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Corn Thongs posted:Yeah, that's a lot of inference going on. Squall's rear end in a top hat behavior was attributed almost entirely to being abandoned by Ellone. Well my point was exactly what Defiance Industries said - the material for a better story was all there but they chose to just treat a military academy like high school. Although I guess the GF memory nonsense does into play. Squalls issues do begin with Ellone but he never resolved them because he was raised to be a mercenary and then he forgot about this traumatic event. The result is that he's all hosed up and shut off from people but he doesn't know why. He can't very well move onand get better until he comes to terms with the thing that so horribly effected him and he wasn't even aware of that event until the end of Disk 2. But yeah, nobody ever does call Cid out on any of this. It's kinda bullshit.
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Jul 4, 2013 19:45
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Oh no, I bought FF7 on steam having never really played it before (I got out of midgar) and now I've fallen into a FF7 modding hole: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12008.0 I suspect what will actually happen is I'll spend roughly four hours setting this up, it won't work, I'll say gently caress it and play without mods, I'll get out of Midgar again and then I'll get bored and stop playing. E: Oops, seems like I already found the best mods, no point in looking any further:  
Amppelix fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 19:47
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But does Cloud get to wear a Sailor Suit too?
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Jul 4, 2013 19:58
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Well, there is the option that gets him, Tifa and Aeris into playboy bunny suits for the crossdressing scene... Also, actually best thing about the mod tools so far: "Revive Aeris" is not only a checkbox, it's checked on by default.
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Jul 4, 2013 20:12
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Aeris' legs look like they belong on a giant baby. Look at how they pinch in at the knee.
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Jul 4, 2013 20:13
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Terper posted:New LR trailer. Woop woop. Very loving excited for this game.
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Jul 4, 2013 20:16
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Schwartzcough posted:She still travels the world on her own, is an accomplished warrior in her own right, has a strong sense of duty to protect her homeland, and can keep up with "the boys" just fine. I think my problem with this take on her is that, while true, it's inconsequential to her characterization. She's strong in terms of gameplay and the fact that she's not a caster, but this never really comes up in the dialogue. I guess she has a face-off with Amarant at one point? And then she goes back to crumpling to her knees whining about Fratley. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 20:44
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The White Dragon posted:I think my problem with this take on her is that, while true, it's inconsequential to her characterization. She's strong in terms of gameplay and the fact that she's not a caster, but this never really comes up in the dialogue. I guess she has a face-off with Amarant at one point? And then she goes back to crumpling to her knees whining about Fratley. Yeah, she's a strong warrior in the same way that, say, Other M Samus Aran is. She can technically kick the poo poo out of everything and everyone in her path but her plot is entirely about the guy she obsessed over and never gets over. She isn't quite asking Fratley for authorization to jump on enemies but she's in a similar vein.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:07
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Terper posted:New LR trailer. Woop woop.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:46
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I don't think it makes a female character weaker to be primarily motivated by love. Men or women, doing all you can for the one you love is the best goal I can think of. It's certainly the one I tend to empathize most easily with. It's just that FF love stories tend to be kinda weak. The fact Freya is mostly irrelevant to the main story only makes it worse.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:47
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It's not really that Freya's motivated by Fratley, it's that the whole subplot is just written kinda oddly. Fratley is a complete nonentity - compare to, say, Beatrix and Steiner. You know Beatrix. You know Steiner. You get how they interact, you get a sense of development, you can understand how these two people would love each other. Same thing with Garnet and Zidane, the obvious main 'focus' romance of the game. With Freya and Fratley, you get no sense of that. Part of is that Fratley already has the amnesia at the start of the game, but you never even get a scene of them interacting or a flashback to before he had amnesia, or whatever. Even a little bit would go a long way, but as it stands she might as well be pining for a brick wall. It comes across as weird and kind of pathetic, as opposed to touching and sad.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:52
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It should also be noted that she's not completely obsessed with him. When she runs into him again, she doesn't drop everything to chase after him like she would if she was the protagonist. She says "I'm just glad he's alive. But I've got things to take care of, like saving the world and poo poo."
Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 21:55
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Endorph posted:With Freya and Fratley, you get no sense of that. Part of is that Fratley already has the amnesia at the start of the game, but you never even get a scene of them interacting or a flashback to before he had amnesia, or whatever. Even a little bit would go a long way, but as it stands she might as well be pining for a brick wall. It comes across as weird and kind of pathetic, as opposed to touching and sad. I agree with pretty much what you and others are saying but there is one brief scene where the two of them speak in a flashback in Burmecia. Basically just as Fratley's heading out on his trip. Not that it really adds much but there was at least something.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:56
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't think it makes a female character weaker to be primarily motivated by love. Men or women, doing all you can for the one you love is the best goal I can think of. It's certainly the one I tend to empathize most easily with. The problem is that all love stories aren't created equal. In games a female-oriented love story tends to be about a character who is helpless/needy/desperate/lost/otherwise in a position of weakness while a male-oriented love story tends to put them in a position of strength, where empowered by it (sometimes literally). Had Freya's story been meaningful, the Fratley thing would have lead to character growth and her moving on with her life or, alternately, her overcoming the obstacles in her way to rescue him from the peril that he is in. Fratley, despite having massive amnesia, only shows up to rescue Freya and Freya proceeds to gush over him right until the point Cleyra is blown up and Fratley literally doesn't appear again until the ending. His only role in the story is to save Freya and have her gush over him. Schwartzcough posted:It should also be noted that she's not completely obsessed with him. When she runs into him again, she doesn't drop everything to chase after her like she would if she was the protagonist. She says "I'm just glad he's alive. But I've got things to take care of, like saving the world and poo poo." No she doesn't. She says, briefly, that she's glad to know he's alive and then the city gets blown up and she thinks everyone is dead. That said, Freya literally does not mention his name again after that sequence until the end of the game. The fact that she has fewer lines than Quina from that point on may be related to that though. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 21:58
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Terper posted:New LR trailer. Woop woop. "This wind... is the dead?" Good to know the translation will still suck rear end.
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Jul 4, 2013 22:08
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ImpAtom posted:That said, Freya literally does not mention his name again after that sequence until the end of the game. The fact that she has fewer lines than Quina from that point on may be related to that though.  Nah, it bugs me because he comes up so often whenever a scene features her regardless of how relevant he is to the situation, even after she knows he has amnesia. NikkolasKing posted:I don't think it makes a female character weaker to be primarily motivated by love. Men or women, doing all you can for the one you love is the best goal I can think of. It's certainly the one I tend to empathize most easily with. "fratleyyyyy  "
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Jul 4, 2013 22:10
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The White Dragon posted:
Oh, excuse me. I forgot she does it in one of the optional scenes. The rest of her lines are all stuff like "and?" or "What do you mean?" or "What is that?!" though so really not better.
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Jul 4, 2013 22:12
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ImpAtom posted:The problem is that all love stories aren't created equal. In games a female-oriented love story tends to be about a character who is helpless/needy/desperate/lost/otherwise in a position of weakness while a male-oriented love story tends to put them in a position of strength, where empowered by it (sometimes literally). I don't think someone putting aside their own aspirations to help/tend to a person they love (essentially the gist of how her story ends) is actually a type of weakness as long as they have the agency to make that choice, but I agree that Freya is a badly handled character and we don't really see enough of her or know enough about Fratley or anything to see her story as empowering, ennobling, or pleasant in any way. I actually think that characters disappearing into the background before and after their set piece and non-core characters having very little development is a common problem with the series, probably sometimes of necessity (the World of Ruin is a good example), prior to FFX. And there actually is a correlation between that and a sense of linearity, because X and XIII are the two FF games that actually do have an entire playable cast of three-dimensional characters with comprehensible (if sometimes secret) motivations and dynamic personalities and poo poo. EDIT: And maybe I'm weird but I think that problem is somehow more egregious in FFIX than many other games, because VIII for example is emphatically Squall and Rinoa's love story and VI is essentially an homage to broad theatrical/operatic archetypes that isn't about three-dimensional, realistic people. IX feels like it should've had better ensemble development for people like Amarant and Freya. Baku fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 22:14
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IX is the Elizabethan Drama to VI's Opera, so the fact that some characters are flat, even to the point of Amarant, is excusable. The fact that Freya is such a hot mess isn't.
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Jul 4, 2013 22:32
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Paracelsus posted:What're the odds that the "God" she's talking about ends up being the final boss? I'm guessing something in the area of 100:1. Who's the God here? Do they worship Bhunivelze? Is Lindzei pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and you're doing his dirty work all game before you kill him?
