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Is UR storm still real or did it only do well because Jon Finkel was playing it?
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May 16, 2013 02:49
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It was only usable because of Seething Song.
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May 16, 2013 02:53
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Mulletstation posted:It was only usable because of Seething Song. Given that Finkel T8ed with it I would say you can't write it off completely. I saw a sick play in one of his matches. 7 cards in hand, just goes and drops double rituals, double bolts, another spell I can't recall right now and then double Grapeshot to take his opponent out from 19 life.
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May 16, 2013 03:53
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Is tron a popular deck at the moment? All the discussion of the teachings deck I'm building says that tron just destroys it because both decks go long and it has no way to deal with a hardcast Emrakul. So does anyone have any ways for a draw-go esper deck to deal with hard cast emrakul? I'm pretty new to modern so even obvious ones would be great.
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May 16, 2013 04:15
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You'd have to go for edict effects to deal with it. Emrakul is pretty much the ultimate inevitability card against other control decks. Tron owns is what I'm saying.
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May 16, 2013 04:26
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AgentSythe posted:Is UR storm still real or did it only do well because Jon Finkel was playing it?
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May 16, 2013 04:31
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TheKingofSprings posted:Given that Finkel T8ed with it I would say you can't write it off completely. It was a Gitaxian probe that drew him into another ritual
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May 16, 2013 04:36
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newtestleper posted:Is tron a popular deck at the moment? All the discussion of the teachings deck I'm building says that tron just destroys it because both decks go long and it has no way to deal with a hardcast Emrakul. Emrakul is specifically in there to go long against your type of deck. You can stop it with Mindbreak Trap... but then you have to play Mindbreak Trap in a format where Storm and Eggs is more iffy. Karn is difficult to beat, and so is Wurmcoil Engine. You can slow them down with land destruction and Surgical Extraction, or disrupt their hand with Thoughtseize, and then try to end the game with a quick White Sun's Zenith.
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May 16, 2013 04:44
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AlphaKeny1 posted:Emrakul is specifically in there to go long against your type of deck. You can stop it with Mindbreak Trap... but then you have to play Mindbreak Trap in a format where Storm and Eggs is more iffy. Karn is difficult to beat, and so is Wurmcoil Engine. You can slow them down with land destruction and Surgical Extraction, or disrupt their hand with Thoughtseize, and then try to end the game with a quick White Sun's Zenith. I guess when I start taking this thing to tournaments I'll need to get a good idea of how big tron is in the meta here. Reading the mtgs forum thread about the deck it seems like a lot of the people building it just hope not to come up against tron- saying that devoting a significant portion of your sideboard to making a 10-90 matchup into a 20-80 matchup is not worth it. I think some play a playset of geist of st trafts in the board to bring in in control matchups just to hopefully stick one and beat down. I hadn't thought about edict effects, and I'm already running one to tutor up.
