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Player of Games would be by far the easiest to adapt. No faster-than-light hyperdimensional action to convey, and even happens mostly on a planet instead of GSVs or Orbitals.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:24
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Just finished The Business. I find that often Banks' novels have a slow start, but build to an awesome ending (see: Use of Weapons, Excession, maybe even Look to Windward). This was kind of the reverse. I really loved this book, but felt like the plot resolution at the end (well, actually, before the epilogue) was a little rushed and underdone. (Although, now that I mention it, it's not hard to find other Banks books that follow that structure. See: Matter.) A really enjoyable read though, and I was only slightly let down by the ending.
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Nov 6, 2013 23:25
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MikeJF posted:Player of Games would be by far the easiest to adapt. No faster-than-light hyperdimensional action to convey, and even happens mostly on a planet instead of GSVs or Orbitals. wimbbly wobbl-loving patience, Gurgeh!
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Nov 13, 2013 01:36
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It might be difficult to show the flow of the game on screen, without expository paragraphs to fall back on.
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Nov 13, 2013 21:17
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Those On My Left posted:Just finished The Business. I find that often Banks' novels have a slow start, but build to an awesome ending (see: Use of Weapons, Excession, maybe even Look to Windward). Yes. It's been a while since I've read sci-fi, or a longer book or series as opposed to shorts - I'm 20 pages into Use of Weapons and I'm eye-rolling just a little. The prologue was a bit cliched and silly.. I've been reading so much ancient sci-fi, Heinlein juveniles and the like.. I guess I've just gotten used to language used. I've never read any Banks, this is my first go. Anyways, I've only barely started, time to read some more  edit: I have met Skaffen-Amtiskaw. He casually sauntered in, called an extremely important lady 'toots' and she was annoyed by it. All is well. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 21:57
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Peel posted:It might be difficult to show the flow of the game on screen, without expository paragraphs to fall back on. It'd also be a lot of monologuing of what's going on in Gurgeh's head. I think if any book is suited to a film adaptation it'd be Look To Windward, but obviously that's not very action-y. Other contenders could be Surface Detail, as a lot of that focusses on individuals and what they do, but is still tense with action parts. Hyperspace travel and fighting tends to happen off-screen when it happens, and the stuff we get shown is relatively slow-pace. You could also possibly do something with The Hydrogen Sonata, although I'd rank it as a more remote possibility. Use of Weapons I'm not a fan of for an adaptation, because while it is a Culture book, it's not a book about the Culture, it's a book about Zakalwe, and would also be fairly confusing to watch, at least as its written.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:53
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MikeJF posted:Player of Games would be by far the easiest to adapt. No faster-than-light hyperdimensional action to convey, and even happens mostly on a planet instead of GSVs or Orbitals. By that standard I think Consider Phlebas would be one of the easiest books to adapt on screen, even if part of it does take place on an orbital. Of course like most books, I also think it'd work better as a TV series than as a film...
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Nov 14, 2013 00:09
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I think Use of Weapons would make a fine miniseries. I could see it being like the best, strangest season of Highlander.
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Nov 14, 2013 00:58
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Kassad posted:By that standard I think Consider Phlebas would be one of the easiest books to adapt on screen, even if part of it does take place on an orbital. Even Banks said that if one of his books was to be adapted to film, he would want it to be Consider Phlebas. He went so far as to say he would endorse changing parts to make it more Hollywood friendly, like making the ending a happy one. If you read Consider Phlebas with this in mind, you'll see why. There's lot of set-piece action scenes, grandly scaled locales for dazzling special effects, an ensemble of one-note characters, and the central conflict in the book can be easily distilled into a 2 hour format without really losing much. Next time anyone finds themselves reading it, when you get to the part where the CAT is escaping the Ends of Invention, try to imagine it shot like the asteroid belt scene in the Empire Strikes Back, complete with a rousing John Williams' score and it will click. Lasting Damage fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 02:37
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Just finished Transition. I enjoyed it but it also felt like he tried to squeeze too much into one book; too much time spent on minor superfluous characters.
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Nov 20, 2013 11:32
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gender illusionist posted:Just finished Transition. I enjoyed it but it also felt like he tried to squeeze too much into one book; too much time spent on minor superfluous characters. I'm reading this at the moment. Am maybe a quarter of the way through and finding it pretty hard to keep track of everything.
