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Yeah it's my experience that internal bleeding will reliably kill the hell out of you unless you immediately find shelter, hide yourself, bundle up with a sleeping bag, keep yourself well fed and hydrated, and pray. Occasionally you'll miraculously walk it off in like two hours, but most of the time it's a giant immediate risk that should take priority over absolutely everything short of an angry dogman or impending death by thirst.
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Jul 18, 2013 10:02
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Thanks for the heads up. Looking back at it, it's possible that I got carried away and didn't catch a status message or payed enough attention. The lure of that crowbar, and my feeling of badassery may have clouded my mind. Anyway, I'll pay more attention in the future! 
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Jul 18, 2013 14:21
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I mostly just dislike how it feels very random when you find one bandit attracted at first and then suddenly A NEW CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED and there are two bandits. Even if you're specced for melee it goes from beatable with strategy to impossible at the speed of what the gently caress. e: I have found an interesting bug! It seems that when you cure meat with ashes that have a durability, the durability of the cured meat is based off of the ash durability rather than the original meat durability. So, you have to let your campfires go out naturally or else that meat you stripped off of the dead looter will not get cured the way you'd expect. Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 05:01
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There's actually a bug which might be at the root of this issue. Scavenging seems to cause the battle UI to misreport the number of enemies on the first round. It always shows one, even if more are there. Subsequent turns show the left and right selector arrows, though. I'm going to look into this now, as I'm sure it messes a lot of folks up. And yes, that ash condition % is causing issues. I have a fix upcoming that should make ash always be 100%, bypassing this problem. It should also apply to things like water, so when the quick recipe buttons are prioritizing ingredients, there isn't a 2% pure water being used before a 100% dirty water. Thanks for the heads-up! Edit: Oh, and to whoever gave me the Blue Bottle Games avatar, thanks!
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Jul 19, 2013 17:45
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I just had a thought, how possible would it be to have the wound treatment screen be like the crafting screen where it just lays out all the healing items outside of their containers? Not that it's a big deal but it'd be kind of nice to not have to wrangle stuff out of containers when you need to dig out the bandages or painkillers.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:22
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Thompsons posted:I just had a thought, how possible would it be to have the wound treatment screen be like the crafting screen where it just lays out all the healing items outside of their containers? Not that it's a big deal but it'd be kind of nice to not have to wrangle stuff out of containers when you need to dig out the bandages or painkillers. YES PLEASE, anything to ease the pain of putting stuff down and placing containers in the hand slot and THEN taking the stuff out. If you decide to do this turn starvation and thirst as medical conditions so I don't have to open up bottles and check for the only one bottle I've got with purified water. I love your game but after dozens of plays it can get tedious.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:05
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I don't even keep stuff in pill bottles - it's not like you're saving any space by using one, it's just adding the extra step of fishing them out the container. Keep them open and mixed together in a jacket pocket!
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Jul 20, 2013 00:53
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@Thompsons, my first thought was "oof, that might be a lot of work." I'd probably need to clone each item like on the crafting screen, and make sure the clones and real items are synchronized (basically, so I don't have to remove the real versions from their slots/containers to show them on the medical screen). And the multiple pages (like for ingredients on the crafting page) are a bit of work to setup. I like the idea, though. I can see the improvement it would make to usability. In theory, I suppose I could skip any object that wasn't a consumable or usable on a wound, so I might even be able to skip building a paged container on the left side of the screen. Then, we'd just see food, liquids, drugs, rags, splints, and medkits. I'll definitely make a note to self about that. If I see a way to do it without going dark for a week, I may have to try it
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Jul 20, 2013 01:56
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are we going to see any player characters besides basic human in the near future?
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Jul 20, 2013 02:00
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I finally caved and bought the beta version, hope my  will help you make the game more awesome, Dan! I gotta say, your open and frequent contact with your players is what mostly convinced me to jump in. I was away from the game for a while, and after checking out the latest demo build, I see that you did a great job so far. Lots of new stuff for me to discover, and you better believe that I was scared when a swarm of Deer got attracted by my scavenging noises. However, the game wanted to thank me in its very own way...  After like ten or so failed runs, I finally managed to survive for two days. And then this happened.. 
