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Anyway you hack the numbers from whatever site you use (there are a few) the multi-role classes dominate the top half of the charts while the single role classes wallow in the bottom half. The anomalies are Hunters being number one (I still think that's due to the Pokemon factor) and shamans being on the bottom (That one I can't explain).
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Sep 22, 2013 01:16
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Korlac posted:Anyway you hack the numbers from whatever site you use (there are a few) the multi-role classes dominate the top half of the charts while the single role classes wallow in the bottom half. The anomalies are Hunters being number one (I still think that's due to the Pokemon factor) and shamans being on the bottom (That one I can't explain). Monks are also at the bottom, and they have Tank/DPS/Heals try again.
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Sep 22, 2013 01:41
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According to those charts, Druid is also one of the most played classes, and it's a class that can take all three roles. I have no idea why you're dead-set against his suggestion that hybrid classes are more popular, people like it when they're not locked into the role that often boils down to playing keyboard piano until whatever you're attacking is dead.
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Sep 22, 2013 02:06
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miscellaneous14 posted:According to those charts, Druid is also one of the most played classes, and it's a class that can take all three roles. I have no idea why you're dead-set against his suggestion that hybrid classes are more popular, people like it when they're not locked into the role that often boils down to playing keyboard piano until whatever you're attacking is dead. And yet two hybrids are also the lowest played, by a wide margin. People play the better designed classes, hybrid or not.
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Sep 22, 2013 03:42
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Of course Monks are at the bottom that class was only released a year ago.
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Sep 22, 2013 03:59
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Equilibrium posted:Of course Monks are at the bottom that class was only released a year ago. Deathknights did not have this problem, and they only do 2 roles, nor did Paladins when they were given to Horde, nor Shaman to Alliance.
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Sep 22, 2013 04:25
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wraith_5_ posted:People play the better designed classes, hybrid or not. So why have Hunters and Paladins consistently been the most played classes?
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Sep 22, 2013 05:20
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Pawl posted:So why have Hunters and Paladins consistently been the most played classes? People really enjoy their playstyle. Even with all the changes Hunters stayed extremely similar all through up to MoP. Mists gave them a bunch of CDs to juggle, but the core playstyle is still basically the same. I've only played a paladin a little, so I really cant comment on their changes, although I know they've come a long way since Molten Core whispercast 5 minute buff bots. My only point is that its overly simplistic to say "people prefer hybrids everytime" when the numbers clearly show that is not the case. You might have a bit of an argument when you say "people prefer hybrids when all classes are designed well and equally" but numbers dont really support that either.
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Sep 22, 2013 05:45
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wraith_5_ posted:Deathknights did not have this problem, and they only do 2 roles, nor did Paladins when they were given to Horde, nor Shaman to Alliance. You're arguing a 1-90 barrier to entry for endgame vs. Deathknight with 35 levels from roll to raiding and 2 more years of availability. Paladins and Shaman have a further ~2 years for those rolled new faction, and availability going back to release for the original factions. Not even to mention the plateau and rush that happens at every new expansion transition. Grinding out 5 levels of content after being one level for over a year is definitely less of a hurdle. He really does have a point about the pure DPS classes being handled poorly. Having to support multiple roles while limited to 3 talent trees makes you focus and tune those trees better, and pack them with more interesting talents. The pure DPS classes had 3 trees to do one thing, and for most of WoW's existence, you got one good tree, or you got your PvE tree, and your PvP tree. At release every class had a poo poo tree. As WoW progressed, the hybrids had their poo poo trees whipped into shape. They had a deliberate purpose, and they were designed to be viable main specs(Shamans not so much. At least as late as WotLK). The DPS classes got some shuffling. Maybe one of their trees got better. Maybe two of their trees were close to equally good at stuff. poo poo trees remained. They were only useful for shallow synergy talents, or as idiot alarms. Oh this Hunter is deep into Survival? Well let's give him a helmet, and drag him through this instance. Oh look at him melee the boss! Adorable! Warlocks actually got 3 distinct and focused trees as early as BC, but gently caress Warlocks. As interesting as some concepts in these trees could be, they were relegated to gimmick specs, and mostly ignored. The Subtlety tree is a prime example. Rift has the same problem. As cool as some soul concepts are, they just aren't competitive as primaries. Some souls are just taken as tertiaries for their starting abilities. That kind of slush in available specs is a detriment to a class. The illusion of choice it gives a new player is quickly exposed, and those extraneous talents become negatives. They're space junk. They're noise in your signal. If you want different specialization avenues for classes in an MMO, you had better make them distinct from one another, and comparable in usefulness. Whether that's multiple group roles, or it's different ways of doing the same role, matters less than them being viable in high level content.
