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Stabitha posted:What I totally missed until just now is that Denis O'Hare's Season 1 character, Larry Harvey, was in reference to Larry Harvey, the co-founder of the Burning Man festival. And O'Hare's character was literally a burning man (or burned man). Wow.  It's just a show that never stops giving.
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Nov 9, 2013 04:27
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ThatPazuzu posted:I have to say I'm not a fan of what they've done to LaLaurie. I like the idea of a seemingly normal woman who tortures slaves in sadistic ways because she doesn't even register them as human as opposed to a ghoulish figure that has a tray for of eyes on Halloween. The former seems more real and nuanced than the second. Not only that, but I think they missed a few steps in the writers room between "unmitigated sociopath" and "she's mostly sorry so it's all good".
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Nov 9, 2013 05:58
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Also she went from "all niggers must burn in hell" to "Oh, well you saved me from the minotaur, so I guess black poeple are okay now."
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Nov 9, 2013 06:36
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...wouldn't you?
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Nov 9, 2013 09:01
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uptown posted:...wouldn't you? This. To be fair, most people "back then" didn't put much thought into racism. They literally believed that African Americans were less than they were because it was how they were taught and what society said. The ones who changed their minds did so mainly because they were confronted with proof otherwise, and that's how the African American civil rights movement (and most other civil rights movements) got started.
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Nov 9, 2013 09:08
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the posted:Also she went from "all niggers must burn in hell" to "Oh, well you saved me from the minotaur, so I guess black poeple are okay now." She's still a monster, she's just surrounded by other monsters that could snap her like a twig just by thinking about it. Of course she's going to keep her head down. I mean, she maintained the pretense of being a normal person for decades in a prominent social position, and now she's just the maid in a house that gets attacked by zombies and minotaurs. With one or two notable exceptions even the "sympathetic" characters in this show are liars, murderers, and rapists. It makes almost as much sense to root for Marie Laveau as it does for anyone in the main cast, and the only thing that stops it from being that is that Cordelia at least seems interested in trying to steer the girls right and now that she apparently has the magical power to see through bullshit, she might even make some progress. That said, they are still sympathetic, which is a testament to the writing. It establishes witchcraft as this horrible toxic tradition that pulls young girls away from their families and isolates them, indoctrinates them, and perpetuates a cycle of hatred, abuse, and infighting. The best part is it could be equally compelling as a story about one or more of the protagonists standing up to that, or just rising to the top of the whole bloody pile.
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Nov 9, 2013 11:22
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Yea, that fact that you can watch the opening of the latest episode and not five minutes later think "Oh, no, don't get eaten by zombies!" when what you should think is "I hope they loving tear you apart", is saying something about the writing. Especially considering some of those zombies were her daughters.
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Nov 9, 2013 11:45
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I didn't really mean to include Lalaurie in that analysis, she can get chomped on for all I care. (Well, that's not quite strictly true, she's one of the many potentially destabilizing elements the series is stacking up -- sooner or later the other shoe is going to drop and she'll cause some real trouble, which is more interesting than her just arbitrarily biting it now.) EDIT: She's also pretty much the comic relief of the series. Think about that for a second. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 11:52
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Seems like any effort to show any of the characters in a sympathetic light is sort of falling flat considering how vile they can all turn around and be. Particularly Fiona, considering she's at the center of everything, but I've already made my feelings on that pretty clear. Y'know, I'm just gonna say it: Zoe, as a character, sucks. So far she's little more than a walking cliche of the mousy girl with immense power, who happens to be awful at everything until that very last moment where she opens up a deus ex machina. The fact that she's still timidly asking Queenie, "They-They're not really gonna burn her are they?," after everything she's already done and witnessed, is fairly annoying. And that's ignoring this Romeo & Juliet story that's supposedly a central plot of this season, even though Kyle's currently an MIA zombie. Not that Queenie's much better as the neglected daughter of Detroit, willing to burn a man over a piece of chicken (despite criticizing Madison for the same behavior,) have voodoo sex with a minotaur because he's there, and falling for Fiona's delusions of grandeur (not to mention her general distaste for "cracker bitches.") And I'd comment on some of the other ones if I had enough on them to do so. The more time goes on, the more I hope my theory that Nan is really pulling all the strings comes true. It's not that I hate any of them, and I know we're only coming up on episode six of thirteen, but still. Basically I'm just reiterating that most of the characters not named Fiona need to get more screen time and more time to develop beyond their casting call descriptions. Don't mean to rant, just can't sleep and sort of down on how they're progressing with the whole thing so far (and hoping to stimulate discussion a bit.)
