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Propaganda Machine posted:Finally, Azor Ahai is very obviously Hodor. QED. Surely you mean "HHH"?
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Oct 23, 2013 20:28
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rypakal posted:You're speaking of details, which are valid. I'm speaking of George's crippling inability to deal with endings. Each of the first three books had thematic endings for many of the characters. Sure the story carried forward but there are thematic stopping points that made sense. Books 4 and 5 might as well be a soap opera. If we're to totally ignore his body of work pre-ASOIAF, then yeah, please don't trust him with endings. But if we actually consider those books and short stories he has written, then yes, he can do endings.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:08
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Azure_Horizon posted:If we're to totally ignore his body of work pre-ASOIAF, then yeah, please don't trust him with endings. But if we actually consider those books and short stories he has written, then yes, he can do endings. Uh, did you miss the part where I said he could do endings already in aSoIaF? I don't trust him NOW with endings. I'd be perfectly find with a neverending series. I think the style and the story would lend itself fine to just a concept. But each book needs some kind of frame around it or it just becomes a bog.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:18
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I just realized the irony that both Ned and Jon were both killed for not following a Baratheon's suggestion.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:05
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Anyone got any guesses about the symbolism of a direwolf being killed by a stag at the beginning of the seriess? Joffrey's not really a Baratheon and that's the only applicable situation I can think of.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:06
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TOOT BOOT posted:Anyone got any guesses about the symbolism of a direwolf being killed by a stag at the beginning of the seriess? The stag also dies. Ned following Robert to King's Landing is what gets them both killed.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:09
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Also when the wolf parent dies all of its children scatter. Also one of them was separate to start.
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Oct 24, 2013 01:30
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TOOT BOOT posted:Anyone got any guesses about the symbolism of a direwolf being killed by a stag at the beginning of the seriess? Stannis "kills" Robb depending on how much faith you put in leeches and fire.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:40
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hobbesmaster posted:Stannis "kills" Robb depending on how much faith you put in leeches and fire. I really don't think it's that literal. I think it's symbolism along the lines of Houses Stark and Baratheon are going to destroy each other. Also, I think at that point in the novels, Melissandre's powers were more limited. Yes, she (or Stannis, w/e) did use magic to kill Renly and Cortnay Penrose, but I'm pretty sure she merely saw the deaths of Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy dying in her fires and then used that foreknowledge to manipulate Stannis with a bullshit leech ritual.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:51
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CumFart Gurantee posted:I really don't think it's that literal. I think it's symbolism along the lines of Houses Stark and Baratheon are going to destroy each other. Also, I think at that point in the novels, Melissandre's powers were more limited. Yes, she (or Stannis, w/e) did use magic to kill Renly and Cortnay Penrose, but I'm pretty sure she merely saw the deaths of Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy dying in her fires and then used that foreknowledge to manipulate Stannis with a bullshit leech ritual. Or we can go all Anathem/Stephenson and propose that Melisandre used her magic to make that particular reality come to life.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:56
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The stag/wolf thing couldn't be more blatant. Neither Ned nor Robert survive the book and the when the stag dies, it brings the wolf down with it.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:31
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CapnAndy posted:The stag/wolf thing couldn't be more blatant. Neither Ned nor Robert survive the book and the when the stag dies, it brings the wolf down with it. I guess I was concentrating too much on the wolf and stag having killed each other so I was looking for something analogous where a Stark and Baratheon killed each other.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:50
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Too bad Ned didn't die with Roberts dick in his throat, as suggested by the antler.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:01
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jsoh posted:Too bad Ned didn't die with Roberts dick in his throat, as suggested by the antler. He sorta did, metaphorically, as revealing to Cersei he knew where Robert's dick had been was a big part of Ned's downfall. And of course Ned ended up getting his own dick (Ice) in his own throat 
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Oct 24, 2013 04:25
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webmeister posted:And of course Ned ended up getting his own dick (Ice) in his own throat That is some extreme autoerotic asphyxiating.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:33
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TOOT BOOT posted:I guess I was concentrating too much on the wolf and stag having killed each other so I was looking for something analogous where a Stark and Baratheon killed each other. Ned's actions directly caused Cersei to move her murder of Robert forward. Ned killed Robert and died himself from the consequences of it.
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Oct 24, 2013 04:34
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Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:11
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TOOT BOOT posted:Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her. How? Do you think Robert is going to taste the difference in the wine and send it to CSI: Kings Landing to get it tested? Like he could have not died and thats about it. There was no possible way to implicate her in anything.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:27
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TOOT BOOT posted:Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her. Drunk as poo poo boar hunting is probably dangerous as hell.
