Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

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Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

Dallan Invictus posted:

Well, you're obviously closer to the CPC caucus than I am, but I grew up out West and I know the kinds of people who voted these guys in. Just because the rural Prairies won't vote Liberal doesn't mean that half of these guys couldn't run for NeoReform and win anyway, if they're pushed hard enough. Obviously they'd end up in Opposition but the past seven years have convinced me that most of them would be happier there.

(In that vein, I would really suggest to that PMO comms guy on Twitter that he stop trying to goad Rathgeber into a byelection, because the odds are very good he will win one handily and we all know the media would turn it into a referendum on The Harper Government's transparency record, which is almost certainly the last thing your bosses should want.)

Who from PMO is doing this. Please post the handle now.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:26

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# ? May 9, 2024 18:04

Canadian Surf Club: Feb 15, 2008; Word.

He's talking about Andrew MacDougall I believe. @PMO_MacDougall

quote:

Andrew MacDougall ‏@PMO_MacDougall 37m
Mr. Rathgeber has resigned from caucus. (1/2)

quote:

Andrew MacDougall ‏@PMO_MacDougall 36m
The people of Edmonton-St. Albert elected a Conservative Member of Parliament. Mr. Rathgeber should resign and run in a by-election. (2/2)

Over/under on PMSH being aware of this? Not good I imagine.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:27

Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

Canadian Surf Club posted:

He's talking about Andrew MacDougall I believe. @PMO_MacDougall

Over/under on PMSH being aware of this? Not good I imagine.

It's like the comms department are trying to make PMO's job hard on purpose just for the challenge. :Facepalm:

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:32

Stephen Harper: Apr 13, 2011; Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.

Dmitri Soudas, former Harper Director of Communications and current director of the Canadian Olympic Committee tweeted this

quote:

@D_Soudas: @brentrathgeber your decision was probably taken on May 2 2011. Pattern of behaviour was obvious it was coming to this. #run-in-by-election

God why did this all happen so late

Stephen Harper fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:38

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Team THEOLOGY posted:

It's like the comms department are trying to make PMO's job hard on purpose just for the challenge. :Facepalm:

It's also nakedly hypocritical considering David Emerson was rewarded by Harper with a Cabinet post for ditching his caucus.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:39

Tochiazuma: Feb 16, 2007

DynamicSloth posted:

It's also nakedly hypocritical considering David Emerson was rewarded by Harper with a Cabinet post for ditching his caucus.

Doubly so since they gave so much poo poo to Stronach for doing the same thing

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:43

Stephen Harper: Apr 13, 2011; Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.

And they voted down legislation that would've made byelections mandatory after crossing the floor. It's all sorts of hypocritical.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 04:47

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

Team THEOLOGY posted:

Let me begin by saying I have been in Ottawa my whole life save for schooling. It definitely could knock that attitude into someone.

Also Bunny as usual I know you are a gentleman you would have to be pretty flippant about being a jackass for me to take any offence.

(Now for content)

That seems like one of those comments where you go "all Asians are evil but no offence Asians". Not going into the fundamentals I just think a lot of politics is a debate between people and what they think the role of the government should be versus the role of the individual. Also my family has almost always been in small business and politics is generally (aside from the occasional champagne socialist) about people wanting to get the best for themselves.

Anyway it's all good you are more than welcome to disagree with me, the party or what have you. But I think I could say the same about anything rhetorical the NDP has said about raising taxes which (and I know this for a fact because I know what my families margins are) would bankrupt our small business and put our employees out of work.

Again, this is just a minutiae example and I don't really want to get into my personal reasons for being a Conservative and very individualistic-"ally" driven versus communally but I think you guys get the point. Everyone comes with ideas and ideals which they think are right, I don't think my ideas are right for everyone but they are for me and mine and really that's what most people (whether they think it or not) are fighting for in a democracy.

Sure I'm Conservative, but I'm no fool and I don't think myself evil. I just think most people (even those that don't think it) walk a pretty self serving path - even when they don't mean to. That being said I have first had experienced wages going up and us having to let go great staff because we couldn't afford them because people still didn't want to pay more for goods. Certainly in retail and the like, from my observations.

All that to say we all have different views and feel we can justify them. To call someone out on being hateful or stupid is distasteful to me.

