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That mechanic would be a lot better if it were timing rather than mashing based. I think the mechanic is good though, it feels empowering to do a 4 second stun vs a creature, and feels crappy to get hit by a 4 second stun. The implementation means that it doesn't feel weird when CC has diminished base effects on characters rather than monsters.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:31
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Waterbed posted:That mechanic would be a lot better if it were timing rather than mashing based. Why would you want to add QTEs to the combat in an MMO?
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Dec 12, 2013 00:45
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People that complain about the stun-brake mechanic, should wait until they actually play the game. It is way worse than what you guys imagine.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:45
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Grouchy Smurf posted:People that complain about the stun-brake mechanic, should wait until they actually play the game. Seconded, its seriously bad.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:12
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Uhrm posted:Why would you want to add QTEs to the combat in an MMO? Well it's already a QTE, it would just be a less bad QTE. The core idea behind is it adds an understandable mechanic as to why CC is shorter in PVP, and it feels better than just being stunned for whatever amount of seconds. It's a good bridge between the two. So basically the idea is make the actually bad part of it (mashing like a dumblord in CC) less bad. Make it so there's an earliest break point, and if you hit it as soon as you break past that point, you break the CC. You can make it macroable, or you can mash it out. The idea here is make it easier to do while still keeping the core "it adds invisible counterplay that secretly makes CC less frustrating in PvP and very easy to understand". This is of course, hoping that Carbine implemented it for these reasons. anime was right fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 01:16
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Waterbed posted:Well it's already a QTE, it would just be a less bad QTE. It's an odd mechanic, but I can imagine the design process was entirely born from the simple concept: People do not like losing control. Stuns in all games are frustrating, they represent a 100% loss of control. You can't do a single thing - UNLESS you bring some form of stun break, or ANTI-stun. People remember the PvP trinkets in WoW, they were a chance to remove a stun - then suffer through a cooldown when you get stunned again. What Wildstar is doing, is making sure that control isn't lost - instead, it's transferred. You may have lost control of you character, but you have gained control over how long that stun will last. It isn't a perfect science, but the idea that the primary player frustration with a mechanic like a stun is based off control, they have managed to address the concept of no longer losing 'complete' control.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:15
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a cock shaped fruit posted:What Wildstar is doing, is making sure that control isn't lost - instead, it's transferred. You may have lost control of you character, but you have gained control over how long that stun will last. It isn't a perfect science, but the idea that the primary player frustration with a mechanic like a stun is based off control, they have managed to address the concept of no longer losing 'complete' control. Pretty sure this sounds just like how Champions Online handles stuns and holds. It's kind of awful there, you mash a key to make the gauge go down faster, slightly better than being able to do nothing, but still kind of an 'ugh, again' kind of mechanic.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:33
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The quality of the Dev Speak videos really is exceptional. Each one just hooks me into the game further, even though I promised myself I wouldn't get over-hyped. drat. Engineer is definitely going to be my first tank class.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:50
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BadLlama posted:Let's be real here, too much CC really is horrible and completely un-fun to play with, just like no CC turns it into an un-fun who can get bigger numbers first game. I hope they find a good balance. Pretty much anything is better than "mash a button to get out of cc." It's not hard to find a good balance without such a dumb thrown together mechanic. Even if it was timing based that'd just take you out of game. Hey you're kiting around and shooting poo poo at this guy and he stunned you, click when the circles pop up to get out of it!
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Dec 12, 2013 03:12
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Grouchy Smurf posted:People that complain about the stun-brake mechanic, should wait until they actually play the game.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:15
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a cock shaped fruit posted:It's an odd mechanic, but I can imagine the design process was entirely born from the simple concept: People do not like losing control. You'll notice that for the most part people are only complaining about stun though. Their variations on the other CC types are great! This one happens to be even more annoying than waiting out a full duration stun though, which is sort of remarkable in itself.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:40
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THE PWNER posted:Pretty much anything is better than "mash a button to get out of cc." This is true. But in this case it goes a level deeper because "mash a button to get out of cc" is better than "Be stunned and wait for your turn to fight back." I am not saying that this system is the solution to the issue with "CC is the most frustrating thing ever" but the fact that it exists at all shows that developers, in particular the Wildstar guys, are aware that people don't like it at all and are trying to resolve it. hampig posted:You'll notice that for the most part people are only complaining about stun though. Their variations on the other CC types are great! Oh absolutely! the disarm mechanic, tied in with the fact you can sprint AND dash in this game is brilliant, and it strikes the perfect cord of "Giving the player (VICTIM) interaction to dampen the effect of the player (ATTACKER)." It's rewarding gameplay in the purest sense. Because honestly, we've all played MMO's and we all know that lovely feeling you get when you are stunned, and mere seconds feel like an eternity and you are watching your health bar drain, and you wish there was literally ANYTHING you could do - no matter how ridiculous. a cock shaped fruit fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 03:43