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Sep 22, 2013 06:46
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wraith_5_ posted:Monks are also at the bottom, and they have Tank/DPS/Heals try again. Don't be an idiot. Monks are at the bottom because they're still a new class and don't have the history of play the other classes have.
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Sep 22, 2013 08:37
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wraith_5_ posted:People really enjoy their playstyle. Even with all the changes Hunters stayed extremely similar all through up to MoP. Mists gave them a bunch of CDs to juggle, but the core playstyle is still basically the same. I've only played a paladin a little, so I really cant comment on their changes, although I know they've come a long way since Molten Core whispercast 5 minute buff bots. Hunters and Paladins have had complete overhauls in literally every single expansion; neither class plays anything like they did in classic, TBC, WOTLK, or even Cataclysm. I agree with your point that people don't care about playing hybrids but I think people just play whatever "fantasy" of a class they enjoy the most and it has absolutely nothing to do with mechanics. People like using guns and bows so they play Hunters, and people like being knights in shining armor so they play Paladins.
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Sep 22, 2013 08:38
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My friend tells me that Wildstar combat operates off the patented Neverwinter Fake Aim System™ where you basically lock on to targets via mouse over rather than just click on them so that people feel like they're "aiming" when they actually aren't at all. Please tell me this is not the case??
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Sep 22, 2013 08:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQLsE02OPg
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Sep 22, 2013 08:56
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Oh I saw this video months ago but totally forgot it. Well that solves that.
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Sep 22, 2013 09:49
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Korlac posted:Don't be an idiot. Monks are at the bottom because they're still a new class and don't have the history of play the other classes have. Yea, those whole 2 days to level from 1 to MOP is really a barrier. Shaman/Paladins had a MUCH bigger barrier and didnt have that issue, and DKs had a roughly similar one, and again didnt have the issue. Monks are a neat class, but require a LOT of attentiveness to be effective. Whereas even really bad players of other classes can hit 75%+ off effectiveness. Nowhere is this felt as hard as bad monk tanks who absolutely melt even with good gear.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:02
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wraith_5_ posted:Yea, those whole 2 days to level from 1 to MOP is really a barrier. You're right, 9 years of availability versus 1 doesn't count for anything, what the hell was I thinking.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:55
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A lot of people don't inject Monster Energy Drink™ (Fuel For Gamers™) straight into their veins and go on 2 day leveling marathons just so their alts have some degree of parity with their main. Even with all the advancements in the leveling path that Cataclysm introduced, and even with the drastically improved leveling speed, getting a new character from 1-90 is excruciatingly boring for me. In any case, I don't know why the notion that MMOs should have more hybrid classes is even a controversial one. It's awful spending as much time getting to endgame as it takes, then realizing you're pretty much stuck waiting out long DPS queues for LFGs.
