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Barudak posted:Not a spoiler; FF7 has the most daring narrative construction in video games and would give most books a run for their money.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:26
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Mustach posted:I don't know about it being the most, but I do agree with you. I don't even want a remake, just a retranslation by Alexander O. Smith and Joseph Reeder like all of the games that came after it (until XIII). Sure, just... don't make them talk in Shakespearean English, please. VII in that style would be a massive headache.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:28
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Krad posted:Sure, just... don't make them talk in Shakespearean English, please. VII in that style would be a massive headache. They literally only did that for those games and nothing else they've translated. It is a stylistic decision, not their default style.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:30
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ImpAtom posted:They literally only did that for those games and nothing else they've translated. It is a stylistic decision, not their default style. They're kinda threatening to have Versus be like that, no? That would be absolutely awful. ImpAtom posted:That isn't the kind of thing you assign to an untrained intern and not have it coming out looking like complete and utter poo poo. Can it look more poo poo than low res backgrounds on HD displays?
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Dec 10, 2013 03:32
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Well...he thinks he is, which counts for something. It's presented as such for like 80% of the game so it still works in the context of your point.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:33
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Barudak posted:[spoiler] Also not a spoiler; you either don't read enough or you read really, really bad fiction.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:34
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Mr. Maltose posted:X-2 is the most optimistic FF because after centuries of literally universal worship in a death cult Society at Large just wants to Fixed that for you. X-2 is frustrating. I agree that much of the story is mind-numbingly stupid (even for a FF game), and the female leads are there for exploitation rather than for presenting strong female leads, but I also agree is had a pretty fun battle system. What really makes it frustrating is that you don't actually spend all that much time battling! That game is like 15% cutscenes filled with irritating characters being obnoxious (I'm looking squarely at you, Brother), 10% battles, and 75% horrible horrible minigames. It's like they looked at FFX and said, "you know what we need to be absolutely certain we carry over to the sequel? The horrible minigames that everyone abhorred. Except we need to make them worse! Turn that blitzball game into a dull team manager sim! Now let's add a sidequest where you need to talk to everyone in the world and give them the correct answer out of a totally random 3 options!" Ugh.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:35
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Tae posted:What the FF7 LP has told me is that even people that played the game completely forgot the plot of the game, most commonly attributing Tifa and Aeris with the opposite personalities (Tifa is the sweet, nice girl while Aeris is the tomboy). I wouldn't call Aeris a tomboy, if anything she's more like the party's more experienced older sister.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:36
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ImpAtom posted:They literally only did that for those games and nothing else they've translated. It is a stylistic decision, not their default style. Calaveron posted:Can it look more poo poo than low res backgrounds on HD displays?
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Dec 10, 2013 03:40
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FFVII's been on a real hype seesaw for over a decade and probably won't stop for the foreseeable future, so hyperbole in both directions is part and parcel of any conversation involving it. Better than most books is a loving ridiculous statement, nonetheless. What, me? I never stopped loving it, soundtrack especially. Anxious Heart 
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Dec 10, 2013 03:42
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1st AD posted:Also not a spoiler; you either don't read enough or you read really, really bad fiction. Well now, consider it from this angle--Final Fantasy is probably the first example of a game that really HID its story. I mean, it was a matter of the gameplay to go and hunt out some rather critical details, some of which were pretty tough to find. You'd be left with gaping mysteries if you didn't go explore the weird caves out in the wilderness or go around in your submarine. It gave narrative consequence to sidequesting, and also allowed plot hooks in the story to encourage players to explore the environment more. In fact, FF7 has a LOT of optional content. All of Yuffie, all of Wutai, all of Goganga, all of Vincent and his subplot, all of Zack's true fate and the true story of what happened five years ago and even the true origins of Hojo and Sephiroth--these are all hidden in parts of the world that you have to seek out. For the first time, possibly ever, the actual scope of the story was up to you, the reader and consumer of the narrative, to discover. It's an interesting experiment in storytelling, and games like Dark Souls have demonstrated that it is a concept that can have rousing success.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:42
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Aeris always struck me more as the sort of girl who's like super religious, but then she takes you home and it turns out she's into some really freaky poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:44
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Schwartzcough posted:Fixed that for you. X-2 is frustrating. I agree that much of the story is mind-numbingly stupid (even for a FF game), and the female leads are there for exploitation rather than for presenting strong female leads, but I also agree is had a pretty fun battle system. What really makes it frustrating is that you don't actually spend all that much time battling! That game is like 15% cutscenes filled with irritating characters being obnoxious (I'm looking squarely at you, Brother), 10% battles, and 75% horrible horrible minigames. It's like they looked at FFX and said, "you know what we need to be absolutely certain we carry over to the sequel? The horrible minigames that everyone abhorred. Except we need to make them worse! Turn that blitzball game into a dull team manager sim! Now let's add a sidequest where you need to talk to everyone in the world and give them the correct answer out of a totally random 3 options!" Ugh. Actually both sides of the civil war are fringe elements and more people care about going to the Calm Lands Summoner Memorial Amusement Mile. The entire game's theme was letting go of past tragedies because obsessing over it impedes healing.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:46
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Fister Roboto posted:Aeris always struck me more as the sort of girl who's like super religious, but then she takes you home and it turns out she's into some really freaky poo poo. Super Religious? She's basically the most underhanded person on the cast. She's like the first one to suggest underhanded tactics and generally spends her time being a parody of the typical "Flowery-caster-good-girl."
