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I don't follow the Thor comics. Are the Warriors Three supposed to be Einherjar?
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May 14, 2013 02:07
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Tripwyre posted:Rue was a cute little girl in an awful situation in The Hunger Games. None these changes disrespected the core of the characters. Rue was black in the book. That wasn't a change.
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May 14, 2013 02:07
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_Three According to wikipedia they're "Gods" Clicking on Hogun it says he's an Aesir.
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May 14, 2013 02:10
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effervescible posted:Rue was black in the book. That wasn't a change. I've never read those books but seem to remember the internet losing its mind about her being black in the movie...?
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May 14, 2013 02:13
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Tripwyre posted:I've never read those books but seem to remember the internet losing its mind about her being black in the movie...?
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May 14, 2013 02:14
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Tripwyre posted:I've never read those books but seem to remember the internet losing its mind about her being black in the movie...? You're thinking of Lenny Kravitz as the stylist Cinna, who wasn't specified as any race in the book. That one was mostly defended as "that's not how I pictured him in the books," which while not necessarily racist is still weak as a defense, especially because Kravitz did a fine job. There's not really that same excuse with the Fantastic Four, although I personally don't mind if Sue and Johnny are black provided they're decent actors working with a decent script (and I have very low hopes for that).
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May 14, 2013 02:15
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I guess what I'm saying is, if Michael B. Jordan is the best actor who auditions, why is it a "pointless, arbitrary change" if he wins the role? He was great in Chronicle.
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May 14, 2013 02:19
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mind the walrus posted:You're thinking of Lenny Kravitz as the stylist Cinna, who wasn't specified as any race in the book. That one was mostly defended as "that's not how I pictured him in the books," which while not necessarily racist is still weak as a defense, especially because Kravitz did a fine job. No, it was Rue as well. She's actually described as having dark skin in the books in one offhand line that didn't really matter. But all the people reading her description of being "innocent" interpreted it as "white". Hahaha, gently caress you teen internet racists.
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May 14, 2013 02:23
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Tripwyre posted:I guess what I'm saying is, if Michael B. Jordan is the best actor who auditions, why is it a "pointless, arbitrary change" if he wins the role? He was great in Chronicle. Because the world isn't colorblind, especially in Hollywood and media which is still depressingly segregated in many ways-- see The Last Airbender and Tyler Perry movies for two different examples. Odds are that even if Michael B. Jordan was the best actor that wouldn't be the sole reason he was hired because Hollywood is always afraid of making main character People of Color unless there's a marketing reason to do so, and given that the Fantastic Four as historically one of the most whitebread superhero groups out there it does smack of marketing "we need to appeal to the 'urban' market" changes rather than pure merit. I get what you're saying, but you're coming across a little naive and idealistic about a business system which is anything but. E-- Cinnamon Bastard posted:No, it was Rue as well. She's actually described as having dark skin in the books in one offhand line that didn't really matter. But all the people reading her description of being "innocent" interpreted it as "white". Oh no poo poo eh? I'm definitely biased since I saw the movie before reading the book so I can't pretend I know how I would have reacted... but really? Innocent = white? I'd like to believe I'm nowhere near that lovely.
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May 14, 2013 02:24
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I guess I have it pretty easy because I usually forget what a character looks like between putting the book down and picking it back up the next day. Rue could have been polka-dot for all I remembered.
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May 14, 2013 02:29
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Now I want one of the high-falutin' rich people to be polkadot. And not, like, with makeup. I want a black actor and a white actor to play the same character in front of a green screen, and then have their performances seamlessly composited together in a polkadot pattern.
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May 14, 2013 02:33
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Seeing the rich people in the Hunger Games, I can totally believe it if there's a culture of polka dot face paint among them. What Cinnamon Bastard said, though, is both great and revolutionary. Somebody should make a movie about a biracial person like that.
