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Orgophlax posted:Adding 1 extra condition to a spawn script isn't going to increase CPU or memory usage in any meaningful way. It's not just one check, it's checks for whether a patrolling unit's path is at any point visible by a player's units. Which still shouldn't be at all computationally intensive, but there has to be some reason why it hasn't been patched yet.
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May 20, 2013 20:06
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:My Assault earned her Skull Helmet today by charging a Berserker to save a Squaddie. Rapid Fire from hard cover, he Intimidates and runs closer. My Colonel Assault panics, pops out of cover and shoots him again. The Berserker moves closer, triggering Close Combat Specialist and finishing him off for good. Way to go, Gunner I posted it a couple pages back, but anyway: Artyom "Cobra" Zaytsev was my first Colonel, my first Psyker and The Volunteer. During the last terror mission of the game in the library map, he charged into the front door and triggered a pack of Chrysalids and a Berserker. Thanks to his new alloy cannon and ammo conservation, he killed all three Chrysalids with CCS crits and then let Mona "The H.E.A.T" Hansen practically shave him with the blast from a Danger Zone / Mayhem rocket to kill the Berserker and his friends. amanasleep posted:--On the Plasma sniper rifle this damage is applied before crit damage calculation, so the possible crit results from a Laser sniper rifle are ([base damage =9] +6) * 1.5 = 22 or ([base damage =10] + 6) * 1.5 = 24. 
Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Dec 5, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 20:06
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Dr. Stab posted:It's not just one check, it's checks for whether a patrolling unit's path is at any point visible by a player's units. Which still shouldn't be at all computationally intensive, but there has to be some reason why it hasn't been patched yet. Exactly. They have acknowledged the bug, and they released a patch which made it even worse, then one that while not making it worse did little to fix it. What that tells us, is that although the logic is simple, the implementation is for some reason extremely complex. What that reason is I don't know, but if it was simple, it would be fixed already.
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May 20, 2013 20:33
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Dr. Stab posted:It's not just one check, it's checks for whether a patrolling unit's path is at any point visible by a player's units. Which still shouldn't be at all computationally intensive, but there has to be some reason why it hasn't been patched yet. The big thing is that the aliens teleport, there is no pathing they take to check, they just move from point a to point b instantly.
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May 20, 2013 20:40
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I've never seen this bug. Aliens are always moving normally for me, and always stop at my LOS.
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May 20, 2013 20:43
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amanasleep posted:Here is how crit damage is calculated: So I collapsed that into a single equation, excluding the inconsistent behavior of Headshot (which I don't believe is correct; I'm fairly sure I've seen LSRs do 12, which is inconsistent with your theory): DmgRoll is the rolled base damage out of [ListedDmg - 1, ListedDmg, ListedDmg + 1] FinalDamage = (floor[min(MaxBaseDmg,DmgRoll+1)*1.5] + bonuses) * 1.33 if Shredded Examples: Assault rifle (2-4, roll 2) = floor(min[4,3]*1.5) + 0 = floor(3*1.5) = floor(4.5) = 4 Assault rifle (2-4, roll 3) = floor(min[4,4]*1.5) + 0 = floor(4*1.5) = floor(6) = 4 Assault rifle (2-4, roll 4) = floor(min[4,4]*1.5) + 0 = floor(4*1.5) = floor(6) = 6 LPR (4-6, roll 4) = floor(min(6,5)*1.5) + 0 = floor(5*1.5) = floor(7.5) = 7 LPR (4-6, roll 5) = floor(min(6,6)*1.5) + 0 = floor(6*1.5) = floor(9) = 9 LPR (4-6, roll 6) = floor(min(6,7)*1.5) + 0 = floor(6*1.5) = floor(9) = 9 Alloy Cannon (8-10, roll 8) = floor(min(10,9)*1.5) = floor(9*1.5) = floor(13.5) = 13 Alloy Cannon (8-10, roll 9) = floor(min(10,10)*1.5) = floor(10*1.5) = floor(15) = 15 Alloy Cannon (8-10, roll 10) = floor(min(10,11)*1.5) = floor(10*1.5) = floor(15) = 15 Alloy Cannon (8-10, roll 10) with Aggression and 1 enemy visible: floor(min(10,11)*1.5)+1 = floor(10*1.5)+1 = floor(15)+1 = 16 Alloy Cannon (8-10, roll 10) with Aggression and 2 enemies visible: floor(min(10,11)*1.5)+2 = floor(10*1.5)+2 = floor(15)+2 = 17 Edgecase fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 21:16
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Revener posted:I've never seen this bug. Aliens are always moving normally for me, and always stop at my LOS. I had never seen it either, had never seen it at all and didn't understand what all the hoopla was about. Then on my last game I started getting it BAD every third or fourth fight. Was terrible, fun-destroying trash.