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Jul 20, 2013 15:07
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@NiknudStunod, I'm not planning any other types of characters in the near future. However, I like games that allow for modding. So if I can find a way to make NEO Scavenger moddable, that may be a way. @Tin Tim, thanks for your support! Every purchase helps me postpone sending out my resume again And if I were you, I'd scavenge your current hex, banging around making as much noise as possible. Maybe you'll get lucky and a raider will walk into the trap!
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Jul 20, 2013 18:48
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Is there a difference between the demo and the jar of eyes version of the game? Because the demo had significantly easier starts compared the beta. For one, i had better loot and scavenging hexes in the demo and the number of bandits wandering around were much lower. The Beta has all the cities much farther away and bandits kill me after 3 or 4 turns. One game in the beta, i made it to zom-zom's and it was glorious. Excited for future releases.
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Jul 21, 2013 00:07
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There are differences, though I don't think they would cause what you are describing. The main differences between the demo and beta/Yukon versions are available items, save games, music, story encounters, access to the full map (e.g. DMC), and recipes. The map randomization is the same, so the early game shouldn't be much different between the two. The number of creatures wandering, loot frequency, and other difficulties should be the same, though randomness will cause variation from game-to-game.
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Jul 21, 2013 02:11
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So, I managed to lose my Botany skill in 0.97b   IIRC, the only thing I did with it was crafting a bow. So maybe it didn't automatically return when I left the crafting screen? Btw, the recepie for the bow is really too easy. Shouldn't it take more than some bits of string? Like, wood for instance? I would also appreciate it, if known recepies would be persistent bewteen runs. Yeah, it kinda goes against the fresh start idea, but it would be really convenient for players. Saves me the trouble of remembering the more complex combos, or looking them up on the net. After doing a bunch of combat, I've started to collect a lot of thoughts on the system. But I want to let them sit for a while, before I write them down. Right now, my main gripe is the lack of feedback. Like, you're basically just pushing buttons which isn't that exciting. Yeah, there are tense battles, but that's due to circumstances. I think you could spice it up a bit by maybe adding a few soundbites? Like some battle noises, grunts and that kind of thing. If I'm not totally mistaken, you're not too happy with the system yourself, right? But you shouldn't beat yourself over it, since you're doing a heck of a job for a mostly one man operation. It has a lot of room to grow. Minor bugs - I can use the night vision googles for scavening even if they have no power - When I click on my crafting tab, I often have one of my items immediately jump to my cursor. Maybe related to me playing at a higher resolution? (1360x768)
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Jul 21, 2013 14:55
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I had a pretty good run, 5 days and 10 hours. I was planning to stay in the cryo facility for a long time but was forced out when an army of bandits surrounded me: I fled east, but died of diarrhea two days later because I didn't have a pan to boil my water  I survived internal bleeding and a crippled arm this time, and found lots of guns, but I've actually never found any bullets (except the ones that were shot into my arm )Now I found out that double-clicking works in the inventory and that you can purify three water at one time the game is fun again  ekuNNN fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 17:13
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Tin Tim posted:I would also appreciate it, if known recepies would be persistent bewteen runs. Yeah, it kinda goes against the fresh start idea, but it would be really convenient for players. Saves me the trouble of remembering the more complex combos, or looking them up on the net.
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Jul 21, 2013 17:51
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ekuNNN posted:I had a pretty good run, 5 days and 10 hours. I was planning to stay in the cryo facility for a long time but was forced out when an army of bandits surrounded me  On that topic, it may be worthwile to fudge the spawn table a little bit, so that a starting player has a higher chance to meet Looters or Melon Heads, instead of Bandits and Raiders. I know that the randomness plays a big role in this, but I seem to consistently get hosed over by tough enemies while having found next to nothing.  This was a particularly bad situation. I mean, look at how close I am to the spawn point. And at least one of those jerks had a gun. Now, I admit that I attracted some of them while scavening. I had to chance it, as I was on the way to freezing to death after getting caught by rain. But it just spiraled downward from there. I guess what I want to say is that this wasteland seems suspiciously well populated, and that the tough enemies kinda force me to start more runs in close succession than I would like. Of course I died. But in a way that maybe wasn't intended by Dan. I'm gonna spoiler it, since it deals with the hidden effect of an item. When the swarm caught me, I got knocked out by them. I was pretty happy, since I surely didn't expect to survive. But then I realized that one of them stole my amulet. Yeah, this spawned the "gently caress-you ghost" and he murdered me. I had a good laugh, but at the same time it seems like something that shouldn't happen. But I also have something nice to say, since I discovered two random encounters. Pretty cool stuff, Dan! I'm going to put some words about them in a spoiler, so don't read it if you're new to this.  One of them was the pregnant bandit lady, and I saved her child. Now, I had Medic, but can't say if that influenced the encounter. Would be sweet if it did, though. I kinda expect it from a game like this, and think other people also do. This is also why I left the screaming woman to the slavers in the other encounter. I had no hiding skill, and assumed my chances to therefore be very bad. It would also have been neat if the bandit lady encounter would have a chance to give a small reward for saving the baby. Like, maybe they toss you a piece of meat or a bottle with dirty water?
