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I'd welcome a game where the "good" path is much, much more difficult than simply flat out more rewarding. 
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Aug 26, 2013 18:56
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Yeah, an all natural run should be hard to pull off. That is, if it's even something they "allow" or if you are just gonna get rail-roaded onto some sort of "Modified" path  THE HUBRIS (We might be slightly overstating the size & scope of this expansion)
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Aug 26, 2013 18:58
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poptart_fairy posted:I'd welcome a game where the "good" path is much, much more difficult than simply flat out more rewarding. Because good deeds are their own reward!
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Aug 26, 2013 19:17
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Andre Banzai posted:My guess is that we're gonna face a very fierce opposition in EW. Something so powerful that we're gonna have to make the difficult choice: sacrifice the soldiers' humanity to have a chance or risk battling impossible odds without employing meld. My only problem with the "choosing to stay pure vs. augment humans" idea is that it sounds way too much like a story-driven RPG. XCOM is a tactics game that is light on story and thus far it's "moral quandaries" have existed solely in throw-away flavor text. Maybe I'm alone, but I'd rather the "fierce challenge" just be really a tough opponent and let the players work in their own narrative about human purity. Otherwise it's going to be too story-driven, and we saw how well that worked with Slingshot.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:19
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Andre Banzai posted:1) If XCOM faces the organization employing meld as well, we're not much different than they. At least we'd agree with them that humanity is better off "evolved" this way. And yeah, the Ethereals wanted to "guide" us, didn't they? I don't get this line of thought at all. XCOM using meld in no way whatsoever makes them the same as the aliens. The Ethereals apparently enslave entire races and go around invading planets to test new races for <whatever>. We've seen nothing to indicate XCOM wants to "enhance" humanity at large any more than they want to draft the entire planet into nanofibre vests, hand them a laser pistol and force them to invade some unsuspecting world for a lark. XCOM is a small elite unit, and I'm going to go ahead and assume any troopers being melded volunteer for it, since making supersoldiers against their will would seem to run serious risks of them twisting your head off with their giant robot hands as soon as they get back in shape. If it turns out we actually drag screaming soldiers down to Shen's lab to lop off their limbs and then use drugs/psi to keep them under control, then yeah, then I'd be worried XCOM had taken a darker path, but until then it just seems to be a case of you using the alien's tech against them, much as you do with plasma guns.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:26
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Pfft, you guys are loving weird. I'm going to augment the hell out of my soldiers because that poo poo is loving cool. I'll keep a few gene assault troopers for close combat, a few MECH heavies and a number of regular supports and snipers to pad it out. I'll probably forget SHIV's even exist though. drat the consequences!
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Aug 26, 2013 19:31
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Darkrenown posted:I don't get this line of thought at all. XCOM using meld in no way whatsoever makes them the same as the aliens. The Ethereals apparently enslave entire races and go around invading planets to test new races for <whatever>. We've seen nothing to indicate XCOM wants to "enhance" humanity at large any more than they want to draft the entire planet into nanofibre vests, hand them a laser pistol and force them to invade some unsuspecting world for a lark. It's volunteering, but then it's volunteering in the "so, if you don't agree to have most of your body replaced with cybernetic parts then the aliens will exterminate humanity sense". Kinda like The Volunteer doesn't really have a choice.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:35
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Alchenar posted:Kinda like The Volunteer doesn't really have a choice. What if the game chose the Volunteer for you? You know, like... the actual soldier volunteered?
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Aug 26, 2013 19:40
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Hellburger99 posted:My only problem with the "choosing to stay pure vs. augment humans" idea is that it sounds way too much like a story-driven RPG. XCOM is a tactics game that is light on story and thus far it's "moral quandaries" have existed solely in throw-away flavor text. Maybe I'm alone, but I'd rather the "fierce challenge" just be really a tough opponent and let the players work in their own narrative about human purity. Otherwise it's going to be too story-driven, and we saw how well that worked with Slingshot. Also think about how much they'd have to change to make the game on the whole so challenging that your "all-natural" playthroughs (which is what we currently have) would be almost insurmountable without the semi-tame stat-boosts from gene modding, or help from SHIVmen.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:41
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Sick of Long War, time to restart on Classic Ironman vanilla. Think I'll go with random stats, rare psykers and 100% crit from flanking attacks, and start off in Europe to grab some fast early satellites and then I'll see where I go from there. I haven't completed a game of this since release so it'll be good fun I hope!
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Aug 26, 2013 19:41
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The most obvious and terrible thing about the mec troopers is that they'll get loving FAT because their limbs are lopped off and they'll still be eating a normal amount. Or, they'll be permanently hungry.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:48
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I'm someone who once used rookies in the original XCOM to run at the enemy with armed detpacks, suicide bomber style. The idea that I'll have compunctions about lopping limbs off my meatbags to make them more efficient killing machines is is kinda 
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Aug 26, 2013 19:54
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redreader posted:The most obvious and terrible thing about the mec troopers is that they'll get loving FAT because their limbs are lopped off and they'll still be eating a normal amount. Or, they'll be permanently hungry. Nah, they probably have a daily allotment of specially formulated food cubes they consume. Like monkey chow, for people!
