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Wolpertinger posted:That would be a clever murder technique - as a group runs into their door, throw a bracelet in after them just before the door shuts. Take out three birds with one stone! I think you mean five birds. The group with the missing bracelet would be unable to get through their secondary doors.
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Jul 3, 2013 17:06
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BlazeEmblem posted:I think you mean five birds. The group with the missing bracelet would be unable to get through their secondary doors. Also, the one actually throwing the bracelet might not make it into his/her door. Meaning potentially everyone could die. 
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Jul 3, 2013 17:19
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John Lee posted:Hey, I've heard China referred to as the Middle Kingdom several times; it's certainly uncommon, but not unheard of in English. It's called a calque. Ironically, the English word "calque" is a loan word, while the English phrase "loan word" is a calque.  Also, I think "Middle Kingdom" is a calque of the Chinese name for China, which also literally translates that way and in fact uses the same characters as the Japanese name, just pronounced differently.Anyway, the translation in that bit is slightly awkward, but that's not so important if it's all supposed to be a joke. Overall I think the translation here is mostly pretty solid, even when it takes liberties.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:33
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Terper posted:Also, the one actually throwing the bracelet might not make it into his/her door. Meaning potentially everyone could die. This is actually a surprisingly efficient way to break the game entirely in an instant - even if you and your match-ups survived, you could do a single AB game, tops - after that, you'd have randomized bracelets and your pairs would be most likely all trapped forever between the primary and the secondary doors forever, so everyone left would die when you needed to enter a chromatic door again.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:44
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Wolpertinger posted:This is actually a surprisingly efficient way to break the game entirely in an instant - even if you and your match-ups survived, you could do a single AB game, tops - after that, you'd have randomized bracelets and your pairs would be most likely all trapped forever between the primary and the secondary doors forever, so everyone left would die when you needed to enter a chromatic door again. The bracelets that the dead people were wearing would come off, and you'd be able to collect them and distribute them as necessary so the survivors could go through doors. There would just be a lot of automatic alliances because so few people would be voting.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:00
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Nidoking posted:The bracelets that the dead people were wearing would come off, and you'd be able to collect them and distribute them as necessary so the survivors could go through doors. There would just be a lot of automatic alliances because so few people would be voting. I think the problem Wolpertinger was pointing to was the fact that the doors only unlock if a puzzle's solved, so even if the bracelets come off, they're still stuck between the doors.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:03
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Crepuscule Adepte posted:I think the problem Wolpertinger was pointing to was the fact that the doors only unlock if a puzzle's solved, so even if the bracelets come off, they're still stuck between the doors. I fail to see how this would be the case, three people aren't necessary to solve the puzzles. Unless I misinterpreted what you're saying.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:18
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RefinedUndefined posted:I fail to see how this would be the case, three people aren't necessary to solve the puzzles. Unless I misinterpreted what you're saying. If you were to kill people with spare-bracelet-shenanigans just before the primary doors closed, the puzzle that they were to do would not be completed; therefor the door would remain locked and the bracelets would be trapped. Then the next time the bracelets are randomized, the survivors become (for example) three singles, one person as one half of a certain pair color, and another person as one half of another pair color. Nobody can go through doors, nobody gets to vote in the next AB round, everyone loses.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:25
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It would be simple enough to set up a fail-safe for an event like that, where all appropriate Chromatic Doors unlock when voting is complete, whether the puzzles have been solved or not. Of course, there's no reason to assume such a fail-safe is in place. The only reason to find out is to test it. 
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Jul 4, 2013 03:56
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Edit: Nevermind, misunderstood the post I was replying to.
whitehelm fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 06:46
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whitehelm posted:There already is. When the following AB round finishes anyone stuck in between doors dies because none of that group voted. I think he more means the failsafe being needed with them being stuck between doors, dead, and no one is able to get their bracelets, as the chromatic doors only become unlocked after the completion of the puzzle that they never reached - so the bracelets are trapped between the two doors, and this prevents any future people paired with those bracelets from going through any future chromatic doors, leading to every single remaining person dying. As far as I can tell, if ANY person or group gets stuck in the chromatic doors for not enough or too many bracelets, even just a single person, it could easily cause a chain reaction that would kill off all the other people too - from that point on every single person part of a pair or a matching solo with anyone who's trapped in the chromatic doors will die. They can't get the three bracelets needed to enter another door, dooming them.