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Oct 24, 2013 05:34
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TOOT BOOT posted:I guess I was concentrating too much on the wolf and stag having killed each other so I was looking for something analogous where a Stark and Baratheon killed each other. killed 'em with they love TOOT BOOT posted:Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her. Except the chapter before, where we're told the stupid way that Robert ALWAYS hunts boar, and ALWAYS drinks. Drunks like him tend to have a very defined ability curve. Triple the potency and the only thing that can go wrong is finding no boar at all. But he stocks his woods specifically for Boar hunting. And, well, it's not like Cersei couldn't have a backup plan rypakal fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 05:46
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enq
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Oct 24, 2013 05:50
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jsoh posted:How? Her plan depended on a wild animal fatally wounding her husband and him passing away quickly. If he didn't find a boar, or the boar didn't cause any serious wounds, or if he got too drunk to walk, she would have would been hosed. Seems like it would have been much easier to just use poison given the stakes.
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Oct 24, 2013 06:05
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It doesnt matter anyway since Ned still had a chance to say something to him and pussed out.
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Oct 24, 2013 06:22
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TOOT BOOT posted:Her plan depended on a wild animal fatally wounding her husband and him passing away quickly. If he didn't find a boar, or the boar didn't cause any serious wounds, or if he got too drunk to walk, she would have would been hosed. Seems like it would have been much easier to just use poison given the stakes. Her plan was in action before Ned talked to her.
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Oct 24, 2013 06:29
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webmeister posted:He sorta did, metaphorically, as revealing to Cersei he knew where Robert's dick had been was a big part of Ned's downfall. Well, technically where his dick HADN'T been. When you play the game of dicks you either win or die.
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Oct 24, 2013 06:39
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I got the impression that Cersei had been trying to murder Robert on the sly for some time now and the melee and the hunt were just the most recent attempts.
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Oct 24, 2013 07:29
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TOOT BOOT posted:Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her. I get the feeling that her plan was to set up the place like the house from Home Alone except instead of paint cans and tarantulas she had bribed tourney fighters and wild pigs. The pig thing just happened to work before something else did. Basically if the guy survived the boar then probably an anvil would have fallen on him or something else like that.
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Oct 24, 2013 07:30
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I'm sure she tried poison but the man's liver completely metabolizes it.
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Oct 24, 2013 07:36
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Oct 24, 2013 07:52
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I would settle, happily, for Winterfell's Wacky Adventures of Arya and Jon.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:59
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I would love a prequel novella with just everyone in Winterfell hanging out and having feasts and enjoying each other's company-- the only plot points being petty sitcom-type squabbles that are humorous and quickly resolved.
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Oct 24, 2013 09:14
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Starks don't enjoy themselves, they just run about muttering 'winter is coming' at each other.
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Oct 24, 2013 09:28
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This is the story of two friends, Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark. Robert lives in a neighborhood known as, "rich." Robert likes life! The only thing about life he would change, if he could, is that he would set it all to music. The Baratheon-Lannisters have more secrets than they do money. We're approaching Ned Stark's castle. Ned, too, likes life. Unfortunately, life doesn't seem to be too crazy about him! As you can see, the Starks don't have nearly as much money as the Baratheon-Lannisters. They do, however, have as many secrets. [cut to Jon and Arya needlepointing a pile of poo onto Sansa's pillow]
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Oct 24, 2013 09:46
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SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:I get the feeling that her plan was to set up the place like the house from Home Alone except instead of paint cans and tarantulas she had bribed tourney fighters and wild pigs. The pig thing just happened to work before something else did. Basically if the guy survived the boar then probably an anvil would have fallen on him or something else like that. Paraphrasing from the book, Varys say's something like "A stray arrow, a horse falling. The forest is the abbatoir of the Gods. It was your mercy that killed Robert" to Ned when he's in the dungeons.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:50
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Cheers to whoever posted that Meereenese Blot link - it's been fascinating reading his theories on various parts of ADWD, especially Jon's and Dany's stories which are probably the most criticised parts. It's basically everything I wish the Huis Clos could've been, and really hope the guy does a couple of posts about Ramsay and Winterfell.
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Oct 24, 2013 12:34
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I was sure it was Azure Horizon's blog, isn't it?
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Oct 24, 2013 12:43
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SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:I get the feeling that her plan was to set up the place like the house from Home Alone except instead of paint cans and tarantulas she had bribed tourney fighters and wild pigs. The pig thing just happened to work before something else did. Basically if the guy survived the boar then probably an anvil would have fallen on him or something else like that. Roadrunner, that coyote's after you.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:19
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TOOT BOOT posted:Cersei killing Robert was the sketchiest murder plan ever. So many ways that could have gone wrong for her. It's not surprising that the plan wasn't the best given that she later thought it would be a good idea to not pay the iron bank and allow the church to form a military.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:24
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Don't forget about giving one of her advisors lesser nobles to vivisection.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:28
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hobbesmaster posted:Don't forget about giving one of her advisors lesser nobles to vivisection. That doesn't really backfire in a big way like the rest of her plans - she benefitted from that, getting Robert Strong.
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Oct 24, 2013 14:39
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