|
TheKingofSprings posted:Liliana, Deathrite Shaman, Bob, Decay and Maelstrom Pulse are all things which are pretty relevant in the matchup. Yeah, death rite seems okay against the deck and decay/pulse are the cards you obviously need to keep out of their hand, but Lilliana seems like it barely does anything in the matchup, and Chandra is pretty good, but not impossible to deal with. Bob seems awful. You are more likely to start a clock on yourself then get anything to break the lock. 50 pounds of bread fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 11, 2013 |
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:26 |
|
|
50 pounds of bread posted:Yeah, death rite seems okay against the deck and decay/pulse are the cards you obviously need to keep out of their hand, but Lilliana seems like it barely does anything in the matchup, and Chandra is pretty good, but not impossible to deal with. Given their entire method of instigating a lock is setting it up so you get lands and completely dead cards the entire time (of which you have like 6) Bob throws a wrench right into that plan by just adding those lands straight to your hand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
No, I don't think you get what the deck does. It thoughtseize/duresses you. It plays a two card pseudo lock. It plays a card that stops you from attacking. It plays backup cards to solidify the lock. Jund lists play 4-8 spells that can kill the bridge, and only 1 creature (deathrite) which can do anything while bridge is up. Lilliana is only relevant for her ultimate, and Chandra isn't reliable as an answer, it just increases the chance you will draw an answer, slightly. Top controls the top 2 draws at minimum it's far less likely for jund to draw a relevant answer, even with bob, than it is for top to draw either a game ending threat like Tezzeret or more fuel for the lock, making it even less likely for jund to draw an answer. I'm not saying top is a better deck than jund. I am just saying that post established lock, jund is pretty weak against the strategy. The reason bob is bad in the matchup is because, while bob will draw you lands, it will also draw you dead cards like goyf, huntsmaster, scooze, terminate, thoughtseize, inquisition, and blightning. You have a much larger chance to just kill yourself, than for you to get 3-4 answers in a row (which is the only way to draw any of them ever.) 50 pounds of bread fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 11, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
50 pounds of bread posted:No, I don't think you get what the deck does. I played Barberchop for a while. It's a really good deck, assuming your opponent's first 8 cards aren't enough to kill you. Unfortunately, opponents usually have enough good cards in their opening 8 to kill you. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
AgentSythe posted:Well, the mana enchantments also allow me to get red mana when I need it. I have to do some more testing to see if there are lots of situations where I do not have a BTE (for Nykthos'ing or casting) or a mana enchanment. Adding a single Stomping Ground to be fetched doesn't means I always have zero problems generating that red mana (or I am in a position so dire that I can't really win the game anyway). I have to think about Abundant Growth and whether or not I have room for it, or if I really, really need the mana-fixing it provides. I've been testing mono-green Nykthos ramp this afternoon, and generally didn't have any trouble generating other colors of mana if I needed it- so there go my suggestions. The cantrip effect on Abundant Growth is nice- so I'm still considering it. But I really like the Banefire+Wolf Run idea, and will try testing that out next time I get a chance. I'm not really sold on Grapeshot. Curio- I'm really not a fan of, it often just ended up dead weight in the matches I played this afternoon (UWR Control, UR Delver, Pyromancer Storm, UR Faeries, god I loving hate UR decks).
