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Why do idiot Texans fans think Bridgewater is going to be terrible so the Texans should pick Mettenberger or Murray or McCarron later in the draft to be the QB1? I've thought Bridgewater is a decent enough top QB, way better than Geno Smith, am I wrong?
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Dec 6, 2013 16:46
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b0ng posted:Why do idiot Texans fans think Bridgewater is going to be terrible so the Texans should pick Mettenberger or Murray or McCarron later in the draft to be the QB1? I've thought Bridgewater is a decent enough top QB, way better than Geno Smith, am I wrong? I think for most of them it's less that Bridgewater will be terrible and more that Clowney would be too awesome to pass up (and there's no way Bridgewater would still be available by the time they pick again)?
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Dec 6, 2013 16:49
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Emanuel Collective posted:e: and here's probably the best game of his career. He can hit short reads at least Wow from that stat line you would think he threw at least a couple of balls >20 yards downfield. Maybe it was Miami's DBs or VT WRs or something, but drat. e: His decision making when scrambling and on read-option runs seemed pretty good though. Brannigans Law fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 17:14
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xeria posted:I think for most of them it's less that Bridgewater will be terrible and more that Clowney would be too awesome to pass up (and there's no way Bridgewater would still be available by the time they pick again)? For me, it's get Clowney because the Texans are NOT a year or a piece away from contending again and need rebuilding once again. Might as well build inside out with a Clowney-Watt core on the defensive line (assuming Watt even wants to stay), go for a later round QB like Boyd, (gulp) Carr, or Fales, and if all else fails put Keenum through Blitz Pickup School and/or draft Mariota or go to free agency next year. dirty shrimp money fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 18:19
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Korranus posted:For me, it's get Clowney because the Texans are NOT a year or a piece away from contending again and need rebuilding once again. Might as well build inside out with a Clowney-Watt core on the defensive line (assuming Watt even wants to stay), go for a later round QB like Boyd, (gulp) Carr, or Fales, and if all else fails put Keenum through Blitz Pickup School and/or draft Mariota or go to free agency next year. They are almost the same team that made playoffs runs the past two seasons. They are a qb away from probably being good again. They need to replace a few guys but they don't need to enter rebuilding mode. They have one of the best defensive players in the league and they got swept by the jaguars. Clowney doesn't make them a playoff team next year if they don't get a qb.
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Dec 6, 2013 18:31
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b0ng posted:Why do idiot Texans fans think Bridgewater is going to be terrible so the Texans should pick Mettenberger or Murray or McCarron later in the draft to be the QB1? I've thought Bridgewater is a decent enough top QB, way better than Geno Smith, am I wrong? Gonna assume you're talking about non-SA Texans fans, but I just really, really want Clowney on that line with Watt due to BPA.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:12
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I have a question for Texans fans clamoring for Clowney. If you knew you were getting a Stafford-level QB in Bridgewater, would you still feel the same way? Or would you want Bridgewater at that point?
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Dec 6, 2013 19:20
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Sataere posted:I have a question for Texans fans clamoring for Clowney. If you knew you were getting a Stafford-level QB in Bridgewater, would you still feel the same way? Or would you want Bridgewater at that point? Talent but inconsistent play? I wouldn't mind, I guess, but maybe not at #1 overall when a guy like Clowney is on the board.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:23
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I would take Matthew Stafford over Clowney in a millisecond.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:28
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Kirios posted:I would take Matthew Stafford over Clowney in a millisecond. Same
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Dec 6, 2013 19:31
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Sataere posted:I have a question for Texans fans clamoring for Clowney. If you knew you were getting a Stafford-level QB in Bridgewater, would you still feel the same way? Or would you want Bridgewater at that point? A guy like Stafford who only throws for billions of yards? Yeah I'd take that #1 overall over Clowney. When I say "idiot" Texans fans, I'm usually talking about the dildos that hang out in newspaper comments or on team boards.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:32
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You take Stafford over Clowney 100 out of 100 times
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Dec 6, 2013 19:33
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I also view Teddy Bridgewater as a Matthew Stafford level of talent so that's why it would be extremely foolish to pass on him and get Clowney.
