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Noreaus posted:There will be no UK military intervention in Syria as of yet - The house of commons has voted against the principle of military intervention, both the government's version of the motion and Labour's amended version. 285 votes against action, 272 votes for. Considering a second vote would have been needed even if this one passed that's a massive loss. Hard to see how the UK could get involved at all. What this means for the UK Cyrpus bases where most of the aircraft who would be / have been are based who knows. edit: UK Prime Minister David Cameron tells MPs: "It's clear to me that the British parliament and the British people do not wish to see military action; I get that, and I will act accordingly." ukle fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 22:35
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So.... itll just be us and the Frenchies?
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Aug 29, 2013 22:40
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A nice parody article I wrote that I think you guys might enjoy http://www.emperoroftheidiots.com/main/2013/08/29/why-we-should-not-intervene-in-the-galactic-empire-civil-war/ quote:Why We Should Not Intervene in the Galactic Empire Civil War
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Aug 29, 2013 22:42
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That's pretty good.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:43
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Saint Celestine posted:So.... itll just be us and the Frenchies? Yep. But'll we'll have the goodwill of a few other Western countries, for what that's worth. Pretty astonishing to see the UK's participation go down in flames. This has to badly damage Cameron, I would imagine.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:44
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Saint Celestine posted:So.... itll just be us and the Frenchies? Nope, most of the presidential lead western countries seem to be wanting action. Biggest issue is that the only logical bases for any action are British (Cyprus), and if they don't use them will really limit the options available, or increase massively the cost and resources needed.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:44
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Young Freud posted:Be glad that they changed those bomblets' color to high-visibility yellow for easy cleanup as well, because this is what they used to look like... That's a Vietnam-era Dragontooth cluster mine, not a bomblet. Mines are like intentional UXO.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:45
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Paul MaudDib posted:Secret underground tunnels from downtown to a military base designed to hide tractor-trailers full of chemical weapons, secret mountain tunnel complexes... I'm definitely getting an Iraq vibe from this article. Brown Moses posted:Someone was asking for videos mentioned in an article from 2012 about chemical weapons facilities? These are the videos I think These are the most accurate descriptions of the bases I have ever seen, and they caused quite a ruckus when they were first released due to the highly sensitive nature of everything in them. The guy spends quite some time explaining that he's doing it because the people need to know, it is his patriotic duty, etc...
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Aug 29, 2013 22:45
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ukle posted:Nope, most of the presidential lead western countries seem to be wanting action. Biggest issue is that the only logical bases for any action are British (Cyprus), and if they don't use them will really limit the options available, or increase massively the cost and resources needed. Canada's out, I've seen that. France still wants in, though this might change their considerations. I've yet to see too many other countries that have pledged to offer any meaningful support.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:46
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New Division posted:Yep. But'll we'll have the goodwill of a few other Western countries, for what that's worth. I'll be honest, Obama looks like he doesn't want to do anything either. So I can't exactly blame the Brits. Although, it hurts that our best friend ditched us. Apparently they didn't forget the last time we bamboozled them and stole their girlfriend.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:47
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Shadoer posted:A nice parody article I wrote that I think you guys might enjoy Not enough mentions about Wookies eating the hearts and livers of their enemies.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:52
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Yeah, but seriously, out of all the countries that could actually provide support, its just us and the French that would be going into this? The UKs out, Germany was never going to do anything, and the Italians and Spanish couldn't do anything militarily even if they wanted, right?
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Aug 29, 2013 22:56
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Saint Celestine posted:Yeah, but seriously, out of all the countries that could actually provide support, its just us and the French that would be going into this? The UKs out, Germany was never going to do anything, and the Italians and Spanish couldn't do anything militarily even if they wanted, right? p. much unfortunately. Even Turkey will likely only give token support Young Freud posted:Not enough mentions about Wookies eating the hearts and livers of their enemies. How could I not have seen that?! I'll have to put that in a follow-up article.
