly Factory posted:All jRPGs should have fastforward buttons. All. All games should have fast forward buttons. Even DMC is improved by Turbo Mode.
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May 14, 2013 08:24
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Coughing Hobo posted:I found my enjoyment of FFXII's battle system rose exponentially when I used the gambit system in only three very basic ways: auto-steal, auto-attack, and auto-cure when below 15% HP (to cover for slow reaction time, basically). Otherwise, I manually controlled my entire party. It sort of sucked to have to manually restrict myself in such a way, but combined with the job system in IZJS, the way combat plays out is far more engaging with these limitations, and keeps me far more entertained. I did this as well except I added buffs to the mix near the endgame since there are so goddamned many and recasting them every three minutes got old. I think XII is an amazing game that wasn't fully baked but you're right that it's more fun when you put yourself in control of the strategy of battle.
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May 14, 2013 10:32
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Also worth mentioning is that the International Zodiac version features two New Game+ modes, Strong Mode where all characters start at level 90 and Weak Mode where all characters are permanently at level 1. That said unlocking them requires beating the 100-level Trial Mode, and considering the last three fights are Yiazmat, Omega Mark XII and finally Judges Gabranth, Drace, Bergan, Zargabaath and Ghis simultaneously, you've probably done practically everything by then.
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May 14, 2013 11:27
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