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Ryuga Death posted:Is Fast Hands that useless? I like being able to pick up bags quickly, but if it is useless, I'll respec my Ghost tree. Fast hands is nice when you open up the bank vault and there's 8 bags in there. Saves a bit of time on packing.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:21
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Vatek posted:How is overkill pointless? Acing it isn't really worth it but non-ace skill makes a huge difference for shotguns outside of point blank range (granted, it's not going to do much for the mosconi). It's a great skill for the 4 points that it costs. So ignore that, I'm apparently illiterate.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:25
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Vaults are a good example. Big payout bank vaults especially, where all four of you shouldn't be standing around the table like idiots packing bags. I can pack 3-4 bags and toss them out of the vault in the time a non-specced teammate can do 1, so it works out better to just let me do it and wait outside for the handoff.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:25
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Moochewmoo posted:So I think I've arrived on what might be the best possible build for me. It combines having awesome shotgun stuff, Joker, Stealth, and the saw (Because I want it) into one build. I'm not sure where to improve it honestly. Drop the Joker ace and ace Iron Man. That mother fucker is a game changer.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:28
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http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/04/26 Just replace the Lookout with a Mastermind, the Cleaner with an Enforcer, and the Locksmith with a Ghost. The Mole is a Tech. The heist is Ukranian Job.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:28
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Coolguye posted:My bad, I've been misreading the skill for like 2 weeks apparently. I always read it as 'when you kill someone with the saw, you get a damage bonus with shotguns'. To which I was always just like 'yeah I'll instead just use a shotgun.' Heh. For the record, it doubles your shotgun/saw damage for 6 seconds after you score a kill with a shotgun/saw and there is no internal cooldown so when you're actively killing cops it will be up basically all the time. I've said this before but it's probably the best 4-point skill in the entire game.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:41
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Does Ace Pumping Iron just extend the melee damage buff to specials, or does it also crank your damage against regulars up even MORE? I'm looking at grabbing it, but I don't have any reason to melee specials until I get the Iron Man Ace.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:42
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Pharmaskittle posted:Does Ace Pumping Iron just extend the melee damage buff to specials, or does it also crank your damage against regulars up even MORE? I'm looking at grabbing it, but I don't have any reason to melee specials until I get the Iron Man Ace. The basic doubles your attack damage again non-specials, the ace doubles it against all enemies. So it sounds like it just extends the 2x damage to the specials for the ace. Sadly, you can't go Fist of the North Star all over Bank Heist.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:52
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Unrelated, I am surprised so many people say you *need* the Big Oil 1 intel or things get way harder. I haven't played it a lot but the times I have played we were able to find the info easily, either through stealth or the method of "IT'S CRIME TIME"-ing our way through the front door. Just look for clipboards, yeah? Getting at least part of the intel is pretty much key to making it go much smoother though. Having a keycard or the plane keys means you can avoid drilling/exploding/ECMing one of the 3 or so possible doors (which helps a little), and you can also extract as soon as your engine is verified rather than having to wait for the chopper to come back.
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Aug 20, 2013 18:59
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Vatek posted:Heh. For the record, it doubles your shotgun/saw damage for 6 seconds after you score a kill with a shotgun/saw and there is no internal cooldown so when you're actively killing cops it will be up basically all the time. Yup. When it's active a Locomotive out of the box one shots heavy FBI units.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:01
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So many of the Mastermind skills seem like they might be useless depending on how they work and the situation. Does anyone have the "revive crew members by shouting at them" ace? Is it literally just like, if you look at your crew member and are within 50 feet you can revive them by pressing E, or what? And is the civvie revive any good? Or do they hardly ever do it?