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Sep 22, 2013 11:11
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You guys are arguing over a chart that doesn't take into account time spent playing, or level. i.e., the data used to generate that chart covers a shitload of alts and bank mules. This would give you a slightly more accurate view, although even that's fairly inaccurate due to usage of the WoWCensus addon being much less common than it used to be. Even with the more limited data set, it's still not showing enough variance in numbers to really have any cause for concern, and neither is the originally linked chart. Beyond that: popularity of hybrids depends entirely on how hybridization is handled. WoW, for instance, has basically made hybrids every bit as good as a pure class in a given role, which makes it not really a hybrid anymore. As a result, people don't treat them like hybrids - they treat them either as a different flavor of <insert class here> and largely ignore the other capabilities of the class, or they treat it as multiple characters who happen to have the same name and physical appearance. The whole point of a hybrid is being able to fill multiple roles simultaneously at a lower capacity than a pure class can for just one of the roles - that hasn't been true for WoW "hybrids" for a long time. And that's the problem with the hybrid concept. If you design content to be viable when running with true hybrids in your group, that almost always means that a group composed of pure classes is going to clear the content more rapidly and effectively. The only time that's not true is when you design encounters to require more capacity for multiple roles than can be handled with just pure classes, which leads to its own set of problems. And all of THAT ties back to the problems inherent in vertical progression and trinity mechanics.
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Sep 23, 2013 01:44
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THE PWNER posted:My friend tells me that Wildstar combat operates off the patented Neverwinter Fake Aim System™ where you basically lock on to targets via mouse over rather than just click on them so that people feel like they're "aiming" when they actually aren't at all. Please tell me this is not the case?? I think the system seems to work pretty well but unless they lower mob HP the game is going to be the worst slog you've ever imagined. Imagine at level 9 you are swinging at an enemy for 2 minutes, and probably dying if you get an add because they take so long to kill.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:32
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If you are too casual to appreciate the challenge of mashing 1 for two minutes to kill a newbie mob, maybe Wildstar isn't the game for you. Furthermore, /wildstarbetaforum 
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Sep 24, 2013 03:53
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Meowbot posted:I think the system seems to work pretty well but unless they lower mob HP the game is going to be the worst slog you've ever imagined. Well at least if they actually balance it properly it looks pretty drat cool. Kind of like Tera minus animation locks.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:53
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Medic and Engineer confirmed as the last two classes. Now I just need my betainvite... 
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Sep 24, 2013 13:11
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Uhrm posted:Medic and Engineer confirmed as the last two classes. Now I just need my betainvite... Where is this mystical confirmation? VV Cool BadLlama fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 17:07
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 From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bZZDUthjiw
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Sep 24, 2013 17:16
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So that's a weird way to get our first official mention of the last two classes. We have 3 months left in the year, and two classes that haven't even been in the wilds of beta for balancing. Are we looking at another rocky, not quite finished start to an MMO that just has to release in time for the holidays? [EDIT] Last I heard was that they were shooting for the holidays. I missed the part about it slipping to Spring.(Kinda surprised about it, either way.) If we're looking at 6 months to release instead of 2, then it gives me quite a bit more hope for the release, and more time to get sick of TERA. Clitch fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 19:29
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Clitch posted:Are we looking at another rocky, not quite finished start to an MMO that just has to release in time for the holidays? They announced a few weeks back that they were pushing release into spring-ish 2014, it's a few pages back in the thread somewhere. So hopefully this means the game isn't a wreck at launch.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:32
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Clitch posted:Are we looking at another rocky, not quite finished start to an MMO that just has to release in time for the holidays? The game was pushed back to the beginning of next year so I don't know where this rushed for the holidays thing is coming from?
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Sep 24, 2013 19:33
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THE PWNER posted:Well at least if they actually balance it properly it looks pretty drat cool. Kind of like Tera minus animation locks. The difference is Tera's combat actually felt fluid and engaging. Wildstar combat felt very boring when I tried it, hitting a newbie mob for 1 minute is barely an exaggeration sadly. Seems like they have some cool ideas, but man the combat turned me off real quick. Maybe it's the type you need to play more before it opens up, I'm hoping that's the case!