PS: I love all you guys. Politics are politics and disagreements are what they are but I bear no ill will to those who disagree. Hell, if (read: when) we lose government I won't be mad at anyone, or the NDP, or the Libs (Bunny, see I remembered!). It will be our fault and I get that. But to think anyone in this 'Game of Seats' is innocent or without there blemishes is foolish and to decry someone for their political views without fully understanding why or where they come from is foolish at best and ignorant at worst.

Right, and I get that - and haven't a problem with small c conservatives (even though I disagree with most of their arguments). These dudes in power though are not those. I have absolutely no respect for this government, the way they govern, and the people they employ and I interacted with, whether it's a causal homophobic comment in the car ride, or a joke about native americans being lazy, or commenting how BC people need to suck it up and accept tankers everywhere. There is just a complete lack of any empathy of anyone who is not straight, white or christian, not to mention the loving disdain everyone seemed to have for institutions and actual statistics or scientists - often seeming to rule by pure spite (closing prison farms, fresh water research facility)

I am well aware of the irony and hypocrisy of tarring all CPC staffers with the same brush, but seriously, almost everyone I met in Ottawa who worked with the CPC left a bad taste in my mouth.

tl:dr - Ottawa broke me

Alctel fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 05:34

mr. unhsib: Sep 19, 2003; I hate you all.

More Rob Ford goodness today - Toronto Star tracked down the house the photo was taken, it's a known drug house right around the corner from Don Boscoe:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/05/rob_ford_with_slain_man_heres_the_house_where_the_photo_was_taken.html

Oh and there's also this:
http://www.torontomike.com/2013/06/windsor_road_house_from_rob_fo.html

# ? Jun 6, 2013 05:49

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

mr. unhsib posted:

More Rob Ford goodness today - Toronto Star tracked down the house the photo was taken, it's a known drug house right around the corner from Don Boscoe:

The Star, Gawker, and the Globe all tracked down that house on, apparently, the same day. I imagine reporters tripping over each other like something out of a slapstick comedy.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 05:53

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Per @acoyne

edit: found the actual Facebook page Looks like it's really hers though I suppose she could be trying some kind of stunt.

DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:19

Daynab: Aug 5, 2008

That's... certainly a twist :stare:

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:21

cafel: Mar 29, 2010; This post is hurting the economy!

Gonna want to hear how they got it while Gawkers sitting on 200 grand. Well I guess that cash will hopefully go to a good cause.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:27

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Since we parsed Ford's denials to hell and back, I will be fair and believe that Thomson will be posting a cat video, until approximately 11:59am EST tomorrow morning.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:33

Paper Jam Dipper: Jul 14, 2007; by XyloJW

I'm still hoping that someone finds a completely brand new video of Ford smoking crack that isn't the same as the one Gawker saw so Gawker doesn't hand over the money.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:34

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Some of the talk in the 3 shares of that post suggest she's got the straight up cash to pick it up. I don't know anything about this person or Women's Post, though she does look familiar.

But my question is why? Why does Women's Post need the Rob Ford video? I mean, okay, it'd be a way to get the website a bajillion hits, I suppose... She is a Toronto media person, so she'd have more connection to it than Gawker did. But this supposedly a magazine for "professional women" and in all honesty, that website is pretty terrible. I don't know if you guys have that same line down the middle that cuts through some of the text.

This has to be another video. It has to be.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:37

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Leofish posted:

Some of the talk in the 3 shares of that post suggest she's got the straight up cash to pick it up. I don't know anything about this person or Women's Post, though she does look familiar.

But my question is why? Why does Women's Post need the Rob Ford video?

You might remember Sarah Thomson from this famous civic election or this best-selling sexual harassment allegation.

(tl;dr: spite. Sweet, delicious spite.)

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:40

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Dallan Invictus posted:

You might remember Sarah Thomson from this famous civic election or this best-selling sexual harassment allegation.

(tl;dr: spite. Sweet, delicious, spite.)

She's also as far as I know the first person to publicly link Ford to cocaine (although I get the feeling it was an open secret behind the scenes).

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:41

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Dallan Invictus posted:

You might remember Sarah Thomson from this famous civic election or this best-selling sexual harassment allegation.

(tl;dr: spite. Sweet, delicious spite.)

