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ShadeofDante posted:Doesn't XIII-2 confirm that Chocolina is the Chocobo Chick grown up and through ~space-time magic~ or something? I really don't think I'm joking either. Yes, the Sazh DLC confirms that Chocolina is the Chocofro.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:16
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Cid fought you because you were l'Cie whose goal was to destroy Cocoon and he didn't want that. He was probably the antagonist that made the most sense and also had a fun boss fight... then he went on to host the Indy 500 and he's never been seen again. It's kind of weird how the two Final Fantasy villains most people seem to like (Kefka and Sephiroth) are the ones who are established presences in the world and active agents in some form doing poo poo for most of the game including one irredeemable act (World of Ruin, Aeris) and then serve as the final bosses, but they're also the exception for the series. Like there's not really any good reason for Seymour or Cid Raines not to be the final bosses of X or XIII, they just... aren't. Because confronting whatever symbolic universal force (it is always god or the devil) is more important, I guess. Wonder if it has anything to do with IV being the Important One in Japan and basically the posterchild for that phenomenon with Golbez VS Zeromus (the devil).
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Jul 23, 2013 16:26
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It seems to be A JRPG thing in general. They don't want the game to end with just a human boss fight (Or one relating to humans) as they feel that would probably be anticlimactic, so they pull some super monster out of their rear end and call it a day. At least with games like FFX, you're still fighting Sin, it just becomes less clear that you're fighting Sin by end-game because the myriad of names things inside of Sin has.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:33
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Great Lakes Log posted:Quick question about a totally different FF game, because I have played either of the XIII's yet. There are a few versions of FFV in existence, and I'm wary of just getting the PSN one because FFVI had such awful load times. Does the GBA game make significant changes? Is the iOS one serviceable? I would honestly say that the GBA port is the best version, but I might be a little biased because it's the first one I played and I still really love it. Anyway, I was just saying Serah is pretty cute, but I understand my comment was inappropriate, and I am sorry. Just got Paladin in FFD, and because of my aforementioned Job grinding I can actually immediately switch to that Job and maybe have fun now. You know, after I get through the last section of Chapter 3 and get Ninja, AKA probably the most DAMAGE Job. You don't know how much I'm looking forward to dropping Alba and never, ever, again having to deal with her.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:43
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It seems to be A JRPG thing in general. They don't want the game to end with just a human boss fight (Or one relating to humans) as they feel that would probably be anticlimactic, so they pull some super monster out of their rear end and call it a day. At least with games like FFX, you're still fighting Sin, it just becomes less clear that you're fighting Sin by end-game because the myriad of names things inside of Sin has. FFIV and FFVIII come to mind. With IV you beat the humanoid Zemus but OH HO the hatred inside of Zemus was so great and influential that it has borne unto itself a physical embodiment named Zeromus! VIII was literally just a "Oh hi, yeah this is the epic end battle and you've never heard of me. I'm the ultimate evil and am the creator of this evil plot. Defeat me for the credit roll!"
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Jul 23, 2013 16:50
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:FFIV and FFVIII come to mind. With IV you beat the humanoid Zemus but OH HO the hatred inside of Zemus was so great and influential that it has borne unto itself a physical embodiment named Zeromus Technically the PCs never fight Zemus. FuSoYa and Tin Can beat him for you.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:54
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FFIX is one of the best FF games but has one of the worst instances of final boss replacement. You fight Kuja in a very final boss-like battle and then Necron comes out of basically nowhere and you have to fight it right after.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:06
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Fang was actually confirmed in a recent Lightning Returns trailer and there's so much time fuckery going on in the game anything will happen. It doesn't really take a lot of justification to go "HEY HERE'S SAZH. He got spat out by a wormhole." Obviously Sazh and Snow are off having a buddy cop time travel adventure while Lightning is dicking around playing Majora's Mask.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:11
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Yes, the Sazh DLC confirms that Chocolina is the Chocofro. I've heard of this but I never, ever, want to know how and why and who the hell thought this a good idea?!
