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Toady posted:Wow, that last video with Captain Marvel has the same wanton city destruction and even a shot of Superman slammed into the door of a bank vault. Yup, and the other parts were pulled from the Darkseid fight in JLU. Most of this movie is pulled from Superman mythos, which realllly makes me wonder what many of the "purists," mostly elsewhere, are even referring to.
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Jun 17, 2013 03:58
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DangerDummy! posted:In all seriousness, unless you've completely misrepresented what happened, you acted like an absolute dick and you owe your father an apology. Yeah, I misrepresented it but the reactions in here are just hilarious and outstanding. You people are idiots if you think I would just say gently caress THIS MOVIE DAD, drop the mic, and storm out. I said to him "I'm really not enjoying this movie and it's dragging on too long" and he said "yeah, me neither" so we paid for our food and left. We then went back to his place until I could sober up a bit, grilled some chicken and steak, watched Die Hard and part of Lethal Weapon 2, talked about what we've been doing lately, had a goodbye hug, and I left. Honestly a way better father's day than staying to finish Superman, it was probably almost over but whatever, he wasn't enjoying it either. The car ride was largely us discussing what it was we didn't like about the movie, though I can't actually remember what specifically we talked about. We both agreed that by that point though, it didn't really feel like any ending would be satisfactory, so we left. Turned out to be a good decision, I think. I hope you all enjoyed my father's day recap as much as I had living it. Anyways, movie was bad. But post-movie hangout with pops was great, so that made up for it! Yay!
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Jun 17, 2013 03:59
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Then don't try to present yourself as Captain Badass. We are not the idiots here for misunderstanding, you are the idiot for not communicating coherently.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:01
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Wendell posted:Then don't try to present yourself as Captain Badass. We are not the idiots here for misunderstanding, you are the idiot for not communicating coherently. Walking out of a theater is badass now? Or not liking the movie? If you say so mate. I'll leave you to resume your discussion that was shitstormed up by my single post, my good man.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:08
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Captain Invictus posted:When Superman snapped Zod's neck, we just walked right out of the theater. Haven't done that since Nutty fuckin' Professor. The movie was wearing thin long before that point to me, but that scene was just so eyeroll-inducing. Not even a pitcher of booze and a big heaping bowl of barbeque pulled pork nachos made that movie tolerable(though they were delicious~).
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Jun 17, 2013 04:13
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I was reminded me of Joel Siegel yelling "Time to go!" and storming out of Clerks II, shouting about how it was his first time walking out in "thirty loving years!" Sadly, no donkey scene in Man of Steel.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:15
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Darko posted:Yup, and the other parts were pulled from the Darkseid fight in JLU. Most of this movie is pulled from Superman mythos, which realllly makes me wonder what many of the "purists," mostly elsewhere, are even referring to. The destruction in that Captain Marvel fight was explicitly in a mostly empty area and explicitly engineered to make Superman look bad though, and a lot of the major complaints about the final fight appear to be "there's no acknowledgement of the people involved."
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Jun 17, 2013 04:18
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah, I misrepresented it but the reactions in here are just hilarious and outstanding. You people are idiots if you think I would just say gently caress THIS MOVIE DAD, drop the mic, and storm out. I said to him "I'm really not enjoying this movie and it's dragging on too long" and he said "yeah, me neither" so we paid for our food and left. We then went back to his place until I could sober up a bit, grilled some chicken and steak, watched Die Hard and part of Lethal Weapon 2, talked about what we've been doing lately, had a goodbye hug, and I left. Honestly a way better father's day than staying to finish Superman, it was probably almost over but whatever, he wasn't enjoying it either. The car ride was largely us discussing what it was we didn't like about the movie, though I can't actually remember what specifically we talked about. We both agreed that by that point though, it didn't really feel like any ending would be satisfactory, so we left. Turned out to be a good decision, I think. You misconstrued the scenario to make it seem far more ridiculous than the actual sensible events that occurred, and you're surprised people had a reaction to it? Then you called people idiots for believing what you wrote? Are you sure you've actually sobered up? Just got back from the movie. I agree with the general consensus. Amazing action scenes, but pretty poor pacing. I feel like there was a truly great movie in there if there had been a better editor involved.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:18
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah, I misrepresented it but the reactions in here are just hilarious and outstanding. You people are idiots if you think I would just say gently caress THIS MOVIE DAD, drop the mic, and storm out. Just trying to establish that you're both a bad liar AND an oversensitive baby.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:19
