|
Gregen posted:Except that V's body is shielded from all harm for the duration of his soul's stay in the hells. That means his body will not be crushed by falling rocks. This doesn't mean that he will not suffocate to death once the "depossession" is over and the protection ends as well. (Of course it's in the interests of the fiends that he survive, since the other two have some time to take as well.)
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
Brainamp posted:No. V is a tool, not the objective. V could be a tool to get the fiends to the rift-world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
Gregen posted:Except that V's body is shielded from all harm for the duration of his soul's stay in the hells. Right, but it's a snarl hole. Tossing Xykon's phylactery into the one in the city (probably) wouldn't have been instantly harmful, much like tossing V's frozen body into this one (probably) wouldn't be instantly deadly. It's more a worry of "what happens after the damage immunity expires" type of thing, especially if you're in an alternate universe with an ostensibly-god-killing-abomination. e: Although I guess in that case V wouldn't have to worry about her soul anymore! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
Ursine Asylum posted:It's more a worry of "what happens after the damage immunity expires" type of thing, especially if you're in an alternate universe with an ostensibly-god-killing-abomination.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 20:08
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:You're assuming a lot of things that may not be true. I covered it with "ostensibly".  But that's kind of my point, nobody has any clue what's on the other side of the snarl; just the knowledge that 70 years ago whatever was on the other side was hostile enough to kill things that wandered too close to it. I don't actually think V will end up falling in this time around, but the damage immunity thing from the Fiends (while 'accidentally' making sure she ends up falling through) does seem like the kind of thing they'd find amusing if they weren't expecting to actually need V after this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:(Of course it's in the interests of the fiends that he survive, since the other two have some time to take as well.) Brainamp posted:No. V is a tool, not the objective. These two cherry picked quotes sum up why it doesn't seem likely the fiends would place V's body in harm's way in the immediate future. Although, once the fiends have exhausted all or most their time with V's soul, all bets are off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 20:17
|
|
|
IMJack posted:Bets on strip #900 being the entire party + Linear Guild being pulled through the rift? Or going back up to ground level in the pyramid elevator.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
DoctorTristan posted:I'm absolutely certain that's not going to happen. Burlew is a big fan of villains that work together - he even has a long article on his site about it. The whole shtick with these three is that they've realised that the Lawful/Chaotic squabbles were only holding them back and that if they set those aside then they can achieve far greater things for the benefit of all. Going from subverting a D&D cliche to reasserting it just doesn't feel like something he'd do. And for a good reason, the 'villains will always betray each other' trope comes from the ' evil will always ultimately destroy itself' kind of reasoning that is really overly simplistic approach to morality. And yeah, I was totally fooled by the soul thing, because I thought control of the soul will alive does imply that they get to control the body as a result, but it really isn't in the wording of the contract. And while an overly literal interpretation of the contact is a typical Faustian thing, this got to be the first instant were the victim actually got of better as a result (for a given definition of better anyway).
