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Seriously, though, I hope these last four episodes are good. I'm also still super curious about next season.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:53
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Guys. Remember when we were saying that the neighbor boy was going to wind up being in the closet? Last episode he was literally in the closet 
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Dec 13, 2013 04:00
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Wait. Fundie Mom only knew that Fundie Son knew about the murder because Nan told her. He then started rambling about it right after waking up. If Nan hadn't convinced her that she could read minds and was speaking for FS, would FM have killed him? Is Nan indirectly responsible* for his murder? *I mean obviously FM killed him so she's the one who's actually responsible.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:25
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In regards to the tone this season, going in Murphy said in interviews he was deliberately hoping to try something more humorous and not so dire this time around. Not sure how that will affect future seasons, but it was a specific choice at least for this one.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:29
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I think if Fiona reclaimed her youth by stealing Kyle away from Zoe and Madison, that would be funny enough to redeem the season for me.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:03
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Teek posted:In regards to the tone this season, going in Murphy said in interviews he was deliberately hoping to try something more humorous and not so dire this time around. Not sure how that will affect future seasons, but it was a specific choice at least for this one. The only thing I've found funny about Coven that was intentional was the Queenie/Delphine tag team. That's about the only thing I would accept as an enjoyable possible spin-off as well. By the way, it really slays me that they've done all this stalling and backpedaling and flip-flopping only to realize at episode nine that they couldn't do a continuance because of a character death of all things. Like they designed this entire season as a big "To Be Continued" story that they now must attempt to wrap up in four episodes. If I could say one thing to Murphy it'd be this: Plot is important.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:15
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Season one had some campy moments too (crysturbation, the ghosts piling up in the house culminating in decorating the tree for Christmas), but it still managed to be tense and unpredictable. They dialed back the dark themes from Asylum but they went way too far. Now that Evan Peters can play cards maybe he'll actually get more than a few sputtered words and grunts for lines.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:18
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OmegaBR posted:By the way, it really slays me that they've done all this stalling and backpedaling and flip-flopping only to realize at episode nine that they couldn't do a continuance because of a character death of all things. Like they designed this entire season as a big "To Be Continued" story that they now must attempt to wrap up in four episodes. You can tell that the plotting was completely lost since there hasn't been one. There's been vague stabs toward a plot but they're stabs like hulking serial killer into a pack of camp counselors: clumsy, jagged, and in the end it leaves the victim dead and the witnesses running in terror. The show has been rife with incident but they haven't been assembled into a story. scary ghost dog posted:This is hilariously backwards because despite looser plotting, this season is far deeper in message and theme. I don't know how you can possibly say that in comparison with season two. This season it seems like they went, "We'll say something about race" and didn't put any thought into beyond that. That's a good starting point but without anything to hook that theme onto the result is shallow and ham handed. The witches live in a bright white house while team voodoo have a place with more earth tones. That seems to be about as far as they've taken the concept.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:44
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You just know the final four episodes are going to be a massacre. We won't have enough time to process it all. I fully expect the final scene to be Fiona body swapping with the new Supreme, killing her and lighting a cigarette while looking at the camera.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:56
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Random Stranger posted:I don't know how you can possibly say that in comparison with season two. This season it seems like they went, "We'll say something about race" and didn't put any thought into beyond that. That's a good starting point but without anything to hook that theme onto the result is shallow and ham handed. The witches live in a bright white house while team voodoo have a place with more earth tones. That seems to be about as far as they've taken the concept. It's not about race, it's about womanhood and man vs woman. Please consider the first scene of this week's episode.
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Dec 13, 2013 07:00
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scary ghost dog posted:It's not about race, it's about womanhood and man vs woman. Please consider the first scene of this week's episode. That's the other theme, but it's not handled much better and has been largely absent until this past episode.