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Jul 23, 2013 17:12
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Renoistic posted:I've heard of this but I never, ever, want to know how and why and who the hell thought this a good idea?! People who thought FF13-2 and 3 were a good idea.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:15
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It seems to be A JRPG thing in general. They don't want the game to end with just a human boss fight (Or one relating to humans) as they feel that would probably be anticlimactic, so they pull some super monster out of their rear end and call it a day. At least with games like FFX, you're still fighting Sin, it just becomes less clear that you're fighting Sin by end-game because the myriad of names things inside of Sin has.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:24
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It seems to be A JRPG thing in general. They don't want the game to end with just a human boss fight (Or one relating to humans) as they feel that would probably be anticlimactic, so they pull some super monster out of their rear end and call it a day. At least with games like FFX, you're still fighting Sin, it just becomes less clear that you're fighting Sin by end-game because the myriad of names things inside of Sin has. Or they have the character turn into some big, impressive form for no reason, I'm generally dismissive of the JRPG bashing stereotypes you see on boards like these. Like, in the Xenogears LP thread, people were saying stuff such as "oh, gotta kill god Haven't done that in every JRPG ever....." Only, that's bullshit. Generalizations like that annoy the gently caress out of me. And yet, I did notice after playing the Star Ocean games that angelic final bosses are indeed a must-have cliche of JRPGs by this point. I don't know why but after Faize randomly become Satan at the end of SO4 I figured it must absolutely be a JRPG trope because the game was nothing but JRPG cliches and tropes. Did Kefka start it?
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Jul 23, 2013 17:24
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NikkolasKing posted:Or they have the character turn into some big, impressive form for no reason, SMT (maybe MT) started it. YHVH or the highway.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:27
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NikkolasKing posted:Or they have the character turn into some big, impressive form for no reason, I don't remember the Final Boss of Dragon Quest because christ knows when I was 5 I didn't have the patience to make it more than like, 10 feet in that game but the Final Boss of FFI is a random countries relatively famous knight turned into a god who commands four elemental fiends so it at least goes that far back for JRPGs.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:27
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Pablo Gigante posted:FFIX is one of the best FF games but has one of the worst instances of final boss replacement. You fight Kuja in a very final boss-like battle and then Necron comes out of basically nowhere and you have to fight it right after. FFIX is my favourite FF game by miles (so much better than XIII that I can't believe the latter got not one but 2 sequels) but yeah Necron or whatever is so dumb. Apparently Hades was meant to be the final boss rather than just a side-boss, but it was scrapped at the last minute. I could see you guys beating Kuja and then he goes to cast Ultima, and you need to fight Hades in order to save everyone from death or something I guess? I dunno what their plan was but it'd make more sense than Necron. I really want to re-play FFIX but I can't find my 1st disc for it.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:52
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Renoistic posted:The only thing I can think of is that Lightning apologizes to her sister for acting like an rear end in a top hat. I have no idea why that would open the door, though. I'm pretty sure she doesn't tell Sazh to cover his ears because she knows something, but because she doesn't want him to hear her apologize to anyone The door opens by coincidence. In the Pulse Vestige you also control Snow, who just activated a pedestal and flipped the power switch, which unlocks the door. At roughly the same time, Lightning apologises, seemingly opening the lock herself.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:55
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:SMT (maybe MT) started it. YHVH or the highway. Yeah the first thing I thought of when the God is the Final Boss thing is the ending of Persona 4, which is the only part of the entire game that I didn't like. Seemed to be a completely unnecessary inclusion and kinda soured the game right at the end. But it's also still P4. I can't stay mad at P4.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:57
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Great Lakes Log posted:Yeah the first thing I thought of when the God is the Final Boss thing is the ending of Persona 4, which is the only part of the entire game that I didn't like. Seemed to be a completely unnecessary inclusion and kinda soured the game right at the end. But it's also still P4. I can't stay mad at P4. It actually makes total sense that theirs some big ethereal being at the core of this nexus of human consciousness given the plots and settings of the previous games so it didn't ruffle my fluff too much.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:01
