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NoiseFace posted:Assuming that Monobear isn't lying in his file (He has no reason to, after all) we know that Koizumi was killed by a strike to the head. But would a blunt force blow like that produce that much blood? It's not just pooled underneath her, it's everywhere. It's spattered way out in front of her and smeared on the door. To be fair, it might just be artistic license and it's been an hour since she was killed, but for being hit over the head, it just seems like an excessive amount of blood. It might not have killed her immediately, which would have caused the heart to continue pumping blood through the wound, increasing th volume of blood present at the scene.
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Jun 29, 2013 17:51
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NoiseFace posted:Assuming that Monobear isn't lying in his file (He has no reason to, after all) we know that Koizumi was killed by a strike to the head. But would a blunt force blow like that produce that much blood? It's not just pooled underneath her, it's everywhere. It's spattered way out in front of her and smeared on the door. To be fair, it might just be artistic license and it's been an hour since she was killed, but for being hit over the head, it just seems like an excessive amount of blood. Head wounds are known to bleed excessively right?
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Jun 29, 2013 18:15
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I hate to digress, but Nagito's good luck powers activated again. Had a murder not occurred, he would most likely starve to death in his situation. Remember, only Koizumi (and Hinata) even tried to feed him. But now that an investigation is underway and a trial is coming soon, he will have to be untied. Now he can go himself, refresh himself in a shower, etc. Stupid good luck powers, they give him an alibi too!
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Jun 29, 2013 18:43
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Athar1007 posted:Had a murder not occurred, he would most likely starve to death in his situation. Remember, only Koizumi (and Hinata) even tried to feed him. So who would be the murderer in this case, Hinata?
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Jun 29, 2013 18:50
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Updating my thoughts on this since we got the new info (time of death 3:30, water bottles missing, something [likely clothes] in the trash, footprints) My last post was way too big, so I'll keep it brief. Killer->Kuzuruyuu->Saionji->Souda. Only way it could have happened, really. Kuzuruyuu wants nothing to do with it, Saionji was distressed. Anyone else would have called it in. Hinata and Souda are absolved completely due to time of death. Ibuki and Mikan came from the other direction together. They came at 3:30 while Souda and Hinata were looking for people. Akane and Nidai have a mutual alibi. Akane came a little after 3:30, and she says she met Nidai on the way (ie: not near the beachouse). Akane would've leaked blood everywhere, so it wasn't her. If Nidai was near the beachouse, Akane would tell us. To me, he's off the hook, but the footprints and (assumably) girl's clothes will exonerate him (he barely fits into guy clothes). Gundam saw us as we headed off. We were there at 3:00, we would've seen him pass by. Wasn't him. Nagito still tied up so far as we know. This leaves Sonia, Nanami, and Peko. Nanami came first of the three. Swimsuit is dry. Bottles in the back being missing imply someone washed off. Most likely not our killer. Peko. Sopping wet. Huge red flag. Experienced with wooden weapons. She's definitely suspect, and her story is currently unverified. (Question to those keeping track: Would Peko know anything about Kirakira? Having trouble figuring that out.) Sonia. Planned the event and was last to show up. Prime suspect on that alone. Wetsuit would be easy to wash off with bottles. Possible match to footprints? Knows about Kirakira and the masks. Could've worn a uniform, put on the mask, hidden her hair and made the kill. Even if a photo was taken, it would be an anonymous attacker. Takes off uniform, washes off wetsuit. Let me know if I missed something that could implicate or exonerate someone.
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Jun 29, 2013 18:52
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Random_Username posted:(Question to those keeping track: Would Peko know anything about Kirakira? Having trouble figuring that out.) She was right there when the conversation about Kirakira took place and even commented on how weird it was to enjoy such things.
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Jun 29, 2013 18:58
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Random_Username posted:
One of the major complicators of the case is that you aren't allowed to change in the beach house. Therefore, whoever did it has to have done it in whatever they're wearing now.
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Jun 29, 2013 20:47
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Random_Username posted:Updating my thoughts on this since we got the new info (time of death 3:30, water bottles missing, something [likely clothes] in the trash, footprints) My last post was way too big, so I'll keep it brief. I don't think we can rule out the possibility that the killer can leave the scene and then discover their own kill. And if this isn't the case, I'd love to see them try to game it. (Person A discovers body, tells others. Preliminary investigation is conducted using only Person A to examine the scene. The prime two suspects are then sent in.)