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Jul 21, 2013 19:02
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I think the effect of eating berries and mushrooms doesn't stack if you eat multiple, might be a bug? edit: oh, sometimes it does work, hmm.
ekuNNN fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 23:20
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Tin Tim posted:One of them was the pregnant bandit lady, and I saved her child. Now, I had Medic, but can't say if that influenced the encounter. Would be sweet if it did, though. I kinda expect it from a game like this, and think other people also do. This is also why I left the screaming woman to the slavers in the other encounter. I had no hiding skill, and assumed my chances to therefore be very bad. It would also have been neat if the bandit lady encounter would have a chance to give a small reward for saving the baby. Like, maybe they toss you a piece of meat or a bottle with dirty water? It always kind of bothered me that the second encounter gives no option to stand and fight, at least long enough for the woman to escape, even if your character is rambling around with dual scoped rifles full of bullets. It would probably be suicide, but that's what makes post-apocalyptic acts of maniacal heroism so awesome: you're laying everything on the line in a mad gamble to help some poor bastard you've never met, because gallantry is not dead, just scraping to survive in rags and furs  I kind of like that some (most (all)) encounters give you fuckall for doing the Right Thing. It's somehow more satisfying to perform random acts of kindness for people when you get nothing in return - most games just give you a slightly different reward, but NEO Scavenger is a game about scrabbling to stay alive in an actively malevolent world, so it wouldn't make much sense for a penniless drifter with no food or water to somehow give you something for saving his life. I actually prefer it this way - your reward for saving that dude is that you're one of the few, flickering motes of light and hope in a world lost in darkness. Also I did not know about that thing you spoilered first. As soon as I thought about it, I realized, "ohhhh, that's why." I wonder what the story is behind that? e: ekuNNN posted:I fled east, but died of diarrhea two days later because I didn't have a pan to boil my water Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 12:53
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Re: bow recipe, that's a bug. The greenwood bow is meant to require wood, string, a blade, and ranged skill, but can be done without wood and consumes the botany skill instead. Should be fixed in 0.974. Re: saving recipes between sessions, that's an interesting idea. I can't think of a reason this would hurt the game (e.g. disrupt balance), and it seems like a usability win. I'll make a note of it for future reference. Re: night vision goggles usable without power, that should be addressed in 0.974, too. The crafting tab issue you mention is in all resolutions, and due to the OnMouseUp event firing before the crafting page loads, snagging whatever item is under the cursor. I have to figure out a way to make sure the mouse release doesn't register in that case. Re: groups of enemies being game ruiners, this might actually improve in 0.974. Currently, running away without Athletic is a losing game. The movement chances are lower against a group, causing the enemies to slowly gain on a fleeing target. However, 0.974 introduces an extra move chance on "Run Away" and "Sprint Away" moves. This should make it possible to just barely outrun a group and get away most times. Re: losing the special item, enemies that loot the player will only take the amulet some of the time. Usually, they shouldn't. And combined with the flee changes above, the "gently caress you ghost" should be a bit easier to escape in the future. However temporary that escape may be Re: berries and mushrooms stacking, they should each fire a discreet feeding condition when consumed. The effects may not be visible on the stat bars, but they're happening. The stat bars have a limited granularity. @Angry Diplomat and Tin Tim, currently, most of the random encounters are designed in such a way that any unskilled player can participate in 3-4 outcomes. Cameron and I wanted at least a few options available to anyone. I was tempted* to start adding skill-based choices to many of them, but I'd still be working on them now if I did. I may yet go back and add some in the future, but for now, they're mostly about illustrating the setting and tone in an interactive way.*like, really. Reading these comments is giving me an eye twitch. Angry Diplomat posted:ekuNNN posted: Nice. That about sums it up! One of my favorite encapsulations of NEO Scavenger was from MagSlug at the Groupees website:quote:It's like a Choose Your Own Adventure book combined with the early "explore the world" phase from a Civilization game combined with that one scene from They Live where Keith David and Rowdy Roddy Piper beat each other up in an alley.
