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As an EU3 player who doesn't have 4 yet, what are trade routes and why should we care?
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Oct 7, 2013 19:45
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Vander posted:As an EU3 player who doesn't have 4 yet, what are trade routes and why should we care? Well, you get next to no tax or production income on distant overseas provinces (something that leads people to underestimate playing a colonial game in Africa...a lot of those provinces are actually pretty good but a European player will never see the benefits of it while a colonial Songhai can reap in the dough of ruling Africa directly because Africa is NOT distant overseas when ruled from Timbuktu). Most of the income from distant overseas provinces comes in from its trade income. Unlike in EU3, where there are a series of static COTs where you can place merchants, in EU4, the trade income can either move or not move along a series of routes. You want to get as much income as possible flowing to your trade node (and as little as possible flowing from your tradenode to points further downstream). If you get colonies that are downstream of you, you'll never see any trade income from them whatsoever and because they're distant overseas you'll never see any production or tax income either so they're effectively useless. The good thing about playing in West Africa if you know what you're doing is that the entirety of Asia is upstream from you so a skilled Africa player can get the Riches Of The Orient™ flowing into Timbuktu. As mentioned before, though, the only part of the Americas that's upstream from us would be Brazil (which can either go Brazil->Ivory Coast or Brazil->Caribbean). If we owned Brazil we could shunt its trade away from the Caribbean and towards Ivory Coast, where it would snowball with the trade goods from Ivory Coast and hopefully head Ivory Coast->Timbuktu...but trolling North Africans and Europeans could try to divert it to Ivory Coast->Mauretanian Coast->Safi or Sevilla (and then, IIRC, either Safi->Venice or Sevilla->Bordeaux->Antwerp). We'd also laugh off attempts by the Barbary states to try to pump things on the Timbuktu->Tunis line. EDIT: To clarify, I'm saying that New World colonies outside of Brazil are pretty much guaranteed to be unprofitable for us...but profit isn't the only reason why people engaged in colonial ventures. Don't let what I said dissuade you if you're really set on Ghanan Mexico or something. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 20:00
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lenoon posted:They were pretty inefficient at mass cargo, so the majority was low bulk, high yield. Seeds though, seeds do the same thing - crazy high yield, when planted.... Ok, if the traded wheat was only for planting, then it makes sense. So, if we want to colonize Caribbean and North America, we need to first conquer Iberia. Sounds like a plan  .
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Oct 7, 2013 20:12
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Hogge Wild posted:Ok, if the traded wheat was only for planting, then it makes sense. I think Tangiers in in the servilia node so we can stay african
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Oct 7, 2013 20:23
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Oh I found a true size of Africa picture - imagine the historical max of the empire of Mali as the majority of the USA: Edit: yeah it's fairly selective for obvious reasons, but it's not supposed to be 'Africa is the biggest place in the whole world' just that Africa is insanely huge, and African empires are pretty mind blowing despite usually vanishing from the historic radar. lenoon fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 20:23
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That map's kind of unfair because it doesn't include Alaska in with the USA, which increases USA's landmass by a very large amount. Still, point taken.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:33
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Leperflesh posted:
While geographic factors may have contributed, the main reason for the greater genetic diversity of African populations is that humans evolved there. When humans migrated out of Africa to Asia and Europe, only a small part of the overall genetic diversity was represented in the migrating populations. This population bottleneck resulted in the reduced genetic diversity in the populations outside of Africa. Maybe by way of compensation, the proto-Europeans and Asians then got it on with the indigenous archaic hominids which is why all modern Eurasians have 1-4% of Neanderthal DNA in their genomes. 
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Oct 7, 2013 21:19
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Head on over to the anthropology thread - we had a big discussion about it not so long ago.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:30
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lenoon posted:Head on over to the anthropology thread - we had a big discussion about it not so long ago. Got a link? I don't even know what subforum to look in.
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Oct 7, 2013 22:12
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Mind timging that image? It's breaking my tables something fierce, interesting though it may be.