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Aug 20, 2013 19:02
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:And is the civvie revive any good? Or do they hardly ever do it? It sounds good, but the likelihood that you'll be downed next to a hostage is so low that the points are better spent elsewhere. You only really start getting dropped a lot toward the end of missions and hostages start to get pulled out by then.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:05
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Slim Killington posted:It sounds good, but the likelihood that you'll be downed next to a hostage is so low that the points are better spent elsewhere. You only really start getting dropped a lot toward the end of missions and hostages start to get pulled out by then. Plus all your hostages are usually tied down, lest they escape when you're not looking.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:Plus all your hostages are usually tied down, lest they escape when you're not looking. Wait, the skill requires the hostage to be free? That must be drat near worthless, since any hostage that isn't tied down usually bolts during the first assault wave, generally into the direction of your firing lines.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:15
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:Does anyone have the "revive crew members by shouting at them" ace? Is it literally just like, if you look at your crew member and are within 50 feet you can revive them by pressing E, or what? It doesn't work 50 feet away, maybe more like 15-20 feet but that's just an estimate. It's an instant revive, but it's really hard to use when you have dominator and there's a bunch of guys standing around the body of the guy you're trying to revive, you usually end up just yelling at them to get down rather than be able to revive your friend. Also, sometimes it just doesn't work, you'll be yelling to get up and they won't.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:26
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Wait, the skill requires the hostage to be free? That must be drat near worthless, since any hostage that isn't tied down usually bolts during the first assault wave, generally into the direction of your firing lines. I figure it's more for people with Control Freak and a firebreather barrel extension since they'll keep every civvie locked down permanently without a single zip-tie.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:35
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The loving Mosconi  As an enforcer (with all the shotgun upgrades) there's no reason not to go Mosconi/Locomotive. Seriously.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:38
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So I'm relatively new to Payday, and I just unlocked the Saw and... I don't get it? Am I seriously supposed to give up a primary weapon to use it? I tried a mission with the Saw/Locomotive and the saw seemed incredibly useless. It broke ridiculously quickly and it seemed like it was just completetly outclassed by C4? I mean C4 doesn't even use up your Primary Weapon... Am I missing something? Am I not always supposed to take the saw on every mission I guess, then?
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Aug 20, 2013 19:46
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ChewyLSB posted:Am I missing something? Am I not always supposed to take the saw on every mission I guess, then?
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Aug 20, 2013 19:47
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ChewyLSB posted:So I'm relatively new to Payday, and I just unlocked the Saw and... I don't get it? Am I seriously supposed to give up a primary weapon to use it? I tried a mission with the Saw/Locomotive and the saw seemed incredibly useless. It broke ridiculously quickly and it seemed like it was just completetly outclassed by C4? I mean C4 doesn't even use up your Primary Weapon... The other tip I've read over and over is to tap the mouse button not hold it down to unlock/break vaults. edit: Also it's good if you've Aced the perk that lets you have infinite ammo for a certain period of time after you drop an ammo bag. If you're doing a bank heist simply drop an ammo bag and then hold down the mouse button and go to town on a shitload of deposit boxes.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:48
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ChewyLSB posted:Am I missing something? Am I not always supposed to take the saw on every mission I guess, then? You only bring the saw where you need it, and you need to lightly tap the button and have a fair idea of where to saw. The saw can hit some things C4 can't but yes it is quite a pain and chews through its ammo, even after upgrading. real_scud posted:edit: Also it's good if you've Aced the perk that lets you have infinite ammo for a certain period of time after you drop an ammo bag. If you're doing a bank heist simply drop an ammo bag and then hold down the mouse button and go to town on a shitload of deposit boxes. Oh this is a wonderful idea.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:50
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The Saw is for very specific things that you can't get any other way or any other time effective way. Bank deposit boxes, locking bars in the Museum, ATMs and a bunch of other stuff if you don't have a tech (doors, trucks, etc.).
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Aug 20, 2013 19:50
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real_scud posted:edit: Also it's good if you've Aced the perk that lets you have infinite ammo for a certain period of time after you drop an ammo bag. If you're doing a bank heist simply drop an ammo bag and then hold down the mouse button and go to town on a shitload of deposit boxes. This doesn't work. Or it didn't in the beta at least.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:51
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Last night a teammate asked me if I had any gadgets, and I don't. How do I get gadgets/assign them to my character?