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Wow. Being helpless and forced to watch as his friends probably die? He is in hell. Powerlessness is literally the worst thing that can happen to him, it's what drove V mad before. That's brilliant.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 00:44
|
|
|
Speedball posted:Wow. Being helpless and forced to watch as his friends probably die? He is in hell. Powerlessness is literally the worst thing that can happen to him, it's what drove V mad before. That's brilliant. They're not going to die, they'll be fine. Gates don't inherently blow up when destroyed, that's just Girard and Soon's particular defence mechanisms. They're just going to weaken the fabric of reality/help doom an entire planet. Something that would net three devils a whole bunch of souls.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 00:48
|
|
|
We really seem to be rapidly approach Belkar's death/"death" with the way things are going. That just seems like it's going to be the inevitable outcome of all of this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 00:49
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:They're not going to die, they'll be fine. Gates don't inherently blow up when destroyed, that's just Girard and Soon's particular defence mechanisms. They're just going to weaken the fabric of reality/help doom an entire planet. Something that would net three devils a whole bunch of souls. Soon's defensive mechanism wasn't an intentional detonation, I don't think. I mean, it was intentionally destroyed, but I don't think anyone expected it to blow up quite so spectacularly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 00:56
|
|
|
What makes me curious now, though, is their line in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html It was easier to imagine that they had some specific purpose in mind when it seemed like they could take control of V to accomplish something. It's a lot harder to imagine that they would specifically need the ability to take her out of action for a short period of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
Every time someone links a comic, I end up reading like the next 30 or 40 strips. If I didn't stop myself, I'd end up reading the whole archives again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 01:34
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:They're not going to die, they'll be fine. Gates don't inherently blow up when destroyed, that's just Girard and Soon's particular defence mechanisms. They're just going to weaken the fabric of reality/help doom an entire planet. Something that would net three devils a whole bunch of souls. Sure, you'll get a lot of souls in one big batch, but it's not sustainable. Wouldn't it be better for them to keep the planet non-doomed and farm souls forever?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 01:38
|
|
|
prefect posted:Sure, you'll get a lot of souls in one big batch, but it's not sustainable. Wouldn't it be better for them to keep the planet non-doomed and farm souls forever? I think it is safe to assume the 3 fiends have more information than us and the oots have. And they seem to be long term thinkers. They didn't want V's soul because they had something bigger in mind. Something big is going to happen that will change the story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 01:48
|
|
|
Colonel Cool posted:What makes me curious now, though, is their line in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html It's possible that the fiends are still being deceitful. Could be that they are able/allowed to take control of V's body, but are choosing not to because they don't yet need to and don't want V to realise it's a possibility. For what it's worth, it's the chaotic fiend who says "Putting another soul into it would be a gross violation of our contract"; he/she/it would certainly have no qualms about lying to V here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 01:59
|
|
|
DoctorTristan posted:It's possible that the fiends are still being deceitful. Could be that they are able/allowed to take control of V's body, but are choosing not to because they don't yet need to and don't want V to realise it's a possibility. For what it's worth, it's the chaotic fiend who says "Putting another soul into it would be a gross violation of our contract"; he/she/it would certainly have no qualms about lying to V here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 02:18
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:Except that they never lie. Except that they already did lie, telling V that the Soul Splice might influence V's effective alignment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 02:37
|
|
|
BrainWeasel posted:Except that they already did lie, telling V that the Soul Splice might influence V's effective alignment. Might.... Might not. It is considerably different language than "a gross violation of our contract".
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 02:39
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:Except that they never lie. Part of Rich's alignment mythology seems to be that Lawful creatures don't lie, and scrupulously truthful fiends is much funnier than the reverse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 02:44
|
|
|
Right, that is why when you testify you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. A clever person can twist the truth a thousand different ways without ever lying.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 03:02
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:They're just going to weaken the fabric of reality/help doom an entire planet. Something that would net three devils a whole bunch of souls. I assume that last time, the Snarl ate the whole of creation, most of the outer planes included. Surely? Otherwise the Snarl's existence would be common knowledge! You don't exactly lose a Prime Material Plane and nobody notices. Plus, even if the Snarl eats the planet, they don't get souls - the Snarl consumes them. I'm really not sure what their plan could possibly be here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 03:15
|
|
|
To everyone asking if they can chop up their time. It doesn't matter if they can. They won't because it's not narratively satisfying to have to do bookkeeping to anticipate what's going to happen. 3's come up in stories a lot because they set patterns, that can then be broken, feared, anticipated, whatever, on the third one. It's also quite clear that the last one will be 3 minutes and 6 seconds(31 rounds?) As to the fiends betraying each other and rich's view of villians as people with motivations, you have to remember that archfiends represent fundamental distinctions in the very idea of morality. It is cosmically necessary that their coalition fall apart, as soon as one side has something to gain over the others.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 03:24
|
|
|
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html, with what we know now, suggests -- strongly suggests, I think -- that they want all the Gates destroyed. Can't possibly guess at what their reason for that is, but it's really the only thing that tracks with what they say there, the fact that they want neither the Order nor Xykon to win (both factions' victory conditions involve at least one stable Gate under their control), and how they acted just now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 03:42
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:I assume that last time, the Snarl ate the whole of creation, most of the outer planes included. Surely? Otherwise the Snarl's existence would be common knowledge! You don't exactly lose a Prime Material Plane and nobody notices. Maybe the Snarl just ate the world, not the prime material? The gods could be very local ones.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
There may be flying ships, but I don't think this comic is going to suddenly go Spelljammer on us. For all intents and purposes the comic's always referred to the planet and the material plane as equivalent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 04:53
|
|
|
That's generally how D&D handles things. At most, the local star system is the Prime Material. The outer and inner planes are adjacent, but separate and independent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 06:33
|
|
|
Johnny Aztec posted:Right, that is why when you testify you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. A clever person can twist the truth a thousand different ways without ever lying. I used to speculate that, just by flubbing my grammar, I could lie my rear end off while under oath and NO ONE would be the wiser. "No, sir, I didn't steal nothin. And I never shot nobody."