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Jul 23, 2013 16:19
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Thanks for the heads-up, Dan! I'm really looking forward to 0.974, and restrain myself from playing too much till then. I've been making notes while playing, so I'll just drop a few things here. - I may have found a way to safely drink dirty water. I had to do it a few times, so I figured if I pop antibiotics I won't get sick from it. I tried that a few times, drinking like 6+ drops of dirty water, and never got sick. - It would be nice if I could just kill an unconscious target, instead of attacking till it dies. - Having pill bottles show the exact number would be sweet. So people that want to carry them, have an easier time checking their stock. - While the game is in beta, a periodic autosave could be helpful. I had it crash a few times, erasing hours of progress. - When you place a medium fire in the crafting tab, it sometimes will only produce one ash. You have to place it again, sometimes more often, to have it make two. - My recepies sometimes stop working from the known tab. Pretty hard to say why, but I've mostly seen it on longer games. You can kinda break it by accident though. If you craft something from the known tab, and then take the items from the result tab, the known tab stops working. It gets fixed once you leave the crafting menu though. This could maybe build up to a bug on longer games? I also have some questions - Can cured meat spoil? I thought it couldn't but saw it in my last game. It was also kinda random, so that's why I ask. - Do enemies have a real "life"? Like, they pick up stuff when travelling on the map I think. But are they affected by other conditions like weather and food? - Is there a way to find out what melee weapon is better than the other? Like, a cleaver should obviously be better than a wrench. But how does it relate to a crowbar or spears?
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Jul 23, 2013 19:33
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Is there a lower chance to get sick from water that is the result of rain/from a river by chance? In a few games I had to cave in and drink un-purified water and I always did it from a river/rainfall and my dude never got sick from it. I do usually take Tough though, so I don't know if that's the reason or if it's a combination of things.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:52
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 New Demo and Beta Builds
Beta Only Updates:
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Jul 24, 2013 04:14
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Thanks for the update, Xik! Re: drinking dirty water, I actually use the same technique on my playtests, and I also haven't caught cholera yet. I haven't looked up whether that should technically work, but my gut feeling is that the antibiotics clear early cholera before it establishes itself. Re: killing an unconscious target, have you tried melee flurry? I don't think I've ever had to use that move more than once on an unconscious target to kill it. Re: pill bottle numbers, I've been wondering about how hard it'd be to add stack counters to the peek view on the pop up. Maybe I should look into that. Re: autosave, you aren't the first to ask. Though, some others have said they'd prefer to have control over saves. If the game continues to be that unstable, I may just have to do it. Re: campfire and ashes, that seems strange. I'll take a look! Re: quick recipes stop working periodically, that should be fixed in 0.974. Can cured meat spoil? Yes. It just takes longer than regular meat. Do creatures have a real life? As much as possible, yes. They are affected by all the same conditions that the player is, so they can freeze, starve, and perish from thirst. They sleep when they're tired (and will prefer day/night depending on nocturnalism). They also choose a home hex, and those that use items will bring loot back to it, creating a hoard. Finally, some species respect a leader/alpha, and will follow it around. Some players have dug through the game code to find the weapon stats (among other things), and I think they just used a text editor. I seem to remember a thread about it at bluebottlegames.com. @Justin Credible, in practice, yes, rivers and lakes tend to be safer to drink. There are actually two types of water in the game: clean and infected. However, they both look the same when unidentified. Boiling either of them produces purified water (clean water, identified). Drinking infected water results in a chance of contracting cholera. The river/lake tends to have a lower proportion of infected water than marshes. Finding water via botany in the forest tends to be safer, too. Toughness won't necessarily stop cholera from happening, but will help ride-out the symptoms a bit. Thanks for the feedback, and enjoy the new build!
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Jul 24, 2013 15:01
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Xik posted:
 BlueBottleGames posted:Re: killing an unconscious target, have you tried melee flurry? I don't think I've ever had to use that move more than once on an unconscious target to kill it. BlueBottleGames posted:Do creatures have a real life? As much as possible, yes. They are affected by all the same conditions that the player is, so they can freeze, starve, and perish from thirst. They sleep when they're tired (and will prefer day/night depending on nocturnalism). They also choose a home hex, and those that use items will bring loot back to it, creating a hoard. Finally, some species respect a leader/alpha, and will follow it around. 