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Aug 29, 2013 22:59
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Getting involved in the Syrian civil war is just a little less smart than inserting your dick in a blender. As long as Al Qaeda sponsored groups are in the ranks of the rebels, any chance of international support fades away. What will happen to Christian and Muslim minorities if the rebels win? Assad kept the country together, like it or not.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:00
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Shadoer posted:p. much unfortunately. Even Turkey will likely only give token support God, everybody likes to talk a great game, but in the end they are so lame.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:00
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Saint Celestine posted:Yeah, but seriously, out of all the countries that could actually provide support, its just us and the French that would be going into this? The UKs out, Germany was never going to do anything, and the Italians and Spanish couldn't do anything militarily even if they wanted, right? I doubt they would do much. The other countries I could think of that might be able to lend token assistance are Denmark and the other Nordic countries. But make no mistake, the sight of Britain pulling back is going to cause some ripples.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:03
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Saint Celestine posted:Yeah, but seriously, out of all the countries that could actually provide support, its just us and the French that would be going into this? The UKs out, Germany was never going to do anything, and the Italians and Spanish couldn't do anything militarily even if they wanted, right? It suppose that depends on in if the Danish are fully trained up on air launched cruise missiles. They appear to be in. I have to say there it was really incredibly unpleasant hearing supposedly respectable politicians talk about how CW doesn't matter because dead is dead. What an absolutely vulgar position to call for the end of the chemical warfare conventions, because apparently they're relics of an outmoded belief that humans can be improved. Surely war is supposed to be hell and all our efforts to do anything about it should be just as rolled backed. People do realize the entire point of the first chemical warfare convention was the acknowledgment that if one side used it the other would have to as well. Unless something stops we're going to be celebrating the 100ths anniversary of WW1 with full on chemical warfare in Syria. The readings of Dulce et decorum est shall be wonderful. farraday fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 23:03
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New Division posted:I doubt they would do much. The other countries I could think of that might be able to lend token assistance are Denmark and the other Nordic countries. But make no mistake, the sight of Britain pulling back is going to cause some ripples. EDIT: Was confusing Denmark's withdrawal of foreign aid to Egypt. Norway is out though Aurubin fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 23:05
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Cippalippus posted:Getting involved in the Syrian civil war is just a little less smart than inserting your dick in a blender. The country will never reunify under Assad. Never. He cannot do more than hold onto a rump ethnic enclave on the coast. A Yugoslavia style carve up looks like it could be in the cards.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:05
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New Division posted:Canada's out, I've seen that. France still wants in, though this might change their considerations. I've yet to see too many other countries that have pledged to offer any meaningful support. Canada's not presidential lead, it has a sensible system of government. France might be forced to change as the UK and France are becoming more and more one nation militarily, they will probably be heavily reliant on the US for the missing pieces without the UK.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:05
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 http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/post/50495350134/does-this-not-outrage-youFound the motherlode of all the videos of people being brutally tortured and killed in the Syrian conflict by regime forces. Happened upon it while I was going through some BM related twitter feeds. I believe that Brown Moses you are going through these to collect evidence of war crimes? Be careful clicking on this because there's like 40 videos on this website and wow, they are gruesome.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:06
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The Danes might pull back if the Brits don't go. This could cause a chain reaction in Europe. It's not like there isn't tons of discontent with the idea of military interventions in other European countries contemplating involvement.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:07
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Sergg posted:
Various NGOs are all over this sort of stuff now, they've got a lot better at using social media to gather information on human rights violations and war crimes over the past few years. It's like the new thing to do in human rights circles.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:08
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New Division posted:The country will never reunify under Assad. Never. He cannot do more than hold onto a rump ethnic enclave on the coast. Yes, that's why I used the past tense. It's not impossible but there can be no military victory here. Peace can only arrive through negotiations, and with the USA kindly loving off to their own continent. Their help wasn't asked or needed and isn't beneficial to anyone involved, themselves included.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:10
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I'll say this much: regardless of how much money the US wastes on Team America, World Police, if and when the movie stops, Europe is going to have a very long and painful time trying to do its fair share. Like, okay, I don't really see how bombing unrelated runways and bunkers for two days is gonna do anything to stop chemical warfare any more than the No voters. But a no vote from this Tory government is a vote for isolationism, not lack of proof. If even the Tories have come to this, we're talking about Europe being almost completely powerless to project force.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:10
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What does Germany think? It seems like the US would want their greenlight. The US seems not to want this as a NATO mission - but hoping for a UN mandate. The UK still did condemn the attack, right? Even if it isn't committing forces. Hoping to avoid making this a NATO/Russia confrontation
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Aug 29, 2013 23:11
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Nice thread title change.  Germany will do what it always does. Give a lukewarm, waffling statement and ignore the situation. They certainly won't prevent the US from using its facilities over there but they're not going to do anything for us.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:12
