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So, the original devs of Outcast bought the rights to the game back. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/195475/Original_authors_has_acquired_Outcast_IntellectualProperty.php I smell a Kickstarter.
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Jul 2, 2013 23:13
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Megazver posted:So, the original devs of Outcast bought the rights to the game back. fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu One of the finest games ever. Would back.
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Jul 2, 2013 23:20
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I love Belgium, I love waffles and I love Outcast.
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Jul 2, 2013 23:39
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To anyone who hasn't been following the Double Fine game, Broken Age.. they ran out of money because the game design and Tim Schafer's vision spiraled out of control for lack of a better explanation. So now they're breaking the game in half and selling the first half/a game in development on Steam to recoup the costs to finish the 2nd half of the game. Bare in mind they only asked for $400,000 and were over funded to the tune of $3.3 million dollars.Tim Schafer posted:Would we, instead, try to find more money? You guys have been been very generous in the tip jar (thanks!) but this is a larger sum of money we were talking about. Asking a publisher for the money was out of the question because it would violate the spirit of the Kickstarter, and also, publishers. Going back to Kickstarter for it seemed wrong. Clearly, any overages were going to have to be paid by Double Fine, with our own money from the sales of our other games. That actually makes a lot of sense and we feel good about it. We have been making more money since we began self-publishing our games, but unfortunately it still would not be enough. Personally, I feel like it's an embarrassing misstep for highly funded Kickstarter games. But then again, the whole thing was kind of an experiment to begin with in Double Fine's original pitch, since nobody knew what the outcome would be.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:33
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I guess even being an experienced developer doesn't make you immune to massive overspending. At least this is just Plan B instead of the full on nuclear meltdown that I feel like some people are predicting for some future big kickstarter.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:43
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I guess everyone has to try the episodic process these days. I think it kinda sucks that Doublefine's gone this route for the reasons it had. I can't say I'm upset or anything that extreme, but, Jesus, they're really running head first into a wall if they have run out of money, again, at this point in the production. There have to be some massive managerial cock-ups to overshoot this much. How do you not learn from past projects and mistakes? Jesus, it's just a point and click adventure. I know they're running on Brutal Legend's engine, and not making a new one like in Broken Age, but I have my doubts about the Massive Chalice game getting produced at anywhere near the level they described. I have really enjoyed the documentaries, though. That alone was worth the kickstarter. Also, how the holy heck are InXile and Obsidian going to make their amazing, in-depth, massive rpgs with just a scoonch of money more than what Doublefine received? Are they (if they actually do it) just better developers and production managers? Drifter fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 01:00
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Drifter posted:I guess everyone has to try the episodic process these days. I think it kinda sucks that Doublefine's gone this route for the reasons it had. Brad Muir, who is heading up Massive Chalice, kind of indirectly said on Giantbomb's E3 livestream that he is a better numbers/game mechanics guy that Tim and that they were going to plan out the project better. It also helped that they didn't add a ton of stretch goals to overshoot the scope of what they actually intended and dumped a bunch of money into a documentary Edit: In response to your edit, yeah, I think their Kickstarters were just planned a bit better with their reward costs and stuff and where the money was going. Broken Age's KS just seemed like "yeah add that to a thing that's a cool reward" without a lot of forward thinking
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Jul 3, 2013 01:04
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Awesome, now the "lol Kickscammer" friends on Facebook will probably act even more annoying than they were already.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:08
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The adventure game didn't have any stretch goals either. Those weren't a popular thing in kickstarter yet. They seemed to have accounted for all of the initial kickstarter related expenditures properly and also accounted for the documentary properly. The game didn't even enter pre-production until the kickstarter campaign ended. It was a failure in project scheduling and a tendency to over-design that derailed Broken Age.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:09
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Drifter posted:I guess everyone has to try the episodic process these days. I think it kinda sucks that Doublefine's gone this route for the reasons it had. Well, it's not quite episodic. They plan on releasing the rest of the game to the early access adopters for free. Also they haven't built a new engine for Broken Age, they're using a licensed engine. Drifter posted:Also, how the holy heck are InXile and Obsidian going to make their amazing, in-depth, massive rpgs with just a scoonch of money more than what Doublefine received? Are they (if they actually do it) just better developers and production managers? Hard to say until their games come out unfortunately. Double Fine is the only one that's having in-progress videos of their kickstarter produced so it's the only one that we really have seen the inner workings of. One other thing to note is that after all the fees, reward fulfillment, and budget for the documentary was subtracted, Double Fine was left with $2.23 million for the game.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:09