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May 14, 2013 02:40
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I think the one thing that makes me disagree with the notion of them wanting to appeal to the "urban market" is that it's a market that I'm not sure they actually have to worry about. Red Letter Media mentioned in a Plinkett review that they thought Samuel L. Jackson was cast in Star Wars to appeal to a market that generally doesn't watch Star Wars movies, and I found that hard to believe because they were working under the assumption the black people are the least likely people to see a Star Wars movie. Black guys were some of the nerdiest dudes I knew in high school when it came to superhero comics and anime. Most of them weren't too dorky about it or bought into the idea of identifying as a nerd, but there was definitely an interest. Hell, the best superhero movie experience I had was seeing X-men 2 in a theater in which I was the only white person. There was almost universal excitement for the whole thing and hushed whispers of "Phoenix" at the film's end. It was the nerdiest time I've ever had in a theater besides the time I got in a argument with a stranger after a midnight showing of Watchmen. That's not to say that it's not possible for there to be some dumb executive who is just that out of touch, but I think the more likely thing would be for someone to say, "Hey, Black people see superhero movies. Maybe more of them would see it if we actually had a black superhero." And as far as cynical ideas go, that's not a horrible one. I think what is more likely is that Jordan is a talented and good looking guy who could be a real movie star. A superhero ensemble movie is a pretty good way to make yourself a household name. He also worked with the director before, and there were probably some negotiations to fit him in the film. It probably isn't too different than how and why Chris Evans ended up in the first film.
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May 14, 2013 02:43
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I want to know when this guy is going to be cast in a American movie. Dude is already a great actor, dancer, looks like a star, etc. Like a Hugh Jackman. He can do drama, romance, comedy, it all. Dude already played a superhero in Bollywood and got jacked like heck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeWBKvd7QHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gHKOU_JAjw EDIT: He looks like could be Clark Kent/Superman. Gatts fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 02:47
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Jamesman posted:These other changes are never ignored, so I don't know what world you are living in where people ONLY care that ethnicity stays intact when adapting a property. People have attachments to the source material, and they don't want arbitrary, pointless changes made in adaptation. Sometimes one of these pointless changes involves the color of a person's skin, and if someone is displeased with that does not make them a racist. If the reason you want Johnny and Sue Storm to be white is because it lights up your brain's nostalgia centers and fills your head with happy thoughts, that's cool. No different than someone who wants complete comic book accuracy. The only catch is that to stay cool you've got to be willing to let that poo poo go and look at the new iteration on it's own merits. We've all got our own particular favorite interpretation of our superheroes. Yours is almost never going to be the one that gets to the screen whole cloth, C'est la vie. Personally I think any Question that isn't an Urban Shaman is clearly inferior, doesn't mean that the other versions are poo poo tacos which I shall never accept. People's problem with that cannon intractability is when people start throwing nerd hissy fits about how this new iteration is WRONG!!!! If you've got some solid reasons why any changes made were inferior to your superior version, that's cool lay them out in a reasonable fashion. "But...but, Johnny Storm is white. WHITE." is however not a reasonable argument. Nor is "Jimmy Olsen is a boy, a boy goddamn it!"
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May 14, 2013 02:54
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Gyges posted:If the reason you want Johnny and Sue Storm to be white is because it lights up your brain's nostalgia centers and fills your head with happy thoughts, that's cool. No different than someone who wants complete comic book accuracy. The only catch is that to stay cool you've got to be willing to let that poo poo go and look at the new iteration on it's own merits. We've all got our own particular favorite interpretation of our superheroes. Yours is almost never going to be the one that gets to the screen whole cloth, C'est la vie. Personally I think any Question that isn't an Urban Shaman is clearly inferior, doesn't mean that the other versions are poo poo tacos which I shall never accept.
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May 14, 2013 03:03
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think the one thing that makes me disagree with the notion of them wanting to appeal to the "urban market" is that it's a market that I'm not sure they actually have to worry about. Red Letter Media mentioned in a Plinkett review that they thought Samuel L. Jackson was cast in Star Wars to appeal to a market that generally doesn't watch Star Wars movies, and I found that hard to believe because they were working under the assumption the black people are the least likely people to see a Star Wars movie. Black guys were some of the nerdiest dudes I knew in high school when it came to superhero comics and anime. Most of them weren't too dorky about it or bought into the idea of identifying as a nerd, but there was definitely an interest. Hell, the best superhero movie experience I had was seeing X-men 2 in a theater in which I was the only white person. There was almost universal excitement for the whole thing and hushed whispers of "Phoenix" at the film's end. It was the nerdiest time I've ever had in a theater besides the time I got in a argument with a stranger after a midnight showing of Watchmen. RLM also spent a third of their Red Tails review saying that racism was over and in their latest review they called Michael Bay a "dumb jock". What I'm saying is that they have bad opinions about anything outside of film because they never grew out of high school.