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
While Bob certainly isn't getting you out of the lock once its been established I'm not sure I'd call it a bad card in the match up. A two power beater that draws cards seems pretty relevant against a deck packing a lot of discard.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2013 23:31
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm talking completely from a post lock standpoint. They were talking as though the lock itself wasn't strong, and it absolutely is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 02:21
|
|
|
Gravy Train Robber posted:I've been testing mono-green Nykthos ramp this afternoon, and generally didn't have any trouble generating other colors of mana if I needed it- so there go my suggestions. The cantrip effect on Abundant Growth is nice- so I'm still considering it. But I really like the Banefire+Wolf Run idea, and will try testing that out next time I get a chance. I'm not really sold on Grapeshot. Curio- I'm really not a fan of, it often just ended up dead weight in the matches I played this afternoon (UWR Control, UR Delver, Pyromancer Storm, UR Faeries, god I loving hate UR decks). Yeah, if it happened that that interaction was good enough to run, it would almost certainly come out in matchups that have that much stack interaction. I am also going to put together the "base" version of the deck and see if finding a home for a Stomping Ground, Banefire, and Wolf Run end up being good. I have a huge hard-on for going infinite so I'll probably still see if I can get the grapeshot thing to work but I have a feeling that it wont without fundamentally changing what the deck does. The direction that line seems to take is "Ghetto-rear end Belcher" and I am not sure that's where you want to be in this format.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 02:26
|
|
|
AgentSythe posted:Yeah, if it happened that that interaction was good enough to run, it would almost certainly come out in matchups that have that much stack interaction. I am also going to put together the "base" version of the deck and see if finding a home for a Stomping Ground, Banefire, and Wolf Run end up being good. I have a huge hard-on for going infinite so I'll probably still see if I can get the grapeshot thing to work but I have a feeling that it wont without fundamentally changing what the deck does. The direction that line seems to take is "Ghetto-rear end Belcher" and I am not sure that's where you want to be in this format. Speaking of Ghetto Belcher, on the main site there's a Modern Belcher deck that looks pretty ridiculous if you wanted to go for something more pure combo. I haven't got the pieces for Modern Nykthos yet- I've just been testing through Cockatrice until I find a build I'm happy with before buying the pieces I need for it. A singleton, fetchable Wolf-Run seems good to me, but how many Banefires do you think would be good for consistency? A full four?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 02:35
|
|
|
Four seems like too many. My initial inspiration was that the Banefire was just one way to capitalize on the "plan" of this deck, which is to make a bunch of mana then dunk nerds with huge Genesis Waves. If the Banefire plan is good enough, I can see 3, but perhaps 2 to start in conjunction with the fetchable Wolf Run and the turn a lot of dudes sideways plan.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 17:47
|
|
|
Just wanted to drop in this thread to say as a newbie to Legacy and a fresh return to MTG overall - holy poo poo this format is hilariously awesome. I feel like I already know a good bit but it's really fun learning how some of these cards work. For example, I was playing the other day and learned the wonders of stifle. I have a functional (very incomplete) elf deck running and managed to combo out my Craterhoof only to have his trigger stifled! On the other side I sideboarded in Autumn's Veil against a High Tide player who tried to counter my Natural Order after I dropped a board full of elves. It was really funny to see him do a double take on the card, definitely caught him off guard. I probably had him dead regardless but it's a moral victory for me. Other horros included my opponent dropping a turn 2 Chalice of the Void and (against the same opponent) having to mulligan down to 4, resulting in a game where I played exactly 0 permanents. I don't have any experience with modern but was looking at putting some stuff together for it. In terms of player base, is it about as popular as Legacy? I have a decklist made up that I feel may not be powerful enough to play, but I'll post it here if you guys want to ridicule me! Lonely Bridge fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Dec 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 18:05
|
|
|
It really depends on your area as far as whether Legacy or Modern is more popular. Legacy gets more support from Star City, but Modern gets more support from Wizards in the form of FNM, PTQs, GPs, and the PT. There is a tier 2 elf deck in modern that I posted a while back if that's your thing. Should be most of the same cards as legacy except you're running Summoner's Pact, Beck//Call, Lead the Stampede, and Regal Force. See what events you have at your LGGs and what format people play more often there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 18:12
|
|
|
ScarletBrother posted:See what events you have at your LGGs and what format people play more often there.  . I feel like Legacy is more popular (though abysmal compared to Standard, understandably) and even some of the events for that turn into dudes just playing EDH.ScarletBrother posted:There is a tier 2 elf deck in modern that I posted a while back if that's your thing. (Link for anybody interested: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26921_Video-Elves-In-Modern.html) I can see this being decent, though it seems crazy slow compared to the Legacy version. I read some of your posts and it seems like you're playing this currently. If you're still looking to run it to Legacy I've been getting away with running 1 Cradle and 3 Crop Rotation without duals - it's really weak but you can still combo off. I'm mainly playing it incomplete just to see how Legacy feels and it is still fun! I'm toying with Nykthos but honestly it seems really ineffective when you need 2 mana just to get any green out of it and it's even worse than Cradle when your elves are dying. The plus side of it is being able to have it on the board with Cradle (still lovely compared to just dropping a second Cradle). What I'm trying to get at, though, is that it may be a viable choice in Modern - have you looked into that at all?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