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Dec 10, 2013 03:48
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Barudak posted:Not a spoiler; FF7 has the most daring narrative construction in video games and would give most books a run for their money. The thing I like is how much that reveal ends up changing your perspective on the events of the early game on subsequent replays of the game. Even on a game mechanics-level, some things suddenly make a lot more sense. Like if Cloud is supposed to be this super-elite 1st Class ex-SOLDIER operative on par with Sephiroth... why does he start the game at only level 7? Because he's not! He's just a faceless grunt, a low-ranking nobody, and given all the phsyical and mental trauma he's suffered in the years prior to the start of the game, it's a miracle he can even form a coherent sentence, let alone participate in a terrorist attack against his former employers. W.T. Fits fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2013 03:51
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Schwartzcough posted:Fixed that for you. X-2 is frustrating. I agree that much of the story is mind-numbingly stupid (even for a FF game), and the female leads are there for exploitation rather than for presenting strong female leads, but I also agree is had a pretty fun battle system. What really makes it frustrating is that you don't actually spend all that much time battling! That game is like 15% cutscenes filled with irritating characters being obnoxious (I'm looking squarely at you, Brother), 10% battles, and 75% horrible horrible minigames. It's like they looked at FFX and said, "you know what we need to be absolutely certain we carry over to the sequel? The horrible minigames that everyone abhorred. Except we need to make them worse! Turn that blitzball game into a dull team manager sim! Now let's add a sidequest where you need to talk to everyone in the world and give them the correct answer out of a totally random 3 options!" Ugh. Are you as excited for the remaster as I am? The coliseum looks to be tons of fun. I hear you can even win Mascot and a bunch of other rare stuff from fighting battles there, so you don't need to go through a lot of the minigames anymore.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:53
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Well now, consider it from this angle--Final Fantasy is probably the first example of a game that really HID its story. I mean, it was a matter of the gameplay to go and hunt out some rather critical details, some of which were pretty tough to find. You'd be left with gaping mysteries if you didn't go explore the weird caves out in the wilderness or go around in your submarine. It gave narrative consequence to sidequesting, and also allowed plot hooks in the story to encourage players to explore the environment more. "Possibly ever?" You're overselling the poo poo out of this, especially considering FF6 did a lot of the same things, and "the scope of the story being up to you" being a staple of WRPGs. It has a lot of optional content, but having optional content that was plot-relevant was not some revolutionary new concept that FF7 invented. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 04:04
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Super Religious? She's basically the most underhanded person on the cast. She's like the first one to suggest underhanded tactics and generally spends her time being a parody of the typical "Flowery-caster-good-girl." Yeah, but she's always ultimately guided by a higher power. She's kind of like a good version of Brother Justin on "Carnivale." Or wait, no, she's not at all - I'm just currently watching "Carnivale."
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Dec 10, 2013 04:13
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Defiance Industries posted:"Possibly ever?" You're overselling the poo poo out of this, especially considering FF6 did a lot of the same things, and "the scope of the story being up to you" being a staple of WRPGs. It has a lot of optional content, but having optional content that was plot-relevant was not some revolutionary new concept that FF7 invented. Ultima 4 has all that and a morality system!