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Barudak posted:I don't remember the Final Boss of Dragon Quest because christ knows when I was 5 I didn't have the patience to make it more than like, 10 feet in that game but the Final Boss of FFI is a random countries relatively famous knight turned into a god who commands four elemental fiends so it at least goes that far back for JRPGs. Well, while Garland turns into Chaos at the end of FFI, I don't think I'd call him an angelic-looking final boss, he's really more of a demon guy. I don't think other final bosses in Final Fantasies prior to Kefka had angel wings, to my recollection. Though they tended to be large monstrous godlike beings and whatever, anyway, I guess. EDIT - vvvvvvvvvvv That's the one I was thinking of when I said that. HJE-Cobra fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 18:09
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I personally miss when final bosses were just giant masses of weird poo poo stuck together.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:12
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:The door opens by coincidence. In the Pulse Vestige you also control Snow, who just activated a pedestal and flipped the power switch, which unlocks the door. At roughly the same time, Lightning apologises, seemingly opening the lock herself. Seriously? I'm surprised it wasn't Etro meddling again.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:16
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Barudak posted:I don't remember the Final Boss of Dragon Quest because christ knows when I was 5 I didn't have the patience to make it more than like, 10 feet in that game but the Final Boss of FFI is a random countries relatively famous knight turned into a god who commands four elemental fiends so it at least goes that far back for JRPGs.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:23
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I like the Necron fight, but the way it's framed plotwise is dumb. Even something like KUJA AND NECRON FUSING TOGETHER would have been better, because you'd at least be fighting Kuja still.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:40
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It actually makes total sense that theirs some big ethereal being at the core of this nexus of human consciousness given the plots and settings of the previous games so it didn't ruffle my fluff too much. The problem with P4 doing this is not only is there already is a giant amorphous god monster in what seems like an actual climax for the game as the final boss, but then they do it a second time with a character who has relatively little presence over the course of that game. It's very easy to forget there was some build up to the true ending of P4, but that boss doesn't have a lot of character to it and literally only really exists to tie up loose ends, which makes it more of a typical JRPG end-game boss than the first final boss is. I think all that needs to be said about P4 is that if you have two final bosses, one of those fuckers needs to be cut because otherwise it's just gonna get stupid no matter how you handle it.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:44
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Overbite posted:Are you Toriyama? I swear I've seen a screen where the dude says he brought roses to the stage so that he can better describe Also I'll never stop being mad about Lightning and the entire Fabulous Star Cocaine universe continuing to use her stage name.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:51
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It actually makes total sense that theirs some big ethereal being at the core of this nexus of human consciousness given the plots and settings of the previous games so it didn't ruffle my fluff too much. Persona 4's final boss also has those thematic mythological tie-ins that make perfect sense; the whole game is about "reaching out for the truth" and the story of Izanagi and Izanami is about Izanagi's "reaching out for the truth" in his refusal to passively accept the deceit that she could return from the underworld and was still herself and still beautiful. People compare Persona 3 and Persona 4 for both choosing a "man goes to the underworld for his lover" myth, but I actually think they're in some way opposite stories; the man who returns to the surface is undone by his grief in Orpheus and Eurydice, while the woman who stays in the underworld is the one who's undone by anger and shame in Izanagi and Izanami. Izanagi's mistrust is wise, by contrast to Orpheus's which dooms Eurydice. At least as I understand it, I'm not some kind of expert on Japanese mythology. By contrast, "Zemus and Zeromus" are some weird characters FF4 made up in the last act. Baku fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 18:52
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Level Slide posted:I swear I've seen a screen where the dude says he brought roses to the stage so that he can better describe Toriyama is to Lightning what Sakamoto is to Samus. 