There's a version of the deck that I am talking about in the post right above your first on this page that a Channel Fireball dude played. He didn't have a good result, but made a lot of errors so it may be worth some further testing. It is probably the closest analogue to Legacy Elves, except instead of Glimpse of Nature it uses Genesis Wave and instead of Natural Order->Craterhoof it goes Summoner's Pact->Cratherhoof (which is not as good, but is also where Nykthos comes into play). Also, instead of the Wirewood Symbiote/Elvish Visionary engine it has Elvish Visionary + Cloudstone Curio. Like Modern itself, it is in every way worse than the Legacy version.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 23:25
|
|
|
AgentSythe posted:Like Modern itself, it is in every way worse than the Legacy version.  Legacy lacks any sort of organized play support, and is critically hamstrung by WotC's own reserve list. In the short term Legacy may be more interesting, but barring either the destruction of the reserve list or allowing some amount of proxies in sanctioned play, it is a biological dead end as a format, like a jaguar introduced to an island of flightless birds who eats himself into extinction
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
Tharizdun posted:Legacy lacks any sort of organized play support Tharizdun posted:In the short term Legacy may be more interesting, but Tharizdun posted:it is a biological dead end as a format Let's play a game called "Guess how wrong you are." Hint: It's a lot Seriously though, SCG continues to support Legacy with pretty high payout tournaments two to three times a month, The format has multiple forums dedicated to it almost entirely that have survived for years and continue to thrive, and because new cards are playable in it, every new printing creates an opportunity for things to get shaken up and for the meta to evolve (as is happening now with TNN, before that with Abrupt Decay and DRS, and before that with Delver, and so on and so forth). Unrelated: A friend of mine has been toying with a Modern list that puts Pod into an affinity Shell to try and pod Myr Enforcer into Griselbrand quickly, after which it can completely flood the board or just win with Griseldad himself (sometimes suited up with Cranial Plating). Here's an initial list: x4 Mox Opal x4 Springleaf Drum x4 Memnite x4 Ornithopter x4 Frogmite x4 Myr Enforcer x2 Kuldotha Forgemaster x1 Spellskite x1 Wurmcoil Engine x1 Griselbrand x1 Blightsteel Colossus x3 Birthing Pod x3 Ancient Stirrings x4 Thoughtcast x3 Cranial PLating/Arcbound Ravager (all of one or mix?) x1 Lightning Greaves x4 Glimmervoid x4 Darksteel Citadel x4 Inkmoth Nexus x2 Island x2 Forest SB Thoughts: Whipflare Rest in Peace Nature's Claim/Krosan Grip/Wear//Tear Witchbane Orb Platinum Angel Platinum Empyrion Sundering Titan Wurmcoil Engine Sphinx of the Steel Wind Inkwell Leviathan Oldsrocket_27 fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:10
|
|
|
Thraz is right. Among the people that already play legacy, it's thriving. It's very hard to break into and it's not attracting many new players. Compared to standard and modern which are always growing. The reserve list is also only capable of supporting a finite number of players. As legacy grows so do prices which in turn slow and limit it's growth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Oldsrocket_27 posted:Unrelated: That looks interesting, no real pod chain to speak of but he probably doesn't have space to do it. A metamorph might be a good choice somewhere, but it would need testing. There is one problem to the secondary strategy though, the rules text for modular does not let you put tokens on non artifact creatures. quote:This enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it dies, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Wadjamaloo posted:Thraz is right. Among the people that already play legacy, it's thriving. It's very hard to break into and it's not attracting many new players. Legacy event attendance has been consistently increasing. That's not surprising because all attendance for all formats is increasing. GPDC Was the Largest North American Legacy GP by a significant margin and wasn't far from matching the biggest one in the world. People have been bitching and moaning about the approaching death of Legacy and every year their predictions look dumber and dumber. Modern in the mean time has a cost barrier to entry that gets closer to rivaling Legacy each and every PTQ season, yet no one seems concerned that it too will soon be just as inaccessible. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:37
|
|
|
Let's not pretend there isn't a hard limit on how many people can play Legacy (or, if you want to split the hairs, can play the good deck of their choice in Legacy). It does not have the theoretical room for growth that Modern and Standard do. Period. While printing new cards that shake up the format is cool, there are still a finite number of blue duals for everyone to cast those TNNs off of. Now, if you want to define a sustainable format as one where SCG can fill up their Opens, cool, but realize that that's not very satisfying to those of us who look at the penetration of Standard or even Modern and would dearly love to see Legacy acquire the same status, because it really is that cool of a format purely in terms of the metagame and gameplay experiences. It's my favorite format to read articles or watch videos about ATM (I would have said "by far" my favorite, but honestly Modern isn't that far behind).