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Dec 10, 2013 04:15
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Well now, consider it from this angle--Final Fantasy is probably the first example of a game that really HID its story. I mean, it was a matter of the gameplay to go and hunt out some rather critical details, some of which were pretty tough to find. You'd be left with gaping mysteries if you didn't go explore the weird caves out in the wilderness or go around in your submarine. It gave narrative consequence to sidequesting, and also allowed plot hooks in the story to encourage players to explore the environment more. In FF6 you can go get the airship and go straight to Kefka's tower, skipping over almost the entire cast and everything that's been going on since Kefka ruined the world. If you don't seek that out then you go beat Kefka with very few characters and that's the end of things. Even Dragon Quest 4 had hidden aspects of the game's story like the dreams that let you see Rosa and Psaro as well as what happens to her and why Psaro becomes so hellbent on wiping out humans. W.T. Fits posted:The thing I like is how much that reveal ends up changing your perspective on the events of the early game one subsequent replays of the game. Even on a game mechanics-level, some things suddenly make a lot more sense. It also explains why Rufus has never heard of him when Cloud introduces himself. Surely the son of the president of Shinra would have some idea about the members of his company's small elite team of demi-god murder machines. He sure as hell knew who Sephiroth was.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:18
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Defiance Industries posted:"Possibly ever?" You're overselling the poo poo out of this, especially considering FF6 did a lot of the same things, and "the scope of the story being up to you" being a staple of WRPGs. It has a lot of optional content, but having optional content that was plot-relevant was not some revolutionary new concept that FF7 invented. That's a good point and I concede to it.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:26
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Can someone repost that hilarious picture of Lightening where she scowling right at the screen in the weird costume with the giant head and tiny body from earlier in the thread? I know this is most pictures of Lightening in 13-3, but this one was just the most pronounced. I think the costume had a lot of straps or something maybe?
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Dec 10, 2013 04:41
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dude789 posted:Can someone repost that hilarious picture of Lightening where she scowling right at the screen in the weird costume with the giant head and tiny body from earlier in the thread? I know this is most pictures of Lightening in 13-3, but this one was just the most pronounced. I think the costume had a lot of straps or something maybe? Here you go. 
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Dec 10, 2013 05:15
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Defiance Industries posted:Here you go. While this one is amazing, I was looking for the in game version. I think it was one of the earlier costumes revealed.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:23
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Could it be this one? I think it's partly pre-release, but it didn't get that much better.Squallege posted:
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Dec 10, 2013 05:31
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pichupal posted:Could it be this one? I think it's partly pre-release, but it didn't get that much better. I think that might be the right outfit, but she's literally scowling straight at the screen and looks angrier.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:38
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Defiance Industries posted:"Possibly ever?" You're overselling the poo poo out of this, especially considering FF6 did a lot of the same things, and "the scope of the story being up to you" being a staple of WRPGs. It has a lot of optional content, but having optional content that was plot-relevant was not some revolutionary new concept that FF7 invented. That's true to an extent, but one of the major differences is that most WRPGs focused on creating a "build your own adventure" concept, where you might have Wally the Wizard and Bob the Barbarian as two different PCs and Wally becomes the archmage of the school of wizardry while Bob becomes a janitor. Different players have different canonical adventures. FF7 implies that there is a single truth, but it provides unreliable narrators to give you that truth. This means that a lot of people played through the story, got part of the story and then found out about the stuff that they missed and they had to reevaluate what they knew about the game. It's not like nobody ever did it before but it was pretty cool for a big budget game of its time and it's probably one of the better examples of this technique used well in the history of gaming.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:41
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BottledBodhisvata posted:This is why I will consistently say that the guys who work at Atlus writing the SMT games are incredibly good game writers. These games have their problems, but they're extremely good at pacing. Persona 4 is written like a cliffhangery TV serial, and because of that, I actually knew what the gently caress was going on at all times.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:43
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BottledBodhisvata posted:In fact, FF7 has a LOT of optional content. All of Yuffie, all of Wutai, all of Goganga, all of Vincent and his subplot, all of Zack's true fate and the true story of what happened five years ago and even the true origins of Hojo and Sephiroth--these are all hidden in parts of the world that you have to seek out. For the first time, possibly ever, the actual scope of the story was up to you, the reader and consumer of the narrative, to discover. It's an interesting experiment in storytelling, and games like Dark Souls have demonstrated that it is a concept that can have rousing success. The very first time I played through FFVII I completely missed Wutai, and by the time I found it on disc three I guess it doesn't trigger the appropriate flags because nothing happened.
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Dec 10, 2013 05:47
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Did somebody say X-2?
