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Jmcrofts posted:I don't think bane's bad though. You have to work to get in but his mixups are so dangerous once you do. His mixups are not that dangerous. His normals are very slow and get beat a lot. His Double Punch is safe and pretty good but it does projectile-level damage. Bane is a character with almost no options against zoning - literally none - that don't require either a) him activating his trait and it's associated cooldown with reduced offensive output and increased damage-taking or b) just outguessing his opponent (which nobody can do ALL the time, so he is going to take some damage). His knockdown game is pretty good if you're playing lower skill players but intermediates will have answers - if you think you're going to run the Bane Wakeup Triangle (Double Punch, Body Press, Master of Disguise starter) on a good player you'll be sorely mistaken as a lot of them have unstuffable moves that ignore armor *and the player isn't some random scrub who doesn't know this (I just described 90% of Injustice players)*. I'm not saying he's a horrible character and there's no point playing him, but the fact is that he's got real problems right now and I'm hopeful they fix him. If not, eh, there's always Batgirl. She looks fun.
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May 13, 2013 19:58
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Bane's oki game doesn't work on good players because... they know how to reversal? Not sure how that's different from any other character. Baiting reversals is a fact of life in every fighting game. As for having no options against projectiles, walking and dashing are pretty useful things to do. Not every character needs a move designed specifically for negating projectiles. The damage you take from chip and bad guesses is your payment in return for the reward of difficult to escape mixups.
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May 13, 2013 20:07
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Why would you guys bump lantern up? Hes really strong, but his damage isn't as high as the other S tier guys and his 50/50 stuff is blockable on reaction. He is the mid range king though and his b13 is one of the best footsie moves in the game.
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May 13, 2013 20:07
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Fingers McLongDong posted:He is the mid range king though and his b13 is one of the best footsie moves in the game. You got it right there. Playing GL right they should be scared to hit buttons midscreen, b13 if it wasn't for the ridiculousness of Superman f23 would be the best string in the game, he has fantastic zoning, options and gimmicks, the best f3 overhead in the game. Guy is just the total package.
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May 13, 2013 20:18
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Evil Canadian posted:You got it right there. Playing GL right they should be scared to hit buttons midscreen, b13 if it wasn't for the ridiculousness of Superman f23 would be the best string in the game, he has fantastic zoning, options and gimmicks, the best f3 overhead in the game. Guy is just the total package. Pretty much what I was going to say. He does everything well and I don't think he really has any glaring flaws. He's just solid all the way around and can work with just about any play style.
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May 13, 2013 20:22
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Yeah GL is fine in that tier list. I think Nightwing will eventually find himself higher on the list. He forces you to eat all of your meter pushblocking or using armor to get him off you. He's basically the Johnny Cage of Injustice but can also zone fairly well. As for Bane, I've seen what JMCrofts can do with him so i know he's dangerous. The problem with tier lists is that SOMEONE has to be on the bottom, but I honestly don't think there's a C tier at this point.
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May 13, 2013 20:25
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It's possible Bane is the worst character (haven't played Lobo so not sure about him), but he's not much worse than the rest of the mid tiers.
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May 13, 2013 20:38
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Bane is exactly where he should be in that list and all it takes is looking at anyone in any of those S tiers besides Wonder Woman to realize why. He's dangerous at lower skill levels but in tournament level play he's gonna lose matchups to characters like Superman and Black Adam 7-3 at least. Getting in is an absolute chore with him, and his one movement gimmick is hugely telegraphed and easily dealt with by all of those characters. He probably needs at least a way to cancel out of his charge, much like Grundy can cancel out of Walking Corpse. That would do worlds for his ability to approach.
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May 13, 2013 20:42
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Lobo is bad?  I haven't played him online yet but it seems like he has plenty of tools and highish damage. I guess I'm not very good and there could be something bad about his combo setups that I am totally oblivious to.