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The Broken Age kickstarter was a big, messy sandbox to begin with, I think. 'Give us money and we'll make an adventure game. We have no idea what yet, though.' I'm a little disappointed in this turn of events, but I'm more concerned about how it's going to affect DF financially-- how many people with any real interest in a new DF adventure didn't pledge to the Kickstarter? Of them, how many won't buy in on the trimmed-down-alpha-maybe-thingy in Early Access? I'm worried that they might be lucky to break even on this project, and what might happen to them if the whole thing does go down the toilet.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:13
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A good project manager goes a lo~ng way. It appears Broken Age had a bad project manager. Hopefully Obsidian and InXile and others have better people doing that job.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:15
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Their solution for Broken Age is a fair solution for all, but I'm concerned about much they think they're going to make for it through Steam Early Access. I imagine a huge fraction of people who would be willing to purchase Early Access already donated to the Kickstarter.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:18
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It's mildly disappointing but I don't personally see it as that huge of a deal as long I'll have access to the full game once finished.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:22
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The adventure game didn't have any stretch goals either. Those weren't a popular thing in kickstarter yet. They seemed to have accounted for all of the initial kickstarter related expenditures properly and also accounted for the documentary properly. The game didn't even enter pre-production until the kickstarter campaign ended. It was a failure in project scheduling and a tendency to over-design that derailed Broken Age. I think the physical rewards were a bit of a surprise for them with how much they took out of the backer funds, though. I think it was said somewhere it cost around 500,000$ just to ship everything? I mean, that, KS/Amazon fees, then the documentary fee had to still take a decent chunk out, something like 33% of their entire funds. With how it seems like they just kept increasing the scope of the game, it looks to be poorly managed or thought-out from the get go.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:24
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If they pitched a 400,000.00 game, and that's what people backed, they should have built a 400,000.00 game, instead of blowing the cash on misguided design direction / physical rewards / etc.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:25
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Baby Sathanas posted:Their solution for Broken Age is a fair solution for all, but I'm concerned about much they think they're going to make for it through Steam Early Access. I imagine a huge fraction of people who would be willing to purchase Early Access already donated to the Kickstarter. This is actually a really good point, I'd wager most if not all of the KS backers paid for the game upon release and some will likely throw a fit if this early access version isn't counted as release meaning if they want to play it they'll have to effectively back the project again.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:28
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njsykora posted:This is actually a really good point, I'd wager most if not all of the KS backers paid for the game upon release and some will likely throw a fit if this early access version isn't counted as release meaning if they want to play it they'll have to effectively back the project again. Backers don't have to pay, it says it in the update
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Jul 3, 2013 01:29
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Verdugo posted:If they pitched a 400,000.00 game, and that's what people backed, they should have built a 400,000.00 game, instead of blowing the cash on misguided design direction / physical rewards / etc. People also backed a bunch of stretch goals.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:34
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Kibayasu posted:Well, it's not quite episodic. They plan on releasing the rest of the game to the early access adopters for free. You're arguing(?) semantics with me here and I don't know why. Episodic means split into parts, just that; nothing about buying the full set or paying for pieces as they get made. They took Moai and six-million dollar manned it; it has been reworked to hell and back, they did more than simply customize it. Nobody cares how much money they had, only that they blew through it multiple times. Verdugo, I think the project should have grown with additional money put into the project, but no one reevaluated what the project was. I know the physical tiers took money away, but I'm not really remembering stretch goals concerning the game like -adding 'X' more levels or something like that. I don't think there was anything that would have specifically broken the bank with what they ended up with. Also, three years? 2015? For this thing? To let the process spiral that out of control is insane. Drifter fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 01:35
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The Double Fine game was one of (if not the?) kickstarter to start the trend, so it's disappointing to see it flounder. I hope the inXile and Obsidian RPGs pull through because otherwise that might be a death knell for crowdfunding studio-style games. It's also disappointing because I like Double Fine's work and I understand why they want to be free from a publisher but they can't rely on crowdfunding if they operate like this.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:51
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Funny how they announce this right AFTER their second Kickstarter bidding ends.Fergus Mac Roich posted:People also backed a bunch of stretch goals. They had stretch goals?