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May 14, 2013 03:08
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...of SCIENCE! posted:RLM also spent a third of their Red Tails review saying that racism was over and in their latest review they called Michael Bay a "dumb jock". What I'm saying is that they have bad opinions about anything outside of film because they never grew out of high school. There's some real truth to this. Their ASM review was shameful. Gyges posted:If the reason you want Johnny and Sue Storm to be white is because it lights up your brain's nostalgia centers and fills your head with happy thoughts, that's cool. No different than someone who wants complete comic book accuracy. The only catch is that to stay cool you've got to be willing to let that poo poo go and look at the new iteration on it's own merits. We've all got our own particular favorite interpretation of our superheroes. Yours is almost never going to be the one that gets to the screen whole cloth, C'est la vie. Personally I think any Question that isn't an Urban Shaman is clearly inferior, doesn't mean that the other versions are poo poo tacos which I shall never accept. You're not wrong. That said it's not pure selfish nostalgia that's always at work when people want to keep their superheroes relatively true to their Silver Age incarnations. It's a form of nostalgia, but a weird one where the thought is "I loved this so much I want to see it capture that feeling on the big screen for everyone I know who didn't bother to read the books can enjoy it the same way I did." The rub of course is that you need to recognize whether or not a change ruins that feeling for you, and to play devil's advocate there is a reason to believe that a black Johnny and Sue would change that simply because being black causes a different cultural experience for a person than a white one. I'm not saying one is preferable over the other and like I said I don't really give a poo poo as long as the script is solid and the acting decent, but you don't need to tear the argument of a Johnny or Sue Storm down because there's a chance it's racist or deluded.
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May 14, 2013 03:14
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The only time race matters is when it is important to the characters personality, background, etc. I wouldn't want a white guy playing Black Panther, for instance. But I also wouldn't want a black guy playing Baron Zemo. Johnny Storm's race, and Sue Storm's for that matter, doesn't matter to those characters at all. For Thor it was already established that not all the Asgardians were white, what with Hogun and all, and it's not like Heimdall NEEDED to be a certain race for any reason other than "he was like this in the comics" so that controversy was stupid. Kingpin is the same deal. If the person chosen is a good actor and a good fit for the role, then that's all that matters. And Michael B. Jordan already played the best on screen version of Johnny Storm ever in Chronicle, so anyone who can't get behind that casting is a dummy.
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May 14, 2013 03:24
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Gatts posted:I want to know when this guy is going to be cast in a American movie. Dude is already a great actor, dancer, looks like a star, etc. Like a Hugh Jackman. He can do drama, romance, comedy, it all. Dude already played a superhero in Bollywood and got jacked like heck.
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May 14, 2013 03:37
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TetsuoTW posted:He was in... Krrish, I think, right? That movie was great. Yes. And he got jacked to gently caress for the 3rd one. 
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May 14, 2013 03:42
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...of SCIENCE! posted:RLM also spent a third of their Red Tails review saying that racism was over and in their latest review they called Michael Bay a "dumb jock". What I'm saying is that they have bad opinions about anything outside of film because they never grew out of high school. Wow I can't believe they would insult Michael Bay like that.
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May 14, 2013 03:56
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Gatts posted:Yes. And he got jacked to gently caress for the 3rd one. Well, if they ever make a live action JoJo's movie we've got every character's body double right here.
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May 14, 2013 04:03
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Tripwyre posted:Can you cite a single example of these changes being pointless and arbitrary? I'm not trying to be stand-offish, I'm legitimately curious. In comic book movies the superficial is a far bigger factor than "acting talent" when studios cast actors. Ethnicity and everything else about an actors appearance are carefully calculated by studios, I guarantee Elba was cast to widen the target audience/avoid accusations of racism not because he wowed them with his impassioned audition for Heimdall (a totally inconsequential and forgettable character). I'm not saying that diversifying a heavily white genre is necessarily bad, but it's done for reasons of profit and PC acceptability, not artistic integrity. Also is there some movie where Idris Elba really impressed people with his performance? I can't say he's every really stood out to me in any role I can remember seeing him in.
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May 14, 2013 04:16
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Yeah, Idris Elba played a minor character on some obscure HBO show, I forget the name of it.
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May 14, 2013 04:19
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Gatts posted:Yes. And he got jacked to gently caress for the 3rd one. Holy poo poo. I wish someone would pay me to work out all day so I could get half this in-shape.
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May 14, 2013 04:27
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Heimdall is the 'white god'. Casting Idris Elba might not be a coincidence for all we know.