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a cock shaped fruit posted:This is true. But in this case it goes a level deeper because "mash a button to get out of cc" is better than "Be stunned and wait for your turn to fight back." It's not a level deeper, it's just an annoying way to make stuns last less time in PvP. Smashing a button is dumb and pointless and strictly better than not button mashing, why not just make the CC shorter and skip the dumb mashing. Getting your weapon is a cool mechanic for sure and is not even close to button mashing out of stun in implementation. Am I the only one that doesn't get a lovely feeling when stunned? It's an obstacle you have to plan around. It provides great give and take (provided they can't be chained, anyway). I usually feel good coming out of a stun because it means I took the necessary precautions to not have it end my fight. Luminous posted:On the other hand, I'd find it a lot more interesting if they gave certain skills a secondary behavior for reducing or removing stuns and putting that skill on cooldown (or on a reduced cooldown). This gives a means of escape, but it has a trade-off that requires actual thought and that doesn't just serve as an immediate nerf to another person's skill set. I actually like this idea a good bit. You can burn some of your more powerful attacks to get out of the stun. You get out a bit earlier but have to wait on your abilities to run a cooldown. On the other hand it's kind of nonsensical. Bashez fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 04:24
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Bashez posted:Am I the only one that doesn't get a lovely feeling when stunned? It's an obstacle you have to plan around. It provides great give and take (provided they can't be chained, anyway). I usually feel good coming out of a stun because it means I took the necessary precautions to not have it end my fight. Not the only one, but I would confidently call you in the minority. And generally I am not saying it's an ideal system - it's just a step in the right direction from a game development standpoint and I hope more devs take note. a cock shaped fruit fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 04:32
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The stun break mechanic is okay, they just need to decrease the amount of mashing since it sometimes requires so much that you might as well just wait out the CC.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:43
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BadLlama posted:Let's be real here, too much CC really is horrible and completely un-fun to play with, just like no CC turns it into an un-fun who can get bigger numbers first game. I hope they find a good balance. I see you haven't played City of Heroes.  The key is to not take control completely away from players. Who CARES if you can stun a mob for 20 seconds - it's a bunch of pixels on a screen, it doesn't have feelings or get frustrated. But making the play mash a button is going to be annoying as hell about 5 minutes in - why not instead have stun mix up your movement and attack/power buttons ("oh poo poo I pressed D and it did my AoE, but 1 is strafe left, wtf") which is more in line with their philosophy and hindering players while never taking full control away.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:12
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WarLocke posted:I see you haven't played City of Heroes. Not sure if you are saying "This is how they should do things" or "This is how CoX does things" because what you suggest IS in the game, it's the 'disorient' mechanic.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:14
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That's for mixing up movement keys. He is suggesting mixing up your movement keys with your ability key binds.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:20
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Manifest Dynasty posted:That's for mixing up movement keys. He is suggesting mixing up your movement keys with your ability key binds. Yeah, basically. Nobody enjoys the 'stand there for 10 seconds because you're stunned' mechanic, and I am willing to bet nobody is going to enjoy the 'mash X to get out of stun' mechanic either. And I forgot the disorient thing was already in, but honestly I think at this point they should just make 'stun' and 'disorient' the same effect: mobs get stunned, players get disoriented. That seems like the simplest compromise to me.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:33
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CC works in something like Dota where stuns have very high costs and cooldowns (at least in the early game), whereas for MMO PvP it's aggravating because the opportunity costs for those CC abilities are comparatively low. So you'll often end up chain-stunned for something like 10 seconds having to just stand there doing nothing if you don't have some kind of CC remover active. If they do have stuns for PvP in Wildstar, they need to have short durations, long cooldowns, or some combination of the two.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:16
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Reading through the CC discussion, I agree with the idea that it'd probably be better to just straight nix stuns from the (PvP at least) game for alternative forms of CC that actually have interesting/skill-based actions rather than spamming a button (see: their other CC remedies). Not sure of all the types of Wildstar CC, but it seems like, with their more-movement based gameplay, a barrier-type CC would be cool. When I say barrier, I'm specifically thinking of Anivia's Crystallize ability (makes an Ice Wall a distance from the caster that blocks the path of someone running directly away, forcing them to maneuver around it or burn a flash/teleport ability) from League of Legends. It could also have some use in PvE by forcing them to path around or, defensively, stopping incoming attacks whilst it's in the way.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:39
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bUm posted:Reading through the CC discussion, I agree with the idea that it'd probably be better to just straight nix stuns from the (PvP at least) game for alternative forms of CC that actually have interesting/skill-based actions rather than spamming a button (see: their other CC remedies). Yeah, stuns being replaced by more interesting forms of CC would be a welcome change of pace. They seem to be a standard in games, and it's fine from a PvE standpoint but they just plain suck in PvP.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:48
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WarLocke posted:I see you haven't played City of Heroes. Stun shouldn't be a thing at all in my opinion.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:48
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grrarg posted:To be fair, this could be said for every aspect of the game because the hype machine is in full effect, and people's imaginations are running wild that the game will be all sunshine and lollipops and blowjobs, the most perfect game ever. And it is, until you play it. Hate to say it but I played the beta for a few days and now I just log on to see if they have fixed the optimization/removed the terrible slasher sound effect on the claws attacks and they haven't so I just log out and don't play. I feel bad because I have been playing MMOs for over 14 years now and they are my favorite type of game but something about WildStar just feels ... off. It is almost criminal how bad this game runs on most computers additionally. I've tried it on 5 different ones and it doesn't make a lick of difference what you got in the machine. Yeah, beta and all, but make the beta playable.