Blogkb - because you too like video games, old and new (it's just a blog)
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Oct 7, 2013 22:16
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Dwarsen posted:Mind timging that image? It's breaking my tables something fierce, interesting though it may be. Africa is too huge to be timg'd!
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Oct 7, 2013 22:40
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Oh sorry I was posting from my phone, is that better?
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Oct 7, 2013 23:32
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Thanks for the history, Lenoon. That's why I love games centered on areas I'm not particularly familiar. Get enough goons together, and someone will know something about pretty much anything 
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Oct 7, 2013 23:43
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lenoon posted:Oh sorry I was posting from my phone, is that better? Much better, thanks. And also thank you for all that interesting information.
Blogkb - because you too like video games, old and new (it's just a blog)
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Oct 7, 2013 23:46
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Patter Song posted:Don't let what I said dissuade you if you're really set on Ghanan Mexico or something. Well I wasn't before, but I think you just gave us a new long term goal...
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Oct 8, 2013 02:54
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Thanks for the brilliant history post and map!
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Oct 8, 2013 03:40
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This is so awesome. I'm glad that Grey is going with Ghana. Should make for fantastic alt history.
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Oct 8, 2013 03:53
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 A year passes quietly, before a suspicious accident takes the life of Bankanu the Grand Vizier. It seems even Grand Vizier's have to watch their backs. Especially when they have been sent to fabricate claims on neighbouring territories.  Dongu orders the construction of a Militia training ground, which will increase the number of troops in the capital by a quarter.  He also secures the betrothal of his son to the only child of the chief of Bolgatanga. This is a long term plan, but could bring the province under his control.   Dongu is not only expanding the kingdom through peaceful means, he wants a link to the coast and Ziguincha is the key! War is declared. Dongu decides that he shall only use his own troops in this war, so as not to antagonize his vassals.  The two armies avoid one another, and begin besieging each others lands.   The war continues, and Djenly gives birth the a third child.   A final battle ends the war and gives Dongu a victory.  Dongu then respects his new subjects wishes and makes him marshal – he was able to take some of Ghana despite being outnumbered, and skill should be rewarded in Dongu's book.   Dongu is blessed with a second son.   Gao swallows Bolgatanga, and it the only real threat to Ghana in the region.  Meanwhile, Dongu decides he shall educate Kabayo himself.  He is an unruly child, and Dongu's attempts to beat some patiences into him does not work.  The Mansa's eyes were not always in the right place it seems, and there is a well known affair between him and one of his courtiers.  It is said that Djenly was also not as committed to the relationship as she may have been.   The Mansa's bastard child is born.  Dongu was not the kind of man to admit that Aoua was his child, even if it did fulfil a personal ambition of his!  this was also the time that Gao decided that the two large nations needed to sort out who was the greatest – Ghana was fast moving to marginalize the central African country, trapping her between deserts with no hope of expansion.  Dongu mobilized all of his forces. 3,200 men to Gao's 2,800. He also receives news that the Sultana has given birth to a child.  The two forces clash, Gao must have purchased some mercenaries, as they have more troops that the reports said. Overall, it is said that Ghana had the better commanders.  The battle does not go their way however, and Dongu flees the field to his castle! The man seems to have hidden his cowardly side for this long, but during this pivotal battle, he broke down and revealed his craveness.  This of course leads to collapse and retreat for the Ghanan forces.  This act of cowardice has a marked effect on Kabayo.  Meanwhile, on the battlefield, the Gaon forces hunt down Dongu's men, defeating them in battle after battle. With no money for the hiring of mercenaries himself, Dongu can only watch from behind the curtains in his castle. Trying to shore up the relationship with his vassals, Dongu sends his daughter to be educated by one of his richer lords.   Djenly sees no reason not to cheat on her husband – what is he going to do? Confront her about it?  Dongu raises a new force in the capital, but the Gaon's march in and defeat it, killing Marshal Fatta. This does however give Dongu the rights to his late marshal's lands.  This cannot prevent the loss of the battle and the loss of Soumpi though. The first Ghanan-Gaon war is over, and it was not a victory to Ghana.  