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May 13, 2013 20:44
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Dracula Factory posted:Lobo is bad? That's actually a pretty debateable choice in that tier list, people are saying REO had a meltdown because Lobo has very difficult executions of his combos for not a lot of damage. REO posted a big rant thread about it and everything - he was apparently going to main Lobo and got super disappointed (because playing top-tier characters is his religion). Edit: read below me for the much better scoop. I should have just kept my yapper shut and let one of the other posters answer...I was only vaguely familiar with the situation. My bad. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 20:50
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Dracula Factory posted:Lobo is bad? Lobo's only tool to help approach against zoning is the fact that his dash roll thing goes under high projectiles, which only helps out in a few cases. Also for some reason they decided his optimized combos should be stupid hard to do compared to other cast members. Hitting b3 after his dbf2~MB seriously feels like a one frame link, which is baffling when someone like Green Lantern can land Lantern's Might~MB, go make a sandwich, and come back in time to land their b3. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:That's actually a pretty debateable choice in that tier list, people are saying REO had a meltdown because Lobo has very difficult executions of his combos for not a lot of damage. REO posted a big rant thread about it and everything - he was apparently going to main Lobo and got super disappointed (because playing top-tier characters is his religion). Lobo's damage output is fine, but the problem lies in that the point where the execution is toughest in his one meter BnBs - the MB grab into b3 - causes you to lose a lot of damage when you whiff it and then eat a lot of damage because they wake up and hit you right after you whiff the b3. You can go for a safer alternative but then you give up a bunch of damage. Also his in close mixup (2 XX df1~d versus 21) requires his slow trait to be loaded every time and then Lobo to get in close. Shadow Ninja 64 fucked around with this message at 20:54 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 20:52
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Lobo is new so I wouldn't be surprised to see him move around the tier list.
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May 13, 2013 21:16
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Evil Canadian posted:Also IMO Shazam is the worst character in the game. Really? Tell me more... I've been trying a bit to use him but haven't felt the groove happening. DBF motions are so weird to me, and having to confirm into them for his command throw hasn't been the best experience. strangemusic fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 21:39
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:Hitting b3 after his dbf2~MB seriously feels like a one frame link, which is baffling when someone like Green Lantern can land Lantern's Might~MB, go make a sandwich, and come back in time to land their b3. No way is it harder than landing a b3 after hawkgirls 123. But there's no reason for either of those to be as tight as they are, its ridiculous.
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May 13, 2013 21:43
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Great Beer posted:No way is it harder than landing a b3 after hawkgirls 123. But there's no reason for either of those to be as tight as they are, its ridiculous. It absolutely is harder. When I do Hawkgirl's 123 b3 and just mash wildly on b3 I still get it like half the time. If I try the same thing with Lobo I get it like 20% of the time. There's also far less of a delay between 123 b3 for Hawkgirl than there is between grab~MB b3 for Lobo so it's easier to find a rhythm in the Hawkgirl example. People on TYM have found visual cues that apparently help make the Lobo combo more consistent, but my base point still was that he's spending a bar to get the opportunity to land that b3, so why did they feel the need to make the timing window so tight when other characters like GL, Nightwing, Superman, Batman, etc. can all spend a bar and then land a b3 with no difficulty involved? The only character I can think of with a similarly tight MB special into b3 is Black Adam but that guy gets 45% meterless with trait anyway so it doesn't hurt him as much.
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May 13, 2013 21:49
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I like how Tom Brady gets a lot of flak for being, well, Tom Brady. The moment his Tier list comes out though? Everyone pays attention. Edit: LOL @ Hawkgirl being higher tier than Ares, Joker, Shazam, Harley Quinn, Lex Luthor, Bane and Lobo
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May 13, 2013 22:36
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AndyElusive posted:I like how Tom Brady gets a lot of flak for being, well, Tom Brady. He's a shitlord but (for now) he's one of the most knowledgeable people out there for Injustice. Plus REO.
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May 13, 2013 22:37
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Catwoman is clearly S+. Really though, I wonder why they say Doomsday is so good? I find him very, very easy to beat.
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May 13, 2013 23:08
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gannyGrabber posted:Catwoman is clearly S+. You probably haven't played a good Doomsday, then. If they know how to apply offensive pressure and don't just constantly try to unblockable you like an idiot he's probably the most overwhelming rushdown character in the game.