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:45
|
|
|
Bugsy posted:There is one problem to the secondary strategy though, the rules text for modular does not let you put tokens on non artifact creatures. Ah, right, there is that bit. But yeah, a pod chain isn't really necessary as long as you can jam Griseldad or go frogmite -> Forgemasgter -> Blightsteel. Plus, there's the off chance that you still just get there off of a cranial plating on small dudes. His thought was that it would have enough angles of attack that it would be hard to deal with. My worry is that the deck will be unfocused and clunky for it, hence the Thoughcasts and Ancient Stirrings. Oldsrocket_27 fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:52
|
|
|
I'll admit I'm making this poo poo up, but I would wager that legacy attendance increasing has more to do with existing players traveling more or getting more serious about. It's got less to do with new players joining. At least compared to modern and standard. Modern and standard are both accessible to the new player and accessible at the FNM level. Aside from SCG and small scattered communities legacy just isn't accessible. I was trying to get some interest going at my LGS for an all proxies legacy play group. There was a bit if interest but most people didn't want to play anything non sanctioned and didn't want to buy a legacy deck either. A lot of people at my lgs would definitely play legacy is the barrier were lower.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 00:53
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:Let's not pretend there isn't a hard limit on how many people can play Legacy We are nowhere near that limit. The barrier to Legacy entry isn't because of the number of physical cards remaining but the hugely negative impact of retailers like SCG. There where 450 MILLION ABUR cards printed. That means there existed 300,000 copies of a given dual land. Even if we lost 1/3 of all the copies there would still be 50,000 play-sets of dual lands out there. That doesn't sound like a lot but it really is. It's more than twice the number of play-sets of Grim Monolith, or very likely more than any other rare until the Modern Era. I think people incorrectly assume Revised must have had a tiny print run compared to the sets that followed and it's actually the exact opposite. The Revised print run was DOUBLE the expansion sets that followed and while Wizards gets really shy about print run numbers after Urza's block it was likely never superseded in size until very recently 50,000 might sound like a tiny amount of play-sets to support organized play but the Magic community that participates in organized play is actually hilariously tiny. When the New World Order kicked in organized play barely had 130,000 active DCI numbers. That's numbers they've yet to delete or whatever they do mind you not actual people consistently participating in organized play. Even if it's doubled since then, which would be a little bit optimistic that's only 260,000 players worldwide playing any sort of organized magic. Again, 260K might seem like way more than the card pool can support but WOTC's market research consistently shows that of the people participating in WPN Organized Play an overwhelming majority are playing in the occasional FNM and Pre-Release but are going nowhere near what we might consider "competitive play" So we could theoretically have enough Duals for 40% of the active player population (maybe more, I think 1/3 being lost is pretty silly) and consistent affirmation from Wizards that a significant majority of that "active" population doesn't even build real decks for the 4 FNMs they go to a year. I'm pretty sure Legacy has plenty of room left to grow. EDIT: I messed up there are actually nearly 650 Million ABUR cards printed. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 02:55
|
|
|
Yeah, but how many people actually play with Alpha, Beta, or even Unlimited dual lands? I know that they're out there, but anyone that's playing with those have had them for a long time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:01
|
|
|
That's pretty much completely irrelevant since the print run for just ABU was a combined 49.2 Million. Revised was 600 Million. Even if Every Alpha, Beta, and Unlimited dual was retired to Binder Queen duty the supply of Duals would only be affected by tiny margin. There where 21,200 combined copies of any of the Alpha Beta and Revised Duals (and 22,300 of any other rare, but 1,100 Alpha Volcanics weren't printed) Compared to 289,000 Unlimited copies. So yeah, worst case scenario people binder their ABU Duals and the supply drops a whole .07% Keep in mind I'm not saying the cards aren't scarce. I'm saying the scarcity is artificial and not really related to the ratio of existing copies to interested players. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 03:17
|
|
|