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No one asked for a recap of your Father's Day outing, but thanks? Sounds like you have a great parent/child relationship. Next time try to not sound like an asshat.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:20
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Watched the movie, loved it. Everything was just perfect and I like to see for once a Superman with shortcomings having a guy that is always right is boring. Now I've seen a lot of criticism for the destruction in the battles and it strikes me as odd that everyone seems to ignore the fact that all the kryptonians are trained officers while Clark is a guy that never got in a fight before, the moment that they assimilate Earth's atmosphere they're utterly hosed. That's also why I don't have a problem with the ending.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:24
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ImpAtom posted:The destruction in that Captain Marvel fight was explicitly in a mostly empty area and explicitly engineered to make Superman look bad though, and a lot of the major complaints about the final fight appear to be "there's no acknowledgement of the people involved." In the Captain Marvel fight, there are people fleeing in the street, and the buildings are full of lit windows. I'd prefer if Man of Steel had addressed it just so it wasn't a loose end, but I don't mind it being an open question that could have future ramifications.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:24
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ImpAtom posted:The destruction in that Captain Marvel fight was explicitly in a mostly empty area and explicitly engineered to make Superman look bad though, and a lot of the major complaints about the final fight appear to be "there's no acknowledgement of the people involved." I wasn't referring to the damage so much as Superman's personality (compare him lashing out blindly in the JL clips and tossing a regular human away to him only lashing out when his mother was attacked and then from then on out trying his best to protect whoever was around while fighting in populated areas). Superman literally and directly caused billions in property damage because of blind stupid emotion in the JL cartoon. This was when a CHILD tried to calm him down and mitigate it (Captain Marvel is actually like 12) He caused millions when he "unleashed" on Darkseid later on when the area was possibly evacuated. In MoS he mistakenly brought a fight to a populated area and tried to mitigate it, and then was forced into another in a populated area where he had no choice. And some people are complaining that Superman isn't like that/shouldn't have that, when he's been doing stuff like that for 30-odd years. It's weird, it's like people are making up some imaginary character in their own heads. There's like literally no way that the next movie won't have Luthor playing off of this destruction, since that's basically his M.O. in the modern day, so "it playing out/being addressed now" shouldn't really be an issue in anyone's mind.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:27
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I love the people that get bent out of shape about Supes killing Zod. What the hell else was he going to do? He obviously couldn't move him He obviously wasn't going to let him fry that family. Superman always tries to do the right thing, and in this case the right thing was killing Zod. It pained Superman to do it, but he was left with no choice. Superman doesn't have the same obsession with not killing that Batman does. He obviously tries to avoid it, but he's done it before.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:28
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And isn't Birthright's climax a gigantic battle in the middle of Metropolis? Also thank you Darko for posting clips of the World's Finest episode of STAS, man Bruce was so  in that episode.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:31
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Numbers are that Man of Steel made $125.1 million domestic in first four days, $196.7 million worldwide.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:34
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achillesforever6 posted:And isn't Birthright's climax a gigantic battle in the middle of Metropolis? Yeah. Luthor basically used actors, tech and special effects to make a make believe Kryptonian invasion in the middle of Metropolis to make Superman look bad and make himself look awesome. In that Captain Marvel fight, he purposely goaded Superman into destroying his city development to make Superman look stupid and himself awesome. I think he used superhuman violence as part of his Presidential deal too in the comics. That's just generally what he does when he's not stuck in Donner-ville and coming up with land-scheme number 5066621
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Jun 17, 2013 04:35
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So, about that climax, and people's objections to it. Zod was a monster, actively threatening innocent lives, proclaiming an intention to wipe out humanity for no reason, personally goading his killer, and probably attempting suicide when Superman killed him. By any standard that can call killing justified, that was a justified killing. And Superman still felt terrible about it. Quite likely it hurt him more than all those years of alienation and more than the death of his father. If we assume Man of Steel was made with a sequel in mind, for Superman to have blood on his hands isn't a betrayal of his principled stand against killing, but the foundation of those principles. He'll do whatever he can not to have to feel that pain again. He can stand against killing now because he knows what it means to take a life. But at the same time I am totally sympathetic to the people who just plain never wanted to see Clark Kent in a Superman costume snapping somebody's neck.