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May 13, 2013 23:22
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gannyGrabber posted:Catwoman is clearly S+. Are you on xbox? I'll play you sometime if so to try to prove thier point  I'm phone posting or I'd go into detail but basicall doomsday moves very fast, has a special that is very hard to block that gives knockdown, and has specials and strings that leave him at + frames so you can't push buttons when he gets in. Fixed spelling hurrr Fingers McLongDong fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 23:24
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I'm phone posting or I'd go into detail but basicall doomsday moves very fast, has a special that is very hard to block that gives knockdown, and has specials and strings that leave him at + frames so you can push buttons when he gets in. I'm sure Fingers means "can't push buttons when he gets in". Also it could be said about most characters, but good Doomsdays are difficult to beat. Especially when they start rushing your poo poo down.
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May 13, 2013 23:28
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lovely player here, looking to get my rear end kicked while I learn characters. XBL is InterstellarOwl 
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May 13, 2013 23:57
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Here is an interesting fact about Batman's parry it can be queued while blocking a string. So what does this mean for you as batman? Block and interupt. Also, most of flashes skills are completely negated by batman's parry. I think his flying overhead, which is his sonic punch or whatever, gets stuffed by it too. I played a match yesterday and it completely shuts Flash down. Also, out of all the match ups for Batman, I hate fighting GL, Grundy, and catwoman. Batman really doesn't have an answer to pressure besides his parry. Unfortunately it doesn't parry lows or jumping attacks.
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May 14, 2013 00:05
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Doomsday also has a really tight b3 combo with df2 MB, d2, b3. I just want to know why Lex got ranked above anyone, that character has nothing going for him.
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May 14, 2013 00:07
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Doomsday rushdown is inferior to Catwoman's, but the Patriarchy just refuses to accept it. And sadly, FingersMcLD, I am on PSN, or I would be more than happy to back up all my boasting!
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May 14, 2013 00:07
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AndyElusive posted:Edit: LOL @ Hawkgirl being higher tier than Ares, Joker, Shazam, Harley Quinn, Lex Luthor, Bane and Lobo Hawkgirl being that high is probably due to two factors: zoning and movement. Right now, zoning is strong in Injustice, and Hawkgirl has slow but large projectiles that allow her to play the long range game and cover some important angles. Her flight trait complements that by letting her be in portions of the screen that a lot of the cast have a tough time doing anything about. Her midscreen damage is lacking, but she gets good damage in the corner, and her projectiles, MB Mace Charge, and MB Mace Throw can all help her push characters into the corner. In any event, I forgot to say this before, but people shouldn't be too hung up on this tier list. For one, both of the players admit this is really early and that plenty can (and probably will) change as people explore characters more and discover more and more dirtiness. Remember day 1 with the Sinestro players bemoaning the death of their character after he received nerfs from the pre-release final build? Now they're finding dirty, potentially inescapable resets and setups into his MB Arachnid unblockable and suddenly he's back in the realm of viability. That certainly could happen with anyone else in the bottom of the list, but as things stand right now, it's clear that those characters are lacking compared to the ones up in the S and A tiers in the list. The other thing is, quite frankly, almost no one in this thread is really the target audience for such a list. Tier lists that are aimed at the highest level of play break down when you drop down to more intermediate skill levels because people drop things and/or can't apply all the necessary strategy and tech to make the matchups act like they would in high level. Look at Harley, for example. Harley's zoning isn't as scary as near anyone else's because the damage on most of it is weak, and her approach is bad because her forward dash is lame and her Silly Slide special is only cancelable into Tantrum Stance. Her mixup suffers because her only overheads are f3, f2, and the second hit of f13, all of which are fairly slow and have distinctly-telegraphed animations. If you can't block f2 on reaction, though? Suddenly her mixup between f2 and b2 is scary because she has an actual high/low game that goes into 40% meterless and forces you to recover standing into another high/low mixup. Tournament players are going to block that f2 on reaction basically every time, but people at our skill level aren't, and that changes the entire scope of the matchup. I guess the long and short of it is you should look at the list, try to understand why characters are where they are, but don't rely on it as gospel at this early stage in the game.