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Nov 9, 2013 14:24
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OmegaBR posted:Seems like any effort to show any of the characters in a sympathetic light is sort of falling flat considering how vile they can all turn around and be. Particularly Fiona, considering she's at the center of everything, but I've already made my feelings on that pretty clear. As to Zoe, I do agree with you completely that so far she's been a really, really DULL character with annoying naivete which is becoming more of a brand of her character, in a way which isn't at all becoming. And she's been more of a narrator overall, so it was a little jarring to see her wielding a chainsaw this last episode (Me: "Oh, is that her new superpower?") . I even like the actress, thought she did a really decent job in the first season. But in this one with the opening, I was like, Oh look , a mousy thing with super powers....Zzzzzz. She's not been very well-developed. The Romeo/Juliet thing is really strange and not in an interesting way. I put up with it because of Lily Rabe's involvement, since I adore her. As to the other characters being sympathetic, well, I think LaLaurie in general is sympathetic due to more attentive writing, spending a couple hundred years in the ground (gives one time to think), as well as being in the hands of Kathy Bates....I think a good actor knows how to make a character who is despicable seem more redeeming, especially when the writing helps the actor along. Queenie, I am not too sure of. I am not bothered by her, but I don't really sense her strength, which sort of bothers me. She feels out of place and not as well-written. I was hoping they would do more with her, the treatment in general of this character feels like an afterthought, there isn't much which is very solid about her character. I thought she was possibly glamoured by Fiona in the scene with her in the bedroom, and I could go for the glomour thing, but I am a little confused by the entire thing because all this talk of Fiona losing her power due to a new supreme seems to have zero backup...she's still able to resurrect , do some healing, even some slight telepathy, as well as cast the glamour. If anything, her own powers seem to have grown in the past couple of episodes after she told Madison she was losing them. What gives? As to the rest: I think there are a lot of less-than-sympathetic characters in general but the problem is that the show itself isn't purely character driven, but even more importantly, it's such a large central cast with fairly well-known names and some strong actors, so it feels like there's a lot of competing with screen time even with the writing. I think it's a bit problematic actually, this season. There are really many very important characters that range from very well-known to moderately well-known actors, including the recurring ones which we know are part of the AHS scenery. The show's a little over its own head, and I do think it's evident. But I am having a lot of fun with it anyway. MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 05:42
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MadSparkle posted:I am a little confused by the entire thing because all this talk of Fiona losing her power due to a new supreme seems to have zero backup...she's still able to resurrect , do some healing, even some slight telepathy, as well as cast the glamour. If anything, her own powers seem to have grown in the past couple of episodes after she told Madison she was losing them. What gives? A couple of people have brought this up now. Just remember, we haven't seen how powerful she was yet.
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Nov 10, 2013 16:43
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Dr. Benway posted:A couple of people have brought this up now. Just remember, we haven't seen how powerful she was yet. That's true. If she was even more powerful then holy poo poo.
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Nov 10, 2013 19:13
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MadSparkle posted:That's true. If she was even more powerful then holy poo poo. Well, keep in mind, she said when she killed the last supreme she felt "a rush of power", which means going from "potent witch" to "supreme witch" is A WHOLE NEW TIER. Probably something to that whole thing.
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Nov 10, 2013 22:12
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I just wanted to add that I think Fiona is getting so much screen time because Jessica Lange has become the star of the show, and I think the writers are relying a bit too much on her to carry the season. It's like we're getting too much Lange (which I don't wanna believe is possible), and it's hurting the development of every other character on the show. They really are neglecting the rest of the talent and it's definitely hurting the show. In order to make up for this, they really need to push Fiona into the background for the next 3 or 4 episodes and let everyone else do what they're great at. I know we've gotta be at the cusp of some new characters walking in and loving everything up, so I can't wait to see how the dynamics change in the next couple of weeks. In the past, AHS hasn't been afraid to shake it up halfway thru the season, so I'm really excited for what they have in store for us. But yeah, I agree with the general consensus of this thread. Zoe is lame, need more Tate, Lalaurie is gross but amazing, and Madison went way too soon (and Nan is da poo poo).
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Nov 11, 2013 01:29
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This is the first time they haven't been thematically tied to a location. Seasons one and two had to have a good reason to leave the house/asylum, which gave a sense of focus. The threads of Coven haven't started to gel yet, and I hope they manage to pull it off. For format alone, AHS is already the most daring show on television, I'll forgive them taking some risks that don't pay off.