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Jun 17, 2013 04:47
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Just got back from a second viewing. Still thought it was brilliant, although the occasional lovely dialogue was much more painful this time. The dialogue after Lois and Clark kiss is just.....why? Some observations from some complaints in this thread. Ill spoiler them, I guess. This thread seems all over the place with spoilers. 1. Definitely no babies in the Genesis chamber 2. Lois is brought onto Zods ship because they knew she knew things about Clark and wanted to interrogate her. Even if they knew all the same information, it was obviously a tactical decision. 3. Pa Kents death makes more sense if you pay attention to the dialogue. Superman literally says "I let my father die, because I trusted him" and he seems incredibly guilty over not taking action. Still kind of an awkward scene though 4. Superman definitely snaps Zods neck in the opposite direction of the family. As his head turns the other way from the recoil as his neck breaks, the heat vision has faded and then it shows the family run away. I think thats why some people thought it went in the direction of the family. 5. There are a couple shots during the final battle where you see the interiors of the building they are crashing into and they are evacuated. Thats not to say every single one is therefore empty, but its implied that they mostly aren't populated. There are still people on the street and occasionally a shot after some destruction of people coming out from under cover, unscathed. Regardless, there are many shots of people getting killed in the collateral damage. 6. Perry is definitely characterized, but the other two news people weren't all that much. Its very much shown in a bunch of shots and lines of dialogue that he is slowly becoming aware of Lois's story being true and the reality of that effects him. I think they used this to try and ground the viewer into this situation from the perspective of the people on the ground. Every character, even Martha Kent, is heavily involved in this situation. They are sort of the citizen perspective of this, quite literally, Earth shattering disaster. It might not have worked for some people, but I thought it was great. 7. There are a lot of Lexcorp logos, ALL of them on industrial thing like big rigs, gas tankers, office buildings. I think I spotted 4 or 5 if Im not mistaken It really seems they are setting him for rebuilding the city, as all of this implies he has a huge presence in Metropolis and the worlds infrastructure and probably lost a poo poo ton of money because of Superman and its going to drive his hatred. 8. This movie makes sense, I really dont know how people aren't understanding the plot or think its full of plot holes rendering it "nonsensical". There really aren't any of major concern, everything important plot wise logically makes sense. There might be a few other things I cant remember right now. Oh, and one of the best things about this viewing. Spotted kids all over the theater running around like Superman, trying to fly, pretending to punch things after the movie. I know everybody loves Superman for his principles, but you know as a kid you just loving loved his super powers. Also overheard a kid in the bathroom asking his dad "Why was Superman sad when he killed the bad guy, he won!" and his dad answered "Because he was sad that he had to kill someone, which is bad and he was sad he had to kill the last of his people" and the kid answered a somber "Oh, that is sad." as he hung his head. Im not exaggerating, thats word for word the conversation and it made the whole "Psh, Superman doesn't kill blah blah" argument seem so much weaker, because this actually demonstrated a real, human, emotional reason for not wanting to kill the bad guys, besides just a moral code that Superman automatically follows from birth. It was a pretty touching moment to hear. I know some kids aren't going to have their dad there to explain why he was sad even though he beat the bad guy, but this isn't exactly a Superman movie that children are going to fully grasp. Its very much a grown-ups Superman, despite kids being able to get plenty of enjoyment out of it AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 05:07
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My problem with the climax, is that it just seemed too easy. Did anyone else think that? It didn't seem plausible that a Kryptonian could simply snap the neck of another Kryptonian and kill him, since they are both superhumanly strong. Maybe this was covered already somewhere in the thread but I haven't seen it yet.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:13
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Bongo Bill posted:So, about that climax, and people's objections to it. Basically my only real objecton as a Superman fan (as opposed to someone watching a film for it to be a a film) is that this poo poo is going to make the comics basically unreadable, but that isn't the movie's fault so much as DC's fault. You can count the moments until Superman dramatically kills someone in a much much stupider way on one hand with fingers left over, because this is exactly the sort of thing DC is going to mimic and mimic dumbly.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:19
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ImpAtom posted:Basically my only real objecton as a Superman fan (as opposed to someone watching a film for it to be a a film) is that this poo poo is going to make the comics basically unreadable, but that isn't the movie's fault so much as DC's fault. You can count the moments until Superman dramatically kills someone in a much much stupider way on one hand with fingers left over, because this is exactly the sort of thing DC is going to mimic and mimic dumbly. So, business as usual, then?