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Dec 12, 2013 08:01
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Meowbot posted:Hate to say it but I played the beta for a few days and now I just log on to see if they have fixed the optimization/removed the terrible slasher sound effect on the claws attacks and they haven't so I just log out and don't play. I feel bad because I have been playing MMOs for over 14 years now and they are my favorite type of game but something about WildStar just feels ... off. I hope you made a forum post (or added your name to a thread that probably exists) since at least one other person here mentioned the claw sound. You could also try a different class since it's a beta and all progress will be deleted anyway (no point clinging to your "main"). The "criminal" levels of bad performance on "most computers" seems disingenuous. Of people I know playing, 0/3 have notable performance issues; there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming number (or even significant, given the closed beta phase) of complaints about it either to justify doom-and-gloom level statements over it.
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Dec 12, 2013 08:57
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I had really bad lag in the starting zone during the stress test but after that the game ran really smoothly. Course I don't know how much of this is "NDA  " so nevermind
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Dec 12, 2013 10:16
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ITT: Casual PVPers(and I use this term loosely) complaining about stun mechanics. Bunch of scrubs, the lot of you. In all seriousness though the CC/Stun mechanics in this game are somewhere between not bad and not terrible. Definitely played MMOs where you could be incaped or stunned for 20+ seconds. From a PVP perspective I think CCs are important specifically when you're looking at melee range vs ranged combat. The other option is to just give everyone tons of gaps closers, see RIFTs riftblade to see how stupid that can get.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:15
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I think I'm somewhere in the middle when it comes to keymashing vs. the annoyance of being stunlocked. To me though, the annoying part of CC is not losing control but that it feels very sudden and jarring in a somewhat fast-paced game. Not having CCs at all on the other hand just seems like a different kind of step backwards. Clearly the dev team are capable of designing actually fun mechanics for breaking cc (i.e. disarm.), so if the mashing stun-break turns out to be something a large majority complains about I doubt it'll last. I've not developed RSI yet from the various buttonmashing games I've played over the past twenty years or so, but let's just say I certainly won't complain if they find a better mechanic for it, either. Not the end of the world, either way. 
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Dec 12, 2013 14:43
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Boom! The sound of the press NDA being lifted (on level 1-15 content). Lots of videos incoming by the looks of it.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:38
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Whoa - Massively's just posted like 5 "hands-on" articles Was there some sort of press event or NDA drop? e: guess the answer's above Deceptive Thinker fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 15:38
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Tarnop posted:Boom! The sound of the press NDA being lifted (on level 1-15 content). Character creation stuff: Human Aurin Granok Mordesh Mechari Chua Draken Cassian e: More Character Creation Overview Dominion City Exile City Mounts rap music fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 16:02
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rap music posted:Character creation stuff: The first two videos were a girl who not only has an annoying voice, but is terribly undescriptive. "You can use a slider to customise things like... *slides* *moves mouse to the nose and circles it* YES!" Well it was great that I knew what you were customising when you did it! The volume of her voice is all over the place ARGH! Let's talk more about how stun is a terrible mechanic, and button mashing is a terrible solution, but offer no real solutions other than "just reduce the timer!"
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Dec 12, 2013 16:13
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jesus christ those female models
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Dec 12, 2013 16:14
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Wow the models have a lot of interesting combinations. Two Drakens can look like two separate races edit: But yeah those female models are quite something  At the very least do their boobs need to be two gigantic balloons?
Macaluso fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 16:16
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Macaluso posted:At the very least do their boobs need to be two gigantic balloons? Yes.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:23
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Are there no body sliders at all either? I do have to say though, the hair styles in this game look fantastic. I just wish there were more, 8-10ish per race/gender is a bit skimpy, especially since some of them are reused. Definitely need a lot more Face styles too, many of them are terrifying.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:28
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quote:Take mining for example: you might be happily digging away at an ore node, only for it to sprout legs and scamper off. Or maybe even erupt from the ground as a giant ore wyrm, all set on devouring your diminutive Chua. It’s partly a move to keep gathering interesting, but it also works as an anti-farming measure by giving those bots something unpredictable to deal with. AMAZING! All mmo's should do this to get rid of botters.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:30
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Are there no body sliders at all either? One of the Aurin female hairstyle is this big long flowing wavy hair style that looks completely loving awesome edit: this one 
Macaluso fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 16:35
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Macaluso posted:One of the Aurin female hairstyle is this big long flowing wavy hair style that looks completely loving awesome Please thumbnail your giant images.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:28
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Macaluso posted:One of the Aurin female hairstyle is this big long flowing wavy hair style that looks completely loving awesome Looks like something from The Sims. It's probably going to clip like crazy through armor too.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:41
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