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Jul 4, 2013 06:54
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Wolpertinger posted:This is actually a surprisingly efficient way to break the game entirely in an instant - even if you and your match-ups survived, you could do a single AB game, tops - after that, you'd have randomized bracelets and your pairs would be most likely all trapped forever between the primary and the secondary doors forever, so everyone left would die when you needed to enter a chromatic door again. Why go through all that trouble when you could get the exact same result by just, say, jumping out of the airlock a second before the primary door closes. Your two companions get stuck between the primary and secondary doors, you get penalized, and soon everyone else is dead too. Still having a bit of trouble seeing what the point of that would be, though...
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Jul 4, 2013 11:34
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Having just finished the game I can now read and post in this thread Glad to see an LP of this game being done, primarily because I played the EU version and as such missed out on the Dick Van Dyke level 'Cockney' accent of G-OLM. I also did all the puzzles on hard with occasional FAQ help for some strange reason - having seen all the Easy dialogue I missed I'm now kicking myself...
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Jul 4, 2013 15:10
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VLR OST: [Consternation] No... This isn't real... I knelt down beside Alice's body and pressed a shaking hand to her throat. No pulse. Her skin had already turned pale. The thing in front of me looked like a human being, but it wasn't being a human any longer. Why had this happened? I clenched my fist, took one last breath, and turned. Listen in: [English/Japanese] I was looking for Quark on floor B and couldn't find him. So I came back here and... Well, you know the rest. ... You better not be thinking I did it! Well, suspicion often falls on the first to discover a crime. She'd already been murdered when I got here! How do you know she was murdered? What...? C'mon, it's obvious. Does that look like an accident or a suicide to you? How do you know the weapon was a knife? What...? All you can see from here is the handle. For all you know, it could have been an ice pick or some kind of tool. W-Well, yeah, I guess that's true... But, I mean, c'mon... Who wouldn't look at that and assume it's a knife? If you wanna be like that, then the last person to see Alice is the person you should be looking at! Who was the last person to see her? This wasn't supposed to happen... You promised me we'd catch them together... Don't do this... Clover... I'll find out who killed you, and I'll... I'll... Hey, Clover. Don't you talk to me! I'm sorry, Alice... Clover! Come back! Listen in: [English/Japanese] Even if you caught up to her, she'd never tell you anything. ...? Think it through. There are two possibilities. Either Clover killed her, or she didn't. If the former is true, then I doubt she would confess. If the latter is true, then I imagine she'll be just as reticent. After all, Alice and Clover seemed to know eachother. In fact, they seemed quite close. It seems safe to assume that Clover is currently very suspicious of all of us. I doubt she would open up to anyone right now. Did you do it? Not again... Well, if you really want to suspect me, please, go ahead. I'm beginning to feel rather accustomed to it. I would ask you to consider my motive for killing Alice-- specifically, the fact that I have none. Well, yes, but none of us do. None of us have ever met Alice before, right? So why would we want to kill her? But only if the murder had a motive beyond, well, murder. What do you mean? Do you remember when we found the old woman? It seemed clear that her killer was Zero Sr., and that they were one of us. There is every reason to think the same person murdered Alice. Perhaps this person plans to kill us one by one. Perhaps the only reason we are here is so that Zero Sr. can kill us at his leisure, in a world of his own creation. Wh-Why would anyone do such a horrible thing...? Presumably because they enjoy killing. Zero Sr. seems to be rather... disturbed. Hold on a minute. That doesn't mean they're one of us. There could be a tenth person hiding out somewhere-- Well, why not? There's no way Zero Jr. wouldn't notice that. And if he did notice? I really don't think he'd just let something like that slide. But isn't Zero Jr. just an AI without a body? What could he do? Maybe, but Zero Sr. has a body. Do you really think they'd really just let a tenth, unwanted participant just run around, murdering people? Well, what if the tenth person is Zero Sr.? Do you remember? He made it quite clear that the real Zero was one of us. Dio? Luna? K, perhaps? Or maybe Clover? There was always Tenmyouji... Wait a minute... There was one person I'd forgotten... It seemed like a bit of a stretch to think