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Jul 3, 2013 02:00
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I thought they did? My mistake. I could've sworn they had some explicit statements that they were expanding the project while the kickstarter was still running.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:02
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Trapezium Dave posted:It's also disappointing because I like Double Fine's work and I understand why they want to be free from a publisher but they can't rely on crowdfunding if they operate like this. Doublefine has ALWAYS had problems getting ideas to turn into actual games, no matter where the source of money came from. Most of their games are usually carried over the finish line by another company after the first one ran out of patience. DF is great at making games, just not great at... well, actually making them I guess. I think they would benefit more from following a publisher's business plan instead of trying to make their own.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:02
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Isn't Broken Age like a 5 hour adventure game? How could they have used all the money? Also, did they know this before they put up a new kickstarter?
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Jul 3, 2013 02:03
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illiniguy01 posted:Isn't Broken Age like a 5 hour adventure game? How could they have used all the money? Also, did they know this before they put up a new kickstarter? I would say the writing was on the wall for a while. The humble indie bundle they did a while back was viewed as an additional fundraiser/avenue to sell Broken Age before release.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:07
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I can't read the kickstarter update, how big a shortfall are we talking? Some news outlets are reporting that they would have to axe seventy-five percent of the game if they don't secure more funding, which is absolutely insane if true.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:07
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E: ^- Harlock quoted it on this page. E2: Oh, I guess not that specific part.Tim posted:I think I just have an idea in my head about how big an adventure game should be, so it’s hard for me to design one that’s much smaller than Grim Fandango or Full Throttle. There’s just a certain amount of scope needed to create a complex puzzle space and to develop a real story. At least with my brain, there is. Also of note in there that this isn't planned to be a little five hour game any more -- that's basically the problem. I think some people are reading the issue a little wrong - they haven't run out of money. They were going to run out of money before the game was finished at the rate they were spending it relative to game progress. From what I gather, they're basically at the point that the tech is done and it's a matter of developing the content itself. Now that they have a 1/5 or whatever of the actual game in a state nearing completion, they can make much better estimates about how long the rest of the production is going to take. Based on the videos, I'm guessing the big hangup is just producing enough art to cram into the thing -- you can't rush that without sacrificing a lot (or just cutting scenes out.) I'm not trying to excuse the fact that they should have done a better job of scoping this thing in the first place, but from the point they're at now I don't see how doing the early release business is really a bad option. The only thing backers really have to complain about is the fact that it's been delayed, and when it comes to game development and untested processes I think there's a limit to how much you complain. I do wonder in a morbid sort of way how many backers will die before the game comes out, though. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 02:08
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This should be worrying to people who backed their second game. They didn't even really say what it was. It was pretty much "We are going to make a game, we don't really know what it is going to be, but give us lots of money".