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Aug 26, 2013 19:57
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Darkrenown posted:I don't get this line of thought at all. XCOM using meld in no way whatsoever makes them the same as the aliens. The Ethereals apparently enslave entire races and go around invading planets to test new races for <whatever>. We've seen nothing to indicate XCOM wants to "enhance" humanity at large any more than they want to draft the entire planet into nanofibre vests, hand them a laser pistol and force them to invade some unsuspecting world for a lark. Basically, it doesn't really matter what XCOM wants, because once it's invented and applied, the tech is gonna get out anyway, and we're almost certain to abuse it somewhere along the line. That abuse, in turn, will slowly shift our understanding of what's possible or even acceptable. It's easy to imagine that something similar happened with the Ethereals or whoever back in the day. Soup du Journey fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 26, 2013 |
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Aug 26, 2013 19:59
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Alchenar posted:It's volunteering, but then it's volunteering in the "so, if you don't agree to have most of your body replaced with cybernetic parts then the aliens will exterminate humanity sense". Volunteering for the military means accepting you may be killed or crippled. This is especially true in wartime, and double-super-especially true when the war is against highly advanced aliens. Anyone joining XCOM as a trooper must know it's almost certain they'll be killed, but they are willing to do so anyway because otherwise the aliens will exterminate humanity, so there's not really any greater pressure to be meched. Besides, I doubt they'd need to pressure anyone into doing it, there's always the hardcore that are willing to do anything to win, especially in an elite force. I would expect there'd be enough people keen to take any steps necessary to strike at the aliens that they wouldn't need to pressure anyone who wasn't keen on the idea into it. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Aug 26, 2013 |
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Aug 26, 2013 20:11
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We've had the technology to reattach human limbs since the 60s. So long as the soldiers' "discarded" bodyparts are taken off carefully and well preserved, they can probably be put back on when the war's over. The genetically modified and psychic soldiers are the ones who are changed for good.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:We've had the technology to reattach human limbs since the 60s. So long as the soldiers' "discarded" bodyparts are taken off carefully and well preserved, they can probably be put back on when the war's over. There was a mistake here. It's gone now.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:39
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Turn your gravelly wounded soldiers into mechs and claim it was necessary to save their lives.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:43
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I can imagine the 'intro sequence' for the mec technology: a trooper lifts something heavy with their robo arms+legs. Their back breaks. "we need more testing", says The Doctor.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:44
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I've always wanted to be a cyborg so I see no problem with robocopping my soldiers.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:51
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redreader posted:I can imagine the 'intro sequence' for the mec technology: a trooper lifts something heavy with their robo arms+legs. Their back breaks. "we need more testing", says The Doctor. No, this is where they rocket punch a random captive alien and Dr Vahlen collects the leftover brains while everyone else is giggling maniacally 
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Aug 26, 2013 20:52
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Icon Of Sin posted:No, this is where they rocket punch a random captive alien and Dr Vahlen collects the leftover brains while everyone else is giggling maniacally Honestly, punching a sectoid into a car so hard it explodes should give the rest of the squad a temporary Will boost.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:56
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Dear Firaxis, Please make a new hero character when you name him STERLING ARCHER. The only hero trait this character will have will be the Danger Zone perk unlocked immediately. Sure, most classes wouldn't benefit from this as they don't get rockets/suppression. I don't care, just do this please.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:57
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Catts posted:Honestly, punching a sectoid into a car so hard it explodes should give the rest of the squad a temporary Will boost. This is the best idea.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:58
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gannyGrabber posted:Psssh, you guys and your "morality". "Their. . . ethical inflexibility. . has allowed us to make progress in areas they refuse to consider!"