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May 16, 2013 04:59
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Shadow225 posted:Well, let me fix that. It seems like the lists that have been doing well recently haven't been playing the clutch in the undercity but I'm actually kind of a big fan of the black splash. One of the great things is that it advances the 'one card combo' of scapeshift since on 7 mana you can go Clutch of the Undercity Scapeshift kill you. I actually ended up returning a surprisingly high number of permanents to their owner's hands with Clutch of the Undercity. End of turn returning Leyline of Sanctity to your opponent's hand untapping and scapeshifting was a classic play when I was playing during that PTQ season. Granted, Cryptic Command can do the same thing but I ended up casting Clutch of the Undercity way more than I expected, including killing a Living End player with it after he Beast Within'd one of my lands and I attacked him for 15 with the beast token which was just hilarious. The other benefit the black splash gets you is that you get to play Slaughter Games in the board which is great. Its not as great now since a lot of the combo decks are banned but it used to be great against Eggs. Its still good against some combo decks and the mirror, of course, and I in fact even added a second Slaughter Games to the board after that PTQ. I honestly never really had that much trouble with aggro. At PTQ's I'm much more worried about burn which is what the spellskites are for. I switched from Pyroclasm to Firespout because the Gruul Aggro deck was really popular at the time I was playing in PTQ's. I actually didn't really have much trouble with aggro, although I only played against Affinity a handful of times but I won all my matches against them. I actually realized I had too much of a sideboard for affinity in the PTQ I top 8'd, beacause I last minute shoved Ancient Grudge into my deck to replace Mindbreak Trap because storm had just been banned. Then I Peer Through Depths'd during the game and pulled something like Land Creeping Corrosion Firespout Ancient Grudge Cryptic Command. It was at that moment I realized I had way too much of a sideboard for affinity haha, and after that I cut a creeping Corrosion for the second Slaughter Games. If aggro is a problem I would probably add Lightning Bolts and Snapcaster Mages to my deck. I would probably cut Serum Visions from my deck the next time I play this deck because honestly the card underperformed a bit for me. I ended up shuffling a lot since this deck shuffles pretty much every turn given the 10 or so ramp effects in the deck + four fetchlands. If I wasn't going to add Lightning Bolt I would probably add Worldy Counsel, I was actually considering replacing Peer through Depths with Worldly Counsel anyways, but mostly because I wanted to try the card out. The original reason I built the deck was because it was good against Jund, but of course Blood Braid Elf was banned, not that Jund didn't stop being a deck. Honestly I didn't feel like I couldn't win any matchup, mostly because the deck can just ramp to 7 and win anyways. Some of the weaker matchups are probably the hexproof deck and infect since you're leaning pretty hard on Firespout against them and especially against boggled enchantments they run out of Firespout range pretty quickly. Twin can be a problem because some of the decks maindeck Blood Moon, but you have a lot of basics anyways so you want to do the old Cryptic Command/Clutch of the Undercity end of turn then scapeshift combo. On the other hand you know exactly how Twin Wins so it shouldn't be a big deal. Aggro matchups like affinity in general can be a little annoying since you're leaning really hard on Firespout and affinity plays that stupid regenerating artifact card sometimes. Fortunately aggro decks are not that great in modern right now besides Affinity so its not exactly a huge deal. As I said before though you can just end up stealing a bunch of wins with this deck since you can just get to 7 mana and win anyways. Like I managed to beat UW Control at the PTQ even though my opponent drew like a million cards with Jace because I just in general don't really care how many cards you have. The main cards to worry about are Aven Mindcensor, Leyline of Sanctity, and Slaughter Games. The only deck that plays Mindcensor is UWR, so you always have to keep that card in mind, and if you're going for the scapeshift win either have izzet charm or remand or just hope they don't have it. Unfortunately remand is not that great against Mindcensor. The other option is to get to 8 and have cryptic/clutch of the undercity. Leyline of Sanctity is played a bit more, and UWR can also play this card. Unfortunately since Scapeshift just did pretty well at portland I could see a lot more decks starting to pack Leyline of Sanctity. Against Leyline you're hoping to do Clutch/Cryptic EOT untap scapeshift. If they ever have two in play well then your life just got a lot harder. Slaughter Games isn't actually a huge concern since Jund seems to be on the downturn but Slaughter Games is the reason I have Wurmcoil Engine in the sideboard. Jund is a deck you have to consider though since obviously people will play it. Some people think lifegain is great against Scapeshift and while its true that 7 lands is 18 damage people forget that 8 lands is 36 damage, and the only deck that can possibly gain that much life is Martyr Proc, so its really not a big deal. Like I played against someone who was 'making sure his life didn't go below 18' and then I just ramped to 8 and killed him anyways. One thing to remember is that people can Tectonic Edge a steam vents in response to triggers so you have to make sure that you can kill them through that, because the valakut triggers won't happen if you don't have enough mountains. Speaking of which, another card to somewhat worry about is Sowing Salts. A lot of people play Sowing Salts really incorrectly against Valakut, though, and especially against this version of the deck (the Cryptic Command version versus the Primeval Titan version), Sowing Salts'ing a Steam Vents or a Stomping ground is just as good as getting a Valakut. Sowing Salts is also not that great to be honest though against Valakut since you can just counterspell the Sowing Salts, but UWR brings it in just because they have so many cards they want to take out anyways. The cards I would consider adding and cutting for Valakut are Snapcaster Mage, Lightning Bolt, and Worldly Counsel. Like I said I would consider cutting Serum Visions. Another card I was considering was Edge of Autumn to replace Farseek to counter Sowing Salts but as I mentioned I don't even think Sowing Salts is that great against Valakut anyways. I think the deck is actually really strong right now, and a really great option for anyone who wants to do a modern event. The lack of aggro in the format makes Scapeshift great, I think.