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Aug 20, 2013 19:52
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dreffen posted:This doesn't work.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:54
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real_scud posted:edit: Also it's good if you've Aced the perk that lets you have infinite ammo for a certain period of time after you drop an ammo bag. If you're doing a bank heist simply drop an ammo bag and then hold down the mouse button and go to town on a shitload of deposit boxes. That skill doesn't apply to the saw.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:54
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Literal Nazi Furry posted:That skill doesn't apply to the saw.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:54
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rear end Catchcum posted:Last night a teammate asked me if I had any gadgets, and I don't. How do I get gadgets/assign them to my character? Been wondering the same thing. I think it's for stuff like flashlights on the gun.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:55
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bef posted:The loving Mosconi Seriously. I used this with the enforcer armor on a very hard watchdogs with some 20ish pubs. While they were retreating to the usual high ground I was out in the poo poo shotgunning cops from 50 yards away. Eventually I got into some poo poo while trying to help out the one pub who decided to be a badass with me. He went down and there were about ten cops surrounding him. Dropped my ammo bag and bullet storm Mosconi did the rest. It was the most :tex: I've ever felt and he was laughing his rear end off at the rapid fire boomstick. My one problem with enforcer is that you don't have many options except murder which, in fairness, is a pretty helpful option. But I dont have the tools to do shaped charge runs or mastermind/ghost stealth shenanigans.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:56
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:So many of the Mastermind skills seem like they might be useless depending on how they work and the situation. Does anyone have the "revive crew members by shouting at them" ace? Is it literally just like, if you look at your crew member and are within 50 feet you can revive them by pressing E, or what? The shouting revive is awesome I have helped so many goon groups with it that its insane, you can also shout through walls too as long as your within the revive distance. However due to it being an instant revive sometimes people don't realise just how much they have died and end up using all their lives.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:58
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Was someone able to get Low Visibility with the light-weight combat vest? I finally got the mods needed to get to low visibility but that is with the suit. I have the Chino88 with the smallest silencer, and the UAR with the short barrel and i'm good to go. However I really want a setup where I have my silenced pistol + a decent primary + the lightweight vest and I'm still at low visibility.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:58
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All this talk of visibility is confusing me a bit. Does it really make that much of a difference? I still sneak past cameras and guards in full gently caress-you gear with double shotguns... I can't recall a time where it really mattered. I understand switching to something lighter for speed, but not visibility.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:13
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Its also pretty dumb that you have to dump so many points to make the saw actually useful and its only useful in certain situations (mostly obtaining cash). Even then once you hit a high enough level cash isn't a priority and you're more concerned about completing the mission/getting XP that speccing into a Enforcer-armored shotgun Rambo is the way to go.Great Beer posted:
Yeah the only fault with the Enforcer is they're all about action. But between being the ammo supplier, shield buster, and the primary cop-slayer, I'd say the Enforcer is one of the essential classes that every team needs to have. If things all go to poo poo chances are a good Enforcer can hold his own ground and clear up the mess. Not having to worry about Shields takes a huge load off the teams shoulders and Bulldozers are pretty much cake with a Mosconi. The only thing that's always an issue is the Tan FBI guys that only have a hitbox ON THEIR loving HEAD but aren't that bad with an extended Locomotive 
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Aug 20, 2013 20:27
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Dear Overkill, I like making masks. Please stop showing me the back of the mask unless you'll let me customize it.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:30
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H2SO4 posted:All this talk of visibility is confusing me a bit. Does it really make that much of a difference? I still sneak past cameras and guards in full gently caress-you gear with double shotguns... I can't recall a time where it really mattered. I understand switching to something lighter for speed, but not visibility. Visibility is basically your margin of error when it comes to being detected by guards/cameras - it affects at what distance the suspicion meter starts filling up and how fast it fills up from there. You CAN stealth with High visibility, but it's much harder as guards generally see you instantaneously when they so much as look at you from 50 feet away and if you screw up walking past a camera you basically blew the stealth portion of the heist. Having Low visibility with some of the Ghost traits gives you a ton of wiggle room to play around with and generally makes it a lot easier to stealth.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:32
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So how does the shouty revive work? Is it really an unlimited use long range instant revive, because that seems really overpowered.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:34
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real_scud posted:Well that's a bunch of loving bullshit, dunno why they would add it in as a special case for that perk considering it wouldn't even be that game breaking to have it get some infinite ammo. Well, it sort of would. 10 seconds of infinite saw would be enough to open every single deposit box, without needing to refill ammo once.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:37
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bef posted:The loving Mosconi I use a Mosconi/Deagle for Pistol Messiah. An upgraded Deagle is pretty drat good. Nice accuracy, one-shots tan guys to the head, 16 round magazine. Only problem I have with it is that it can be difficult to injure guys enough to convert them, since both my weapons kill enemies in a single shot unless you go for the arms/legs, which seems oddly unreliable as to whether they'll take damage or get hitstunned. Praseodymi posted:So how does the shouty revive work? Is it really an unlimited use long range instant revive, because that seems really overpowered. Mash shout at a dead teammate and maybe they'll get up, maybe not. Hope that the game decides to let you yell at your partner to revive himself and not for the nearby cops/civilians to get down. It doesn't have infinite range. Works a lot like Dominator, really.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:38
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Praseodymi posted:So how does the shouty revive work? Is it really an unlimited use long range instant revive, because that seems really overpowered. Limited range, but it's still far enough to make it totally viable if you have the option.
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Aug 20, 2013 20:38
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I use the loco pretty much 24/7 as a secondary but I try not to rely on the Mosconi all the time lest they nerf it or something. Plus, I find the assault rifles quite fun to use. 
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Aug 20, 2013 20:53
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