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Dec 13, 2013 07:08
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You really have to reach to even come up with any messages or themes this season has, much less discern any deeper respect for them. Other than the fact Queenie struggled with which side to belong to, given Voodoo is "her people," there's been practically nothing to speak of as far as race. A few hamfisted lines about seeing white women on that side of town, sure, not to mention Delphine needing to say 'darkie' every so often to remind everyone she's supposed to be a racist, but there's been WAY too much Coven in-fighting for anything like that to matter. And I don't think the whole men vs. women thing is even there. Heck, there are barely even any men in the show except Hank, who didn't matter at all until this episode, and was shown to be a total powerless wannabe to his father and the Voodoo Queen and his wife, who he actually does love I guess. Clearly there's a rite of passage with the hunting trip, but I don't see how that translates to a gender thing, unless you want to shoehorn some deal about how men are supposed to be hunters who snag the pelts that are women. But considering we're dealing with a witch hunter who was actually hunting witches, I think that's reaching a bit too far. There's also Spalding, who is a dedicated servant to the Coven and admirer of Fiona, if not a creep who kept a dead body to be his realdoll. Also Axeman, a serial killer who fell victim to a gaggle of witches stabbing him (and oh yeah, he has a life-long admiration of Fiona too.) And of course Kyle, who was shown to be the single frat brother who wasn't immediately willing to participate in a gang rape, and therefore instantly soulmate material, until he was killed and resurrected into a programmable corpse. There are a lot of potential themes that, along with most of the potential plot, fell completely by the wayside. I mean, if the theme is supposed to be "men are drooling morons who serve and worship their female superiors," well, that's not exactly a deep or subtle commentary, especially for this series/creator.
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Dec 13, 2013 09:30
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I think it's really, really obvious that race/racism was a central conceit behind the creation of this season, and equally obvious that the writers never really planned to take it much further than window dressing. It's present in broad strokes -- Voodoo vs Coven, Laveau/LaLaurie (and then LaLaurie/Queenie), etc. -- but I don't know that the show's actually said anything about it other than maybe "racism bad". But I also think it's silly to say that this season is 'about' any one thing more than anything else (womanhood vs race, when there's elements of both at play), except maybe a fixation on life and death and the apparently fine line between the two.
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Dec 13, 2013 09:52
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after a three day binge marathon I'm almost caught up (just started watching episode 8 of season 3). I went through a bit of the thread, and googled, but is there any consensus of what the lyrics in the opening song is? After googling it I see some people think it sounds like words, some people think it sounds like water dripping (I tried hard, but I can't hear that at all). For half of the first season I thought it was "red skin". Now I keep hearing variations of "skin": "white skin" "black skin" "bright skin" "dark skin" "gray skin". And sometimes I think it sounds like "rescue" Thoughts?
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Dec 13, 2013 10:02
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This "lets air poo poo whenever we want" thing that networks are doing lately is loving atrocious. I can't even keep up with shows anymore. gently caress all of em I'll just watch it once it's on Netflix. I don't even care what happens on this stupid season anymore.
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Dec 13, 2013 10:21
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AGirlWonder posted:I really hated the enema scene. I know that this show is all about going over-the-top, but who the gently caress does that? Seriously. There are much more believable forms of child abuse (like what we'd already seen). Can we have one decent mother? I do social work, and it's a lot more common than you'd think.  Plus it's quite a well-worn trope in fiction about child abuse, Sybil being the most obvious case.
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Dec 13, 2013 13:07
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Obese Janissary posted:after a three day binge marathon I'm almost caught up (just started watching episode 8 of season 3). I went through a bit of the thread, and googled, but is there any consensus of what the lyrics in the opening song is? Wait... there are spoken words in the opening title credits? What?
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Dec 13, 2013 13:55
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I would say it's not a theme about womanhood so much as it is a theme about mothers and (apparently) how horrible they all are. But only in the sense of, hey here's another woman on AHS who is lovely to her child. It's not really developed or explored.