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Nov 20, 2013 23:09
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Those On My Left posted:I'm reading this at the moment. Am maybe a quarter of the way through and finding it pretty hard to keep track of everything. Update: Finished it. I think Banks's books are often either saved or undone by their endings, and this book is definitely saved by it. A proper climax with good resolution. Yes, it's complicated, but now that I think about it, after the ending, I have a pretty good read on how it all went down. Although, some of the world's metaphysical mechanics and circumstances (e.g. why particular characters turn out to have particular abilities) aren't very satisfactorily explained (if at all), but given that it's a book about infinitely branching parallel universes, I suppose I can't complain too much.
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Nov 27, 2013 00:20
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Lasting Damage posted:Even Banks said that if one of his books was to be adapted to film, he would want it to be Consider Phlebas. He went so far as to say he would endorse changing parts to make it more Hollywood friendly, like making the ending a happy one. If you read Consider Phlebas with this in mind, you'll see why. There's lot of set-piece action scenes, grandly scaled locales for dazzling special effects, an ensemble of one-note characters, and the central conflict in the book can be easily distilled into a 2 hour format without really losing much. Consider Phlebas is only the second Culture book I've read (about to start Player of Games) and I was repeatedly struck while reading it by the fact that it would make an excellent film or miniseries. Although to be fair, my point of reference is Use of Weapons and I can't even imagine trying to adapt that. I think the scene you mentioned is even the one where it started to click for me.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:56
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Use of Weapons is always going to be impossible to adapt into a visual medium because it would force the showrunners to decide on points of contention. For example, I've seen some people in this thread who think that Elethiomel actually believes he is Cheradenine, whereas I personally hate that interpretation. Also, there's the obvious flashbacks where the presentation only works because you can't see the difference between the person calling himself Cheradenine and the person who actually is Cheradenine. I really wish there was another Culture novel that could work as a miniseries, because there's a lot there. Consider Phlebas only touched on a few of the extraordinarily imaginative ideas that would go one to define the series, it was mostly space opera. I mean, it wasn't bad at all, but if there was only one shot at a Culture show I wouldn't pick it if I could help it.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:02
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I said it before, but I think Player of Games would work as a miniseries.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:18
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You could adapt almost any Culture novel to film. If something isn't amenable to visual adaptation, then unless it's vital to the plot or thematically relevant, you just change it. Use of Weapons is the only one I can think of with actual legitimate obstacles, namely disguising "Zakalwe's" identity, but on the other hand finding a good cinematic solution to that would be really cool in its own right.
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Nov 29, 2013 03:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You could adapt almost any Culture novel to film. If something isn't amenable to visual adaptation, then unless it's vital to the plot or thematically relevant, you just change it. You could just shoot 2 different versions of the Elethiomel scenes with the actors switching roles after the reveal.
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Nov 29, 2013 11:34
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Strawman posted:You could just shoot 2 different versions of the Elethiomel scenes with the actors switching roles after the reveal. Or just have a different actor from both Elethiomel and Zakalwe's flashbacks and attribute it to the extensive surgery he has undergone since joining the Culture. Not that I get all the love for Use of Weapons, apart from the "shocking twist" (which is more than expected nowadays and only works the first time anyway) it's not that interesting and I saw that twist coming a mile away. My favorite Culture book is Player of Games but given the extensive role Azad plays in the story I think Surface Detail would probably work the best as an adaptation. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Nov 29, 2013 |
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Nov 29, 2013 11:40
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You'd have to cut out a fair bit of the stuff prior to him joining the Culture, then. I'd say the fact that the two of them are cousins and a fair bit of time passes between the Chair incident and us picking back up with Zakalwe means you could cast early-twentysomethings that look similar as both of them and then then an ambiguous thirtysomething as Zakalwe who could conceivably be either.
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Nov 29, 2013 11:47
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MikeJF posted:You'd have to cut out a fair bit of the stuff prior to him joining the Culture, then. That's how I always saw it happening (but with a 45-ish actor as the older Zakalwe to make the different appearance even more plausible). Done with a good cast and budget, this could be a great HBO-style series.
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Nov 29, 2013 15:06
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Oh, great! Raw Spirit is finally available on Kindle now. Great read, Iain drives around Scotland while looking for the perfect dram of scotch. Lots about booze, cars, and how awful Bush and Blair are.