a kid could kill someone of Alice's size, though. That meant there were five real suspects. Dio, Luna, K, Clover and Tenmyouji... Hmm. Where had Quark gone? Listen in: [English/Japanese] All players please enter your votes. If no vote is recorded before the deadline has passed, any non-voting parties will automatically ally. A blunt but effective way to make the point. What do you mean? We should get to the warehouse. It seems clear he feels no compunction about killing us, should we disobey the rules. As such, I recommend we follow them. I'll find out who did this to you... I promise... VLR OST: [Sinisterness] Listen in: [English/Japanese] Probably Tenmyouji and Clover. Wasn't he a pair? Doesn't Quark need to go with him? As long as one person in each pair is there, it should be okay. Sharing their destiny, huh? Pretty much. After all, you're a pair, but your partner is... Well, I'd rather not say it. Yeah... I know. What? I don't understand what you mean... Well, if Alice was still alive, you'd have a hard time choosing "betray". If you'd picked "betray" you could have killed her. 'Course, that's not really a problem now... I would have chosen "ally" regardless. I mean... Sigma's going to be my opponent. Really...? Oh ho! This is interesting! If one of you guys picks "betray", we are gonna get a show! Dio! You even gotta ask? "Ally". Of course. Right, Phi? I don't know about that. It's a difficult question. What...? But it's not as simple as just choosing "betray" either. If K decides to ally for some reason, then you'd end up with 9 points. Seems easy to me. You're planning on betraying me, aren't you Dio? As soon as you go through that door, it will be only the two of you in that room. I've no doubt you could overpower Phi, if you had the desire to. Give me a little credit! No one has more gentlepoints than me. You think someone of my stature would resort to violence?! The nerve! What...? This is just a thought, but... Why don't all of you promise to choose "betray"? Then you wouldn't have to worry about anything? If you knew the other person was going to betray you, you'd have no choice but to do the same... That seems pretty... negative for you, Luna. Nothing to apologize for. We appreciate your suggestion, and we'll take it into consideration. But unfortunately I don't think it's a very good idea. See, my goal is to beat this game. Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it. When I say I want to beat it, I mean defeat it, completely. I want to get us all out of here. We haven't beat the Nonary Game until we're all out of this place. I guess we won't all be getting out anymore, though... Oh... You mean Alice... Yeah... ... At any rate, all of us choosing "betray" every time is hardly ideal. We'd never escape. Then what are you going to do? Hmm... K needs to choose "ally". It's the only way. How will you make sure I do that? I have no guarantee that you'll choose "ally" as well. Would you do it if I could give you that guarantee? Well, yes, I suppose so. You promise? Yes. Good. Let's do this. Huh? There's someone behind you. [Music fades out] You bitch! Goddamnit, Phi! Open this loving door! VLR OST: [Eeriness] gently caress! Listen in: [English/Japanese] Invalid pair detected. Please retry with valid partner. Members of a pair cannot vote in separate rooms. Why the gently caress not?! This is against the rules! How am I supposed to vote?! Guh... This is bullshit! Dio can't vote now, so the chance that Phi will chose "ally" just went way up. After all, if you pick "ally" and she betrays you, then... Dio will have 9 points. Exactly. But don't you think Phi might be worried that K will break his promise? After all, if he can be pretty sure that Phi is going to choose "ally", then... You needn't worry. Her plan is very clever. I will definitely choose "ally". We don't have much time left. Let's go. Okay. Hm? Of course. We both have 5 BP right now. Even if I did betray you, I'd only get 3 points. That's not enough to escape. So I'd have to wait until the next round anyway. Oh... I see... ... ...Huh? Oh, nothing. Never mind. Anyway, you promised! You have to choose "ally"! Right. I will. VLR OST: [Ambidexterity] Now, what am I going to do...? Well, I guess there isn't really any question. After all, I promised Luna I'd pick "ally". But... What if she was lying to me? Ten seconds remain until Ambidex Game polling closes. Nine... Eight... Seven... Six... Five... Four... Do we trust Luna? Better get voting.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:04
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quote:Well we know now that a year has done nothing to help Clover's mental instability  I'm almost positive we're about to get betrayed the hell out but it's probably better to ally anyway.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:26
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Given Luna's innocent puppy personality and neither of us reaching 9, I can't see a reason this vote isn't pretty much a replicant test. Will you kick the puppy?