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Nov 11, 2013 02:05
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Just finished Asylum last night and I did not really enjoy how it all wrapped up. The final 2 episodes felt like a way-too-long epilogue instead of being part of the rest of the season, and the way they handled Rabe/Cromwell was easily the worst writing in the series (probably hurts more because they were 2 of the most interesting characters up to that point, being played by 2 of the best actors). That said, I really really loved the season up until episode 10, and I think all it would need for me to come around on it is a little bit of editing towards the end and perhaps incorporate some of the "epilogue" into the earlier story.
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Nov 11, 2013 02:23
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Dr. John, for all your witch burning soundtrack needs. I prefer the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion cover. I just saw this episode, since I get them a few days late. That was some evil, Walter White level manipulation from Fiona, and if I watched this show for the characters or the plot I'd have lost sympathy for her. I wish they'd some traditional voodoo zombies instead of Romero ones. I'd never heard of LaLaurie or Laveau before this show, so I feel like I'm missing something. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 12:54
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fullroundaction posted:Just finished Asylum last night and I did not really enjoy how it all wrapped up. The final 2 episodes felt like a way-too-long epilogue instead of being part of the rest of the season, and the way they handled Rabe/Cromwell was easily the worst writing in the series (probably hurts more because they were 2 of the most interesting characters up to that point, being played by 2 of the best actors). I'm honestly amazed to hear someone say that. Everyone I've ever spoken to about Asylum says their favorite part of the entire series is the Rabe/Cromwell scene. It was just really powerful and unexpected (for me, at least). Kit and the monsignor's endings on the other hand? Ugh.
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Nov 12, 2013 00:18
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I think the stillborn baby scene should be taken another way; it's a look at witchcraft from two different perspectives. You have the "evil witch who sours the cattle's milk and causes babies to be stillborn" vs. "wise healing woman who can save a baby because of practical knowledge (which is clearly from the devil, burn her!)" Stillborn babies and witches are just one of those things.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:13
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superkittenhugs posted:I'm honestly amazed to hear someone say that. Everyone I've ever spoken to about Asylum says their favorite part of the entire series is the Rabe/Cromwell scene. That's really weird to me. I mean the actors handled the material as best as it could have been, but I thought it felt super anticlimactic. One of the characters is literally the devil with all kinds of supernatural powers, not the least of which is knowing everything everyone is going to do because he can read minds. He is defeated (permanently) by a character falling down harder than usual. And that's ... it. Literally-the-devil's story ends there and everyone moves on without really being worried about [that entire loving situation], even though it was shown earlier that he can jump bodies easily. The other character is a Nazi who does horrible things (a lot of which we get to see) and is in a power struggle with The Devil, the head of the institution, aliens, the law (because of the hooker), Lange (because of her research), and pretty much every inmate in the building. None of that matters though because there's no payoff to all of the awesome stuff they set up. He just dies. He doesn't pay for anything he's done and no one gets vengeance/redemption. This all sounds really negative but like I said I really did enjoy 90% of the season. I just wish something more interesting had ended those particular characters' arcs. e: phone grammar fullroundaction fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 01:33
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OmegaBR posted:The more time goes on, the more I hope my theory that Nan is really pulling all the strings comes true. The more time goes on, the less sense that theory makes and the dumber it'd be if it somehow turned out to be true. It didn't make much sense when it was first offered (its entire basis is that she was present for a single one of Madison's power displays) and it makes less sense now. If she was the next supreme, why didn't she do anything when she was like 2 seconds from being destroyed by zombies? I think the best theory is that Zoe and Misty will share the power like a yin/yang type thing due to Misty's death/resurrection. Their stories are intertwined already, so it seems like it'd fit. Zoe hasn't been all that interesting so far, but there's still plenty of time. It's not like Nan's done much either other than make a couple sarcastic comments and pine over the neighbor boy.
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Nov 12, 2013 02:18
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I actually kind of liked how Asylum settled down. Going from the extreme ridiculousness of the middle episodes down to a (relatively) simple "son of a serial killer" bit just worked somehow. The only thing I'm really disappointed about is that we never got a throwdown between aliens and the devil.