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Dec 1, 2013 08:05
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Ok.. so I'm nearing the end of Use of Weapons. There are some great chapters. Some of his technology imaginings are unique and incredible and I've enjoyed them immensely. Some of the action is.. stilted and I would also say some of the things Sma says and does really comes across as being written by a male, simplistic writer. But the way we'll jag off to an entire chapter about when Zalawke went to write poetry on an planet somewhere with a cliched, obvious 'twist' to the end.. Or some other random, descriptive bout where we almost every second chapter leave the main story to pretty much amble around aimlessly for a while.. It's really getting on my nerves. To the extent I probably won't read Banks again after this. He just dribbles for entire paragraphs being descriptive about things we have never seen before, have no relation to the story and feel completely like filler. Something like Neuromancer is all the good stuff with a lot less of the shite. Is this a Banks consistency or is Use of Weapons an anomaly? I'd like to read about more of the Culture and it's tech, but less about soul searching.
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Dec 2, 2013 19:37
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Tony Montana posted:Ok.. so I'm nearing the end of Use of Weapons. Use of Weapons is one of my favorite books but I agree with this. He writes like a man who admires and respects women but doesn't really understand how to write them from their own perspective. quote:But the way we'll jag off to an entire chapter about when Zalawke went to write poetry on an planet somewhere with a cliched, obvious 'twist' to the end.. Or some other random, descriptive bout where we almost every second chapter leave the main story to pretty much amble around aimlessly for a while.. It's really getting on my nerves. To the extent I probably won't read Banks again after this. This I don't agree with - especially the Neuromancer comparison! They're spectacularly different books. Banks probably isn't for you. Banks is a literary writer. You might want to head in the direction of Niven or David Weber or such if you just want to read about space gizmos.
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Dec 2, 2013 19:45
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Do you rub your hands gleefully and say 'oh boy!' when we zoom off to yet another down time chapter? I don't need all action, I like Asimov and I'm actually a bit of a Heinlein freak.. but we're still talking scifi and big ideas with these guys when it's not robots and spaceships. I don't 'just want to read about space gizmos' at all, but I do want to be reading engaging quality prose most of the time and I just can't see many of these filler chapters as it. If you're going to say he's a 'literary writer' then I would say he should be more concerned with some of the quality issues with his literature. Obviously these are my opinions, perceptions and expressions of what I'm looking for. Please don't anyone get butthurt about their pet author. Are his other books like this? edit: Is Gibson a 'literary writer', according to you? Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 19:55
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Gibson is definitely literary, but I think his interests are very different - he cares neither about people nor about technology but about the interface between the two. When I say Banks is literary I mean both that he's a strong writer at the prose level and that I think (in Use of Weapons particularly among the Culture books) he's very concerned with soul-searching, more-so than he is in an action spectacular like Consider Phlebas. I think Banks' writing is consistently strong across Use of Weapons, and I don't think he writes much filler in it. Even if I'm wrong, and forgive me the jibe - if you're a Heinlein freak surely you're used to digesting some dreadful writing on the way to the big ideas. e: If I'd read Use of Weapons at some points in my life as a reader, I would've reacted to it the way you did, so I understand where you're coming from.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:07
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General Battuta posted:Gibson is definitely literary Yeah, on a level that I haven't seen Banks approach in this book so far. Neuromancer posted:And the Flatline aligned the nose of Kuang's sting with the center of the dark below. And dove. Case's sensory input warped with their velocity. His mouth filled with an aching taste of blue. His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a frequency whose name was rain and the sounds of trains, suddenly sprouting a humming forest of hair-fine spines. The spines split, bisected, split again, exponential growth under the dome of the Tessier-Ashpool ice. General Battuta posted:but I think his interests are very different - he cares neither about people nor about technology but about the interface between the two. When I say Banks is literary I mean both that he's a strong writer at the prose level and that I think (in Use of Weapons particularly among the Culture books) he's very concerned with soul-searching, more-so than he is in an action spectacular like Consider Phlebas. You're saying Gibson isn't concerned with the technology? The man that coined the term 'cyberspace'? In the book that security softwares are 'ice'? I do not agree there at all. You said yourself Banks finds it hard to write the female perspective sections, that's a pretty important part of writing diverse prose. However, you also answered my earlier question. I will borrow Consider Phlebas from a library based on that. General Battuta posted:I think Banks' writing is consistently strong across Use of Weapons, and I don't think he writes much filler in it. Even if I'm wrong, and forgive me the jibe - if you're a Heinlein freak surely you're used to digesting some dreadful writing on the way to the big ideas. How long ago did you read it? We tend to forget the stuff worth forgetting and remember the gold. I find Heinlein enjoyable even in the juveniles, which can be extremely dated. I guess I do automatically give him and other a pass on some things because I know they are writing from so long ago. When the published date on a book reads the 50s, I'm usually just impressed it has relevancy at all and probably less critical of some things. General Battuta posted:e: If I'd read Use of Weapons at some points in my life as a reader, I would've reacted to it the way you did, so I understand where you're coming from. Well, I am a reader as are most people who read. Perhaps the OP shouldn't recommend Use of Weapons as a first Banks book, if it requires being a writer yourself to appreciate.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:36