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May 16, 2013 16:16
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FWIW some Melira-Pod lists run either a MD or SB Aven Mindcensor.
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May 16, 2013 17:55
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ChewyLSB posted:It seems like the lists that have been doing well recently haven't been playing the clutch in the undercity but I'm actually kind of a big fan of the black splash. One of the great things is that it advances the 'one card combo' of scapeshift since on 7 mana you can go Clutch of the Undercity Scapeshift kill you. I actually ended up returning a surprisingly high number of permanents to their owner's hands with Clutch of the Undercity. End of turn returning Leyline of Sanctity to your opponent's hand untapping and scapeshifting was a classic play when I was playing during that PTQ season. Granted, Cryptic Command can do the same thing but I ended up casting Clutch of the Undercity way more than I expected, including killing a Living End player with it after he Beast Within'd one of my lands and I attacked him for 15 with the beast token which was just hilarious. Now this is an awesome post. You're all-in with the combo kill game 1. What match-ups prompt you to bring in the second wincon, Wurmcoil Engine? As a Living End player, I think I'm going to throw Sowing Salts in my SB for this and Tron matchups. Any general thoughts on this?
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May 16, 2013 21:08
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If a deck can tap for 2BR I usually bring in Wurmcoil Engines. Luckily, there aren't that many decks like that. Living end I actually feel like scapeshift is hilariously favored in that matchup. Remand and Cryptic Command just poo poo all over Living End, and it doesn't really have a great way to stop Scapeshift. Granted, if Living End resolves the scapeshift deck basically can't do anything besides tap creatures and draw but that never feels like a problem. Like I said, Sowing Salts is okay against Valakut but unlike Tron Valakut has counterspells so its a lot worse against Scapeshift.
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May 16, 2013 21:37
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Let me give a quick rundown of my GP Portland experience. I went into a few last chance trials to get a feel for the decks I had with me. I lost r1 with me on RG Tron vs Living End and pulled UWR Control back out of the bag. Lost to Scapeshift in the second trial, beat a scapeshift then lost to something else in the third trial. For reference sake my list was almost exactly the same as the second place in the previous Modern GP's UWR control deck, but I cut a Batterskull from the board, moved an Ajanni Vengeant into its spot and put a Gideon Jura MD. Fast forward to the event R1 - Bye R2 - That Grislebrand / red discard spell deck. I beat him game 1 by countering things, beat him game 2 by surgicaling his Grislebrand, and when he went to goryo's in response spell snaring the goryo. Good times. R3 - Lost to BW Tokens. I was one card from a wrath  R4 - UWR Twin. The dude clearly didn't know what deck he was playing. R5 - BW Tokens. Only time I mulled hard all tournament and it cost me dearly. R6 - Scapeshift. Counterfluxed a Scapeshift leaving him on 4 mana. He izzet charmed a snapcaster leaving him with two land open and me with a sowing salts + spell snare backup. Oh and he had his valakut in play. Yea that game ended well. R7 - UWR Twin. Removal removal removal. Goddamn I run a lot of removal. R8 - Infect : Oddly enough, the deck's best matchup R9 - Affinity : Oddly enough, the deck's second best matchup DAY TWO~ (enter incompetence) R10 - UWR Flash. I board thinking its the mirror despite seeing resto and b-skull g1. I stupidly cryptic a v-clique and choose to draw a card instead of bounce his collonade. He untaps and drops a geist. I think of all my boardwipe in my board and swear loudly. R11 - Fish. How did a fish deck day 2? Why didn't I electrolyze his lord when he only had a vial untapped on 1 instead of letting him untap first. Well, good thing we know that I'm an idiot from R10  R12 - Jund with blue? Dude was actually super on tilt so all I had to do was lock him out for a few turns and he just stopped playing. Thankfully countering everything you try and do (and bolting bobs in the meantime) is a great way to demoralize an opponent. R13 - Gruul Zoo. I played this deck at a PTQ and love it dearly. It was sad to piecemeal take him apart. Also notable for being yet another humongous punt in g2 when I scooped to a lethal bolt instead of seeing what the electrolyze in my hand would draw me (hint : it was lightning helix) R14 - French Dredge. No way I'd ever beat this deck but holy hell it was a blast to play against R15 - Fish. Again. With blood moon.  So yea, I do phenominally day 1 including a rally to a 4 game winning streak at the tail end of day one, only to choke terribly day 2. Given I'd only gotten maybe 2 or 3 practice matches in since I built the deck (and none against any of the decks I faced) I think I did really well. I saw Chapin's article the other day and I think I'll modify my list to be more card-draw-y. Cantripping all day every day sounds like a wonderful plan.