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Jun 29, 2013 21:15
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This is merely conjecture, but I'd like to try to predict how a part of the investigation/trial might go down. 1) The group hypothesizes that the culprit used the missing water bottles to wash the blood off. 2) Pekoyama becomes the main suspect. 3) Someone (most likely Nanami) suggests that if she really was swimming, she would have smelled of salt water. 4) The group asks the person with the best nose (Akane) if they can recall what Pekoyama's scent was. 5) Akane was unable to smell anything other than the overpowering scent of blood coming from her head wound. Again, this is just taking shots in the dark.
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Jun 29, 2013 21:32
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Owari's the killer. Weapon is her own head.
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Jun 29, 2013 22:24
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Two things I've noticed that I don't think have been posted in the thread: (if they have been, I apologize) 1. I haven't gone back and checked yet, but I'm almost positive that the mask is Boo-ko (sp?) from Heretic Angel (star) Mochi Mochi. 2. In the first game, a sword was used like a baseball bat; what if in this game, a baseball bat is used as a sword? (a.k.a. one of my higher reasons for thinking that Peko is the killer)
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Jun 29, 2013 22:48
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Everyone is talking about Peko using the water to wash off, but she could have also been using the water to create an alibi for herself, as it's hard to kill someone when you've been swimming around the entire island. Alternatively, though it contradicts my above theory, explains how the killer could have been someone we didn't see in the area. Someone said it earlier; that the only way to get to the beach house without passing by the diner was to swim to it. Peko was the only one swimming beforehand. With this theory, which is probably more likely, Peko becomes an important witness as she was the only one known to be on the water. It's likely that she saw someone swimming away from the scene of the crime.
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Jun 30, 2013 00:43
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NoiseFace posted:Assuming that Monobear isn't lying in his file (He has no reason to, after all) we know that Koizumi was killed by a strike to the head. But would a blunt force blow like that produce that much blood? It's not just pooled underneath her, it's everywhere. It's spattered way out in front of her and smeared on the door. To be fair, it might just be artistic license and it's been an hour since she was killed, but for being hit over the head, it just seems like an excessive amount of blood. The huge spread of it may seem a bit odd, but yes, head wounds do bleed a lot. I found this out when I was a kid and hit my head on something and felt totally fine so I was all ready to go back to playing, until I casually rubbed my head and realized OH NO THERE'S BLOOD EVERYWHERE AAAAH Arkannoyed posted:Owari's the killer. Weapon is her own head. I think I like this even better than the Nidai playing whack-a-mole theory.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:00
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Bifauxnen posted:I think I like this even better than the Nidai playing whack-a-mole theory. I almost want it to be true just so we can see it illustrated in the climax interface at the end.
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Jun 30, 2013 01:13
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I really, really doubt that Owari is the killer even though death-by-headbutt would be nice. She has food, so why would she want to leave before beating Nidai? It is probably Peko or Sonia, though Kuzuryuu will likely yap loudly enough to become a suspect again.
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Jun 30, 2013 03:44
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CandyCrazy posted:The grey scale is probably applied relative to the cause of death. Togami was stabbed all across his torso, so his whole picture was greyed out. Mahiru was bashed over the head, so only the upper half of her body was grayed out. This is a bit of a stretch, but I wonder if there were three people at this beach house, one of them being Koizumi. What if the two other people there aside from Koizumi had been holding a baseball bat. The other person not holding the bat starts to bicker with the one holding the bat, attempting to pull it out of the other person's hands. That's when Koizumi tries to break up the fighting, but then the person trying to pull the bat away from the other person finally pulls it out from the other person's hands and Koizumi is accidentally struck with the bat? Like I said, it is a stretch, and the wound is on the back of her head, but maybe she tried to leave to go get help? Sorry, just hypothesizing. ^-^
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Jun 30, 2013 05:48
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Popo posted:She was right there when the conversation about Kirakira took place and even commented on how weird it was to enjoy such things. Peko shoots up as a suspect then. The mask is going to be a crucial clue to the case, and if it's just Hinata, Sonia, and Peko who know about it, then Peko makes the most sense (as planting the mask would frame Sonia). It is just those three who know, right (Not counting a potential real Kirakira)? Still too early for anything definite, but I'd say 60% sure it's Peko, 35% sure it's Sonia, 5% it's a wildcard we can't easily predict. Groghammer posted:One of the major complicators of the case is that you aren't allowed to change in the beach house. Therefore, whoever did it has to have done it in whatever they're wearing now. Don't think it counts as changing if your swimsuit is under your clothes. Souda tells Hinata that he already has his swimsuit on underneath, while Hinata better find a bathroom since he can't change clothes in the beach house. Kangra posted:I don't think we can rule out the possibility that the killer can leave the scene and then discover their own kill. And if this isn't the case, I'd love to see them try to game it. (Person A discovers body, tells others. Preliminary investigation is conducted using only Person A to examine the scene. The prime two suspects are then sent in.) I can't say for sure, but I can say that the kill itself isn't a discovery. In DR1 Mondo makes the kill, but it's not until 3 other people find it that the alarm goes off. Besides, even if it was the case, what reason do Kuzuruyuu or Saionji have to revisit the body once they dispose of the evidence? They'd be the only options available, and going back and forth from the crime scene is too risky to try to invoke a rule that they don't even know is true.