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Nov 12, 2013 03:02
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Piell posted:I actually kind of liked how Asylum settled down. Going from the extreme ridiculousness of the middle episodes down to a (relatively) simple "son of a serial killer" bit just worked somehow. The only thing I'm really disappointed about is that we never got a throwdown between aliens and the devil. I agree, it sort of felt like craziness from all over the place just came together for just this short, intense period of insanity that burnt to hot to fast and put itself out, and everything after was just the people who somehow got through it all trying (and sometimes failing) to put themselves and their lives back together again. It was a bit of an unusually structure for a TV show, but I really appreciated it.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:51
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Well, no longer need to speculate... Url is a spoiler: http://www.vulture.com/2013/11/stvevie-nicks-american-horror-story.html Tuxedo Jack fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 18:35
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Well, no longer need to speculate... That is fantastic news.
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Nov 12, 2013 19:02
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This is going to be the best thing since Cher was on the X-Files.
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Nov 12, 2013 19:10
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Well, no longer need to speculate... The new supreme has been found!
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Nov 12, 2013 19:32
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dr_rat posted:I agree, it sort of felt like craziness from all over the place just came together for just this short, intense period of insanity that burnt to hot to fast and put itself out, and everything after was just the people who somehow got through it all trying (and sometimes failing) to put themselves and their lives back together again. I actually liked the message (if you can call it that) at the end: all of these supernatural creatures are running around creating havoc, and yet people remain the scariest monsters of all. You can defeat every paranormal being out there, but you can never defeat the bad parts of human nature. It's a theme common to horror (see: Stephen King) but one that is a great theme if done properly. Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 20:39
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Watching the last episode, at first all I could think was "who the hell wears a corset when going to watch somebody get set on fire?", but actually there's a club I go to where that happens all the time.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:06
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Russell William Thorpe posted:Watching the last episode, at first all I could think was "who the hell wears a corset when going to watch somebody get set on fire?", but actually there's a club I go to where that happens all the time. How else are you going to set a world record for fiercest witch burning ever?
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Nov 13, 2013 09:16
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Well, no longer need to speculate... I'm so excited for this, so exited for Misty. Ohhhh, Misty  It's gonna be really hard to avoid this thread until the weekend, when I can watch tonight's episode  I have the biggest girl crush on Misty/Rabe.
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Nov 13, 2013 12:22
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Piell posted:I actually kind of liked how Asylum settled down. Going from the extreme ridiculousness of the middle episodes down to a (relatively) simple "son of a serial killer" bit just worked somehow. The only thing I'm really disappointed about is that we never got a throwdown between aliens and the devil. But it didn't settle down so much as drift into a paint by the numbers ABC list of trite endings. It's like they hit the last four episodes and realized they had no plan for what to do with the plot lines. Season one was similar. It was great until the last 45 minutes of the final episode, when they seemed to just jam in a dozen different endings cobbled together by committee with no real point. Season two ended with four episodes of pointless endings. This season I'm just hoping they manage to convey what the point is in the first place, before it ends. * Eh, that sounded like I was bitching just to bitch. So far AHS has pulled off a season and a half worth of brilliant shows. And as much as I think season two fell on it's face, I'd still recommend anyone to watch it just for the things it did well. I just wish this season would get it together. Lord Frankenstyle fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 12:37
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Oh so you're one of these where everything needs to wrap up in a neat little bow? Gotcha
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Nov 13, 2013 14:33
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Everything in AHS always does wrap up in a neat little box though.
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Nov 13, 2013 14:50
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Tonight on American Horror Story: "The Axeman Cometh" Zoe, Queenie, and Nan contact a trapped spirit.
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Nov 13, 2013 15:23
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American Horror Story is messy because LIFE is messy. And isn't that the greatest horror of all? No, the greatest horror of all is racism, because racism creates sexualized minotaurs. The sexualized minotaurs that lurk within us all.
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Nov 13, 2013 15:25
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At first all I could think was "where the hell can I find a sexualized, racism-created minotaur", but actually there's a club I go to where they hang out all the time.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:05
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So Zoe's an avatar of death and Misty's an avatar of life, so far. And since Fiona is spending all of her time fending off her death I almost wonder if Zoe is there for the particular purpose of ending the imbalance and bad poo poo that Fiona caused through usurpation and breaking the natural cycle. Zoe has, so far: killed two men via sex, turned out to be a total murder machine against zombies, and then turned the undead back with her mind. I'm pretty sure we're supposed to get the impression that she's all about ending things...maybe my reading's wrong? e: also I'm pretty sure LaLaurie is going to do a 180 and murder someone by the end in the vicious and ugly way she did back in the 1840s, as she's been presented as downright pathological in her cruelty and murdering. Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 23:52
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Holy poo poo Danny Huston.
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Nov 14, 2013 04:02
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Holy poo poo the jazz.
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Nov 14, 2013 04:04
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