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I don't think I could go back and play Fallout 3 after New Vegas, even if it was free. I could barely tolerate Fallout 3 when it just came out. But hey, you might enjoy it, if nothing else it will give you perspective on just how much better New Vegas is, and for five bucks it's not a big deal.Iretep posted:From a roleplaying perspective is there any reason to feel all that bad killing the brotherhood of steel? At that point they are mainly just a bunch of raider jerks who take technology from people and as far as the courier knows thats pretty much all they are. They don't seem to be even willing to deal with risks to the wasteland anymore instead just making sure everyone stays in the stone age around them. Blow up their bunker, rub it in Veronica's face, murder her as well, high five Boone, never look back. 
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Dec 15, 2013 19:54
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Radio Talmudist posted:Well, I bought it. If it's underwhelming or if I didn't like it at least only paid 5 bucks for it. Let me put it this way: Fallout 3 is a pretty good pile of Bethesda crap. New Vegas was a great Fallout game built over a pile of Bethesda crap. Skyrim is the current reigning king of Bethesda crap.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:55
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Going through New Vegas right now after a long hiatus and (choir preach mode activated) it's so much more engrossing than FO3. That said, my favorite quests/zone was the Oasis in FO3. Does NV have anything similar? I don't mean a literal oasis with mutated dudes, but something with a similar feeling -- middle of nowhere and there's this delightfully odd spot sort of hidden from view. I'm ~35h in to NV and I've just come across the Brotherhood; trying to take my time checking the world out.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:01
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Iretep posted:From a roleplaying perspective is there any reason to feel all that bad killing the brotherhood of steel? At that point they are mainly just a bunch of raider jerks who take technology from people and as far as the courier knows thats pretty much all they are. They don't seem to be even willing to deal with risks to the wasteland anymore instead just making sure everyone stays in the stone age around them.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:02
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I suppose the Honest Hearts DLC is what you're looking for.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:02
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It's really all in how the Courier encounters the Brotherhood that should sway them as to whether or not they should save or destroy the BoS. - If they first went in with Veronica, you develop a personal connection through your companion's familial ties with the organization. Even moreso if you tell her to stay with them. - If you first met them when they stole all your stuff, strapped a bomb collar around your neck, and "forced" you to do some stuff for them, then you're going to think they're a bunch of assholes who need to die. - If you never ran into them until Caeser, House, or NCR tells you to, your opinion will probably be similar to whatever faction you're siding with is about them.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:03
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OldMemes posted:One of the main reasons the wasteland has civilisation is that so much pre-war science, information and even individuals survived to teach the next generation, so it fits the setting fair enough. To be fair, House is also an authoritarian absolute dictator who proposes to build an extremely strict and orderly police state with constant surveillance in which order is kept by an army of obscenely powerful robots under his direct control, where people can literally be killed for being too poor and anyone who played too nice with the NCR is slaughtered as a threat to his rule. He's a lot better than Caesar, and he most definitely isn't an outright evil person, but I can see how killing him could be considered the right thing to do. I actually like that a lot about this game - with the exception of the Legion, who are pretty much completely horrible people, which faction you support has a lot of moral ambiguity to it. Any one of the options could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. House promises to return civilization to the wastes, and has the knowledge and the technology to do it - but he's also going to rule as an immortal god-king, nearly omniscient, all-powerful, and intolerant of dissent. The NCR is a liberal representative democracy which has a thriving and rapidly industrializing economy, a strong military, a functioning legal system, public education, and all the comforts of modern civilization - but it's also currently ruled by a jingoistic, militaristic, resource-hungry government, its political scene is heavily dominated by wealthy business interests and the military, they're starting to develop some Manifest Destiny ideas, and they're generally perfectly willing to roll over people if they get in the way of the NCR getting what it wants. An independent Mojave will be free of the Republic's neoliberal imperialism, Mr. House's police state, and Caesar's militaristic slave society. It will also be faced with the challenge of building an independent and functioning nation-state more or less from scratch, and without House's knowledge or the vast resources the Legion or the NCR could bring to bear, that's going to be a long and difficult road with many sacrifices along the way. Maybe the Courier has what it takes to make it work, and reshape the Mojave in his/her image. Maybe.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:03
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scamtank posted:I suppose the Honest Hearts DLC is what you're looking for. Brilliant, wishlisted. Thanks.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:05
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spider wisdom posted:Brilliant, wishlisted. Thanks. I'll second Honest Hearts, it's set in Zion National Park and has some nice scenery and... interesting inhabitants. 4 days until the Steam Christmas Sale starts, get your wallet ready.  Besides that, there actually is a literal oasis with mutated dudes in the base game (Vault 22 - sounds like you haven't been there yet).