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Dec 6, 2013 19:34
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IDK, Stafford has a great arm but inconsistent accuracy so directing comparing him with Bridgewater is a bit much. Bridgewater reminds me more of Matt Ryan: accurate at short and intermediate but doesn't have a great deep ball and requires a lot of talent at skill positions; doesn't elevate an offense by himself. EDIT: For the record I'd be loving ecstatic with Bridgewater, I just really want Clowney on that line. bhsman fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 19:38
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This line of discussion creates a fun game! Regular season stats, 2009-2013: Player A: 7.0 YPA, 6.6 AYPA, 4.5 TD%, 2.9 INT%, 84.2 passer rating Player B: 7.7 YPA, 7.5 AYPA, 4.3 TD%, 2.4 INT%, 92.2 passer rating Player A: Matthew Stafford Player B: Matt Schaub I've banged this drum a lot before, but Stafford is dramatically overrated as a player because he racks up pretty counting stats from throwing the ball a billion times. In 2012, what is usually considered his worst year to date, he broke Drew Bledsoe's record for pass attempts in a season. Not to mention that the thought experiment taking a Stafford-level talent at QB first overall (which we have no way of knowing if Bridgewater would be considered, yet) over Clowney presumes a Stafford-level outcome, which is fallacious to say the least.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:00
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I picked Stafford specifically because he is not in that top tier of QB, but he is definitely near the top of the second tier of quarterbacks in the NFL. He can win games, but also has some consistency issues and bad habits. Listening to some of you guys talk about Clowney, it almost seemed like you would pass on Peyton Manning to draft him, which would be ridiculous. I was just trying to gauge at what the cutoff is for you on a quarterback prospect. Sataere fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 20:01
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bhsman posted:IDK, Stafford has a great arm but inconsistent accuracy so directing comparing him with Bridgewater is a bit much. Bridgewater reminds me more of Matt Ryan: accurate at short and intermediate but doesn't have a great deep ball and requires a lot of talent at skill positions; doesn't elevate an offense by himself. I'd also take Matt Ryan over Clowney.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:05
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Sataere posted:I was just trying to gauge at what the cutoff is for you on a quarterback prospect. I guess Andrew Luck or Cam Newton (in terms of a prospect, not how they play now) is what I would judge a #1 overall QB as.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:05
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Grozz Nuy posted:This line of discussion creates a fun game! So are you going to tell me Matt Schaub is a better quarterback than Matthew Stafford? Because if so I'm going to laugh at you and discredit your opinion from now on. Go on, please, tell me that.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:06
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LB Khalil Mack wins Jack Lambert award for best linebacker: http://www.ubbulls.com/sports/fball/2013-14/releases/20131206p3v1d4 First non-BCS player to win the award (of course it was named after a former Kent State alum). Mack could leap frog Barr as the top LB on the board with a big Senior Bowl and/or combine workout. Mel Kiper now has him as his #5 overall prospect.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:08
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Kirios posted:So are you going to tell me Matt Schaub is a better quarterback than Matthew Stafford? Because if so I'm going to laugh at you and discredit your opinion from now on. Go on, please, tell me that. Maybe you should step away from the QB insanity-ledge, Mr. "I bought a Keenum avatar at the drop of a hat"
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Dec 6, 2013 20:08
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Kirios posted:I'd also take Matt Ryan over Clowney. See, now that's a caliber of player where I would actually start to buy this argument. But again, this presumes both that Bridgewater is a Matt Ryan-level talent and also that this would translate directly into becoming a Matt Ryan-esque player in the NFL, which are both huge logical leaps. I just think it's funny to see statements like 'Matt Schaub is a bum, what we need is a guy like Stafford!' when with the exception of this year Schaub has been demonstrably better than Stafford for the duration of the latter's career. At Schaub's age I don't entirely dismiss the notion that they should move on from him, but I think there's a lot of underestimation of just how good he was for Houston for several years and that the specific Stafford counterexample is a pretty goofy. Kirios posted:So are you going to tell me Matt Schaub is a better quarterback than Matthew Stafford? Because if so I'm going to laugh at you and discredit your opinion from now on. Go on, please, tell me that. Right now, at this moment? Obviously not. Stafford's career track record isn't nearly as good as a lot of casual fans think it is though, and Schaub's is much better. Without the single best WR in the game by leaps and bounds, I might add.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:09
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1. The avatar is fantastic and you shut your mouth bhsman. 2. The avatar + text combo is turning out to be more correct than you and I could have even guessed. 3. Matt Stafford is 25, Schaub is 32 and on the downswing of his career. Grozz Nuy, to pull stats like that without any context behind them, is at the very least being extremely disingenuous.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:10
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Kirios posted:1. The avatar is fantastic and you shut your mouth bhsman. It owns, but you have to admit it was pretty impulsive.  You've also been the most extreme among Texans posters in wanting a QB, I'm just saying you should be open to the possibility of us not getting one with pick 1-1.quote:3. Matt Stafford is 25, Schaub is 32 and on the downswing of his career. Grozz Nuy, to pull stats like that without any context behind them, is at the very least being extremely disingenuous. How is that disingenuous?