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Jul 5, 2013 21:33
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Super Jay Mann posted:Well we know now that a year has done nothing to help Clover's mental instability Also another example of "very inappropriate idle expressions for Clover."
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Jul 5, 2013 21:33
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So what's the mindfuck hook for this one? 999 had the idea of passing on information through the collective unconscious, but either I haven't been playing close enough attention or it hasn't come up yet for this one. Also, I don't think we've seen any hatchets yet. So Clover can't kill everyone!
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Jul 5, 2013 21:46
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dscruffy1 posted:So what's the mindfuck hook for this one? 999 had the idea of passing on information through the collective unconscious, but either I haven't been playing close enough attention or it hasn't come up yet for this one. So far we've got psychotic AIs and the possibility of snatchers/replicants, but that's about it so far.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:55
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Phi's plan was pretty clever, but it would have been better if she made K promise to outside as well, as then he would default to Ally and there's no worries that he'll betray her.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:55
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Ometeotl posted:Phi's plan was pretty clever, but it would have been better if she made K promise to outside as well, as then he would default to Ally and there's no worries that he'll betray her. He'd die if he couldn't get in to vote.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:09
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Zyla posted:He'd die if he couldn't get in to vote. Only if both teams don't vote. If one of the two abstain they just default to Ally.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:16
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Male Man posted:Only if both teams don't vote. If one of the two abstain they just default to Ally. quote:Not voting is not an hoption. Ah, you're correct.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:21
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I can't wait to see how this AB Game shakes out. I guess you could say it is truly... Hare-raising
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Jul 5, 2013 23:15
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Instant Grat posted:I can't wait to see how this AB Game shakes out. I guess you could say it is truly...
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Jul 5, 2013 23:27
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Instant Grat posted:I can't wait to see how this AB Game shakes out. I guess you could say it is truly... That pun was very lepooridae. ...I'll see myself out.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:34
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:iamafag: I hope you guys choose Ally. There is really no reason to betray her other than to be a dick.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:44
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There should be a no-brainer for this choice - there's no point to either of them betraying, as said. Looks like we're well on our way to allying, and Luna'd look like a colossal tool if she betrayed. And that was pretty clever of Phi, actually, I'm impressed. More concerning is Tenmyouji and Clover. I think we're most likely looking at a double betray situation here - Clover's too suspicious not to do it, and Tenmyouji both wants to save himself and prevent Clover from winning.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:47
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I'd bet a ton of fake dollars that Luna's gonna betray here. Because it makes way too much sense for her to Ally.
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Jul 5, 2013 23:49
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Ometeotl posted:Phi's plan was pretty clever, but it would have been better if she made K promise to outside as well, as then he would default to Ally and there's no worries that he'll betray her. The timing would be pretty tight - once she's in the room, she has no way to stop him going into his own room. I doubt Dio would let K in, but then, like Dio says, he's unlikely to be a physical match for someone of K's stature.
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Jul 6, 2013 00:13
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She's totally going to betray now, thanks Sigma for saying that "I'll have to wait until next time to betray you" line that made you look like a total dick. I still voted ally though. I say let Sigma be honest and make her look really bad! Speaking of screwing everyone over, Fedule, are you going to pull a Dragonatrix and show off all the endings?