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 07:37
|
|
|
That would be a lie though, because surely you SOMETIMES shot nobody.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 11:04
|
|
|
Well, it kind of did. While under the effects of the Splice, V committed a whole bunch of evil acts which he probably wouldn't have committed if he weren't convinced the splice was making him do it. E: I can't make Quote work. This is in response to Brainweasel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 14:05
|
|
|
The only "evil" thing V did was create undead(and destroy an entire family line) Killing the dragon was self defense/defense of family, and being snappy with people is hardly evil. I bet if you asked Good type dragons about that, They would probably be cool with having a ton of their eternal enemies destroyed. VV Well, it MIGHT. Also, they go on to say that the easiest way to make people do bad things is to have them believe they aren't responsible/in control. So, in effect, it DID have an influence on his alignment. Just not in the way that V heard it as. Johnny Aztec fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 3, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 15:41
|
|
|
Whybird posted:Well, it kind of did. While under the effects of the Splice, V committed a whole bunch of evil acts which he probably wouldn't have committed if he weren't convinced the splice was making him do it. Debatable, but irrelevant. What matters is that in this comic, Impy McImperson says "You guys weren't kidding when you said the elf's alignment might be affected" and they say "Actually, we were." They're on record telling V something they believed to be untrue -- thus we can't say "they never lie." I'm still not expecting Cedrik to violate the contract, mind you. But anything else is fair game. And the terms of the contract obviously permit some wiggle room anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 16:52
|
|
|
BrainWeasel posted:Debatable, but irrelevant. What matters is that in this comic, Impy McImperson says "You guys weren't kidding when you said the elf's alignment might be affected" and they say "Actually, we were." They're on record telling V something they believed to be untrue -- thus we can't say "they never lie." They said it might not that it absolutely would. Per the letter, not the spirit, of what they said they didn't lie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:12
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:They said it might not that it absolutely would. Per the letter, not the spirit, of what they said they didn't lie. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html "You may be experiencing some feedback. You know, alignment-wise." "Do not let them influence your actions! YOU are the one in control!" All they ever told V was that the voices he was hearing were side effects, but he was still in complete control.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:21
|
|
|
I love how Sabine is just chilling there and barely acknowledges V's presence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:I love how Sabine is just chilling there and barely acknowledges V's presence. Yeah, for now. They will definitely interact within the next few strips, which will give us some juicy exposition about the fiend's plans from it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:46
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:"You may be experiencing some feedback. You know, alignment-wise."  God dammit, Rich, how did I never notice that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:51
|
|
|
Earnestly posted:Yeah, for now. They will definitely interact within the next few strips, which will give us some juicy exposition about the fiend's plans from it. Can a wizard like V cast a sending to say the linear guild? Or have Sabine do something similar? I got the impression from that strip where she tells Nale that she's with him all the way that she's actually more loyal to Nale than the 3.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
Sending has a 10 minute cast time, so it would be a little on the late side.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2013 17:57
|
|