this is kind of like the drake equation, I'm going to list some variables ABUR duals available for use by legacy players is what we're after = Dleg we start with ABUR duals that have been printed = Dprn ABUR duals in retail inventory = Dret "" in unopened packs = Dup "" destroyed in fires/floods = Ddes "" in EDH decks = Dedh "" in kitchen table decks (just any player without an active DCI registration) = Dktd "" forgotten in attics/basements/storage units = dfor Dleg = Dprn - (Dprn *D ret - Dprn * Dup - Dprn * Ddes - Dprn * Dedh - Dprn * Dktd - Dprn * dfor) edit: I'm sure there is a more elegant way to write this. What kind of fraction would you put on each of these variables?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 04:09
|
|
|
Its not only about supply though, but about demand. If demand were to rise, supply would still stay constant, therefore prices would go up. We can already observe this a bit with how much legacy staples have shot up after it started to make a comeback due to SCG opens. The supply is finite, obviously large enough to support everyone that wants to play, but its still finite. The more people trying to buy into legacy the higher the prices get increasing the barrier of entry even further, it just isn't sustainable. You also have to take into account how many of those dual lands aren't even entering the market because they are ebing held by speculators. Anyways, lets talk about that modern elves deck some more, it looks really fun and budget friendly. I was wondering, what exactly is the reasoning behind adding a grapeshot or banefire kill? Is it just to add an explosive punch or is it to get around something the normal beatdown plan can't deal with? I don't really like how those cards don't play well with genesis wave. What about something like Akroma's Memorial, Flame-Kin Zealot, Urabrask the Hidden, or even Sarkhan Vol to give everything flipped of Genesis Wave haste? All of those are theoretically cast able should you draw them and pretty impactful on their own. And why sin't craterhoof int he list?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 04:15
|
|
|
Ultimately this is why I support abolishing the reserved list - it wouldn't actually affect collectors at all, the only people who would be seriously hurt are the profiteers who have purchased and are sitting on large amounts of cards because they figure people who actually want to play the game will have to buy them at that price eventually. And gently caress those guys.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 04:40
|
|
|
EDIT: Eh, reserved list chat is usually lame. I think Legacy will continue to be around for quite some time. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 05:01
|
|
|
If true, that's... really interesting. Huh. I admit I may have jumped to the conclusion that there was more of a direct causal relationship between the (true) observations "there's a limited supply of these cards and they ain't printing no more" and "these cards are $130 a pop" than actually existed. This should really be publicized more. At any rate, thank you for setting me straight here. For the record, I don't think Legacy is going anywhere either--there will probably always be a consistent market for large tournaments, at least as long as Magic itself is around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
Let me give you an idea of how easy it is to get into Legacy from a person trying to do it just now - Legacy has no support by Wizards. This, as much as you might not want to think so, matters a lot. Oh sure, you guys have SCG over there, but unless you live in the States or in a big enough western European country that SCG supports legacy tournaments there, there is exactly ZERO actual support of the format. It's honestly impossible to find people to play modern with, and that one gets supported all the time. The community in my country is relatively small (due to being part of a relatively small country), and as such trends tend to be very strong here, and people here play Standard and, very occasionaly - draft. That's it. Every time you bring up Legacy in a conversation, most people just look at you as if you just said something rude about their mother, and tell you that nobody's interested in that poo poo, so just go play Standard (which, of course, is a lie, since if you're talking about it, there's obviously at least one person interested in the format). So okay, the established community is poo poo and it won't support it - what about new players? No chance. Now, I'm sure we're all aware that, at the end of the day, Magic is 'just a game' (God I loving hate that phrase). Because of that, most people who start playing just flat out don't feel like remembering the many cards that see play in Modern, let alone something like Legacy. They just shoot straight for Standard, since that requires less cards and decks to remember and there's a lot more people playing it. So the chance of getting someone who's new into the game to even consider playing a non-rotating format like Modern or Legacy is very, very slim. I guess the conclusion I've come to is that I should probably just leave the country.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 07:17