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New Division posted:The country will never reunify under Assad. Never. He cannot do more than hold onto a rump ethnic enclave on the coast. I'm not really sure how well Syria can support state-lets. If Assad gets his own coastal dictatorship, the Sunnis get left with the leeward side of the Anti-Lebanons and the Syrian Desert. PrinceRandom fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 23:15
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McDowell posted:What does Germany think? It seems like the US would want their greenlight. Good loving luck getting a UN Mandate. Everyone can condemn all they want. Its looking more and more like the US acting by itself, with some French support no less. That doesn't bode well for Syria. Might as well not act, and just save the money. In the end, the results the same.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:15
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Cippalippus posted:Their help wasn't asked or needed and isn't beneficial to anyone involved, themselves included. Actually a lot of Syrians have wanted a no fly zone or at least strikes on the military assets of the SNA for awhile now. But since you only just started posting in this thread like 3 days ago I'm not surprised you're largely ignorant of what has actually happened over there. At least you can fill it up with your own beliefs. Same thing right. Also fairly sure Assad's forces were the ones to break the "ceasefires" in the last two rounds of peace talks.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:16
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Saint Celestine posted:Yeah, but seriously, out of all the countries that could actually provide support, its just us and the French that would be going into this? The UKs out, Germany was never going to do anything, and the Italians and Spanish couldn't do anything militarily even if they wanted, right? Don't the Italians have two small carriers? They gotta be useful for something. Then again with the Italian government perpetually on the edge of collapse, they probably won't do anything.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:18
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Cippalippus posted:Yes, that's why I used the past tense. It's not impossible but there can be no military victory here. Peace can only arrive through negotiations, and with the USA kindly loving off to their own continent. Their help wasn't asked or needed and isn't beneficial to anyone involved, themselves included. -Who's going to negotiate with whom in Syria, especially after a confirmed gas attack? -Make no mistake: the US is very likely spend a weekend doing not very much and duly gently caress off as requested. If Assad isn't crippled right then, what happens over the next year? -Okay, this half-assed intervention might well be the wrong thing to do here. What's the right thing to do for First World outsiders? If the answer is to stay out regardless, does that square with everyone else on the planet happily giving arms to both sides indefinitely? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm just trying to figure out the threshold for intervention here.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:18
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New Division posted:The country will never reunify under Assad. Never. He cannot do more than hold onto a rump ethnic enclave on the coast. Implausible. Any carving up of Syria would weaken the central authority of the remaining states and whichever one landed the Kurdish regions would either be Kurdish controlled or unable to prevent defacto independent government in the area. Either outcome would be completely unacceptable to Turkey in the current climate.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:20
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New Division posted:A Yugoslavia style carve up looks like it could be in the cards. You know who profits from that? Rand McNally. Imagine all the globes and maps that would need to be purchased. It's obvious this was a false flag attack by war-profiteering map makers.  Cippalippus posted:Yes, that's why I used the past tense. It's not impossible but there can be no military victory here. Peace can only arrive through negotiations, and with the USA kindly loving off to their own continent. Their help wasn't asked or needed and isn't beneficial to anyone involved, themselves included. I agree; I haven't seen much of a convincing argument that the U.S. should get involved, and none of the options seem to have foreseeable positive implications. I understand why we might get involved, what with the Red Line stuff and various justifications for dissuading chemical weapons usage, but I'm not certain those are good reasons for trying to force ourselves into the situation beyond humanitarian aid issues that weren't already existent when Assad was just outright killing people with conventional weaponry.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:21
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Amused to Death posted:Don't the Italians have two small carriers? They gotta be useful for something. Then again with the Italian government perpetually on the edge of collapse, they probably won't do anything. Italy loves Assad, they don't oppose action, they legit support Assad's regime.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:23
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What I want to know is will they also propose what the plan is after the "World" slaps Syria on the wrist. Do we bomb a few targets and call it a day? Do we ask that both sides nicely give up their WMDs? Do we blame someone? Do we instigate a proxy war?
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Aug 29, 2013 23:23
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AllanGordon posted:Actually a lot of Syrians have wanted a no fly zone or at least strikes on the military assets of the SNA for awhile now. drat, you got me. This is the only place in the Internet to discuss about Syria. Assad used chemical weapons? Maybe. Broke cease fire several time? Sure. Now tell me with what kind of loving right do Americans think that they're better than this. Guantanamo, death penalty, torture, war crimes, international bullshit to start wars... Hey, allow me the benefit of doubt if I think that you aren't God's most precious warriors.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:23
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Cracker King posted:Do we instigate a proxy war? Cause that's not already happening...
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Aug 29, 2013 23:24
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Sergg posted:
But remember guys, anything the West does will be worse than this! [/Ardennes]
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Aug 29, 2013 23:24
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Cippalippus posted:drat, you got me. This is the only place in the Internet to discuss about Syria. Hey sorry dude choking painfully to death we got Gitmo so we don't have the ~ethical right~ to take actions here according to some keyboard revolutionaries.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:25
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