Right, right. I'll admit her name didn't jump out at me in connection to Rob Ford right away. So, okay, she's got a reason to be on this thing. It makes a little more sense now.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:44

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

I don't understand why they need to wait on a video server when youtube exists. Sounds like a stunt to me.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:51

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

aaaand with the removal of the definite article from the womenspost tweet about the video I'd there is now a 95% chance this a dumb (and deliberate) stunt.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:51

mr. unhsib: Sep 19, 2003; I hate you all.

absolute loving stunt. gross.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 06:56

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

It could be a different video of Ford that damns him in another way. Still doubt it, though.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 13:40

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Somebody post ford-homer.gif of him pulling the candy off that woman's rear end.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 13:45

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Rathgeber's blog by way of CBC posted:

I barely recognize ourselves, and worse I fear that we have morphed into what we once mocked."

Wow. Other than the tweets calling for a byelection, has there actually been a response from anyone? Only one I found on our end is a tweet from Marc Garneau

@marcgarneau posted:

Whatever else one may think, no one should underestimate how much courage it takes to do what Brent Rathgeber did.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 15:48

Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

bunnyofdoom posted:

Wow. Other than the tweets calling for a byelection, has there actually been a response from anyone? Only one I found on our end is a tweet from Marc Garneau

That would be no.

In other news this was released.

But seriously, no.

Team THEOLOGY fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 15:53

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

I hope there isn't. Maybe our opposition can finally learn to stop interrupting the government when they're self-destructing.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 15:57

Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

Dallan Invictus posted:

I hope there isn't. Maybe our opposition can finally learn to stop interrupting the government when they're self-destructing.

I think he meant more from us than opposition.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 15:58

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Team THEOLOGY posted:

I think he meant more from us than opposition.

I meant every party to be honest. I just found it a little odd there was little to no noise.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 16:01

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

When it rains it pours. Given how restive the Conservative backbenchers are proving to be right now maybe this will finally be the year that the infighting at the Conservative convention hits the boiling point.

quote:

OTTAWA�Peter MacKay says he�s getting a bad case of d�j� vu heading into this month�s Conservative convention.

In an interview, the defence minister described his exasperation with a passionate debate on party leadership rules that turns up like clockwork at the party�s conventions, which are held every two years.

�There�s a bit of a refusal to accept the strong will of the party by bringing this forward time and time again,� MacKay said in an interview from Brussels
.
When MacKay and Stephen Harper agreed to merge the Progressive Conservative and Canadian Alliance parties in 2003, the PCs insisted that each riding would have an equal say in a leadership vote.

The idea was that regions with huge numbers of members, such as western Canada, could not swamp other areas of the country such as Quebec or Atlantic Canada, where riding associations are smaller.

But some elements in the party would like the rules to be closer to a one-member, one-vote system. The NDP has such a system.

�Nobody can describe it as a unifying issue, � MacKay said. �It�s divisive. It pulls at old affiliations and old fault lines and I don�t think we need that.�

Two proposals have turned up in the package of resolutions to be debated at the convention in Calgary starting June 27. One would give more weight to larger ridings in a leadership race, another would go to a straight one-member, one-vote system.

�Democracy is best served when members choose the leader and when leadership candidates seek support from and serve the membership,� reads one resolution.

The proposal was soundly defeated at the 2011 convention in Ottawa, as it was at three previous conventions. Minister of state Maxime Bernier and other Quebec MPs sided with MacKay, as did some party elders such as former Ontario premier Bill Davis and former finance minister Don Mazankowski.

But this time, with the convention in Calgary, a vote could theoretically be closer.

Neither of the current proposals names the sponsoring riding associations. In the past, Immigration Minister Jason Kenney, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird and Ontario MP Scott Reid have backed the change, with Reid emailing out materials on the issue in 2011. The sponsor ridings weren�t named in 2011 either.

�I understand it�s not being put forward openly and honestly because we�re not sure who�s doing it,� said MacKay.
Reid and Kenney were not immediately available for comment.

Fred Delorey, a party spokesman, said only that constitutional resolutions were put forward by four riding associations from two provinces.

For MacKay, changing the rules would represent a setback for the party. He said the current formula requires a leadership aspirant to reach out to the entire country to ensure victory, rather than relying on pockets of regional support.

MacKay refers often to the negotiations between the Progressive Conservatives and Canadian Alliance team to broker their merger.

�I felt very strongly about it then � so strongly, Stephen Harper would know, that our founding constitution would not have happened without this principle,� he said.