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Jun 17, 2013 05:21
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people are making things up regarding Superman fights because in previous movies he never actually fought anyone (unless you count awkwardly tumbling through the air playing tickle with Sun-Nuclear-Whatever-Man in SM4)
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Jun 17, 2013 05:24
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Press conference with Man of Steel cast recorded for the Nerdist podcast: http://www.nerdist.com/2013/06/nerdist-podcast-man-of-steel-press-conference/ Toady fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 05:25
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Celeris posted:My problem with the climax, is that it just seemed too easy. Did anyone else think that? It didn't seem plausible that a Kryptonian could simply snap the neck of another Kryptonian and kill him, since they are both superhumanly strong. I'm pretty sure I can snap another persons neck if I put my mind to it. To each other they are just normal dudes. Normal dudes who would probably walk out of the theater in disgust.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:25
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ImpAtom posted:Basically my only real objecton as a Superman fan (as opposed to someone watching a film for it to be a a film) is that this poo poo is going to make the comics basically unreadable, but that isn't the movie's fault so much as DC's fault. You can count the moments until Superman dramatically kills someone in a much much stupider way on one hand with fingers left over, because this is exactly the sort of thing DC is going to mimic and mimic dumbly. Well, Superman has killed in the comics, and in Superman II, he tortured a powerless man by crushing the bones in his hand before tossing him off a cliff. This negative reaction is so weird to me because it wasn't like Superman walked up behind Zod and murdered him in cold blood. It was suicide-by-cop. It's like calling a police officer a murderer if the gunman pointed his weapon at a bystander.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:30
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ImpAtom posted:Basically my only real objecton as a Superman fan (as opposed to someone watching a film for it to be a a film) is that this poo poo is going to make the comics basically unreadable, but that isn't the movie's fault so much as DC's fault. You can count the moments until Superman dramatically kills someone in a much much stupider way on one hand with fingers left over, because this is exactly the sort of thing DC is going to mimic and mimic dumbly. Man are you kidding? DC goes out of their way to avoid associating their comics with things people actually like from other media. See; the entire Teen Titans franchise.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:31
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Sounds to me like some people are MAD about Man of Steel!
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Jun 17, 2013 05:39
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a lot of people seem to be ignoring one of the aspects at the end too The fact that Zod is literally about to melt a family into molten slag with his super laser eyes (which were awesome by the way) and is apparently strong enough to resist being bodily moved but whose neck is about as frail as any other mans (in comparison to Supes at least) so its not like Superman just decided there was no other way, there was a pretty huge time constraint in the whole "try to protect people" area of things
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Jun 17, 2013 05:40
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I'm not spoiler-blocking this whole post so just skip it if you haven't seen the film. Spoilers below. I am gonna get wordy as gently caress about why that ending sits unwell with me. I didn't storm out at the neck-snap because I'd been spoiled and knew it was coming. I'm glad I didn't, because the movie had earned a lot of goodwill with me up 'til that point and it earns a fair bit back past that point. (Like I said. Best two final lines in a superhero film ever.) But I could probably spend another few thousand words on why it's a poor choice. People bring up contemporary comics and JLU, but JLU had Superman explicitly refusing to kill Luthor at the end of that story arc - preventing the bad future, and implying that the bad future is partly if not entirely predicated on him doing so. A Superman who's started killing people left and right is the primary antagonist in the Injustice video game. Superman refusing to kill someone has become such a stock cliche in the comics for years that even I'm sick of them hitting the same story beat - not that I want Superman to kill, I just want them to stop going "but maybe this time he really will do it." Just last year, a direct-to-video movie was released that had as its entire premise a conflict over whether or not the wanton use of lethal use of force was justified - based on a comic book released in the mid-2000s that is held up as one of the best Superman stories of that era. Likewise, in Superman 2, Superman blithely tosses helpless criminals into a bottomless pit. (EDIT: And in Superman Returns he throws Kal Penn into space.) There's plenty of stories I can pull up from the comics before that where the writers have Superman cross that line. My distaste for Superman killing isn't tied to any particular era, or