|
|
|
Jenx posted:I guess the conclusion I've come to is that I should probably just leave the country. What country are you from? When I lived in SE Asia, there was not much Modern or Legacy at all. Some people in the biggest cities might play EDH. Singapore had a lot of wealthy people with Legacy on the mind, though. Heck, drafting was also not a particularly common format. In Thailand, the only people I ever met interested in Legacy were expatriates who had brought their stuff over. At GP Bangkok, no Legacy events were able to fire, and the Modern event only barely launched with a few over the necessary 8- and only after some last minute pleading on the mic. Granted, I can't complain, because I went 0-4 with Martyr Proc and still walked away with a shitton of prizes for an event that had been planned/prize structure advertised for 64+ players. That said, I did meet a cool shop owner in Malaysia, who loved Legacy enough to basically let his customers use pre-built Legacy decks to play events. They'd essentially rent them when playing in the Legacy Tournaments (included in the event cost), so their players got the chance to play with the most powerful cards and try something other than Standard. I've only ever played in the UK, as far as European countries go, and just about any format can be found.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 07:44
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:This should really be publicized more. At any rate, thank you for setting me straight here. Its easy to assume the actual physical scarcity of the product is the driving issue behind prices but that's just not the case. Its pretty much a case of retailers going "OK, what is the absolute maximum these idiots are willing to pay?" Part of the problem is that sales data for Wizards in general and Magic specifically is incredibly hard to find. Right around the time when New World Order hit us (when WOTC estimated 6 million players with 130,00 active in organized play) Hasbro claimed to be pulling a cool 1.3 Billion from what it called "Games and Puzzles" with Magic getting a specific call out in pretty much every single quarterly report since as the standout product from that sector. Around that time some blogs and websites quoted an anonymous source at Hasbro describing Magic as a "Mega Brand" on the same level as The Transformers or G.I. Joe, pulling down something like a cool 250 million dollars annually. That's a crazy amount of packs. You're going to tell me that 250 Million dollars in product is getting sold and yet there are so few chase rares that a tiny population of 130,000 out of 6 million can increase demand so massively that the supply strains and suddenly the price balloons to 60 dollars? Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 07:45
|
|
|
Gravy Train Robber posted:What country are you from? Bulgaria, which would explain a few things. I mean, for starters, there's just not that many people here who can afford to play Magic in a serious manner, and even stuff like boardgames is still fairly niche (it's been getting better and better the last 10 years or so though, so that's at least optimistic). And keep in mind - I live in the capital city, so I'm in the middle of the largest Magic community in the country. There's a guy here who keeps trying to make cheap legacy tournaments (6 proxies allowed) with pretty decent prizes with the hope of 1. Raising interest in the format and 2. Getting more cards into circulation. That didn't really work, since the last few months we can't even get 8 people together. What's disheartening is that this is all in the people, not in card availability. There are people with 3-4 decks, who are very willing to give them to people so they can play, but there's just not enough people interested IN playing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 07:54
|
|
|
Jenx posted:Let me give you an idea of how easy it is to get into Legacy from a person trying to do it just now - Legacy has no support by Wizards. This, as much as you might not want to think so, matters a lot. Oh sure, you guys have SCG over there, but unless you live in the States or in a big enough western European country that SCG supports legacy tournaments there, there is exactly ZERO actual support of the format. Gravy Train Robber posted:When I lived in SE Asia, there was not much Modern or Legacy at all. Some people in the biggest cities might play EDH. Singapore had a lot of wealthy people with Legacy on the mind, though. Heck, drafting was also not a particularly common format. In Thailand, the only people I ever met interested in Legacy were expatriates who had brought their stuff over. This makes me really thank my lucky stars that Osaka (Japan as a whole? I dunno) has a surprisingly robust Legacy community. There are pretty much no Modern events in town, though (Grands Prix Kitakyushu and Kyoto didn't even have any Modern side events on the schedule as far as I know) and I don't think any of the local shops ever draft for FNM. I do wish I could find more new people to play EDH with, though, and I would like to try Modern beyond my group of friends who're too gunshy to jump into Legacy. We have a Modern GP coming up next August, maybe the format will see more support in anticipation of that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 07:59