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Jul 3, 2013 02:13
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illiniguy01 posted:This should be worrying to people who backed their second game. They didn't even really say what it was. It was pretty much "We are going to make a game, we don't really know what it is going to be, but give us lots of money". I wouldn't be too worried because its a team led by Brad Muir and he did a good job with Trenched/Iron Brigade. I think he has a solid idea on how to budget the game with the given amount of money he's got.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:15
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illiniguy01 posted:This should be worrying to people who backed their second game. They didn't even really say what it was. It was pretty much "We are going to make a game, we don't really know what it is going to be, but give us lots of money". I'm not worried at all about Massive Chalice, especially after the video interviews and discussions.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:16
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I guess this shows how good project management is especially important in Kickstarter-funded games. With the traditional publisher route you can (at least theoretically) go ask for more money and development time - with Kickstarted games, not so much. Or maybe I'm wrong, would people give them more money if they started a second Kickstarter to finish the game? (Ignoring that its probably forbidden by Kickstarter's TOS)
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Jul 3, 2013 02:18
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AxeManiac posted:Doublefine has ALWAYS had problems getting ideas to turn into actual games, no matter where the source of money came from. Most of their games are usually carried over the finish line by another company after the first one ran out of patience. DF is great at making games, just not great at... well, actually making them I guess. I think they would benefit more from following a publisher's business plan instead of trying to make their own.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:19
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^- Art. And remember that they are not making the game they originally planned for. Even then, one gets the impression the 'plan' was more of a 'hey let's give this a shot' than anything really solidly budgeted. Smol posted:(Ignoring that its probably forbidden by Kickstarter's TOS) It's not I personally wouldn't back it again. I bought Brutal Legend on PC when it was on sale and haven't actually installed it yet, if that counts.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:21
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Megazver posted:So, the original devs of Outcast bought the rights to the game back. Outcast is a game I never played but I always wanted to because it sounded really goddamn ambitious for its day. Kinda surprising that the IP was all that sought after, I always thought the game was kinda obscure. That's neat though.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:35
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Bobby The Rookie posted:I feel that describes Broken Age back in the original Kickstarter more than it does Massive Chalice. Brad Muir seems to have a pretty clear vision and set of design principles for MC, whereas nobody really knew what the hell Broken Age was going to be from the beginning. I dunno, I had a better idea of what kind of game Broken Age was, even if we didn't know a thing about, you know, everything else. The setting and characters and whatnot. For Massive Chalice, we basically just knew he wanted to make a game that was kind of like Xcom and Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem and this and that, but that could be anything. That being said, I am very sad that I just plain forgot to back Broken Age, because all that sounds right up my alley, no matter how it turns out. Probably.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:42
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I don't want to come across as praising the approach here because I personally loving hate videos on the internet as a replacement for text, but if you cared to sift through the poo poo there was plenty of information about Massive Chalice available by the time the kickstarter ended. Brad personally answered the one question I had about it that I hadn't seen covered elsewhere.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:52
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MinionOfCthulhu posted:I dunno, I had a better idea of what kind of game Broken Age was, even if we didn't know a thing about, you know, everything else. The setting and characters and whatnot. For Massive Chalice, we basically just knew he wanted to make a game that was kind of like Xcom and Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem and this and that, but that could be anything. The Massive Chalice campaign began simply with the hook that the gameplay was going to be inspired by turn-based tactical games (with an eye towards permadeath, ala X-Com), but as it's progressed I think they've shown a pretty clear trajectory for where the game is going to eventually wind-up, just the finer details of how exactly the game's combat is going to work haven't really been revealed fully yet, which is fine.
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Jul 3, 2013 03:00
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Everdraed posted:Dropsy is awesome, and I really hope your Kickstarter ends up being successful. The promotional video looks great, as does the content you've done for the new thread so far. I don't know if there's any way I could provide a helping hand, but if there is I'd gladly offer it. Oh man.  I'll definitely let you know if I can think of anything.
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Jul 3, 2013 03:01
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Shalinor posted:What would happen is the mods watching this thread closely would go "hmm, that was ill advised," strip the link, and then do something punitive to you. I was also scared about getting Gaspy Conana in trouble. Since this is GBS we're talking about, Abe might issue a thread challenge or just skip that step. Would a thread for the Kickstarter in Games be allowed if Gaspy Conana asks permission?
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