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David Corbett posted:The history of the papacy goes back to St. Peter (listed in my game as Greek) and the Ecumenical Patriarchy to his brother, St. Andrew (who, in my game, was inexplicably Scots). Inexplicably? 
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Nov 5, 2013 12:21
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Oh, right, thanks. And I suppose sending the targets are probably unreformed pagan too, so even if the armies aren't eradicated piecemeal when sending them by their constituent pieces they'd take horrible attrition while slowly rallying.
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Nov 5, 2013 12:23
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Readingaccount posted:Oh, right, thanks. Actually, that might be just what Grey needs to win against the Umayyads. Declare war, organize your stack deep into your own territory and bait them into doing the Yakety Sax around Ghana (since the AI prioritizes killing their enemy's army) while laughing that they are dying by the hundreds to our unreformed pagan bonus. The deserts are the greatest allies of the Ogoonu!
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Nov 5, 2013 13:20
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ZearothK posted:Actually, that might be just what Grey needs to win against the Umayyads. Declare war, organize your stack deep into your own territory and bait them into doing the Yakety Sax around Ghana (since the AI prioritizes killing their enemy's army) while laughing that they are dying by the hundreds to our unreformed pagan bonus. The deserts are the greatest allies of the Ogoonu! That seems like a really good idea, actually. Is there any reason why we haven't been fighting more defensively against the Umayyads? I'm getting the impression we're outnumbered against them, so I would think that would be a better a strategy.
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Nov 5, 2013 15:38
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Even if he isn't outnumbered by them, that is a very good idea to put the odds better in his favor compared to fighting fair.
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Nov 5, 2013 23:52
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The one problem is that if we're trying to declare wars of conquest, the enemy doesn't actually need to do anything; time is on their side. If we don't attack, ticking warscore will start to benefit them, as long as we don't control the target. Of course, I'm pretty sure the AI is too dumb to realize this, and will happily bleed itself to death sieging in the Sahara. But in principle, the tactic of "declare war and run away" is unsound.
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Nov 5, 2013 23:55
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Even with that, they could be baited. If Grey waits to attack until they're occupied on some other front (as he's been doing) he can bring up an army to use as a siege force and one to keep in reserve. Even if the siege force gets beaten, the enemy will likely try to capitalise on that and crush the remainder of his army, and that's when he drags them into the trackless Sahara. e. Note, strategy one is not letting the siege army get eaten up, hopefully they can also draw the Arabs into the desert.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:02
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V. Illych L. posted:Even with that, they could be baited. If Grey waits to attack until they're occupied on some other front (as he's been doing) he can bring up an army to use as a siege force and one to keep in reserve. Even if the siege force gets beaten, the enemy will likely try to capitalise on that and crush the remainder of his army, and that's when he drags them into the trackless Sahara. I have a feeling that Grey being Grey, he would probably object to anything less than this, because as stated, it's unlikely that anybody would respond to a snotty note from a bunch of sub-saharans declaring that they're officially at war with you, by marching ten thousand men through the trackless desert to go rough them up. Even though the AI may do that if given a chance.
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Nov 6, 2013 08:13
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Bot 02 posted:That seems like a really good idea, actually. Is there any reason why we haven't been fighting more defensively against the Umayyads? I'm getting the impression we're outnumbered against them, so I would think that would be a better a strategy. Out forces match the Umayyads, but as they are Muslims, they get to call on allies in defencive wars, meaning that they bring in anohter 20,000 men from their neigbours. I have a plan though. I could say if it will work or not, but I'm halfway through writing the next update....
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Nov 6, 2013 08:17
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Grey Hunter posted:I have a plan though. I got chills.
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Nov 6, 2013 10:07
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With the expansion and inevitable patch coming up in about a week, hopefully your savegame doesn't get nuked 
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Nov 6, 2013 11:31
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Grey Hunter posted:I have a plan though. Do it the Ogoonu way and mate with their women BEFORE pillaging, and even conquest? Make them want us to come before we're even there by turning them into us? Sir, you're a genius!
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Nov 6, 2013 14:25
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Is it possible to completely purge all non dynasty courtiers/counts/dukes from our realm or will they keep replenishing themselves from out of nowhere? Because getting rid of the whole "Ghana" thing and becoming the Ogoona family would be all kinds of cool.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:53
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"Ghana, short for Ogoona, is a country in Africa."