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Dec 13, 2013 16:44
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haveblue posted:Fun interview with Gabourey Sidibe. Kathy Bates sounds like a wonderful person in real life.  Then we'll have something hilarious to watch based on the best humor of the show and the show itself can return to the creepiness of the previous seasons. I think next season will return to that, though, since Lange said in an interview that she prefers the darkness of Asylum to the lighter stuff. Are they intentionally suggesting something about Misty's sexuality with the lingering meaningful glances, or is that just the show not knowing what it's doing again?
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Dec 13, 2013 17:25
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AGirlWonder posted:I really hated the enema scene. I know that this show is all about going over-the-top, but who the gently caress does that? Seriously. There are much more believable forms of child abuse (like what we'd already seen). Can we have one decent mother? In the old days it was incredibly common for parents to administer both enemas and laxatives to their kids:  Here's an enema bottle with a cute children's rhyme so you know who this is for: 
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Dec 13, 2013 17:55
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Taliaquin posted:Are they intentionally suggesting something about Misty's sexuality with the lingering meaningful glances, or is that just the show not knowing what it's doing again? Misty kind of comes off as a very "love is looooooove, man!" given how she's acted around Zoe, FrankenKyle, and now Cordelia. On the other hand, she could just be real, real lonely and looking to attach herself to really anyone who seems remotely welcoming enough (and someone who won't break Stevie). On the other-other hand, it's a Ryan Murphy production so it's probably best to assume unintentional until proven otherwise.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:19
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Obese Janissary posted:after a three day binge marathon I'm almost caught up (just started watching episode 8 of season 3). I went through a bit of the thread, and googled, but is there any consensus of what the lyrics in the opening song is? I hear "orange cat" and "wax strip"!
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Dec 13, 2013 18:52
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Fruity Gordo posted:I do social work, and it's a lot more common than you'd think. Family Values posted:In the old days it was incredibly common for parents to administer both enemas and laxatives to their kids:  It's one thing for it to be a necessary medical administration, but holy hell I did not know it was used as abuse. That's awful.EDIT: Well, castor oil as torture I knew about.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:31
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AGirlWonder posted:
There was a lot of sketchy pseudoscience surrounding enemas and their supposed health benefits around the turn of the century. Obviously it was snake oil, but not everyone gave kid enemas as a form of abuse. Not that excuses it, but a lot of people thought they were doing something healthy.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:51
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hoobajoo posted:There was a lot of sketchy pseudoscience surrounding enemas and their supposed health benefits around the turn of the century. Isn't there still?
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Dec 13, 2013 23:15
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NESguerilla posted:Isn't there still? Less? I feel like a lot of charlatans moved on to fad diets, high pH things, homeopathy, and anything else that uses the word "toxins". I'm sure there are still some people pushing colon scrubbing as a cure-all.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:24
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hoobajoo posted:Less? I feel like a lot of charlatans moved on to fad diets, high pH things, homeopathy, and anything else that uses the word "toxins". I'm sure there are still some people pushing colon scrubbing as a cure-all. I was seeing some crap about coffee enemas not that long ago (like 2 years ago)
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Dec 14, 2013 00:31
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Colonic irrigation is still a big thing in the UK, but there are a lot of state-side colon cleansing scams going too. "Meat stays in your GI tract for weeks!" I remember when Colon Blow was a big topic in GBS - essentially you ingest a large amount of bulking/osmotic herbal agents and some chia seed powder to gel it up and poo poo out a huge rope of mucous-covered poo poo/clay/"toxin" excretus. From their website, "POOP PICS MUST SEE!"  http://www.colonblow.com/poop-pics-must-see.htmlPeople are dumb.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:36
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And... one of them posted pics of where they just shat all around the rim of their own toilet. That pretty much says all you need to know about the people who buy into these things.
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Dec 14, 2013 02:04
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I suggest GISing the product and "results" to add some horror to this thread. Hoisting the fetid shitgarlands with tools seems to be a popular approach.