to some ironclad rule of storytelling that never gets broken (in long form serial storytelling, eventually every rule gets broken.) I just don't think he should do it. I think it runs counter to what I like about Superman. I've talked before about how I don't think Superman should take the easy way out, but the other consideration is that I don't want the writer to take the easy way out either. I think the plots that result from a Superman who has to try a little harder and think a little faster because he's trying to solve a problem with a minimal amount of bloodshed are far more satisfactory than Superman beating someone because he's stronger. You can compare it to Doctor Who - the best Doctor stories are ones where he wins with plays-fair cleverness or by convincing a monster to stop being a monster, rather than him just saying that his sonic screwdriver's bigger than the other guy's. (Seriously, I will write that Superman/Doctor Who crossover for one whole dollar. Call me, DC.) The reason the initial battle against in Smallville is satisfactory to me is a) because Superman does make some effort to save lives and take the fight elsewhere (he punches the big dude into a trainyard which you can say he knows is abandoned because he's got super-senses, he tells people to get inside, he saves that soldier from falling, etc,) and b) because Superman gets the edge by breaking Zod's helmet and later Faora's. It's his upbringing and dedication to Earth, combined with genuine cleverness, that gives him the edge there. Likewise, Superman surrendering and putting his trust in the military, over and over again, is rewarded with them coming to an accord and teaming up to take down the World Engine. Superman sacrifices a piece of his heritage to open the Phantom Zone, and destroys a good chunk of the Fortress. He takes on the World Engine alone, even though he'll be especially vulnerable to it, because he's simply the best man for the job (he can fly around the world faster than the military can, for example, and the World Engine has to be destroyed before Zod's ship can be returned to the Zone.) He is legitimately brave, sacrificing, and exemplifies the value of good teamwork and trust. That's a good fight too. With Zod? They punch each other through a shitload of buildings. Superman doesn't make an effort to safeguard civilian lives even though I think it would have increased dramatic attention to combine a Zod who's mastering his powers by the second with a Superman who has to keep his attention divided. They just bounce off each other, wreck a good chunk of city, then the finale happens. Even then, it's handled well - better than it's ever been handled before. Superman's anguish is the antithesis of the cool psycho action hero. But it's still an unsatisfactory climax for me. Superman doesn't choose Earth over Krypton in that moment because he's already done so in the fight on board the Fortress. He doesn't really need to kill Zod by established story logic since there's no reason he can't just use, say, the crashed Fortress's Phantom Drive to toss Zod in with his compatriots - or to use Lois Lane's respirator to rob Zod of his powers, or have Lois or someone use Lois' pistol in a literal use of Chekov's Gun. I'd have preferred any of these since they'd use more sophisticated storytelling. The reason Superman kills Zod is because the writer and director of this movie wanted that to be the conclusion to the big blowout fight. They wanted to make a statement with it. I think they made the wrong one. I'll understand if you disagree, if you can try to understand where I'm coming from. (I felt the same way at the end of Dark Knight where not ten minutes after Batman upholding his One Rule with the Joker, he breaks it for Harvey Dent. It would have been far better to have Gordon kill Dent. Then Dent's dead and discredited and Gordon's due to jail unless Batman gives of himself to take the rap for both of them. Dark Knight, even with this big flaw, is still an exemplary superhero film. Likewise I think Man of Steel has more than enough good to outweigh this flaw, but drat, what a big flaw.) Frankly, I think you could have cut that last fight out. Maybe I'll experiment around with Nero and the blu-ray and do just that and see how it holds up. That last fight really does feel like a bridge too far on several levels. I do hope that they're setting up dominoes for the second movie with it - if the next movie shows Superman hewing to his principles better and finding a better way that lethal force against Lex Luthor (and it will be Lex Luthor) then I'll accept this ending better as the foundation of Superman's principles. But I can't judge a movie that isn't even written yet. I can only judge what I've seen. Before people start calling me a nostalgic old man (I'm 36, I'm not old  ) I came to Superman in 2003. Contemporary Superman's all I've known. I actually hate the Silver Age overall because I hate, hate, hate its portrayal of Lois Lane - where I come from, Lois and Superman are married and she's his partner, thank you. One of the things I love about Man of Steel is how it incredibly manages to run a lap around Superman telling Lois who he is - in Man of Steel Lois knows from the word go, and that's why I can't hate the movie. It just has what I consider to be a very frustrating mistake. It still beats the pants off Batman blowing up an entire factory full of people with a remote controlled Batmobile in 1989. And even then, people still know that Batman overall has that One Rule. I think things will be fine.