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Jun 30, 2013 07:42
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luchadorable posted:2. In the first game, a sword was used like a baseball bat; what if in this game, a baseball bat is used as a sword? (a.k.a. one of my higher reasons for thinking that Peko is the killer) HoneyAltoid posted:I hadn't thought of it being Nidai but after reading everyone's theories, it lines up well with what happened. Just gotta wonder what the heck was it about that game that made him kill her, I'm actually surprised. Did it show any sort of clue that Nidai played the game before?
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Jun 30, 2013 08:31
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:Being seen playing the game is the actual motive. Anyone who witnesses someone else playing the game now has a reasonable assumption the player is looking for a motive to kill and can easily come to the conclusion of "better get him/her before he/she gets me!" This is what I thought too, that the game was just made to create discord, until Koizumi was positioned exactly like the dead girl in Twilight Syndrome. If you hadn't played the game, you wouldn't have been able to do that. And if you had played the game, you would realize that it made no sense and have no reason to kill. The motive hidden in the game (that was the theme after all; "hidden connections") was either directed at Koizumi (I'm assuming mostly because she was acting extremely weird before she died, and because of the photos thing) or the murderer.
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Jun 30, 2013 11:38
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Kangra posted:I don't think we can rule out the possibility that the killer can leave the scene and then discover their own kill. And if this isn't the case, I'd love to see them try to game it. (Person A discovers body, tells others. Preliminary investigation is conducted using only Person A to examine the scene. The prime two suspects are then sent in.) Yeah of course that's how it works, it'd be far too easy to game otherwise. Imagine: three people in a group together discover a body. The announcement doesn't go off. One of those three is the murderer. Similarly, if the announcement does go off, all three of those people are automatically innocent. It's dumb to think that could be allowed to happen. The killer has to count among the discoverers, but probably doesn't count until they leave the scene and return.
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Jun 30, 2013 13:46
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TheGreatGildersneeze posted:I'm pretty sure the contents of the game giving the player a motive is a bunch of misdirection from Monobear. Being seen playing the game is the actual motive. Anyone who witnesses someone else playing the game now has a reasonable assumption the player is looking for a motive to kill and can easily come to the conclusion of "better get him/her before he/she gets me!" I can't agree. You'd have to be ludicrously dumb and insanely paranoid to commit murder based on someone was seen playing that game - before you played it for yourself to find out what it was. None of the cast members don't come across as having that kind of mindset. No, not even Kuzuryuu - paranoid maybe, but he doesn't seem dumb enough to kill before playing the game. Oowari is dumb, but not paranoid.
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Jun 30, 2013 13:50
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I can't agree. You'd have to be ludicrously dumb and insanely paranoid to commit murder based on someone was seen playing that game - before you played it for yourself to find out what it was. None of the cast members don't come across as having that kind of mindset. No, not even Kuzuryuu - paranoid maybe, but he doesn't seem dumb enough to kill before playing the game. Oowari is dumb, but not paranoid. My thought is that there's got to be more to Twilight Syndrome than what we saw when Hinata played it. People have been saying that maybe depending on who you are or what turn you play the game in, you see certain parts of it, (Hinata saw Day 2 and Day 4) but I feel like either Hinata missed something or did something wrong, and it's why we didn't see the other parts of the story. The huge "DULL START" message at the Game Over screen definitely gave off a Bad End vibe. Hinata's playthrough could have been a "DULL START" since it skipped Day 1, and that's when the group finds the dead girl in the music room. Maybe Koizumi or the culprit figured out how to get the True End in Twilight Syndrome, and that's why things have turned out this way, with her being murdered in the same fashion as E-ko.
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Jun 30, 2013 17:39
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skepsipol posted:The huge "DULL START" message at the Game Over screen definitely gave off a Bad End vibe. Hinata's playthrough could have been a "DULL START" since it skipped Day 1, and that's when the group finds the dead girl in the music room. So you're saying Hinata might have played some kind of New Game+ then? If you're right, finding out who'd played the game beforehand could be a quite significant factor, and it could also exonerate Chiaki- after all, what SHSL Gamer wouldn't at least check to see if a game had a NG+ Mode?