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May 20, 2013 21:18
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FoolyCharged posted:The big thing is that the aliens teleport, there is no pathing they take to check, they just move from point a to point b instantly. The worst thing is, the teleporting is way worse AFTER the patch to fix it, than it ever was in the base game.
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May 20, 2013 21:42
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So I just ran into a new, game stopping bug (at least for me). Very beginning of an I/I attempt. Just finished researching weapon fragments and no beam weapons research option. Just experimental warfare and the starting biology & alien materials. Awesome.
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May 20, 2013 21:44
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Did you use up most of your weapon fragments? You need some more before Beam Weapons research will show up.
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May 20, 2013 21:46
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ChronoReverse posted:Did you use up most of your weapon fragments? You need some more before Beam Weapons research will show up. It should still appear in the list but in red to show you don't have enough resources to research it.
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May 20, 2013 21:47
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Orgophlax posted:So I just ran into a new, game stopping bug (at least for me). Very beginning of an I/I attempt. Just finished researching weapon fragments and no beam weapons research option. Just experimental warfare and the starting biology & alien materials. Awesome. Try researching anything you can and report back. If it's still broken then submit a bug report. Don't think I've ever heard of this one.
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May 20, 2013 21:51
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Orgophlax posted:It should still appear in the list but in red to show you don't have enough resources to research it. I'm pretty sure it only shows up in red if you get the correct amount and then get rid of them, making it unavailable
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May 20, 2013 22:02
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Edgecase posted:So I collapsed that into a single equation, excluding the inconsistent behavior of Headshot (which I don't believe is correct; I'm fairly sure I've seen LSRs do 12, which is inconsistent with your theory): I think you're right about the damage for LSR (although I think the value I've seen for LSR Headshot is 11, not 12 -- I also think that I may have seen a value of 21 for a PSR Headshot). I think the +1 base damage roll for crit rule is also applied inconsistently or weapon by weapon, and may not apply to higher damage tier weapons or to weapons where the minimum crit damage is greater than to the maximum base damage. So for instance an LPR crits for 7 or 9 but never 6. A Heavy Laser Crits for 9 or 10 but never 7. But Alloy Cannons may crit for 12 in addition to 13 and 15 (although I can't recall if I've ever seen that result).
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May 20, 2013 22:08
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Orgophlax posted:So I just ran into a new, game stopping bug (at least for me). Very beginning of an I/I attempt. Just finished researching weapon fragments and no beam weapons research option. Just experimental warfare and the starting biology & alien materials. Awesome. Where you rushing them? If I recall correctly doing so will involve finishing weapon frags before your first ufo, which unlocks laser weapon tech.
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May 20, 2013 22:12
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Let's talk about goddamn chryssalids or whatever these fuckers are called. They have more movement than any of your dudes (unless you're a support with special armor). They can one-shot rookies with carapace armor on and never miss. When they kill a guy they resurrect a zombie that turns into another chrysallid which can then breed more chrysallids. They don't leave critically wounded dudes that can be stabilized, just dead bodies or near dead bodies. When they "activate" they rush forward instead of back so whoever discovered them usually gets killed the next round. If they kill one of your dudes, their cinematic hit takes for loving ever and then you get to see them puke into your lieutenant's mouth. gently caress 'em. Especially the first couple times you see them since you don't get the luxury of using plasma weapons on them, just (maybe) lasers and ballistic poo poo.
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May 20, 2013 22:29
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FoolyCharged posted:Where you rushing them? If I recall correctly doing so will involve finishing weapon frags before your first ufo, which unlocks laser weapon tech. I... don't know what you're asking? I finished weapon fragment research, which is supposed to unlock the beam weapon research category (which in turn lets you build laser rifles). The beam weapon category did not appear after finishing the weapon fragment research.
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May 20, 2013 22:31
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Orgophlax posted:I... don't know what you're asking? I finished weapon fragment research, which is supposed to unlock the beam weapon research category (which in turn lets you build laser rifles). The beam weapon category did not appear after finishing the weapon fragment research. You have to take down a UFO before any of the techs that require Alloys will appear, Beam Weapons included.