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Dec 6, 2013 20:13
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Grozz Nuy posted:This line of discussion creates a fun game! That wasn't the purpose of my question. My question was about expectation and what value you would require to pass on a prospect of Clowney's caliber. It is easy to say that you aren't guaranteed a certain level of production from Bridgewater, but the same holds true of Clowney. When regarding them, their floors and ceilings need to be considered. I was not making a sweeping judgement, proclaiming Bridgewater the next Stafford. Also, those stats are nice enough in a vacuum, but what were those teams ranks in rushing over that time span? How was their defensive production? How often were they playing from behind? Because it is easy to be an efficient quarterback with the best running game in the NFL. It's a lot harder when you play on the Lions.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:13
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Kirios posted:1. The avatar is fantastic and you shut your mouth bhsman. Do you think Stafford is going to get much better after his fifth season in the league? I mean, I suppose Tom Brady and Alex Smith did it but in the modern NFL usually by this stage in their careers you pretty much know who guys are. My point was not that the Texans should hold onto a 32-year-old Schaub, but if they draft Bridgewater over Clowney and he turns out to be a player of roughly the same quality that Stafford has been to date... then they're pretty much back to where they were in 2010 in terms of QB play, if not a little worse.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:15
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Player C: 7.2 YPA, 6.5 AYPA, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 INT%, 83.5 QB Rating Guess I shouldn't want Jay Cutler either 
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Dec 6, 2013 20:15
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Intruder posted:Player C: 7.2 YPA, 6.5 AYPA, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 INT%, 83.5 QB Rating There's no way he leaves Chicago anyway, but that's one where you could make a reasonable argument for team context IMO because Cutler has had garbage blocking and offensive coaching for pretty much his entire time on the Bears. (I also think TFF overrates Cutler a bit though, for the record)
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Dec 6, 2013 20:17
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Intruder posted:Player C: 7.2 YPA, 6.5 AYPA, 4.6 TD%, 3.4 INT%, 83.5 QB Rating I mean to be fair a 30 year old Cutler isn't really a long term solution for the Texans either.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:17
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bhsman posted:It owns, but you have to admit it was pretty impulsive. You're correct, I am the most extreme Texans poster that wants a QB. The Colts shouldn't be the only team that gets to a tank a year, draft a top tier QB talent, and then be good right afterwards. But seriously, it's mostly because I consider Bridgewater to be a great quarterback talent. He's not in the Andrew Luck level, but he compares favorably in physical and mental skillset to just about any other quarterback this decade. You can't expect an Andrew Luck level talent every single year...just be glad we have a quarterback in this draft that is worthy of the #1 pick. I'm sure Chiefs fans would be THRILLED if there was a Bridgewater in last year's draft.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:18
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Is he really 30? Ok then, withdrawn
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Dec 6, 2013 20:18
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Kirios posted:But seriously, it's mostly because I consider Bridgewater to be a great quarterback talent. He's not in the Andrew Luck level, but he compares favorably in physical and mental skillset to just about any other quarterback this decade. You can't expect an Andrew Luck level talent every single year...just be glad we have a quarterback in this draft that is worthy of the #1 pick. I'm sure Chiefs fans would be THRILLED if there was a Bridgewater in last year's draft. And I like said, I'd love to have Bridgewater but just value Clowney a bit more. It's cool, mang, we just want what's good for the team in different ways. 
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Dec 6, 2013 20:20
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Intruder posted:Is he really 30? Ok then, withdrawn Cutler's age is pretty much the only thing that makes resigning him come even close to being a question.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:20
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Kirios posted:I'm sure Chiefs fans would be THRILLED if there was a Bridgewater in last year's draft. Chiefs fans would have been excited to get Schaub too (at the time, probably not Schaub now), your team is a mess but goddamn Brady Quinn and Matt Cassel. Parmesan Basil isn't as alone as he should be amongst some fans in still wanting Geno Smith even after seeing what he's done.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:35
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Bridgewater has a better arm than people are giving him credit for right now. I've seen him make every required NFL throw, same as I did with Stafford coming out of Georgia.
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Dec 6, 2013 20:50
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I kinda want to see the Texans take a 7th/UDFA flier on Connor Shaw too
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Dec 6, 2013 20:59
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Grittybeard posted:Chiefs fans would have been excited to get Schaub too (at the time, probably not Schaub now), your team is a mess but goddamn Brady Quinn and Matt Cassel. Parmesan Basil isn't as alone as he should be amongst some fans in still wanting Geno Smith even after seeing what he's done. I just feel sorry for the kid at this point.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:00
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Elotana posted:I kinda want to see the Texans take a 7th/UDFA flier on Connor Shaw too Same, actually.
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Dec 6, 2013 21:07
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The problem with the whole Clowney/Bridgewater debate is that its taking place in a vaccuum that the draft doesn't take place in. If a team like Houston believes a guy like Bridgewater has, say, a 60% chance of reaching a Matt Ryan/Matthew Stafford level, and no other quarterback in the draft comes close, then you probably take Bridgewater. But if someone like, say, AJ McCarron has a 40% chance of being a Matt Ryan-level quarterback, your best bet is taking the surefire talent in Clowney and rolling the dice with McCarronBrannigans Law posted:Wow from that stat line you would think he threw at least a couple of balls >20 yards downfield. Unfortunately, his decision making in the pocket is jaw-droppingly bad. I'm talking "throw into quadruple coverage with regularity" bad. There IS talent there, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near an NFL field for a couple years. Emanuel Collective fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 6, 2013 |
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Dec 6, 2013 22:37
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Not to mention Case is a servicable starter for a season or two, you could sit a project QB for a couple seasons behind him.
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Dec 6, 2013 22:40
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