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Aug 26, 2013 21:28
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More news at PAX: Strategy Masterminds Mega Panel - XCOM: Enemy Within @ SATURDAY 8/31 3:30PM - 4:30PM PANELISTS: Ananda Gupta [Lead Designer], Garth DeAngelis [Senior Designer], Steve Ogden [Studio Art Director], Adam Sessler [Executive Producer] Join us for never-before-seen footage and major announcements for XCOM: Enemy Within, Firaxis Games and 2K’s upcoming expansion for the award-winning XCOM: Enemy Unknown. Moderated by Adam Sessler of Rev3 Games, this panel takes a look behind the curtain at Firaxis Games as the team discusses many of the ideas that went into the creation of this highly anticipated expansion. You won’t want to miss this panel, so be sure to come early to secure your seat! Also, from http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2013/08/xcom-enemy-within-announced.html "Because the Melds are alien tech, it is possible for them to corrupt your soldiers if you are not careful, hence the title." No idea how the author of that blog got that information, but well... more stuff to theorize about.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:08
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Aliens control mechs through their psionic implants - X-COM, in their haste to wield the same weapons, use the same implants. This may place them under passive alien control, possibly even providing a beacon pointing straight to the base.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:16
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WarpedNaba posted:Aliens control mechs through their psionic implants - X-COM, in their haste to wield the same weapons, use the same implants. This may place them under passive alien control, possibly even providing a beacon pointing straight to the base. Unless there is the choice not to use them. That might even be one of the achievements.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:25
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redreader posted:I can imagine the 'intro sequence' for the mec technology: a trooper lifts something heavy with their robo arms+legs. Their back breaks. "we need more testing", says The Doctor. I think if the conversion process to becoming an MEC trooper was like the "Stroggification" process in Quake 4 (which you get to experience first-hand), that would be kind of dark and cool. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA May be  if you're extra squeamish.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:43
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I beat the game on normal when it came out, and haven't messed with it since. All this expansion talk has got me in the mood again and I'm playing through it again on classic. I tend to like longer, drawn out games (I always play Civ V on marathon) I see the Long War mod is pretty popular here, but I really don't want to fiddle with game settings and forcing steam into offline mode and so forth. I see there are new options, and my question is how do people feel about the marathon game option?
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Aug 26, 2013 22:47
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counterfeitsaint posted:I beat the game on normal when it came out, and haven't messed with it since. All this expansion talk has got me in the mood again and I'm playing through it again on classic. I tend to like longer, drawn out games (I always play Civ V on marathon) I see the Long War mod is pretty popular here, but I really don't want to fiddle with game settings and forcing steam into offline mode and so forth. I see there are new options, and my question is how do people feel about the marathon game option? If you're like me, simply playing Classic IRONMAN will be enough to give you that feeling of a long war. But not in the most obvious sense... The game will throw you so many complicated situations to deal with that you're gonna have to take your time thinking, or else you're gonna get screwed pretty hard. Personally, I think mods and "Marathon" mode just drag the game way too much. I love playing Civ 5 on Epic and Marathon too, but for XCOM... I dunno, it doesn't feel as right, at least IMHO.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:54
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counterfeitsaint posted:I see there are new options, and my question is how do people feel about the marathon game option? It's not balanced quite right, you almost guaranteed will lose 3-5 countries in the first 4 months of the game even if you sell your first two UFO salvages, but after the rocky start it's smooth sailing that does what it says (research, facility building, soldier promotion, alien tech advancements are all about 2.5 times slower).
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Aug 26, 2013 22:58
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The Rat posted:"Their. . . ethical inflexibility. . has allowed us to make progress in areas they refuse to consider!" 
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Aug 26, 2013 23:53
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I've been playing the mobile version recently, and while it looks like fried rear end compared to the full PC version, there's actually a usability upgrade that's not on the PC version; you can see the panic levels of all the other parts of the countries abductions take place in. I hope this makes it into the PC version eventually. Edit: X-Com was the dream of good governments. Sardonik fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 26, 2013 23:57
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The Rat posted:"Their. . . ethical inflexibility. . has allowed us to make progress in areas they refuse to consider!" What's this from, Starcraft?
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Aug 26, 2013 23:57
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WarpedNaba posted:What's this from, Starcraft? Deus Ex. Specifically Bob Page.
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Aug 26, 2013 23:59
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WarpedNaba posted:What's this from, Starcraft? 
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Aug 26, 2013 23:59
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WarpedNaba posted:What's this from, Starcraft? The original Deus Ex, actually. "Mechs may have copper wiring to re-route your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel"
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Aug 27, 2013 00:00
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Count Uvula posted:It's not balanced quite right, you almost guaranteed will lose 3-5 countries in the first 4 months of the game even if you sell your first two UFO salvages, but after the rocky start it's smooth sailing that does what it says (research, facility building, soldier promotion, alien tech advancements are all about 2.5 times slower). Yeah, I had to do some .ini tweaking to get Marathon to feel right on the strategic level. Cream-of-Plenty posted:I think if the conversion process to becoming an MEC trooper was like the "Stroggification" process in Quake 4 (which you get to experience first-hand), that would be kind of dark and cool. Huh...that's actually less terrifying than what Q2 suggested. More of a Borg style process that you can live through. In 2 the Strogg just dropped people into literal meat-grinders, or crushed them with giant pistons so that they could use the left over gibs and meat goop.
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Aug 27, 2013 00:05
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Ernie Muppari posted:Huh...that's actually less terrifying than what Q2 suggested. More of a Borg style process that you can live through. In 2 the Strogg just dropped people into literal meat-grinders, or crushed them with giant pistons so that they could use the left over gibs and meat goop. They kept the meat goop around too fortunately:  I am hoping that MEC-ing can only be initiated on gravely wounded soldiers; besides constraining the potential pool, it feels just sinister enough to be narratively interesting without veering into Mengele territory.
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Aug 27, 2013 00:25
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