MacKay, Bernier, Kenney and Baird are all names that surface as potential successors to Harper, although none of them have said they would seek the leadership.

D�Arcy Barker, a former member of the Canadian Alliance�s national council, noted that the debate is not evenly split between former Progressive Conservatives and former Alliance members.

He said he came around to the concept of the ridings all having an equal voice, arguing that it encouraged more long-term workers, donors and members.

�After �98, I thought the PC method was flawed,� Barker said on Twitter. �After experiencing �03, I saw it built long-lasting party infrastructure.�

# ? Jun 6, 2013 16:33

Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

Helsing posted:

When it rains it pours. Given how restive the Conservative backbenchers are proving to be right now maybe this will finally be the year that the infighting at the Conservative convention hits the boiling point.

Man I can't wait for Convention. CPC Brawl in Calgary '13.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 16:42

The Dark One: Aug 19, 2005; I'm your friend and I'm not going to just stand by and let you do this!

Since the courts have stopped the federal government from merely shutting down safe injection sites, the Conservatives are relying on local NIMBY mentalities to keep them from being opened:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/06/06/pol-safe-injection-site-legislation.html

# ? Jun 6, 2013 16:56

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Team THEOLOGY posted:

Man I can't wait for Convention. CPC Brawl in Calgary '13.

I really hope the Progressive Conservatives wing of the party can hold their own at the convention, but it feels like their support and numbers are dwindling.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:18

Paper Jam Dipper: Jul 14, 2007; by XyloJW

Dreylad posted:

I really hope the Progressive Conservatives wing of the party can hold their own at the convention, but it feels like their support and numbers are dwindling.

I will vote for whichever PC punches John Baird in the face and makes him cry.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:25

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Paper Jam Dipper posted:

I will vote for whichever PC punches John Baird in the face and makes him cry.

I live in his riding.

So, I'll vote whoever we try to get to run in this riding.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:29

colonel_korn: May 16, 2003

The Dark One posted:

Since the courts have stopped the federal government from merely shutting down safe injection sites, the Conservatives are relying on local NIMBY mentalities to keep them from being opened:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/06/06/pol-safe-injection-site-legislation.html

The "Respect for Communities" act, nice :rolleyes:

Aglukkaq is such an awful health minister.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:32

Team THEOLOGY: Nov 27, 2008

Dreylad posted:

I really hope the Progressive Conservatives wing of the party can hold their own at the convention, but it feels like their support and numbers are dwindling.

Mackay is just being his classic maverick self trying on stew up a problem, this was voted on at the last convention and most ridings, even those who would supposedly benefit voted against the one member one vote proposal. Most smart Conservatives will. This is an internal struggle that a fair number of conservatives think about every convention but logic has always prevailed amongst the delegate voters. I see no reason to suggest this time would be any different.

bunnyofdoom posted:

I live in his riding.

So, I'll vote whoever we try to get to run in this riding.

Also that riding, like mine is so blue it doesn't really matter. It's sort of like if Ottawa-Center went Conservative.

Team THEOLOGY fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:33

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Team THEOLOGY posted:

Mackay is just being his classic maverick self trying on stew up a problem, this was voted on at the last convention and most ridings, even those who would supposedly benefit voted against the one member one vote proposal. Most smart Conservatives will. This is an internal struggle that a fair number of conservatives think about every convention but logic has always prevailed amongst the delegate voters. I see no reason to suggest this time would be any different.

Also that riding, like mine is so blue it doesn't really matter. It's sort of like if Ottawa-Center went Conservative.

Provincially it's solid red. First Watson, then Chiarelli.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:49

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

bunnyofdoom posted:

Provincially it's solid red. First Watson, then Chiarelli.

Ottawa is pretty Liberal on the provincial level, which is always good for a laugh whenever Ottawa conservatives complain about Toronto liberals and how Dalton McGuinty (and now [unelected premier] Kathleen Wynne) are ALL THEIR FAULT! :argh:

Though, I have to say, I'm disappointed in Glengarry-Prescott-Russell's Grant Crack didn't run with the slogan "Get hooked on Crack!" Maybe this Rob Ford thing is going to soil that, now.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:57

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# ? May 9, 2024 18:04

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

I'm moving back to Ontario soon so I'm a bit out of the loop, but is "unelected Premier Kathleen Wynne" a thing? Because if so that's pretty gross.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:07

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