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Dec 15, 2013 20:36
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Old World Blues is pretty cool, in that it has a lot of stuff that you won't find elsewhere. As for the Mr. House chat, he's basically Conrad Hilton's portrayal in Mad Men. He seems like a kindly old man who's rich as hell and owns a bunch of hotels, til you don't do exactly what he wants, and then you see the ugly side. He also wants his poo poo on the moon.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:46
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:- If they first went in with Veronica, you develop a personal connection through your companion's familial ties with the organization. Even moreso if you tell her to stay with them. House may not articulate his position diplomatically, but he has a point: In the current, more civilized wasteland, the BoS is ridiculous and they're frankly no more then raiders with fancy gear. The only way for there to be a place for them is if they radically change their ways and dogma and Veronica's quest clearly indicates that isn't going to happen. Mister Bates posted:To be fair, House is also an authoritarian absolute dictator who proposes to build an extremely strict and orderly police state with constant surveillance in which order is kept by an army of obscenely powerful robots under his direct control, where people can literally be killed for being too poor and anyone who played too nice with the NCR is slaughtered as a threat to his rule. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 20:46
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Iretep posted:From a roleplaying perspective is there any reason to feel all that bad killing the brotherhood of steel? At that point they are mainly just a bunch of raider jerks who take technology from people and as far as the courier knows thats pretty much all they are. They don't seem to be even willing to deal with risks to the wasteland anymore instead just making sure everyone stays in the stone age around them. Personally, I think the BoS were a lot more sympathetic in Fallout 3 than in New Vegas. I mean the Outcasts of course, since the regular Brotherhood in FO3 is a giant mess. The Outcasts still embrace the general idea of securing old war technology though. They are huge jerks to you, but given that the Capital Wasteland is infested with super mutants running around frying people with trilaser rifles, they have a point. Old world tech still feels dangerous and the Capital Wasteland is such a mess that nobody can keep it in check. So while they might not be nice, you can understand their motive. In New Vegas the Brotherhood are just an exclusive little club with an inflated sense of self importance. Unlike in the Capital Wasteland, their are actual organized factions like the NCR and Mr. House that feel way more competent. There's very little reason to think the Brotherhood should be keeping all the fancy tech to themselves when they aren't accomplishing anything. They are pretty useless now and I don't think the game wants you to side with them in their current incarnation. Which is why their quests involve either wiping them out or encouraging them to actually be useful. So no, aside from the morality of killing a bunch of people there isn't much of a reason to feel bad at blowing the Brotherhood up. Veronica is the biggest reason for you not to, but Veronica herself admits the Brotherhood is a complete mess. EDIT: Ugly In The Morning posted:As for the Mr. House chat, he's basically Conrad Hilton's portrayal in Mad Men. He seems like a kindly old man who's rich as hell and owns a bunch of hotels, til you don't do exactly what he wants, and then you see the ugly side. He also wants his poo poo on the moon. Eh, kindly definitely isn't how I would ever describe him. Dude has a massive ego and makes it pretty clear that everything has to go his way. He might not kill you just for disagreeing with him, but the second you do something that shows you won't play along with his desired plan he tries to kill you. I've actually never sided with him just because I hate how full of himself he is, and it feels so good to totally gently caress up his plans. Even if they are arguably the best direction for the Mojave. VVV Nope. It sucks, the Railway Rifle and Rock-It-Launcher were pretty fun, not sure why they dropped them. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 20:49
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Does this game have an weapon like the rock-it launcher? In fallout 3 I played a psychotic librarian who attempted to educate the wasteland by launching books into the skulls of everyone in sight and I'd like go continue my quest for enlightenment.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:52