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Nov 6, 2013 16:06
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Asehujiko posted:Is it possible to completely purge all non dynasty courtiers/counts/dukes from our realm or will they keep replenishing themselves from out of nowhere? Because getting rid of the whole "Ghana" thing and becoming the Ogoona family would be all kinds of cool. It would be tricky to get rid of all the courtiers since they do respawn but you could definitely have everyone with a title as an ogoonu, although it would require either a lot of clever marriages, huge amounts of tyrannous imprisonings or trying to get your non-dynasty vassals to revolt so you can legally strip them of their title and give it to a family member. This guy did it: http://imgur.com/a/lFdvC
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Nov 6, 2013 16:10
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UrbicaMortis posted:This guy did it: http://imgur.com/a/lFdvC That can't possibly be done without cheating 
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Nov 6, 2013 16:16
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nimby posted:That can't possibly be done without cheating Thinking about it, it should be fairly easily done, it just takes longer than your standard WC. Since CK2 is so hilariously abusable to the point where you can WC in roughly 75 years (see also: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?650411-CK2-Hall-of-Fame-v2 ), adding additional challenges like making every ruler one of your dynasty is practically required to up the ante.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:48
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Byzantine posted:I got chills. Are they multiplying? Because Grey's losing control!
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Nov 6, 2013 17:05
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nimby posted:That can't possibly be done without cheating A while ago, someone demonstrated that in a sufficiently large empire, the tyranny penalty from revoking every title in your realm is offset by the relations bonus from giving your new vassals huge tracts of land.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:10
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Byzantine posted:I got chills. They're multiplying. And I'm losing control.
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Nov 6, 2013 17:20
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 Mamadou gives his son the Capital to look after, and moves his capital north for a time to try and focus building it up. This also gives his son a chance to make his own way. It takes a few years for the countries money to build up to the point of being useful.  The Umayyad's go to war with the Aghlabids, and the Mansa decides to try his luck at war once more. Third time lucky right?  He masses his troops this time, but does not do so in time to stop the keep in Tafilalet from being burned down.  This time the first battle is a Ghanan victory.   The war with the Aghlabids ends, and they immediately come to the aid of the Umayyads.  Mamoudou's Marshall is able to combine his forces in time for the main Muslim army to hit, and a epic battle occurs.  Killing near two to one, the Ghanan light infantry and their bows, lead by better generals, turn the tide and win the day.  Another huge army slams into the force lead by Marshal Outai.  Another 5,000 Ummayad troops arrive and this battle turns from a victory to a defeat.  Mamoudou hires five thousand of his own mercenaries and sends his army back in.  The next year sees many more battle against smaller forces as the Sheik tries to raise armies but Outai can catch them before they form up.   With one final battle the strength of the Umayyad's is finally broken.  The war ends, and Marrakesh, one of the sites holy to the Snake in the Well, becomes part of Ghana!  With three cities, two castles and a temple, it is a province worth taking, even at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.  The Muslim Wali is removed from the mosque and it is given to his half brother.   It maybe peaceful now for Ghana as a country, but there are always the inter-tribal wars to watch. Here Gao and Kumbee-Tenga are scrapping over some of the minor tribes.  Goa win. Mamoudou is not worried, as it will split in half in the next generation.   The next couple of years pass peacefully, and Marrakesh begins to pay into the royal coffers. Then Manaoudou is told of a plot against him.  This is quickly followed by another revelation that forces him to remove his Spymaster.  The Mansa's wife dies.  In true Ogoonu tradition, She is replaced by a lustful woman half the Mansa's age. (No lustful sixteen year olds were available)  Although it risks the old man's heart, he gives her his all. He may be called the effeminate, but it seems that Mamoudou is bisexual at least.   The Muslim population in Tafilalet do not take kindly to the words of the Well Snake.  Three and a half thousand of them launch and attack on the Mansa's garrison. Men are called up from all quarters to help put this revolt down.  Even with a thousand more men they cannot defeat true Ghanan soldiers.  The rebels are quickly crushed and N'Guna, the leader, executed.   After thirty two years on the throne Mamoudou dies. It is fitting that his epitaph is “He was effeminate, for an Ogoonu!” The Mansa's lands are split between his three eldest sons.  Zakoi II takes the reigns of the country. He already has a son of age, and four daughters. He is a naive appraiser, wrothful, gregarious, cynical and gluttonous, he remains a kind man. He also has a huge pile of money.  The Umayyads seem to have been waiting for this moment, as they declare war. Marrakesh is theirs they say, and they are coming to take it.  It does seem that Mamoudou was not finished populating the world with Ogoonus.  Armies are massed.  It takes some time, but Zakoi is able to finally bring the enemy to battle. Starvation and forced marches have reduced both armies by a great deal.  This is another great Ghanan victory, and allows the new Mansa to prove his worth on the field of battle, something that has been lacking from recent monarchs.  The Umayyads bring up another army of huge size, and a series of defeats force the Ghanan's back into their own lands.  As we bring this update to a close, we see the old Ghanan tactic of paying for a whole load of mercenaries come into play. The tide turns and the Muslim forces flee north through the inhospitable desert.  While you will have to wait for the resolution of that conflict, we have reached the turning of another century, and it is time to see what has been happening in the world. Ghana is still Ghana.  Aquataine is the only Christian power left in Iberia, it is now split between four powers.  Western Europe sees France and Aquitaine holding lands, Lombardy has lost the lands of East Francia, but there are several large kingdoms here.  Britain is split between England and Scotland.  Scandinavia has Norway hanging on to the coast with Karelia the main power.  Central Europe has the normal patchwork of countries.  But, I can hear you asking from here, who are the blue nation?  It seems the Turks have been busy...... Byzantium is crumbling, and has a number of buffer states.  Finally, the Middle East and North East Africa. Arabia is a major power here.  Some interesting things going on there.....