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I don't think Use of Weapons is a writer's book, I just think it might not be for you. There are two reasons you might not be enjoying the book. One of them is structural: the elliptical style and nonlinear narrative isn't engaging you. If that's the case, you might enjoy other Banks more, like Consider Phlebas. I think Phlebas is a much weaker work in some tough-to-define objective sense, but it might be a better fit for you. The other reason may be deeper: you just don't like Banks' project as a writer. If that's the case, and I personally lean this way from what you've said about your tastes, I don't think any of his work will click for you. You can try to frame this as some weakness intrinsic to Banks if you'd prefer. Tony Montana posted:Yeah, on a level that I haven't seen Banks approach in this book so far. I think Gibson has more interesting sentence-by-sentence prose than Banks on average, but that Banks is capable of matching him, and - in a value neutral sense - Banks generally writers warmer, more human material. This means that Gibson prose is a great fit for Gibson interests, and Banks prose is a great fit for Banks interests. quote:You're saying Gibson isn't concerned with the technology? The man that coined the term 'cyberspace'? In the book that security softwares are 'ice'? I do not agree there at all. Gibson doesn't give a poo poo about technology, and don't let him fool you. One of the great myths about Gibson as a writer is that he's a technological visionary or that he's particularly interested in computers or machines. What Gibson cares about, his singular overriding obsession, the thing that makes Neuromancer such a classic and so much of his other work fascinating, is the interface between people and technology. Technology and the street, drugs and the addict, vision and the beholder - Gibson always looks at relationships. Gibson nabbed the term cyberspace from a friend because he thought it was great, and he's always been generous and painstaking about making sure credit goes to him. quote:How long ago did you read it? We tend to forget the stuff worth forgetting and remember the gold. I find Heinlein enjoyable even in the juveniles, which can be extremely dated. I guess I do automatically give him and other a pass on some things because I know they are writing from so long ago. When the published date on a book reads the 50s, I'm usually just impressed it has relevancy at all and probably less critical of some things. I read Use of Weapons last year and Heinlein in my teens. quote:Well, I am a reader as are most people who read. Perhaps the OP shouldn't recommend Use of Weapons as a first Banks book, if it requires being a writer yourself to appreciate. I think Use of Weapons is Banks' strongest work and the best fit for most readers in a place to enjoy Banks...but I think Player of Games is probably an easier intro to the Culture.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:53
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Thank you for your intelligent and insightful replies. I can do non-linear, I did all of Game of Thrones when I was younger. I will return to the final third of Use of Weapons and try and see it with different eyes. \/\/ Sure
Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 21:04
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Tony Montana posted:Thank you for your intelligent and insightful replies.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:12
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I may be opening a Can Of Worms but I don't really think Game of Thrones is non-linear. Sure, the timeline occasionally jumps back (as he switches POVs) but that's more an artifact of having several simultaneous POVs. Lots of books do this, and it only becomes very obvious when the individual timelines get longer (think Wheel of Time where the entirety of book 10 was devoted to various people's reactions to the climax of book 9... or maybe it was 9 and 8, I don't remember). Use Of Weapons' non-linearity is much more explicit in that he jumps from a character's adolescence (or young adult) up to present day in an attempt to weave a story together. It's more akin to flashbacks.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:16
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Look to Windward is also a nice intro to the Culture novels (despite being a loose sequel). Its narrative structure echoes of Use of Weapons a bit, but it's a more accessible read.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:20
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syphon posted:I may be opening a Can Of Worms but I don't really think Game of Thrones is non-linear. I agree actually. It's jumping POVs but the timelines are linear. Hrm.. what other book have I read where it jumps around in time like that.. I read Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan (which isn't) but not Slaughterhouse-Five (which is). poo poo, you might really have a point.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:23