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Jun 30, 2013 19:06
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Different playthroughs for different players are very plausible- if Kuzuryuu did play the game (and I don't think he'd be so shaken by Hinata's suspicion that he did if he didn't) it seems like his weird envelope came from it or else is somehow related to the information he got, which would in either case imply a different playthrough from Hinata's. A New Game+ is one idea, but alternatively, a particularly sadistic twist that I wouldn't put past Monobear would be that it's on a straight-up timer and gradually reduces the amount of information it dispenses to you the longer you wait. "Dull Start"- i.e. you were too slow to start playing and now it will barely tell you anything. I'd guess that a second look at the arcade machine might be a part of our investigation once we give the crime scene a good look over. I'll bet Souda is going to be forced to make himself useful and take it apart to see how it works. Nanami could be useful but I wonder how much she'll be capable of if the game doesn't seem to offer the player any agency.
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Jun 30, 2013 19:29
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CommissarMega posted:So you're saying Hinata might have played some kind of New Game+ then? If you're right, finding out who'd played the game beforehand could be a quite significant factor, and it could also exonerate Chiaki- after all, what SHSL Gamer wouldn't at least check to see if a game had a NG+ Mode? A New Game+ option is possible, but based on how little we got from Hinata's playthrough in terms of information, it seems unlikely. A New Game+ usually adds more content or fits everything together, and it feels like we're still missing huge chunks about what happened to those -Ko's. I just can't figure out where Hinata could have went wrong when he played. It didn't seem like there was any sort of choice to make during his playthrough that would have caused the Bad End.
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Jun 30, 2013 21:51
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I don't think of Akane as a likely candidate for several reasons. The first is that she was covered in blood when she entered the diner, and while a clever person might have planned this, might have planned the fight with Nidai to throw off suspicion, nothing we've ever seen from Akane suggests cleverness is a personality trait she has in high amounts. The second is that you would think if she would kill someone, it would be with a blunt object, so it obviously can't actually be her. Also, how do we know the baseball bat is the real murder weapon? 
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Jun 30, 2013 22:30
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With the top row of water bottles being missing (as someone pointed out earlier), it's not likely that the murderer would be walking around with blood on him/her, either.
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Jun 30, 2013 22:46
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Some have theorized that Peko (or one of the other women who showed up in swimwear) committed the murder and then washed the blood off herself using bottles of water. There's a part of this speculation I don't understand - why would she waste time dumping small bottles of water onto herself when she could just hop in the ocean and be clean in a few seconds? The ocean's right there, isnt it? I think the bottles are missing for some other reason.
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Jun 30, 2013 22:57
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Huge Liability posted:Some have theorized that Peko (or one of the other women who showed up in swimwear) committed the murder and then washed the blood off herself using bottles of water. There's a part of this speculation I don't understand - why would she waste time dumping small bottles of water onto herself when she could just hop in the ocean and be clean in a few seconds? The ocean's right there, isnt it? I think the bottles are missing for some other reason.
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Jun 30, 2013 23:04
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Huge Liability posted:Some have theorized that Peko (or one of the other women who showed up in swimwear) committed the murder and then washed the blood off herself using bottles of water. There's a part of this speculation I don't understand - why would she waste time dumping small bottles of water onto herself when she could just hop in the ocean and be clean in a few seconds? The ocean's right there, isnt it? I think the bottles are missing for some other reason. Maybe that counts as polluting the ocean? 
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Jun 30, 2013 23:05
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Huge Liability posted:Some have theorized that Peko (or one of the other women who showed up in swimwear) committed the murder and then washed the blood off herself using bottles of water. There's a part of this speculation I don't understand - why would she waste time dumping small bottles of water onto herself when she could just hop in the ocean and be clean in a few seconds? The ocean's right there, isnt it? I think the bottles are missing for some other reason. My guess is that aside from walking out in the open covered in blood and taking the risk of being spotted in that condition, you would probably drip blood in the sand and leave footprints leading into the ocean, making the evidence of your escape way too noticeable. Hypothetically, if Pekoyama is the culprit and she had done something like this, her alibi would hold no water.