|
|
|
Hopping Ghost posted:This makes me really thank my lucky stars that Osaka (Japan as a whole? I dunno) has a surprisingly robust Legacy community. There are pretty much no Modern events in town, though (Grands Prix Kitakyushu and Kyoto didn't even have any Modern side events on the schedule as far as I know) and I don't think any of the local shops ever draft for FNM. I do wish I could find more new people to play EDH with, though, and I would like to try Modern beyond my group of friends who're too gunshy to jump into Legacy. We have a Modern GP coming up next August, maybe the format will see more support in anticipation of that. I am seriously looking at moving to Japan within the next several months (ish? no concrete plans), and would be interested to know more about how events are there. If I do end up crossing back over the Pacific I'd definitely try to hit up the GP.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 08:07
|
|
|
I want to point out that I don't think SCG or other retailers are comically evil or whatever. They do however consist of such a vast amount of the secondary market that what they do has a big big impact on prices often negatively so. I just wanted to point out that the number of actual cards in existence isn't half as important as how many cards are being bought and sold by these retailers. That's the supply that's relevant. To tie it back to the original discussion. There are way more Dual lands than people think, total that is, certainly enough for Legacy to continue growing for some time. The problem isn't with the number that exist it's with the number in circulation at any given moment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 08:40
|
|
|
Gravy Train Robber posted:I am seriously looking at moving to Japan within the next several months (ish? no concrete plans), and would be interested to know more about how events are there. If I do end up crossing back over the Pacific I'd definitely try to hit up the GP. I can't really talk about Tokyo, but in Osaka there's one shop that runs Legacy events twice a day (though I guess the later ones are when the real decks come out) Tuesdays and Thursdays and another that runs Legacy instead of Standard FNM two weeks out of the month. There's usually only about 10 to 15 guys at any given night but the metagame is more diverse than I expected when I first showed up. If you're in a major city, there are plenty of shops and if you don't like one, you can just walk a block to another. Out in a more rural area it's a lot harder to find, but it's probably there somewhere. I lived in Shiga prefecture before moving to Osaka, and there are literally two shops in the whole prefecture that run sanctioned events. The one I went to for prereleases etc. did most of their business in Yugioh but the guy who runs it is a Judge who's been playing Magic since well before the cards started appearing in Japanese. I actually haven't been to a Grand Prix in the States so I can't really compare, but my understanding is that the number of dealers and side events at the Japanese ones I've been to have been on the low side. Still, there's always been Legacy and EDH side events (though I avoid the latter) and at least the Legacy ones seem to get plenty of players. As far as the players go, there's a lot less trash-talk and though the huffy guy who sighs when the guy sitting next to him is using the same sleeves and stalls forever when he's dead on board with garbage in hand is an international phenomenon, I've yet to meet him outside of FNM. Most players speak very little Real English but nearly fluent Magic English, and English cards are readily available and nobody bats an eye if you use them. Johnny Landmine fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Dec 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 09:54
|
|
Hopping Ghost posted:This makes me really thank my lucky stars that Osaka (Japan as a whole? I dunno) has a surprisingly robust Legacy community. Probably due to being one of the top MtG countries in the world, and realizing how much Americans and collectors are willing to pay for Japanese foil Legacy staples.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 17:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:26 |
|
|
Come to Seattle  . You can play a legacy tournament probably every day of the week. We have this weird combo heavy metagame though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2013 18:53
|
|