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Tony Montana posted:Are his other books like this? Banks like to experiment with different styles, all of his books have a unique feel to them. If you don't like one, pick another. Use of Weapons is unique in the way that it jumps backwards and forwards in time, all his other books are much more linear (chronologically speaking). Many of his books do however jump back and forth between different characters whose stories only come together at the end (or sometimes deadend abruptly). Consider Phlebas was written like an action movie, and moves from action scene to action scene across some fantastic locales amid a galaxy spanning war. Look to Windward is a pseudo sequel to Consider Phlebas, set hundreds of years later and dealing with the lasting damage that wars cause to societies and people. It trades the actions scenes for a slower, more introspective story dealing with politics, intrigue, and deep personal trauma. Excession is about scheming but well-intentioned god-like machine intelligences trying to fix things that they don't understand. Lots of snarky dialogue, crazy tech, and several milliseconds of superluminal spaceship combat. Several plot threads that come together at the end, but not in the way you'd expect. The Player of Games is about a brilliant but naive culture citizen who is conscripted by Special Circumstances to interfere with the development of a less enlightened civilization. Fairly linear, with one major plot thread that follows the adventures of the slightly befuddled main character as he tries to make sense of a world where the Game is everything. Matter is a slow building story that explores a fantastic artificial world layer by layer, expanding out into the greater universe before suddenly contracting back to a single violent point where one choice makes all the difference in the world. Several plot threads following a trio of royal siblings who have been cast into very different roles as they struggle to survive feudal intrigue, avenge a murdered father, and avert an intergalactic war. Surface Detail is a story about a murdered woman's quest for revenge while in the background an unseen war is fought to determine the fate of the afterlives. Multiple plot threads that are indirectly connected, may seem confusing at times but each thread works as a standalone story. Features the most entertaining sociopathic killing machine you'll ever meet. The Hydrogen Sonata is about Faith and Endings. Leave it for last. Then there's his non-Culture sci-fi books, Against A Dark Background, The Algebraist, Feersum Endjinn (this will give you a headache at first, but it's worth reading). Inversion is a good low fantasy novel if you like swords and crossbows and kings and assassins, two separate plot threads follow the exploits of two individuals who are both advisers and protectors of rival kings. Finally, there's his M-less contemporary fiction which I'm currently working through. Avulsion fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 21:25
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Haha, well a number of those sound highly interesting to me and all of them pique my interest to a degree. I guess I'm not done with Banks yet! Your summaries are great and should be in the OP.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:33
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Tony Montana posted:Haha, well a number of those sound highly interesting to me and all of them pique my interest to a degree. I guess I'm not done with Banks yet! One of the nice things about his books is that there's no real order to them (other than Consider Plebas and Look to Windward) so you can just grab whichever one sounds the most interesting, or whatever happens to be available at your local library, and test it out.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:37
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Avulsion posted:Feersum Endjinn (this will give you a headache at first, but it's worth reading). Ergates is the best. 
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Dec 2, 2013 21:38
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Tony Montana posted:Thank you for your intelligent and insightful replies. I'd definitely suggest you'd at least try either Consider Phlebas for a little simpler experience or The Player of Games for a bit more insight into the Culture as a setting/society, or maybe something outside of the Culture setting, Against a Dark Background (kind of dark, gave me a feeling of post-apocalypse/dystopia), Feersum Endjinn (weird, definitely takes some getting used to, but enjoyable), or The Algebraist (kind of in between the two, I guess.) e: Avulsion said it best, and I would definitely suggest to leave The Hydrogen Sonata last. It's a fitting ending, I feel, and answers many of the questions you're left with after reading his other Culture novels. Taeke fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 21:42
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Taeke posted:Against a Dark Background (kind of dark, gave me a feeling of post-apocalypse/dystopia) Kind of dark? That book makes WH40K seem optimistic.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:51
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A lot of the culture novels often have a large part dedicated to almost an essay on the nature of the culture. e: hell, that's what Inversions is the fart question fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 22:02
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Tony Montana posted:Haha, well a number of those sound highly interesting to me and all of them pique my interest to a degree. I guess I'm not done with Banks yet! Give The Player of Games a go next. I really do think it's the best intro to the Culture series. I'm a rare dissenter in that I don't think Use of Weapons should be read first. But I do think that the last three books should be read last, in order, preferably.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:33
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