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May 20, 2013 22:36
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:never miss. Um, yeah they can. WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:When they "activate" they rush forward instead of back so whoever discovered them usually gets killed the next round. So fall back and set up or do your best to take them out that turn. You should have 5 or 6 guys by that point that can fire that turn. Plus them not being able to take cover and usually getting close means you should have great odds at hitting them.
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May 20, 2013 22:39
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Zoran posted:You have to take down a UFO before any of the techs that require Alloys will appear, Beam Weapons included. OOOOO... This I did not know and none of the tech trees I found mentioned it. Guess that explains it.
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May 20, 2013 22:59
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Orgophlax posted:OOOOO... This I did not know and none of the tech trees I found mentioned it. Guess that explains it. Just play the game the first time instead of sperging over tech trees. it's what I did. It's more fun. It's not like this xcom even has a complicated tree. And about the teleporting bug: I've only seen it once. This is when suddenly bad guys appear and activate in the middle of your squad, during their turn, right? Yeah if it happens a lot it could suck but also, it may be hard for them to reproduce in order to fix/test it? redreader fucked around with this message at 23:12 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 23:08
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Regarding LOS, you guys are presuming the LOS detection is both simple and fast, when it may be neither of these things. You would be amazed at how divorced various aspects of a game can be from one another. In many situations this separation is also a good idea. Now, these bugs should have still been fixed months ago, but jumping up and saying its gotta be incompetence makes you look awfully like gamers.txt.
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May 20, 2013 23:11
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The thing is that the game is already keeping track of which tiles you can see. There doesn't need to be an addition line of sight calculation.
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May 20, 2013 23:13
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redreader posted:Just play the game the first time instead of sperging over tech trees. it's what I did. It's more fun. It's not like this xcom even has a complicated tree.
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May 20, 2013 23:17
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One of my favorite moments was on a terror mission where a berserker ran down a hallway towards a civilian. I figured I had things under control (every time you think this...) so I would try save the civilian. Assault run and guns down the hall to rapid-fire two 90% shots at its back. Both miss... And nobody else can get a shot. Unready to let his companion die, the heavy has to breach the wall with a rocket to give the other guys a shot. Only problem: heavy has to eat his own rocket to make the hole. He does and saves the day. Hooray! Another time that same heavy blew up the cover of a ton of aliens allowing my ITZ sniper to kill like 7 or 8 aliens in a row and bail out the panicky squaddies. I imagine they high fived after that. Go team babysitters!
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May 20, 2013 23:21
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I have never lost anyone to a chryssalid  The closest that's ever happened was that a zombie woke up and punched my dude in the face (for more damage than a light plasma rifle!), but he got better. There have been other close calls but otherwise I've been lucky.
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May 20, 2013 23:25
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Dr. Stab posted:The thing is that the game is already keeping track of which tiles you can see. There doesn't need to be an addition line of sight calculation. Is it, or is it keeping track on a per soldier level, necessitating a weird loop with logical UNION operators to get the effective subset of squares that are visible? How do we know the view we see isn't just layered vision circles from our soldiers, that are in fact completely independent of one another? We don't, and presuming we know exactly how the game works is pretty grognardy.
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May 20, 2013 23:27
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So I decided to try my hand again at playing the game since I got an icht despite the bugs not fixed yet, but apparently I've forgotten how to play I/I since first mission I got 1 dead and 2 wounded, then the first abuction 1 dead 2 wounded again (one of them gravely) and on my first (second because I left the first one get away) UFO, upon meeting the first trio of sectoids, I hosed up and lost 2 rookies and a squaddie sniper before even inflicting any damage. So, with just my lone heavy left, I say fuckit and try anyway. She cleared the entire crash site by herself  No injuries, and the rocket was only used at the end to kill a mind-merging sectoid because I didn't want to risk a 76% shot.
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May 21, 2013 00:15
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Sounds like you've found the Volunteer.
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May 21, 2013 01:41
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Incidentally, if you're unlucky enough to go through your first five solders tested without finding the Gift (happens a lot if you have the Second Wave option "More Than Human" enabled), then your sixth soldier in the testing is guaranteed to be psychic. I took advantage of this when I was playing with Second Wave to force my Heavy to be the volunteer.
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May 21, 2013 01:43
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ChronoReverse posted:Incidentally, if you're unlucky enough to go through your first five solders tested without finding the Gift (happens a lot if you have the Second Wave option "More Than Human" enabled), then your sixth soldier in the testing is guaranteed to be psychic. I took advantage of this when I was playing with Second Wave to force my Heavy to be the volunteer. I favor an assault for the Volunteer. Psi-powers give a shotgun assault lots more options when the shotgun isn't going to be useful.