Mike From Nowhere fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 05:41
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Gazaar posted:I just got back from seeing this and it's great. Every complaint I've gone back and read has made me roll my eyes. Shut the gently caress up and enjoy an exciting movie that finally makes Superman interesting. The film has definite flaws, but being boring is not one of them. I'm in the same mind set as you. Amazingly fun film. Enjoy it.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:47
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Mike From Nowhere posted:I'm not spoiler-blocking this whole post so just skip it if you haven't seen the film. Spoilers below. I am gonna get wordy as gently caress about why that ending sits unwell with me. I didn't see what happened as taking the easy way out. His hand was forced by the villain.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:53
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Toady posted:I didn't see what happened as taking the easy way out. His hand was forced by the villain. Yes, but the writer writes the villain, and every sequence of events that led up to that point. The writer was the one who declared that Superman, in that exact moment, had to do that. I'm not mad at Superman, because Superman isn't real. I'm not really mad at Goyer/Snyder/Nolan either - I'm just disappointed because I find it an unsatisfactory conclusion to an unsatisfactory fight. I'm operating on the assumption that Goyer and Snyder did that because they wanted to make an artistic point, which I disagree with. EDIT: I'm going to quote my Twitter pal Tom Foss here. Tom Foss posted:this is one of the best tactics to write a compelling Superman story: pit aspects of his character against each other. Stop the villain or save the civilians? That's where my dissatisfaction lies. I'll understand it if you disagree, but that's the kind of conclusion to a Superman story I like because it's the most interesting to me. I just like that kind of conclusion to moral dilemma storytelling in general. Mike From Nowhere fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 06:02
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I get that point. I think this situation works on a story level because it forces Superman to destroy the last of his kind and to demonstrate how far he's willing to go to save the people he loves.
Toady fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 06:11
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Darko posted:
 Now I know what I need to watch next.e: Batman's pecs make up half his upper body. PaganGoatPants fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 06:16
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Another Goyer interview. One part that jumped out at me:quote:It's been interesting seeing the reviews coming in. There's a big divide between the reviewers in their 40s and 50s and 60s and the reviewers that are in the Ain't It Cool or Empire world. There's a real generational divide in the response to the film, which we were, to a certain extent, aware that that might happen.
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Jun 17, 2013 06:19
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I find it really funny that so many of the people in this thread who decided they didn't like the movie sound like they were barely paying attention throughout. "The guy who played superman blah blah" "That lady who was looking for him, what's her name?" "I hated how Zod was so angry! GOSH!" "The plot made no sense because of these reasons which I'm either not listing or also make no sense" It's pretty funny. Oh well I'll just continue enjoying the movie and humming the super awesome soundtrack like I was already doing. That Supes vs. Captain Marvel clip is hilarious. I will have to save that for any time someone says there was too much destruction in MoS. That was like 60 seconds of fighting in that clip and I think there were at least a dozen 9/11s. edit: also did anyone else notice the parallels between Jor-El/Zod and Dr Hamilton/Col. Hardy? Jor-El and Zod, a scientist and a warrior, disagreed and fought each other and in the end it lead to their deaths and the destruction of Krypton. Hamilton and Hardy, a scientist and a warrior, worked together - and both died - but they managed to SAVE their planet in doing so. \/\/\/ edit++ \/\/\/: uuuugh only total grognards say "grok" berserker fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 06:23
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Toady posted:I get that point. I think this situation works on a story level because it forces Superman to destroy the last of his kind and to demonstrate how far he's willing to go to save the people he loves. That part I grok, but I think it's already shown at that point by having Superman sacrifice his space pod and risking his life against the World Engine. At no point in that last fight is it really in doubt that Superman's going to choose Team Earth. I think it's gilding the lily by the time Superman throws down with Zod. I think that last fight just goes too far. I really do think you could cut it and make it a better film. I'll revise my opinion if it works as setup for Man of Steel 2 and Superman being a better superhero by the end of it. Hopefully everyone else will be on board instead of going "ugh, Superman's wussing out."
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Jun 17, 2013 06:28
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DFu4ever posted:I love the people that get bent out of shape about Supes killing Zod. What the hell else was he going to do? He obviously couldn't move him He obviously wasn't going to let him fry that family. Superman always tries to do the right thing, and in this case the right thing was killing Zod. It pained Superman to do it, but he was left with no choice. How about that Superman is not a real person with agency and it is up for the writers to construct the situations and dilemmas that he falls into. Disney death is overused, but it is way better than opening the can of worms that is the "heroes don't kill" discussion. Why not make Zod a victim of his own arrogance and have any of his allies kill him? Or any character from Earth?
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Jun 17, 2013 07:01
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:50 |
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The weird semi-comparable parallel the discussion brings to mind is the grognard reaction to Optimus Prime executing Megatron and Sentinel Prime.
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Jun 17, 2013 07:05
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