Nine year old Kabayo was heard to state that he would not make the mistakes of his father, and would retake the lost land as soon as possible.  The second of the suspect children was born soon after.   Dongu's vassals scheme amongst themselves.   Djenly continues to be all but blatant about her affairs.  Dongu reacts as any man would, but going off and conquering some of his neighbours lands. Well, sending some of his men to conquer some of his neighbours lands.  He also decides that he does not love his cheating thrice-bastard bearing wife any more.  He does react badly to others professing their love. Mabali and Youma end up in Dongu's dungeons for eloping.  His troops meanwhile begin their conquests.   Djenly gives birth once more.  Takhye surrenders, but Birama of Takrur has declared that he should be the rightful ruler of Baol.  The first battle in this new war goes against Ghana, and the Takruri's overwhem the Ghanan army.  A new army is raised, but when looking for a new commander, is seems that the third best general in the realm is Dongu! This scares the Mansa, and he immediately spends some money on hiring a new marshal.  Duru Kayes takes command of the left flank of the army, and Dongu returns to his castle.  This appointment turns the war around for the Ghanans   As the men begin to besiege Takruri territory, Djenly pops out another bastard. (four so far for those of you counting)  Although they cannot win the war, Takruri troops can still make it costly. They rip down the castle fortifications with less than a hundred men.  Zakoi may not be his natural son, but as far as the world is concerned he is. This does allow him to be used to improve relations with iterate lords.  Kabyao mean while takes after his father in some ways.   Finally Birama accepts defeat, and Ghana has expanded once more. Dongu uses the funds from the surrender to fund some stables in Doumbi-Saleh Dejenly also falls pregnant again, Dongu is fairly sure this one is his.  This child, a girl known as Bintou, is born nine months later.  Despite expanding the country to nearly three times its original size, his cowardice and inability to control a most promiscuous wife gains Dongu the epitaph history now remembers him by.  In fact, many say his achievements were more a matter of putting the right man in the right place.  Soon Kabyo comes of age. He is as good at intrigue as his father, but a far better soldier. He is fairly lacking in the diplomatic arts however, being a Wrothful, shy, Cynical, proud and lustful young man.  He will be the future of Mansa of Ghana, for better or for worse. Before I leave you, here is the beginnings of the Ogoona family tree. I have marked in red the “suspect” children for your entertainment. 
Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 17:59
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A thousand years of cuckolding - a Paradox mega-campaign
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Oct 8, 2013 18:13
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Gao. It's called Gao. Goa is in India.
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Oct 8, 2013 18:14
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Is there any in game way to verify that they aren't your kids, or is it just a matter of "well, I guess they're 'yours' and there's nothing you can do about it"?
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Oct 8, 2013 18:17
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Teddybear posted:Is there any in game way to verify that they aren't your kids, or is it just a matter of "well, I guess they're 'yours' and there's nothing you can do about it"?  Welcome Dongu's new court grand vizier, from the far flung reaches of deepest darkest Chelsea Weavered fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 18:47
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Teddybear posted:Is there any in game way to verify that they aren't your kids, or is it just a matter of "well, I guess they're 'yours' and there's nothing you can do about it"?  They're so far down the line of succession it doesn't really matter. That is until they start murdering all of your legitimate children. 
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Oct 8, 2013 19:13
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It pulses with the romantic poetic passion of GH's infidelious wife.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:19
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uPen posted:
I believe we are stuck with Gavelkind until we reform our faith, so our realm will be fragmented between them once Dongu dies. Which we might as well ride, 600 years is a lot of CK2 and we'll need plenty of domestic disputes to keep things interesting.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:22
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ZearothK posted:I believe we are stuck with Gavelkind until we reform our faith, so our realm will be fragmented between them once Dongu dies. Which we might as well ride, 600 years is a lot of CK2 and we'll need plenty of domestic disputes to keep things interesting. We are stuck with Gavelkind, but because we only have one king level title the other kids will still be in the realm as vassals. Which may cause even more domestic issues, actually.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:34
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Clearly we should murder all our male children, because a cabal of squabbling African queens sounds like a fun 100 years ahead.