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Jul 23, 2013 18:55
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I guess they go to the same supplier of fabulous star cocaine.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:59
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HJE-Cobra posted:I don't think other final bosses in Final Fantasies prior to Kefka had angel wings, to my recollection. You're right, none of them had. The closest it gets is with Chaos and his bat wings. But he also has a dragon head-cock so...  Retroactively, they gave the Emperor a light-side which does have angel wings, but his demon form was pretty wingless.   The Cloud of Darkness was pretty much a tentacle monster thing.  And Zeromus was a hosed-up bug/lobster thing.  So yeah, Kefka kinda started the angel wing craze for final bosses in Final Fantasy.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:59
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Veks posted:Toriyama is to Lightning what Sakamoto is to Samus. This is really not an apt comparison as Lightning has yet to be devalued as a person, meanwhile Samus has.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:00
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Also I think Sakamoto was repositioned so that such a thing wouldn't happen again. Toriyama's still calling the shots.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:02
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glod posted:I personally miss when final bosses were just giant masses of weird poo poo stuck together.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:04
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I think the idea behind Neo Exdeath is that he's an amalgamation of like hundreds or thousands of demons, so those naked ladies are probably succubi or have dog lower bodies or something. WATCH OUT. Also I wouldn't hold Kefka's angelic design against him, I think it fits perfectly into the game's Renaissance aesthetics and his delusions of grandeur. That whole tower lead-in to his final form is like a baroque monument to his personal glory. I am officially passing the ball to the Final Fantasy VII fanclub to defend Sephiroth's design.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:06
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NikkolasKing posted:
I always thought Kefka hilarious. his world/map sprite was what? 15 pixels tall and a clown, while his battle from was a multi storied screen scrolling angel of death.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:07
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Sex_Ferguson posted:This is really not an apt comparison as Lightning has yet to be devalued as a person, meanwhile Samus has. On the other hand, we saw what Toriyama did to Aya Brea.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:08
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I think the idea behind Neo Exdeath is that he's an amalgamation of like hundreds or thousands of demons, so those naked ladies are probably succubi or have dog lower bodies or something. WATCH OUT. It's intended to invoke the image of the Seraphim which also relates to the Sephirot AKA his namesake. It's a dumb design, but it's not like they just thought to toss 10 wings on him and call it a day. ImpAtom posted:On the other hand, we saw what Toriyama did to Aya Brea. Fair enough.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:10
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And yet the song is One-Winged Angel and in all the Compilation the single black wing is all that's remembered. I wonder if the writers of AC and the other games actually played FFVII or if they read some fanfiction and based everything on that.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:12
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Sex_Ferguson posted:It's a dumb design, but it's not like they just thought to toss 10 wings on him and call it a day. You've reminded me how much I hate FFXII's final boss design.  "Hey, the King dude's just combined with some floating robe thing made of mist, what shall we do?" "Got any wings anywhere? Turn him into a robo-dragon-angel thing." [e]: Yeah, the penultimate form is pretty okay. I don't even mind this form's fusion with metal things, like a mistpunk cyborg or whatever. It's just the random-rear end wings that get me. VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 19:16
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NikkolasKing posted:I wonder if the writers of AC and the other games actually played FFVII or if they read some fanfiction and based everything on that. Sephiroth and Cloud in Kingdom Hearts would feel like parody to me if KH hadn't been, you know, directed by Nomura. EDIT: The second-to-last form of Vayne in XII loving rules, too. He turns into Conan Hercules, the Dynast King of Bodyslams. It's actually completely perfect for the concept that the Dynast King was meant to represent. And it's a nice break from the JRPG trope of the feminine villain. Baku fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 19:16
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Don't think too much about Cloud and Sephiroth's representations in the KH and Dissidia games, Nomura didn't either. He just wanted some dudes who were too cool for school and picked two the two guys from the most popular FF at the time to have done so.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:20
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