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Dec 10, 2013 05:59
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dude789 posted:Can someone repost that hilarious picture of Lightening where she scowling right at the screen in the weird costume with the giant head and tiny body from earlier in the thread? I know this is most pictures of Lightening in 13-3, but this one was just the most pronounced. I think the costume had a lot of straps or something maybe? Maybe one of these surly seductresses? Pesky Splinter posted:Apropos of nothing, FFXIII:LR Catwalk time:
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Dec 10, 2013 06:09
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NovemberMike posted:That's true to an extent, but one of the major differences is that most WRPGs focused on creating a "build your own adventure" concept, where you might have Wally the Wizard and Bob the Barbarian as two different PCs and Wally becomes the archmage of the school of wizardry while Bob becomes a janitor. Different players have different canonical adventures. FF7 implies that there is a single truth, but it provides unreliable narrators to give you that truth. This means that a lot of people played through the story, got part of the story and then found out about the stuff that they missed and they had to reevaluate what they knew about the game. It's not like nobody ever did it before but it was pretty cool for a big budget game of its time and it's probably one of the better examples of this technique used well in the history of gaming. I was thinking of Fallout as an example because it came out around the same time, and "a lot of people played through the story, got part of the story and then found out about the stuff they missed" is totally applicable in much the same way. Most of the good WRPGs from around that era not only gave you the freedom to decide the way your character went, but also hid major stuff about the world if you cared to look for it. A good example in Fallout is how putting together the Master's backstory is completely and totally optional, and the first time you played through you might have thought he was just some weird mutant.
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Dec 10, 2013 06:13
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Squallege posted:Did somebody say X-2? This outfit is pretty sensible in hindsight.
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Dec 10, 2013 06:38
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MonsieurChoc posted:Everyone who worked on Tactics Ogre has now left Square. We'll never get the March of the Black Queen remake I wanted, or a new game in the Ogre series. Didn't they pull a bunch of people from outside of Square together to make the remake? I mean sure, Square itself has no talent, but they're capable of gathering talent when they really want to. I really want them to do it again to make another Ogre Battle game. That Tactics Ogre remake was just too good.
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Dec 10, 2013 07:38
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Barudak posted:Not a spoiler; FF7 has the most daring narrative construction in video games and would give most books a run for their money. It'd be way more accurate to say that FF7 has a great video game plot. That's not a knock against it or anything, a lot of the things it does either wouldn't work as well or straight up lose all impact in any other presentation. Trying to compare it to novels is apples and oranges. EDIT: A good example would be Cloud's first flashback where you have an AI controlled Sephiroth in your party. In a book you could read about how strong Sephiroth is. In a movie you could watch him do some cool things. But in a video game you can see how vastly overpowered he is in straight up numerical terms, especially in comparison to how pathetic Cloud (who you can actually control) is. And of course the big reveal loses a lot of its punch when you're not self-identifying with Cloud as the player character. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 07:44
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Squallege posted:Did somebody say X-2? Holy hell that looks like absolute poo poo. Please tell me that's a bad attempt at photoshop. How did they gently caress up the Brotherhood so much? Why is the outfit blending into her loving skin? How are the original PS2 graphics better than this? I staunchly defend X-2 on the grounds that it had excellent character development and a coherent, well-presented, overarching theme (something XIII is in desperate need of). I wouldn't call the characters shining examples of strong, female leads, but I think they do an excellent job nevertheless. Yuna learns to stand up for herself and live her life how she wants, Rikku...is admittedly worse than her X counterpart but she offers a nice contrast for the group an Payne is just awesome. Seriously for an original character who has never appeared before, Payne is loving fantastic. Combined with the battle system, this makes the rest FFX-2's bullshit palatable. And I hate to defend the character design, but you should remember that Spira is, for the most part, a pretty tropical place.
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Dec 10, 2013 08:45
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I really have to make an account to play FFVIII on steam? What the hell? And the account creation keeps giving me an error 
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Dec 10, 2013 08:49
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SSNeoman posted:Holy hell that looks like absolute poo poo. Please tell me that's a bad attempt at photoshop. Because it's a bad photo. Come on dude. Does the text all over the screen not betray that isn't an actual HD in-game screenshot? A lot of the stuff like the outfit blending in is because it's an extremely blurry screencap which is itself being grabbed from another (Youtube compressed) source. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 08:52
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The problem with FF3 is that the DS version sucks, and the NES version is one of those old old NES FFs where the battle screen is just a black background, and there's nothing in between.Mr. Maltose posted:X-2 is the most optimistic FF because after centuries of literally universal worship in a death cult Society at Large just wants to have fun and be free. I did think it's a bit funny that "religion is over" is symbolized by changing the main character's long flowy dress into short shorts with a hint of her butt spilling out THE AWESOME GHOST fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 09:04
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I did think it's a bit funny that "religion is over" is symbolized by changing the main character's long flowy dress into short shorts with a hint of her butt spilling out Save the world. Go on. Do it. Then try to resist the urge to wear bootyshorts all the time because you can and no one can say anything because you saved the world. 
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