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Oct 8, 2013 19:51
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That's a mighty adventurous wife there.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:39
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The one Dongu stopped loving was his mistress, not his wife. Not that high on the :gh: scale but not keeping names straight bodes well for CK2.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:40
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Voting to legitimize every bastard through the whole LP.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:44
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Patter Song posted:I think it's cool that this time we get a CK2 LP from the earliest bookmark, but perhaps the next person to do one should pick a later CK2 bookmark for variety...same with EU4, for that matter. That said, for a megacampaign, Wiz started off Azeri in 1187. CK2 has 1204, 1220, and 1241 bookmarks that all offer over 200 years of CK2 while starting from a late enough point that certain things are already set in stone (Plantagenet ascendancy in England and Angevin Empire concerns for France, sack of Constantinople by Fourth Crusade and considerable Turkish presence in Anatolia, Hohenstaufen fusion of the Sicilian and Imperial crowns and the conflict between the Papacy and the Hohenstaufens that would tear central Europe apart through the 13th century). Just saying. Even the 1081 bookmark would be interesting because it's basically 1066 world except post-Manzikert with Turkish domination of Anatolia (which seems to very rarely happen properly in CK2). There are also lots more bookmarks added to CK2+ now.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:45
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I'm mostly impressed with her fertility. That's a whole clown car's worth of kids, and you get prestige for each one of them right? Fertilizing your way to the top, way to go :GH:.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:47
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Xenocides posted:Voting to legitimize every bastard through the whole LP. Bastards all get claims on their parent's titles, don't they? Banish them all. It'll make things interesting, at least.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:51
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They are not true bastards. They are from some lover, but Dongu does not know who, so as far as the game is concerned, they are his kids for titles, but not for genetics. it may be that events fire that reveal them, or they may live out their lives as legitimate children.
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Oct 8, 2013 20:58
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Is it a named courtier that the Queen is sleeping with or an automatically generated background character that doesn't actually exist outside the event?
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Oct 8, 2013 21:41
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Asehujiko posted:Is it a named courtier that the Queen is sleeping with or an automatically generated background character that doesn't actually exist outside the event? Now that it's happened like 4 times it's definitely a courtier. There's an event where it's some random servant who doesn't actually exist in the game that'll give you bastards but I think typically you get bastards when someone's Lover is a different person from their Spouse. You actually might be able to see who it is if you go to her page, I don't know.
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Oct 8, 2013 21:46
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Teddybear posted:Is there any in game way to verify that they aren't your kids, or is it just a matter of "well, I guess they're 'yours' and there's nothing you can do about it"? There is a Console Command that can get you that information, though it's "cheating". (Her Character Page might also display a Lover) Arkanterian fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 22:11
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Grey Hunter posted:They are not true bastards. They are from some lover, but Dongu does not know who, so as far as the game is concerned, they are his kids for titles, but not for genetics. it may be that events fire that reveal them, or they may live out their lives as legitimate children. That's hilarious and awesome. The fate of the world forever altered in the 870's by Dongu's Bastards.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:49
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Man. Do Norse not have affairs or something? I've had a Norse campaign going from the earliest start date to nearly 1200 and neither myself nor any of my spouses have had any affairs.* *(Although, I think the "My spouse is pregnant but was away, wasn't I?" event is a CK2+ thing.)
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Oct 8, 2013 22:54
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Willie Tomg posted:That's hilarious and awesome. Sent on a dangerous mission behind Gaoan front lines to wreak havoc and take the head of the ruler of Gao, Dongu's Basterds are known for their savagery. Scouts, hunting parties, whole war patrols are found scalped and beaten to death. In most cases, they appear to have been beaten with a wooden pole, and beaten long after they have already succumbed.
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Oct 8, 2013 22:59
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