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May 17, 2013 07:24
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Shavnir posted:R14 - French Dredge. No way I'd ever beat this deck but holy hell it was a blast to play against The hell? You can't just drop these like that at the end and not elaborate. What the hell is French Dredge, and how is it any different than non-french dredge? And what the hell was that Fish player doing with blood moons?
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May 17, 2013 08:32
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Jenx posted:The hell? You can't just drop these like that at the end and not elaborate. What the hell is French Dredge, and how is it any different than non-french dredge? And what the hell was that Fish player doing with blood moons? The Fish + Blood Moon makes sense. You only need Islands, so playing RU lands to enable Blood Moon isn't a bad idea.
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May 17, 2013 12:57
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Blood Moon is actually really good in modern, if you look at the top 8 of any modern event you see decklists that all get destroyed by Blood Moon. The only problem is that Blood Moon decks really suck. Storm used to be the premier Blood Moon deck but obviously that got banned, so its basically just twin left. Fish + Blood Moon does make sense, though. Its kind of like UWR miracles in Legacy. ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 14:20 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 14:16
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I think most Affinity decks run Blood Moon in the side too, at least those running the red burn spells.
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May 17, 2013 14:44
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BizarroAzrael posted:I think most Affinity decks run Blood Moon in the side too, at least those running the red burn spells. Anywhere from 0-4, most settling on 2. Between Mox Opal, Springleaf Drum, and their mostly colorless creature base they can afford it. It also shuts off the blinkmoths and inkmoths, who are great pals with Master of Etherium and Arcbound Ravager, though.
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May 17, 2013 16:38
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I'm in love with Life from the Loam. When I was able to use it at Portland, it was always the superstar. I had one game go: Turn 1: Weathered Wayfarer Turn 2: Ghost Quarter Turn 3: Ghost Quarter Turn 4: Ghost Quarter Turn 5: Ghost Quarter Turn 6: Life from the Loam, opponent threw his cards at me. What decks are abusing Loam the most right now?
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May 17, 2013 17:24
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4 color gifts can get a loam package usually in the form of loam, raven's crime, tectonic edge/ghost quarter, and maybe urborg. It's pretty difficult for certain decks to deal with game one. Last year had Bronson's jund loam deck but I haven't really seen it being played this year.
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May 17, 2013 17:33
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Tharizdun posted:I'm in love with Life from the Loam. When I was able to use it at Portland, it was always the superstar. I had one game go: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4897&d=228302 This guy has been doing good on mtgo with a loam deck. I'd love to play it but I don't have lilliana. Maybe I can just try and sub something. The deck looks so miserable and unfun to play against 
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May 17, 2013 18:41
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Jenx posted:The hell? You can't just drop these like that at the end and not elaborate. What the hell is French Dredge, and how is it any different than non-french dredge? And what the hell was that Fish player doing with blood moons? It was a new ish build of dredgevine featuring a top end of demigod of revenge. Turns out my opponent, Olivier Ruel is in the hall of fame. Welp.