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Jul 6, 2013 00:34
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Skunkrocker posted:She's totally going to betray now, thanks Sigma for saying that "I'll have to wait until next time to betray you" line that made you look like a total dick. I still voted ally though. I say let Sigma be honest and make her look really bad! I understood that line to mean that, with 5 BP, betraying won't help him get out any quicker - 2 rounds of ally/ally and he'll be out, and it's the same for Luna. Betrayal will only serve to cause people to distrust him - ally/ally or betray/ally, he's still one round away from the magic 9. Maybe orenronen can shed some light on how it was worded in the original Japanese version... Instant Grat fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 00:45
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Instant Grat posted:I understood that line to mean that, with 5 BP, betraying won't help him get out any quicker - 2 rounds of ally/ally and he'll be out, and it's the same for Luna. Betrayal will only serve to cause people to distrust him - ally/ally or betray/ally, he's still one round away from the magic 9. I'm pretty sure this is what he meant - he has to wait until next round to escape even if he gets the extra 1 BP from betraying, so there's no logical point to doing it. It sort of avoids him stating his actual opinion on the matter, but then, we as the players are controlling his actions - the game could make him totally gung-ho "Ally" and we tap "Betray", and that's that.
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Jul 6, 2013 00:55
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Nidoking posted:The timing would be pretty tight - once she's in the room, she has no way to stop him going into his own room. I doubt Dio would let K in, but then, like Dio says, he's unlikely to be a physical match for someone of K's stature. If K is going to Ally, he has no reason to push past Sigma and Dio, as he's going to default to that anyway, and it only makes him look untrustworthy, even if he's still going to Ally. If he's going to betray, then...not having him stay outside doesn't change anything. He went in the room, so he can still betray. At the very least, making him promise to stay outside at least gives the possibility that Dio and Sigma could keep him contained for just long enough for him to default to Ally and be unable to betray.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:02
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Yeah, I have decided that Dio is the killer. He is just such an rear end in a top hat and his words reek of lies.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:39
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Ometeotl posted:If K is going to Ally, he has no reason to push past Sigma and Dio, as he's going to default to that anyway, and it only makes him look untrustworthy, even if he's still going to Ally. If he's going to betray, then...not having him stay outside doesn't change anything. He went in the room, so he can still betray. At the very least, making him promise to stay outside at least gives the possibility that Dio and Sigma could keep him contained for just long enough for him to default to Ally and be unable to betray. Even if Sigma and Dio together can match K's strength, and that's no guarantee (who knows what superhuman technology that suit might contain?), that requires Sigma to wait outside the room, which he hasn't agreed to do - and also tips Dio off that Phi doesn't plan to let him into the AB Room with her, which you might have noticed he wasn't too thrilled about. She had to act quickly to catch him by surprise - asking him to wait outside the room would probably have sent HIM running straight for the door to lock her out. It may make sense if you ignore every other person aside from Phi and K, but that's a lot of factors to ignore.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:41
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Medieval Medic posted:Yeah, I have decided that Dio is the killer. He is just such an rear end in a top hat and his words reek of lies. It's way too obvious, though.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:48
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Sigma can't wait outside the room because he's the player character.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:48
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Plus there's basically no benefit from being the first person to 9 points. K could still get out fairly easily if they tried to stop him, but I doubt he'd want to be in that position.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:49
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Justin_Brett posted:Plus there's basically no benefit from being the first person to 9 points. K could still get out fairly easily if they tried to stop him, but I doubt he'd want to be in that position. I'd say there's a huge incentive to be the first person to 9. Even if YOU want to wait for extra rounds for more people to win there's still no guarantee that other people feel the same way, and the only way to be completely safe is if you hit 9 first. And you can't really blame people for wanting to exit the game as quickly as possible considering: 1) You can lose points, so you might lose your option of leaving. 2) The Nonary game is explicitly deadly. Making a mistake on the rules could get you killed. 3) Somebody just got murdered like.. 5 minutes ago 4) The mastermind is probably participating plus maybe a replicant. Yeah the optimal Nonary Game (Ambidex Ed) solution is to wait for everyone to hit 9 BP, but the optimal solution to the Ambidex game was relentless Ally-Ally pairs and that sure as hell didn't happen. Also I don't really think restraining people comes into it much, grappling ANYBODY for 40 minutes at a time sounds pretty difficult.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:30
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