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Jul 24, 2013 15:34
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Speaking of cured meats, is anyone else a little peeved at how quickly cured meat goes bad? I haven't really timed it, but I believe it turns to sludge in under a week, which is kind of extreme.
Soup du Journey fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 17:58
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Good update. Combat is hilarious if you have ranged skill and make a sling, knocking out bandits and breaking ribs with pebbles and some of the most available materials in the game. e - and then I do a quick recipe for a lit campfire.. and instead of branches and twigs being the initial ingredients, it used clean rags and a .38 revolver, clicked before I looked. Waa waa waaaaaaaaa. Justin Credible fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 23:42
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Doctor Schnabel posted:Speaking of cured meats, is anyone else a little peeved at how quickly cured meat goes bad? I haven't really timed it, but I believe it turns to sludge in under a week, which is kind of extreme. Yeah, the one time I cured meat it didn't seem to hold up for more than a few days so it didn't seem like worth the trouble to use meat. So now I've just gone entirely vegetarian. I'm excited to try the new build!
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Jul 25, 2013 02:17
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I like to cook the meat I find and eat it all at once since while it doesn't last long enough to make stocking all of what you get from big game worthwhile, it does provide a little bit of clean hydration which is GREAT if you have no purified water or antibiotics. Helps that satiation decreases pretty slowly so it's not too punishing if you go short on food for a bit. e: I've discovered the ultimate secret of Botany - edible mushrooms (found with it, at least) do not have a quality percentage and thus to my understanding never rot. Stockpile to your heart's content and you can go wander wherever you like. Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 02:44
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The new version seems pretty swell so far! My first game had a really rough start, but I managed to turn it around. It seems like that's mostly due to fleeing from combat working better than before, and I also seem to trip less while running. Though I have Athletic, so it may be worse for other players. I found no clothes on the first day, got beaten up real hard by bandits and only managed to find a meat cleaver and a pot. No plastic bag, bottles or anything else. I had to hustle to get the materials for a fire to the Cryo lab, and then butchered the Dogman corpse. I usually don't like to do that on the first day, since you waste meat by not having ash for curing some of it. But I needed that drat coat, as I had nasty hypothermia. The meat sustained me for the next day, and I slowly managed to collect items and improve my situation. I still ran from a bunch of encounters, and only stabbed stuff at range with my spear if I really had to. The spear is a pretty good weapon, when you can manage to stay at range three, or fall back/sprint when you're not. Of course, multiple enemies will still wreck you, but single combat is manageable if you're smart about the commands. It's also a great tool for running away. A nasty stab can hinder an opponent for a turn, and gives you the opportunity to sprint away from him. Now I'm sitting on day three, and things look pretty okay.   This may become my most successful run so far, provided that I don't get cocky. Some things I discovered.. - I somehow managed to have items disapear when I placed them on the ground. It started from the medical tab, and spread from there. It got fixed though after I saved and reloaded. - The context command for take/drop stopped working for me once. A reload didn't fix it, but moving to another hex did. - When boiling water from the known tab, the game wants to use electric charges, despite there being a fire. That would be a waste, and I'm also not sure how I feel about being able to boil water with the charges of an AA battery. - It's cool that you can boil water in a whisky bottle but I think there should be a downside to it. Like, let the bottle only boil one drop at a time, the soup can two, and the pot three. This way, the player still has more options for boiling, but the pot stays valuable. - The game also sometimes selected purified water for the tripple boiling, which it shouldn't do. - If you craft the same recepies from the known tab in succession(like water or meat) it sometimes won't work right. Usually when you're down to the last copies of the items you use. You expend time, and the recepie seems to work, but the result does not appear in your inventory. I tried to cook the same piece of meat for like four times, till I noticed that it wasn't happening. - My savegame seems to get nuked by my CC cleaner. Is there a way to avoid this? Also, I had a small idea for better feedback during combat. I get kinda tired from reading the log after most turns. If you hit but don't cause any effect, you have to look into the log to know it. But a very basic animation for hit&miss could spice that up. Like, when somebody is hit, a red slash could appear over the model for a moment, or a punchy thing for blunt weapons. And missing could be shown with an empty swipe or something. But I envision these animations/graphics as a really basic thing. Like, on the level of RPGmaker animations, you know?