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Jul 5, 2013 00:16
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DACK FAYDEN posted:That actually stuck out like a sore thumb to me. They haven't said "God" before, right? And Lightning met Etro personally and knows she's a Goddess? They haven't said god but they refer to Etro as a goddess all the time so it's not a huge leap I guess? The god is Bhunivelze, who created Pulse (who created Cocoon (edit: or something, I don't know); Lightning was a Pulse l'Cie in 13) and Etro (who created humans; Lightning was working for her in 13-2). Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 00:25
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I'm probably going to pick up the Steam FFVII if it goes on sale at any point just because I haven't played it in like 10 years and I don't mind downloading a better soundtrack. I agree that VII got hyped to hell and back, but it is definitely in my top 3 along with 6 and 9. I think VII has my favorite setting with the dystopian techno-punk feel (6 had this too but the pre-rendered backgrounds in VII just make it feel more alive) and I actually like the story even though it's pretty complicated. I'm a fan of stories that don't get explained point-by-point, though, and I think the fact that there are multiple valid explanations of some story elements that exist without contradicting each other are kind of neat. 9 is pretty close to the perfect FF for me, though. The animation style is just great, I know some people hate the exaggerated character models but I think it made perfect use of what the PS1 could do. Good story / plot for what it is intending to do, good villain, etc. The only things I'm not a fan of in 9 are how slow the battle system is (makes every fight a chore) and that all the mini-games blow rear end. Seriously, jump-roping and the Hippaul racing are just obnoxious, to the point that I've never met anyone that legitimately hit the top score on the jump-rope, and the card game is some horrific jumble of confusing, unexplained mechanics and hidden decimals that is just painful to play. FF8's card game was actually a lot of fun, even aside from being able to break the entire game with it. A simple game with (mostly) simple rules variations that made sense. FF9s card game is just poo poo.
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Jul 5, 2013 00:30
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Honey Badger posted:I'm probably going to pick up the Steam FFVII if it goes on sale at any point just because I haven't played it in like 10 years and I don't mind downloading a better soundtrack. I agree that VII got hyped to hell and back, but it is definitely in my top 3 along with 6 and 9. I think VII has my favorite setting with the dystopian techno-punk feel (6 had this too but the pre-rendered backgrounds in VII just make it feel more alive) and I actually like the story even though it's pretty complicated. I'm a fan of stories that don't get explained point-by-point, though, and I think the fact that there are multiple valid explanations of some story elements that exist without contradicting each other are kind of neat. The art direction in VI is actually kind of a turnoff for me now. Upon revisiting it you're aware of how all over the place it is, like in the same universe where you have medieval dudes in castles you also have robot walkers and steam trains. That was all cool and permissible when I was 10, but it just comes off as really uneven in retrospect, especially in subsequent titles like 7/9/10 that did a much better job at designing a consistent look for the world.
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Jul 5, 2013 00:35
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DACK FAYDEN posted:That actually stuck out like a sore thumb to me. They haven't said "God" before, right? And Lightning met Etro personally and knows she's a Goddess? According to an interview Bhunivelze is 'awake' now so it's probably him. They do worship him and want him to create a new world.
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Jul 5, 2013 00:37
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DACK FAYDEN posted:That actually stuck out like a sore thumb to me. They haven't said "God" before, right? And Lightning met Etro personally and knows she's a Goddess? Bhunivelze, the Creator of everything in the FNC universe, was awakened following the events of FFXIII-2, when the Unseen World's door was opened and chaos started to eat away at reality; that's the God she's referring to. It's been stated that she'll have to contend with those who worship Etro and those who worship Bhunivelze in LR, because they're on opposing sides for unknown reasons at the moment.
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Jul 5, 2013 01:02
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Man what why is Hope younger again in this new 13-3 trailer. And I read on the wiki that theyre using the gods for ff15? i hope that's placeholder plot -_-
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Jul 5, 2013 01:11
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Relin posted:Man what why is Hope younger again in this new 13-3 trailer. And I read on the wiki that theyre using the gods for ff15? i hope that's placeholder plot -_- I'm not sure if anyone knows. Originally it was part of the FNC but now it's its own thing. How much of FNC is left over in it.
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Jul 5, 2013 01:21
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Relin posted:Man what why is Hope younger again in this new 13-3 trailer. And I read on the wiki that theyre using the gods for ff15? i hope that's placeholder plot -_- It's not. FFXV still has remnants of being Versus XIII; using the FNC mythology is one of those. It's not as bad as you realize if given a competent writer this time.