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Sep 24, 2013 20:54
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Opinionated posted:The difference is Tera's combat actually felt fluid and engaging. Wildstar combat felt very boring when I tried it, hitting a newbie mob for 1 minute is barely an exaggeration sadly. Seems like they have some cool ideas, but man the combat turned me off real quick. I think it's one of the very few cases where it's actually a solvable problem. The animation work is so good that they just need to tweak numbers and the combat will feel great.
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Sep 24, 2013 21:40
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Phoix posted:I think it's one of the very few cases where it's actually a solvable problem. The animation work is so good that they just need to tweak numbers and the combat will feel great. Shutting the beta down for a while was a gutsy move. I can't remember a dev team doing that, except for WAR. Hopefully it turns out better than that. They should emulate TOR's multiple test groups too so new testers are not infected by the crazy people with literally thousands of posts that poo poo up every thread.
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Sep 24, 2013 23:19
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Opinionated posted:The difference is Tera's combat actually felt fluid and engaging. Wildstar combat felt very boring when I tried it, hitting a newbie mob for 1 minute is barely an exaggeration sadly. Seems like they have some cool ideas, but man the combat turned me off real quick. Well, I did say if they balance it properly. It just sounds like it's poorly balanced right now. "Monster has too much hp" is easy enough to fix. Can anyone who's been in the beta comment on where the servers might be? Break you'ree NDA... play with fire... THE PWNER fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 23:27
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grrarg posted:They should emulate TOR's multiple test groups too so new testers are not infected by the crazy people with literally thousands of posts that poo poo up every thread. This did absolutely zero good. I was in a private test group (Revanites for about a year or more) and the amount of interaction we got was near zero. All it did was give about 25 of us a private set of forums to post in.
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Sep 25, 2013 14:25
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New Devspeak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bVQndhJHUA If you're not jizzin' in your jorts over this game you are dead wrong.
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Sep 26, 2013 15:27
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Carbon Deity posted:New Devspeak: Welp, sounds like they've found some great ways to make the neverwinter style limited ability loadout not boring.
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Sep 26, 2013 15:37
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Carbon Deity posted:New Devspeak: Who said we were wearing any pants? 
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Sep 26, 2013 15:40
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I'm so glad they've confirmed the whole "Moving while casting" thing. Now I want a confirmation on /stopcast in macros.
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Sep 26, 2013 15:47
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Uhrm posted:I'm so glad they've confirmed the whole "Moving while casting" thing. Now I want a confirmation on /stopcast in macros. Sorry at work so I can't watch the video. Did they have any details on the move while casting? Like will you simply be able to do it at all times (GW2) or is there a downside like making your cast take 25% longer, some abilities can't do it etc.
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Sep 26, 2013 16:18
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BadLlama posted:Sorry at work so I can't watch the video. Did they have any details on the move while casting? Like will you simply be able to do it at all times (GW2) or is there a downside like making your cast take 25% longer, some abilities can't do it etc. They didn't mention anything like that. They mentioned some other mechanics though, like charging up spells to do more damage with the option of releasing them early. I hope jumping serves no purpose in this game so that I just bind spacebar to stopcast, since it's so habitual to jump to stop casting at this point.
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Sep 26, 2013 16:20
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BadLlama posted:Sorry at work so I can't watch the video. Did they have any details on the move while casting? Like will you simply be able to do it at all times (GW2) or is there a downside like making your cast take 25% longer, some abilities can't do it etc. They said the vast majority of skills will allow you to be mobile. So closer to GW2 most likely. Also you can't move while casting in GW2 "at all times" since there are a number of skills that plant you in place and a ton of skills with a built in movement component to them.
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Sep 26, 2013 16:55
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Did anyone read the Wildstar Wednesday article about Shiphand missions? http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_all_hands_on_deck_for_shiphand_missions.php It sounds like they're really trying to develop content to let you futz around with your friends regardless of group size or party makeup. If the rewards for these are even halfway decent I could see spending a lot of time in these with Goons for some space based hilarity.
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Sep 26, 2013 17:28
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