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Jul 25, 2013 15:15
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Since you apparently have Trapping as evidenced by the dogman fur coat, why not turn that sharpened spear into a broad spear? IIRC, you need the shaft (sharpened spear), some flexible bindings (I think you can use rags or maybe even medium string for that; I believe I used an old rifle strap), a cutting implement (I used a multitool but you might actually be able to adapt that cleaver - worth a try), and the Trapping skill. The broad spear is a quite solid weapon and it can be used as a butchering and cutting tool, to boot. edit: oh man, I see you've got some of the new ammo types. It was a downer in the initial test version to find all these pistols, revolvers, shotguns, and so forth, but not a single round for any of them in all the world. edit: Started a new game and immediately got shot in the chest with a shotgun. 
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 15:30
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Hah, I totally forgot that there is a third spear.  But you actually don't need trapping for it. The cleaver works as a tool, but you also need something sharp to make the tip from. Angry Diplomat posted:edit: oh man, I see you've got some of the new ammo types. It was a downer in the initial test version to find all these pistols, revolvers, shotguns, and so forth, but not a single round for any of them in all the world. E: The shotgun in my stash also has a funny story to it. I got it from kiling a banged up raider. He just charged at me, so I figured that it was empty. After stabbing him to death, I discovered that it was loaded with two slugs. He could have killed me easily. 
Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 15:43
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Yeah, I managed to kill a raider holding a rifle by rushing him, knocking him down, and stabbing the poo poo out of him - I figured he had no ammo since he kept advancing towards me instead of shooting at me. Turns out the rifle had two rounds in it. Use it or lose it In other news, Melonheads are actually super duper dangerous with the new AI. They'll swarm you, literally dogpile you by mass-tackling you, and crowd around kicking you to death. edit: I keep looking at the skills menu and wondering why there are so many skills that have super niche uses and/or overlap with each other. Why not consolidate Hacking and Electrician into a single Electronics skill? Why bother with a Tracking skill with exactly two uses, instead of just rolling it into Trapping or Stealth? Consolidating fringe skills together would save a lot of headache, particularly with the skills that are almost humorously bad compared to major survival stuff like Trapping, Botany, or Athletics. Another option, and one I kind of like better now that I think about it, would be to weight skills according to their relative power. Weaker skills could take up fewer "slots" by essentially being smaller items on the selection screen, while very powerful abilities would take up larger amounts of skill real estate. The same could be done with drawbacks - Insomnia is rarely more than a severe annoyance, whereas the faster Metabolism can kill the poo poo out of you with more frequent hunger/thirst penalties and a much greater risk of death by starvation/dehydration, and the faster healing is not a great tradeoff for that at all. The more I consider that idea, the more I like it - it would give characters room for a couple of critical survival skills and a handful of specialist abilities, or you could make a survival juggernaut wildman berserker with essentially no specialty skills at all, or even a hapless Joe with no real combat or wilderness survival knowledge but an impressively diverse set of trade and specialty skills. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 17:12
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Things that it has tried to use for building fires/boiling water auto recipes, when the basic stuff is available (twigs, branches, torn paper, lighter, etc). -Bullets -Pistol -Pharaoh sleeping bag -Electric charge -Nano medkit (which when boiling three waters will reduce the condition by like 10%) -Clean rags Maybe another item property that makes the item not get auto-recipe'd? Some stuff despite it being -possible- you probably would never ever actually -use- it to do that stuff. Makes auto-crafting into something that's not always usable for certain things, having to switch the ingredients around anyway.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:47
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Re: cured meat, I think the duration is being affected by the raw meat that's used to make it. Recipes with consumed ingredients will produce an output item with a condition no higher than the worst consumable. It makes sense for most recipes, but meat is sort of a special case. Fire, too. I fixed the issue with ashes causing this problem, but I may have to add a flag to some recipes to ignore that feature althogether. @Tin Tim, that electric charge bug sounds a bit fishy. The revolver Ignatius mentions too. I may have to check the quick recipes again and see what's up, as a lot of the bugs being mentioned here (and elsewhere) seem related to quick recipe item picking. Boiling water in non-saucepans is a bug, currently. The tin can was supposed to be just for 1x water, while the saucepan for up to 3x. The whiskey bottle was an accident, though I've heard some players say it breaks quickly when