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Dec 14, 2013 02:11
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Kellogg-style pseudoscience is hilarious now that it's safely 100 years in the past. Masturbation and poop are responsible for all man's ills, so circumcise your child so it's harder for them to masturbate when they're older and give them plenty of laxatives and enemas to flush the demons out of their vulnerable colons. Also eat plenty of corn flakes and practice eugenics.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:14
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Well, let's not discount eugenics. We could have a civilization of people with perfect colons in only a handful of generations, impervious to toxins and negative Qi rays.
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Dec 14, 2013 03:23
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Obese Janissary posted:after a three day binge marathon I'm almost caught up (just started watching episode 8 of season 3). I went through a bit of the thread, and googled, but is there any consensus of what the lyrics in the opening song is? "are you scared?"
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Dec 14, 2013 04:48
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angerbeet posted:Colonic irrigation is still a big thing in the UK, but there are a lot of state-side colon cleansing scams going too. "Meat stays in your GI tract for weeks!" What the everloving gently caress....  I mean, fine, it works, but why would someone put their own poo poo in a piping bag and decorate the rim of their toilet like it was a cake?
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Dec 14, 2013 04:58
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This is the worst thread derail ever  I agree with the general buzz that this show has some laughably terrible writing sometimes, but the acting and sheer style of it easily carries it and makes it awesome fun still.
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Dec 14, 2013 04:59
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angerbeet posted:Colonic irrigation is still a big thing in the UK, but there are a lot of state-side colon cleansing scams going too. "Meat stays in your GI tract for weeks!" Wow those are great do you have any more?
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Dec 14, 2013 07:41
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Just a few years ago there was a big surge of infomercials for glorified enemas in the US and a bunch of colonic boutiques that promptly went out of business after the fad passed. "you have 20 pounds of beef stuck in your butt better spray some water up there".
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Dec 14, 2013 09:40
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MadSparkle posted:I was seeing some crap about coffee enemas not that long ago (like 2 years ago) I was horrified when I found out that coffee enemas weren't just a joke from Futurama.
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Dec 14, 2013 12:03
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AGirlWonder posted:Wait. Fundie Mom only knew that Fundie Son knew about the murder because Nan told her. He then started rambling about it right after waking up. If Nan hadn't convinced her that she could read minds and was speaking for FS, would FM have killed him? Is Nan indirectly responsible* for his murder? I think it all depends on how he confronted her when waking up- if he was strong enough to give her the mother loving ruckus about it like was done through Nan, then I think she still would have killed him so long as he was still not strong enough to fight back. If he was too weak to do that then he probably would have lived long enough to recover, hate his Mom to her face, and the wheelchair away. Ryan Murphy would go for a wheelchair character, it has been too many seasons of this for him not to do Ryan Murphy things- he has already made this very Degrassi. Blazing Ownager posted:Whoever called what's going on a World of Darkness RPG is starting to get a little spot on now that faceless mega corporations are running hunter groups. I'm not the only one who noticed this? It even has classic moments of Old World of Darkness like sloppy use of cultures that end up racist while also touching on some racial issues very well- classic let downs and moments of hope! hoobajoo posted:There was a lot of sketchy pseudoscience surrounding enemas and their supposed health benefits around the turn of the century. Obviously it was snake oil, but not everyone gave kid enemas as a form of abuse. Not that excuses it, but a lot of people thought they were doing something healthy. I'm glad it was abuse with possible sexual damage but not sexual abuse because that would have been my limit for this season, even after raising the limit with each episode. Right now I see Child Abuse as a major theme in this season, being the basic main theme in my opinion, child abuse slash parenting failure. Another straight up sexual abuse thing would have made sexual abuse way too major and poorly executed a theme and even if it is a common theme they seem to have re-tooled it because it was bad. I'm glad Madison brought up at some point how she could not feel anything and then spoke about how she used to numb herself and how she shrugged off her gang rape and how weird that was- really made me feel better that something that horrible was touched upon and not just 'she got over it' but 'she loving numbed herself to everything'. I'm a little sad that they have not brought up her emptiness anymore and hope it is touched on again by other people who died to give death consequence- if not then I'm going to assume that A gently caress With Kyle is a ritual to solve this problem that Myrtle had to do also. I usually hate Tell Don't Show but the Ritual of the Takings part of the show was one of my favorites and think they should have explained a bit of how witches work in this world a long time ago. Are there other covens? Does each coven get a supreme of its own? Do these witch hunters go after the other covens? Why not call for backup? I would like to call that there are going to be two supreme due to a Buffy Effect caused by Misty bringing herself back from the dead- either that or she is not the supreme or even a witch because her power is "Greater than all the Seven Wonders" and it would be nice if her backwoods family that burned her for being a demonic horror was actually right.