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May 17, 2013 19:49
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Shavnir posted:It was a new ish build of dredgevine featuring a top end of demigod of revenge. Turns out my opponent, Olivier Ruel is in the hall of fame. Welp. I've been wanting to play a deck with Demigod again since 2009. I want this list.
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May 17, 2013 20:26
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Shavnir posted:It was a new ish build of dredgevine featuring a top end of demigod of revenge. Turns out my opponent, Olivier Ruel is in the hall of fame. Welp. That actually sounds amazingly fun. I'd love to see a list too.
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May 17, 2013 20:32
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Jenx posted:That actually sounds amazingly fun. I'd love to see a list too. This looks like one.
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May 17, 2013 20:47
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Shavnir posted:Stuff. How did the Ajani and Gideon treat you? The only planeswalker I see with any regularity is Lilly.
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May 17, 2013 20:48
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AgentSythe posted:Is UR storm still real or did it only do well because Jon Finkel was playing it? In other news, what do you guys think of young pyromancer? Is it enough to make UR delver work?
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May 20, 2013 22:32
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I'll have to sleeve it up. Some people I know were talking about her in legacy UR Delver and had proxied her and done a bit of testing today. Seemed pretty good, I think the power level is there. I'm not sure if you can put UR Delver together in Modern though. You lose PoP, Daze, the decent card filtering, and Forces (not that you really need those in Modern). Maybe something like the UR Faeries lists that were sort of hanging around? Basically the traditional faerie creatures but instead of UB for bitterblossom R for blood moon and lightning bolts.
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May 21, 2013 01:11
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Well, 0-4, storm is bad. It was gold fishing decently, but at the tourney I just got awful draws the entire time. It's definitely not consistent enough.
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May 21, 2013 04:59
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Just to satisfy my curiosity, how much mainstay Modern creature removal is not White or Black? Was just wondering how troublesome Blood Baron of Vizkopa would be in the format. Probably the main concern is him just getting countered, but do Red or Green have anything? I expect there are a bunch of burn spells in addition to Mizzium Mortars (does that see Modern play?) that will see him off too.
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May 22, 2013 23:14
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Path and Lightning Bolt are pretty much the only premier removal spells that see play in Modern, then Supreme Verdict/Wrath and Damnation. Okay you can play Blood Baron but Baneslayer is much better against creatures and is better at attacking at the white 5cmc spot and looking to get them good by blanking their removal is kinda moot if you're playing control or if you're playing a creature heavy deck where each individual creature demands removal in the first place.
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May 22, 2013 23:22
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Dismember sees play too. Arguably way more than Damnation sees.
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May 22, 2013 23:29
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There's also Flame Slash. Only Splinter Twin really plays it right now, but it's definitely a card to be aware of if your gameplan is x/4s.
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May 22, 2013 23:35
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Terminate, Abrupt Decay, and Lightning Helix are great in the multicolor department. Green's removal choices end up just being "my creature is bigger than yours."
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May 22, 2013 23:48
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Many of those have black or white in them. Also oblivion stone is a good removal card.
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May 22, 2013 23:51
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Ask Me For Warez posted:I love everything about this deck. I love it almost as much as EGGS BEST DECK EVER.
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May 23, 2013 00:49
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Star Man posted:Green's removal choices end up just being "my creature is bigger than yours." Beast Within sees play but typically is used on not-creatures.
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May 23, 2013 01:21
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AgentSythe posted:Beast Within sees play but typically is used on not-creatures. sees play in exactly one deck (Living End) that is wavering in between T1 and T2. green also has access to Abrupt Decay, which is a little more legitimate.
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May 23, 2013 02:10
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Maelstorm pulse too, but that isn't hitting vizkopa. The thing with Blood Baron is that he costs 5, isn't really disruptive to whatever your opponent is trying to do. Might as well hold off for 1 more turn and cast a titan or wurmcoil.
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May 23, 2013 02:22
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