used like that. I may be ok with leaving it if that's the case, but the tin can needs to be fixed. Re: save games and CC cleaner, unfortunately, no fix for this yet. I'm tentatively looking into other technologies besides Flash, partly for this reason, but I'm reluctant to promise anything. Such a port could be way more work than I can manage Re: combat feedback, I agree the battle screen would benefit from less text parsing. Icons, animations, and other effects could really help. That'd be a bit of a project to do right, but I've got it on my reminder list. @Angry Diplomat, I'm actually thinking of doing some of those skills suggestions. I'm waiting until later to start resizing skills, traits, and their container sizes, since balance could change in the interim. As for the niche and overlaps, I'm waiting a bit longer before consolidating or removing any skills. I have a few ideas for how to make hacker and electrician more interesting, and some items which might make mechanic more fun. Depending on how those evolve, it might be ok to keep them. We'll see, though. @Justin Credible, yeah, the quick recipe parser is fairly dumb. It's pretty much a straight value comparison, and cheaper items get preferred first. The thing is, cheaper doesn't equal less valuable depending on the context. The ideal case might be to give each item a sorting priority, and just manually assign heuristic values. I'm not sure that those values are static, though. It might be that a sleeping bag as fuel is a poor choice if you're freezing, but the obvious one if you're already warm and clearing up that old, bulky sleeping bag in camp. Definitely some food for thought, here!
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Jul 26, 2013 01:08
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I think for priority sorting of auto crafting, it would be fine if it fits the "90%" case. That is to say that 90% of the time, what the auto crafting chooses is what the player would have picked manually. For the other 10%, it's fine to just have to pick your ingredients manually, since it's not going to be that common and I think people are generally not annoyed with having to do things a bit manually when the circumstances are unusual (for example in the sleeping bag example you gave, it's not a big deal if that one time you actually do want to burn your sleeping bag as fuel that you have to drag it over). It gets a bit tricky I guess when it comes to stuff that's used for a lot of different things, but it's not as if you have to actually figure out a unique priority for every item in the game. Stuff like sticks or dirty water are easy to get, so they would probably be safe as a high priority choice no matter what the situation. *edit* something that might be a convenient feature - for ranged weapons, maybe have it skip over ammo types you aren't actually carrying when selecting the attack type? There's not a lot of point in having to cycle past a bunch of "x0" ammo options when you want to switch to a melee attack. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 01:32
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BlueBottleGames posted:Boiling water in non-saucepans is a bug, currently. The tin can was supposed to be just for 1x water, while the saucepan for up to 3x. The whiskey bottle was an accident, though I've heard some players say it breaks quickly when used like that. I may be ok with leaving it if that's the case, but the tin can needs to be fixed. The quick recepies do act weird in a few cases. I do appreciate it when the combinations are more flexible, but the choice conditions need to be a bit tighter. Sometimes the game will choose an item that you don't want to use, and when you replace it, the recepie will not work. But you'll expend time and some of the items get consumed. Had that happen while crafting spears. This is a slightly similar thing,  The game wants to use existing arrows, and when you remove it, the crafting option doesn't show. It also didn't show to begin with. Have some more stuff from my NEO.txt - I got stuck in the combat screen after this.  I couldn't exit it, no matter what I tried. When I placed a command in the right box, it disappeared when I picked it up again. Saving and reloading the game had this outcome:  And I was stuck. - When building a broad spear, the durability seems to be based on what you use for the tip. Is that intended? - Forest shacks may have been nerfed a bit too hard. I regularly get only a single item from a full green bar. They were definitely too good when I played the demo before, but now I mostly avoid them as the loot has degraded very hard. - I was under the impression that items in the Cryo Lab campsite would be safe, and couldn't be stolen. But it happened to me. Two bandits attacked me while I was standing on the lab. One fled pretty early, since I had a bow, and the other got away with mortal wounds. Both were one hex away, on opposite sides after that. I checked my campsite and it was almost empty! Like, a bunch of really good stuff just vanished. I tracked and killed both of my attackers, and recovered some of my items. But a good portion of stuff just vanished. Could another bandit have stolen items while I was fighting the others? Or is the campsite just not safe after all? - If you want to make the mechanic skill more appealing, you could allow it to repair guns. Like, with some scrap wood or metal. - It would be a neat touch, if the different bottles would actually have the color of what they contain. Thanks for being so open with us, Dan! I don't want to seem like I'm just drowning you in bug reports/ideas, but I tend to make lots of notes while playing. Hope it helps you in a way. The Cheshire Cat posted:*edit* something that might be a convenient feature - for ranged weapons, maybe have it skip over ammo types you aren't actually carrying when selecting the attack type? There's not a lot of point in having to cycle past a bunch of "x0" ammo options when you want to switch to a melee attack. Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 18:51