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Jul 5, 2013 01:28
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Azure_Horizon posted:It's not. FFXV still has remnants of being Versus XIII; using the FNC mythology is one of those. It's not as bad as you realize if given a competent writer this time. I'm just loving waiting for them to reveal that Lightning's the goddess in FFXV, just to try to keep shoving her into every game now.
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Jul 5, 2013 02:12
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Yesssss they're bringing the best character back, I hope Fang is a major presence in the game. I guess I should go finish 13-2 at some point, maybe I should restart and try real hard to avoid overlevelling this time so the combat doesn't become boring as poo poo
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Jul 5, 2013 02:15
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Calaveron posted:I'm just loving waiting for them to reveal that Lightning's the goddess in FFXV, just to try to keep shoving her into every game now. I don't know about that, but Etro definitely has a presence in FFXV.
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Jul 5, 2013 02:51
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Suaimhneas posted:Yesssss they're bringing the best character back, I hope Fang is a major presence in the game. Man, when I played, I just kept leveling, thinking I wouldn't win otherwise. Well, the final boss was down in like 2 minutes and Yomi wasn't even a problem at all.
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Jul 5, 2013 02:57
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Suaimhneas posted:Yesssss they're bringing the best character back, I hope Fang is a major presence in the game. Well, she is going to be a big thing in the Dead Dunes, at least. I want to know what Vanille and Sazh are up to, though. Azure_Horizon posted:I don't know about that, but Etro definitely has a presence in FFXV. Yeah they said they are keeping all the story from when the game was still Versus XIII.
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Jul 5, 2013 03:17
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ImpAtom posted:No she doesn't. She says, briefly, that she's glad to know he's alive and then the city gets blown up and she thinks everyone is dead. FFIX Script posted:Fratley: "I must go." I don't know about whether she thinks he died later (probably not, because everyone knows named characters don't die off-screen), but she pretty clearly goes "I'm not going after him; I'm just glad he's alive. Let's go kick bad-guy rear end!"
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Jul 5, 2013 05:30
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Vanille comes back and she's finally on her meds again and we have a perfectly functional character. Also, Square-Enix make her and Fang's romance straight-up canon and precisely nobody bats an eye, but game new sites manage to be embarrassing about it anyway. But I don't really care what they actually do, because gently caress yes, Fang is the best.
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Jul 5, 2013 05:59
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't know about whether she thinks he died later (probably not, because everyone knows named characters don't die off-screen), but she pretty clearly goes "I'm not going after him; I'm just glad he's alive. Let's go kick bad-guy rear end!" The lines you're posting there actually suggests the exact opposite. Freya goes "No, I'm happy he's alive" because she's lying and then she starts sobbing over how he can't remember her once the others are gone. She does say to go fight, but it's in more of a "I need to get out of here" way as opposed to a "Welp, I got stuff to do" way. (Which is not to rag on her for that particular part. "Hey, the guy I loved is alive but doesn't remember me" is a pretty good reason to be upset. She just never goes anywhere with it.)
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Jul 5, 2013 06:34
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Compare: Freya finding Fratley alive but amnesiac and getting just one or two lines expressing her regrets, and Tifa finding Cloud alive but catatonic and having a near-breakdown and excusing herself from the playable cast to deal with it.
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Jul 5, 2013 06:43
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Mazed posted:Compare: Freya finding Fratley alive but amnesiac and getting just one or two lines expressing her regrets, and Tifa finding Cloud alive but catatonic and having a near-breakdown and excusing herself from the playable cast to deal with it. Man, if you're getting compared to Tifa, you know things are bad. I know that wasn't your intent but Tifa's basically a boatload of problems herself.
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Jul 5, 2013 06:47
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Well, except Tifa is actually a reasonably well-written character. A well-written headcase, sure, but that's kind of a given if you're a PC in FF7. Her reaction in that scene is actually something a human being might do. There's nothing overly exaggerated about her personality otherwise, and so much else about FF7 that gets hyped up like crazy, that it might be easy to forget that that even happens.
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Jul 5, 2013 06:57
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At least Freya and Tifa aren't Seven from Xenoblade. She can't make use of her high level buffs unless her boyfriend is in the party. It would have been kind of cute if he needed her for his abilities, but he doesn't.
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Jul 5, 2013 07:08
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