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Dec 14, 2013 23:42
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Rapdawg posted:Right now I see Child Abuse as a major theme in this season, being the basic main theme in my opinion, child abuse slash parenting failure. Another straight up sexual abuse thing would have made sexual abuse way too major and poorly executed a theme and even if it is a common theme they seem to have re-tooled it because it was bad. Think you've hit the nail firmly on the head in regards to what this season is really all about. Before the season started I wondered that, if Murder House was about fidelity, and Asylum was about sanity, perhaps Coven would be about legacy. And I think it's more accurate to say at this point that the theme of Coven is parenthood. Most obvious example being Fiona and Cordelia's relationship. Fiona was the classic absentee mother, dumping Cordelia off at the school and completely neglecting her duties as Supreme, which is essentially the mother of the coven. And while her original goal in returning to New Orleans was to find some kind of cure for her aging, she seems to have abandoned that entirely ever since Delia got blinded. Granted she keeps flip flopping between vengefully staying alive/the Supreme, and lamenting over how she treated her daughter and the coven at large, but with the witch hunters now in the picture, she seems ready to take on that responsibility. And Fiona herself was parented in a sort of way, taken care of by Spalding, who has protected her ever since she was young, and by Axeman, who has watched her grown up like a proud father. Of course, those two loved her beyond a parent's love, but Fiona wouldn't be the Supreme, much less alive and in charge, if it wasn't for their interference. If a parent's love is unconditional, well, those two are perhaps the greatest examples of that love in the show (particularly Spalding and his sacrifices.) Delphine, despite being a strict disciplinarian and locking them away in her dungeon for their treachery, is rendered motionless and grief stricken over seeing her daughters as the undead. You can sort of argue that Queenie saw something of a mother figure in Laveau the helped her switch sides. Up until that point, she had been something of a surrogate mother to LaLaurie, teaching her to accept this new world, particularly as to pertains to her old world racism. And you can argue Zoe became a surrogate mother to Kyle, helping him relearn everything. Then of course there are the cliche if not afflicting parents. Zoe's mother tearfully sends her to the school, realizing what she is. Madison's parents only seem to care about how much money she's making them. Misty's parents are presumably part of the group that saw her as a manifestation of the devil. Kyle's mother molested him because he was all she had. Luke's mother enema'd him for the same reason. Don't really know much about Queenie's or Nan's parents, but suffice to say they aren't exactly in the picture. And with so many girls sent to the school in order to be taught and protected by their surrogate parents, it's pretty safe to say they've completely failed in that respect. The girls have next to no instruction or supervision and in the very first episode they were able to go to a party with booze, drugs, and an eventual rape. If the adults were more focused on teaching their young wards and less on their own aims, maybe a lot of the bad things that have happened wouldn't have. You can kinda connect the whole Supreme thing to sex and the responsibility of it as well. All the girls want to be it and point out the flaws in the others' potential. Like how Nan can't possibly be the Supreme, just like how Luke couldn't possibly be interested in her over Madison. Sort of the idiom that if you're responsible enough to have sex, you're responsible enough to be a parent.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:10
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