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You know the arrows to scroll enemies when there is more than one? There is an arrow like that at, the top right of the item output box. That cycles through recipes that are available based on the ingredients. That one took me a while to figure out.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:03
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Tin Tim posted:- If you want to make the mechanic skill more appealing, you could allow it to repair guns. Like, with some scrap wood or metal. I like this idea; maybe something similar could be done with electrician and electronic items (there aren't many at the moment so I guess all you could really use it for is NVG, but I imagine more fitting stuff will be added later). Actually one thing that might be nice with electrician is perhaps some way to recharge batteries by cobbling together electronic scrap. It seems like most of the time I find them or something containing them, they have no charge in them. Tin Tim posted:- I was under the impression that items in the Cryo Lab campsite would be safe, and couldn't be stolen. But it happened to me. Two bandits attacked me while I was standing on the lab. One fled pretty early, since I had a bow, and the other got away with mortal wounds. Both were one hex away, on opposite sides after that. I checked my campsite and it was almost empty! Like, a bunch of really good stuff just vanished. I tracked and killed both of my attackers, and recovered some of my items. But a good portion of stuff just vanished. Could another bandit have stolen items while I was fighting the others? Or is the campsite just not safe after all? I know that the hiding skill lets you see the campsite's concealment score - I think this only applies to players using it at the moment, but what if that value applied to items stashed at a campsite too? So if you wanted to keep things safe from looting, you go to the camp screen and add them to the site, and NPCs entering that hex would have to pass some kind of check against the camp's concealment to be able to loot them. Related to camp sites, one thing that's still getting me a lot is early game hypothermia since I can't manage to find enough clothing in time to not die - especially if it's raining. Does hanging out in a hex with a campsite treat you as actually being IN that camp site? If they have good "shelter" scores (like the cryo lab), you should be protected from the rain even if you aren't sleeping there I'd think. It might help with the problem a lot of people get where if it starts raining in the first couple of turns, you're pretty much guaranteed to die unless you picked the right skills at the start to be able to quickly make a fire or kill and skin the dogman (trapping for the former and trapping + eagle eye + melee/strong for the latter). It's just kind of annoying to get stuck with a bunch of false starts because you get bad luck with loot. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 05:31
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I know that the hiding skill lets you see the campsite's concealment score - I think this only applies to players using it at the moment, but what if that value applied to items stashed at a campsite too? So if you wanted to keep things safe from looting, you go to the camp screen and add them to the site, and NPCs entering that hex would have to pass some kind of check against the camp's concealment to be able to loot them.  Since then, I'm always keeping found ammo and some other important stuff on my person, and just pray that no bandit walks on my camp. You can kinda help that by not scavening too close to the lab. Keeps the area clear, and there is less of a chance that someone will follow your tracks back to the lab. Though I have to say that the situation I described earlier seems kinda bullshit. I was fighting the assholes, how could they have gotten past me, into the lab, and back out with all my stuff? The Cheshire Cat posted:Related to camp sites, one thing that's still getting me a lot is early game hypothermia since I can't manage to find enough clothing in time to not die - especially if it's raining. Does hanging out in a hex with a campsite treat you as actually being IN that camp site? Spoiler about reaching the Glow I used trapping during the encouter with Hatter, which seemed like an awfully abrupt solution to the situation. Dunno, it just seemed weird to me that he was my best pal suddenly, just because I was smart enough to tell that his offer was fishy. Also, the pass got placed on the ground. Would be better if it gets placed in the inventory, as it's really easy to miss that. Some NEO.txt  More proof that quick recepies act weird  And that the crafting option doesn't show sometimes - The Greenwood bow degrades pretty rapidly, even if you just carry it without actually shooting. I realize that it's a very powerful and easy to make weapon, but the degrate rate seems a tad high. Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 15:56
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