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Nov 6, 2013 17:22
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An Ogoonu who is neither craven nor lustful? Are you sure he is a real Ogoonu? Also, nice work taking Marrakech! Are we far away from reforming the religion?
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Nov 6, 2013 18:06
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What's that Blue Natio... oh. Oh. OH. drat the Turks are busy. Only they seem to be much further north than historical?
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Nov 6, 2013 18:09
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Surgut nationalists will be one very smug people if things continue like this.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:17
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The Seljuk are only a decade away from imploding!
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Nov 6, 2013 18:24
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Glorious three non-contiguous chunks of Serbia!
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Nov 6, 2013 18:28
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No wonder the Seljuks are on the rise: They control Bulgaria!
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Nov 6, 2013 18:33
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Well done grey! Keep it up. Ill do another history post (or two, or three) on the weekend.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:43
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The Well Snake is with us this day. I may have originally supported a Welsh kingdom (being part Welsh) but drat if Ghana isn't proving to be awesome.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:54
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I just had the thought of this game in EU4 or Vicky 2 with a Sunni Russia. It was great.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:57
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Vaga42Bond posted:What's that Blue Natio... oh. Oh. OH. This happens with the Ilkhanate too. Horde AI tends to prefer conquering easy targets where possible, and the Russian states tend to be much less united & easier to conquer than Arabia/Persia. This also means that the Golden Horde beginning by conquering the Ilkhanate is really common, since the Ilkhanate will happily swallow the whole east edge of the map before moving west. It's kind of dumb!
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Nov 6, 2013 19:02
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PleasingFungus posted:This happens with the Ilkhanate too. Horde AI tends to prefer conquering easy targets where possible, and the Russian states tend to be much less united & easier to conquer than Arabia/Persia. I suspect what's driving the push north for the Seljuks is their religious differences with the Tengri steppe and the Holy War CB. You'll notice that they haven't pushed west through the Muslim buffer states between themselves and the ERE as they did historically, despite Azerbaijan-Armenia's military being much smaller than theirs and still the most significant opposition.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:15
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Marrakech both taken and held! How is our religious authority doing, and what's out last holy site?
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Nov 6, 2013 19:23
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Jazerus posted:I suspect what's driving the push north for the Seljuks is their religious differences with the Tengri steppe and the Holy War CB. You'll notice that they haven't pushed west through the Muslim buffer states between themselves and the ERE as they did historically, despite Azerbaijan-Armenia's military being much smaller than theirs and still the most significant opposition. Yep, that's probably true too. Poor Russia.
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Nov 6, 2013 20:00
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Vaga42Bond posted:What's that Blue Natio... oh. Oh. OH. They get 70k free spawn attritionless troops. In CK2+, most empires have only around 30k troops. They can basically beat up anyone they want.
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Nov 6, 2013 21:07
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What's the last province we need before taking the Well Snake to new heights?
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Nov 6, 2013 21:25
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Atlas mountain if I remember correctly
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Nov 6, 2013 21:55
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Looks like the Seljuks are beating the everloving poo poo out of everyone as they historically did even if this time they've gone in a slightly different direction. Maybe they just got lost.
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Nov 7, 2013 08:09
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Neruz posted:Looks like the Seljuks are beating the everloving poo poo out of everyone as they historically did even if this time they've gone in a slightly different direction. Maybe they just got lost.  "Look guys, I keep telling you, Rome is just right over there..." "Dude, this is like the fifth "Rome" we've been to."
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Nov 7, 2013 08:15
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the JJ posted:
They're just Roman around. Had to take out the Third Rome before it got going in this timeline. Two of them is bad enough!
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Nov 7, 2013 10:12
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