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May 14, 2013 00:10
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AndyElusive posted:
Hawkgirl is the anti-Ares. The only character I haven't taken down with him at all actually. The only one on that list that should be above Hawkgirl in some way is Luthor, his charge is so fast. It's great for reversals.
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May 14, 2013 00:49
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Hawkgirl also benefits from a lot of polarizing matches in her favor vs higher tier characters like Killer Frost or Grundy. She'll at the least end up something like a strong counterpick character, where someone like Harley may never find her place.
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May 14, 2013 01:07
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The iOS unlock thread has been updated. Only one portrait left to unlock in 10 days. I'll likely update all the logins once I get that done, but for now the last updated one has been updated again.
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May 14, 2013 01:07
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Truth be told I was mostly laughing about Hawkgirl being higher than Harley and Luthor while also chuckling at how low Lobo is. The character just came out a few days ago and has barely had any time to be fully explored! Anyways, I haven't played in any Injustice tournaments nor do I play against them online since the majority of people I fight are Ranked Mode or Goons, so like SN64 said this list means jack poo poo to me. But for those wondering I would have included Harley and Luthor alongside Hawkgirl in A Tier. Not sure if I would put Bane lower than Joker either but I would mostly base my opinion on what dudes like SN64 and Jmcrofts say about him.
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May 14, 2013 01:35
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Tier lists are one of the many poisons the fighting game community at large likes to gorge itself on. I'm just glad this game's well-made enough that the power gap is obviously unintended and might even be patched out.
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May 14, 2013 01:40
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:Green Lantern Combo Compendium I really hate the timing on the 2 XX OR, so I came up with a variation that winds up being the same damage. LM~MB b3 j3 22 XX OR~MB 223 XX LM (40%, two meters, opposite)
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May 14, 2013 01:40
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Lurdiak posted:Tier lists are one of the many poisons the fighting game community at large likes to gorge itself on. I'm just glad this game's well-made enough that the power gap is obviously unintended and might even be patched out. ...You think the gap in tiers is INTENTIONAL in some games?
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May 14, 2013 01:48
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Bosushi! posted:I really hate the timing on the 2 XX OR, so I came up with a variation that winds up being the same damage. I actually knew about this one, but I didn't include it because I already had the other one in there. It's good to do this, though, to play around with combos, see what's possible, see if there are easier variations that still do the same or close to the same damage. You probably will want to work on 2 XX OR~MB, though, because some of the combos that use two meters and trait cancel can't abide the extra hit for 22 XX OR~MB.
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May 14, 2013 01:52
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Lurdiak posted:I'm just glad this game's well-made enough that the power gap is obviously unintended and might even be patched out. Yeah all the patching worked out great for MK9.
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May 14, 2013 01:52
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Lurdiak posted:Tier lists are one of the many poisons the fighting game community at large likes to gorge itself on. I'm just glad this game's well-made enough that the power gap is obviously unintended and might even be patched out. Yeah let's just patch out all the imbalances in every game, dunno why nobody ever thought of such a simple solution before.
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May 14, 2013 01:57
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The only things that should be patched right now are dumb stuff like Cyborg's block infinite and Ares unblockable setup.
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May 14, 2013 01:58
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Jmcrofts posted:...You think the gap in tiers is INTENTIONAL in some games? While I think his assertion is silly in general, I remember Ono basically saying he designed pre-2012 Yun and Yang to be overly powerful. bebaloorpabopalo posted:Yeah all the patching worked out great for MK9. It did. There's still silly stuff in the game (Bird Lao holy poo poo) but the patches made it far better. Free Gratis fucked around with this message at 02:02 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 01:59
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Liar Lyre posted:The only things that should be patched right now are dumb stuff like Cyborg's block infinite and Ares unblockable setup. Why would they even think about patching out Ares unblockable setup? In a game rife with bullshit let the God of War have his. Besides I read that if anything you'll have the option to tech after the b23 making Ares guess on what mb smack he needs to bust out.
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May 14, 2013 02:15
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AndyElusive posted:Why would they even think about patching out Ares unblockable setup? In a game rife with bullshit let the God of War have his. Yeah, that's all they need to do. Making it a 50/50 is much more fair and fun.
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May 14, 2013 02:20
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