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May 21, 2013 01:55
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Eh, I just like to OHKO Sectopods.
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May 21, 2013 01:57
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Nephilm posted:So I decided to try my hand again at playing the game since I got an icht despite the bugs not fixed yet, but apparently I've forgotten how to play I/I since first mission I got 1 dead and 2 wounded, then the first abuction 1 dead 2 wounded again (one of them gravely) and on my first (second because I left the first one get away) UFO, upon meeting the first trio of sectoids, I hosed up and lost 2 rookies and a squaddie sniper before even inflicting any damage. I had something similar happen in OpenXCOM last night. Snakemen managed to pin down the Skyranger from the start thanks to it landing with a farmhouse opposite the ramp. Two of them burn down the first guy that steps onto the ramp... and the third lands a goddamn stunbomb inside the Skyranger. Down goes the entire team. Except for Bo Claesson. Bo was lucky enough to be the next one off the ramp, and somehow in the crossfire on the previous turn I'd managed to expose the locations of all three Snakemen. Bo shot each of them in the face in a single turn. And then hunted the rest of them down one-by-one with his heavy plasma. He got promoted to Captain for his efforts, but was killed by accidental friendly fire a mission later by a rookie trying to autofire at an alien near him. Cythereal posted:I favor an assault for the Volunteer. Psi-powers give a shotgun assault lots more options when the shotgun isn't going to be useful. I never actually gave shotguns much use in my first game. Then I tried them on my second run through and now my assault units get specced towards charging in like Beserkers intent on bringing pain to all they survey  .
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May 21, 2013 04:42
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Double Tap or In The Zone? Does In The Zone require the targets to be flanked by the sniper or just that they be flanked at all? This is for a squad sight sniper who rarely moves.
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May 21, 2013 05:52
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Revener posted:Double Tap or In The Zone? Does In The Zone require the targets to be flanked by the sniper or just that they be flanked at all? Double Tap in this case. As it's been said many times in the thread, both are pretty awesome. Double Tap gets more use, but ITZ is more powerful against enemies that can't get in cover such cyberdisks and chryssalids. All ITZ needs is for the target to not count as in cover, whether that be a flank or them being in the open.
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May 21, 2013 05:58
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Revener posted:Double Tap or In The Zone? Does In The Zone require the targets to be flanked by the sniper or just that they be flanked at all? Seconding Double Tap. It's insanely useful when you can set that sniper up in an elevated position with drat Good Ground and Squadsight.
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May 21, 2013 06:01
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Revener posted:Double Tap or In The Zone? Does In The Zone require the targets to be flanked by the sniper or just that they be flanked at all? It depends on your needs. ITZ is useful for cutting through large swarms of weaker units and relies upon success to continue. Double tap can't be used as often but both shots can be sent into the same target, allowing for a headshot->regular shot combination that will either kill or heavily weaken even the toughest of enemy units. My personal preference is double tap, but they both have their uses.
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May 21, 2013 06:02
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Agreed on both being useful, but on a personal level, I prefer In The Zone. Double Tap is great for taking down a big target, but a good assault can usually do the same job. ITZ allows you to, assuming a rocket for setup, clean out nine enemies in one turn, and reload after. Saved my rear end more than once when I got a rush on the enemy turn.
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May 21, 2013 06:19
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Note that double-tap has a natural cooldown of 1, it can be only used every 2 turns. And you can't control it, if your squadsight shoots only one dude this turn, then you won't have an opportunity to double-tap the next turn. It's still good if you need to put down something that Must. Die. Now. Like Sectopods or Cyberdiscs. ITZ is still good for taking out the drone swarms around Cyberdiscs and Sectopods, and really good for Chryssalids that can't deal with laser or plasma snipers. Having the SCOPE upgrade to boost your natural crit rate is also useful. Has anyone had much success using your frontline forces making a bold flanking maneuvers so to force the aliens to reorient themselves perpendicular to your sniper, so as to give clear lines of fire for ITZ to work?
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May 21, 2013 06:28
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Phobophilia posted:Has anyone had much success using your frontline forces making a bold flanking maneuvers so to force the aliens to reorient themselves perpendicular to your sniper, so as to give clear lines of fire for ITZ to work? This seems way more risky and tedious than just sending a rocket up their rear end to destroy cover. Actually a good use for Shredder rockets, as the extra damage boost pretty much ensures the sniper shot will kill.
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May 21, 2013 06:56
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