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Jun 30, 2013 23:10
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skepsipol posted:My guess is that aside from walking out in the open covered in blood and taking the risk of being spotted in that condition, you would probably drip blood in the sand and leave footprints leading into the ocean, making the evidence of your escape way too noticeable. I hadn't considered that the murderer might worry about someone else seeing them. And they probably would worry, especially if they knew that the girls were planning to show up soon. That makes sense. Actually, that makes me wonder if the murderer was someone who wasn't aware the girls' plans at all. Either that, or the murder wasn't really planned ahead of time. If they did know, they sure cut it close and took a huge risk. e: Never mind that last bit. Looks like there was about an hour between the murder and the planned meeting, so I guess it wasn't that close. At least not in a universe where people can execute ridiculously convoluted plans in minutes. Huge Liability fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 23:32
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My problem with Pekoyama is that... it just seems really obvious, and we haven't even started the Investigation proper yet. Like, really obvious. That's never really happened before other than maybe [DR1] the murder in DR1 Chapter 3 being a little "too" helpful before the corpses were found. This feels a bit more like DR1 Chapter 2 with the framing job. What would the finale look like, "Pekoyama waits in ambush in the closet after arranging a meeting, Pekoyama bashes Koizumi's head in, grabs bottles of water, washes off, throws them in the trash, wanders over to the diner with a "hey everybody", the end"? That doesn't really seem like that'd be all there is to the case. Although I do like the B-ko E-ko P-ko thing someone pointed out earlier. There's also the locked shower room door which hasn't come up yet and I don't think they'd throw that in this chapter for no reason (other than adding a "The killer washed off the blood at the beach house!" "No, the wash room was under construction!" "But the missing water bottles!" for you to refute). The closet in the back also mentioned "surfboards on shelves" earlier, though I don't know how that could be relevant right now (real murder weapon?). I wonder about the no littering rule, since there's obviously that mask and bat thrown on the ground, I wonder how strict they are about it.. though that could be avoided by Koizumi having brought and dropped them. Maybe it doesn't apply inside. edit: vvvvvvv Fair point, that makes sense. maketakunai fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 23:38
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maketakunai posted:I wonder about the no littering rule, since there's obviously that mask and bat thrown on the ground, I wonder how strict they are about it.. though that could be avoided by Koizumi having brought and dropped them. My guess is that it's a meta-gamey thing that stops us from asking why the murderer didn't just bury the evidence or toss it into the ocean every time.
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Jun 30, 2013 23:42
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maketakunai posted:My problem with Pekoyama is that... it just seems really obvious, and we haven't even started the Investigation proper yet. Like, really obvious. That's never really happened before other than maybe [DR1] the murder in DR1 Chapter 3 being a little "too" helpful before the corpses were found. This feels a bit more like DR1 Chapter 2 with the framing job. What would the finale look like, "Pekoyama waits in ambush in the closet after arranging a meeting, Pekoyama bashes Koizumi's head in, grabs bottles of water, washes off, throws them in the trash, wanders over to the diner with a "hey everybody", the end"? That doesn't really seem like that'd be all there is to the case. Although I do like the B-ko E-ko P-ko thing someone pointed out earlier. I wouldn't say Peko's the most obvious choice for culprit here - it only seems that way because we're meta-gaming a bit and assuming that Kurzuyuu and Saionji are red herrings. As for the investigation/trial, I imagine that the first order of business will be to figure out the secret of the Twilight Syndrome game. Then, Hinata will need to rule out Kurzuyuu and Saoinji as suspects, and then it'll be time to build a case against the real culprit.
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Jul 1, 2013 00:00
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DaveWoo posted:I wouldn't say Peko's the most obvious choice for culprit here - it only seems that way because we're meta-gaming a bit and assuming that Kurzuyuu and Saionji are red herrings. I have the feeling the fact that we can't actually see her sword since it's all wrapped up will be relevant at some point in the game, if not right now
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Jul 1, 2013 00:33
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The other problem here is that we've had several days to think over every clue we have and to analyze everything that's going on. By now, this hypothetical player who was playing DR2 is likely done with the game already and not giving it nearly the same amount of thought.
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Jul 1, 2013 00:46
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There is evidence pointing at Peko. There isn't any pointing at anyone else. She is either the killer or one of the suspects who will be cleared during the trial. I still expect Kuzuryuu to demonstrate his amazingly poor survival instinct and become a suspect via bravado, though.
gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 03:54
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We haven't even started the investigation proper yet! Of course we don't have evidence pointing toward someone else; we barely have any evidence in the first place! Just the stuff we can glean from over-analyzing the background, and half of that we don't know anything important about.
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Jul 1, 2013 04:13
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Hold on, if they really have had years worth of memories erased, how are Tanaka's hamsters that he has on him all the time still alive? He said so himself that hamsters only live a short amount of time- could they really be alive? Not that I'm doubting they had their memories erased because I'm sure they did- just wouldn't it be funny (more so sad) if Monobear replaced his hamsters without him knowing? Just a thought! Sorry, I know it was a pretty stupid one D: (oops now I'm acting like Mikan...)
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Jul 1, 2013 05:37
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