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May 14, 2013 04:28
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TheNakedFantastic posted:In comic book movies the superficial is a far bigger factor than "acting talent" when studios cast actors. Ethnicity and everything else about an actors appearance are carefully calculated by studios, I guarantee Elba was cast to widen the target audience/avoid accusations of racism not because he wowed them with his impassioned audition for Heimdall (a totally inconsequential and forgettable character). I'm not saying that diversifying a heavily white genre is necessarily bad, but it's done for reasons of profit and PC acceptability, not artistic integrity. I guess my question is, so what? If studios see that, due to demographic changes, it would be more profitable to cast a minority actor in more parts then it seems like a win-win. Both as a viewer who would like to see more minority actors on screen and for studios who want to make more money.
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May 14, 2013 04:43
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TheNakedFantastic posted:Also is there some movie where Idris Elba really impressed people with his performance? I can't say he's every really stood out to me in any role I can remember seeing him in. His movie roles haven't been very good... he has been pretty enjoyable in The Wire and the BBC series Luther.
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May 14, 2013 04:46
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Teenagers (and most other people) have poo poo reading comprehension.
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May 14, 2013 05:50
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Gatts posted:Yes. And he got jacked to gently caress for the 3rd one.
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May 14, 2013 05:55
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I guess I get annoyed when you see people explode with outrage over a black actor playing a previously white character, yet you barely hear a peep when Hugh Jackman is way too tall to be playing Wolverine.
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May 14, 2013 05:56
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TheNakedFantastic posted:Also is there some movie where Idris Elba really impressed people with his performance? I can't say he's every really stood out to me in any role I can remember seeing him in. This also goes for anyone who doubts the awesomeness of Michael B Jordan, but watch The Wire, and go gently caress yourself. Not necessarily in that order.
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May 14, 2013 06:01
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TheNakedFantastic posted:Also is there some movie where Idris Elba really impressed people with his performance? I can't say he's every really stood out to me in any role I can remember seeing him in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDB9R2_Jk4 His talent for accents is really something else.
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May 14, 2013 06:05
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You don't seem to remember that there was quite a shitfit over Hugh Jackman's casting, a small part of which was height, but more was made of the fact that he was a song-and-dance guy, and how could a guy who does something like musicals possibly be as macho as Wolverine? Ah, weird homophobia on the Internet circa '98-'99. But yeah, Michael B. Jordan should be Johnny Storm. I literally cannot think of anyone else right now who could pull off both the general dickishness and utter charm of the character than him.
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May 14, 2013 06:08
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Bob Quixote posted:Since Johnny and Sue are siblings does that Sue Storm will be played by a black actress now? Because having a black female superhero called "The Invisible Woman" seems hilariously self-aware of Hollywoods track record.
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May 14, 2013 06:43
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Man, comic nerds are enormous racists, in addition to their general misogyny and homophobia. drat, it's as if they're saying "welp, I'm already undateable, might as well go all the way in making myself a piece of human garbage". Also, yes, almost any superhero can be any race and it should be okay unless you are a gigantic baby.
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May 14, 2013 06:46
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Gyges posted:I think the really funny anger right now is in Jimmy Olsen now being a lady. After all the things that Jimmy Olsen has done and had happen to him in his adventures with his pal Superman, getting mad that now it's Jenny is just hilarious. This was from two pages ago, but when did they confirmed Jimmy Olsen is a girl in Man of Steel?
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May 14, 2013 06:49
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I'm just gonna chime in with my usual unpopular (here at least), going-against-the-grain two cents that I've had about this issue from all the way back to Donald Glover times: "White" is not some sort of racial neutral area, it is not a race-free blank slate that we imprint other races onto under the premise that it doesn't really make a difference. I break out in hives every time people suggest there's no difference between a white guy and a black guy so long as the latter doesn't come from some African country. I actually can't work up the energy to be very opposed to this particular case, but probably only because I think Michael B. Jordan is phenomenal and I've been dying to see him in more roles. Even so, I'm not fond of this practice in general. We need far more diversity representation in general, but I've never been a fan of outright race-swapping. And those are my 2cents.
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May 14, 2013 06:49
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BrianWilly posted:I'm just gonna chime in with my usual unpopular (here at least), going-against-the-grain two cents that I've had about this issue from all the way back to Donald Glover times: I kind of see what you're saying, but in this context I really don't think it'll matter. If you were making a big character drama and you changed the main character from a white guy to a black guy, then yes, I think that you'd probably have to change the script a bit to acknowledge that race does play a part in people's lives. However in a superhero action movie, and as someone who knows nothing about the comic book character of Johnny Storm other than that he is cocky and childish and a womanizer and can set himself on fire (is he the one who was a pilot, or is that The Thing?), I can fully accept that a black man could, in today's world, be all of those things.
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May 14, 2013 08:34
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