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Thumbtacks posted:Does this game have an weapon like the rock-it launcher? In fallout 3 I played a psychotic librarian who attempted to educate the wasteland by launching books into the skulls of everyone in sight and I'd like go continue my quest for enlightenment. No, they had to cut it because of how the new ammo system works. There's probably a mod putting it back in though.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:58
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Internet Kraken posted:Personally, I think the BoS were a lot more sympathetic in Fallout 3 than in New Vegas. I mean the Outcasts of course, since the regular Brotherhood in FO3 is a giant mess. The Outcasts still embrace the general idea of securing old war technology though. They are huge jerks to you, but given that the Capital Wasteland is infested with super mutants running around frying people with trilaser rifles, they have a point. Old world tech still feels dangerous and the Capital Wasteland is such a mess that nobody can keep it in check. So while they might not be nice, you can understand their motive. Yeah, I actually found the Outcasts in FO3 more sympathetic than the 'actual' Brotherhood in FO3, even if the writers obviously wanted you to dislike the former and sympathize with the latter. The Outcasts actually have a point - the Capital Wasteland is a complete loving mess. There are a few small heavily-fortified enclaves of relative civilization here and there, but outside the walls of those settlements, the entire region is overrun with violent and territorial raider tribes, giant mutated monsters, feral ghouls, and Super Mutants. What few settlements exist are mostly operating on very basic knowledge and have little understanding of, or use for, advanced Old World technology, and without someone like the Outcasts stockpiling it in a safe location, you could make the argument that a lot of it would eventually be lost forever, dismantled or destroyed by random scavengers with no understanding of what it is they've found. Their stated mission of 'gathering the dying embers of civilization before the fire dies out completely' makes a pretty decent amount of sense on the East Coast. The main East Coast Brotherhood has some pretty high and lofty ideals, but they're ultimately an autocratic military organization ruled by a single absolute leader. A stateless army providing protection to people in exchange for resources and recruits sounds uncomfortably like a feudal system, and 'benevolently' doling out limited amounts of technology to your subjects on an as-needed basis sounds like an incredibly good way to maintain control.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:22
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Mister Bates posted:House promises to return civilization to the wastes, and has the knowledge and the technology to do it - but he's also going to rule as an immortal god-king, nearly omniscient, all-powerful, and intolerant of dissent. This is why i side with House- of all the factions, only he's got the ability and resources to see his goals through. True, those goals might not be the best for everyone, but whose is? The NCR talks a good game, but it's becoming too much like pre-War America, with big business holding the reins instead of a supposed democracy, and unlike House, the barons would have no other goal than lining their pockets. An independent Vegas would be nothing more than a speed bump for a resurgent Legion or NCR when they decide to give it another go. The Legion? Ha! Nope.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:46
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Mister Bates posted:
Which is still a major improvement for the people of the CW over what they had previously. The Brotherhood meanwhile back in the Core Region is pretty doomed, but that's not a reason for genociding them. Given how the NCR chose to deal with Enclave survivors (put them on trial for genocide, execute or throw them in jail), I have a feeling they would do the same thing to the BoS, which probably forces the Chapters to fight tooth and nail like they are just to not face the same fate.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:50
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CommissarMega posted:This is why i side with House- of all the factions, only he's got the ability and resources to see his goals through. True, those goals might not be the best for everyone, but whose is? The NCR talks a good game, but it's becoming too much like pre-War America, with big business holding the reins instead of a supposed democracy, and unlike House, the barons would have no other goal than lining their pockets. An independent Vegas would be nothing more than a speed bump for a resurgent Legion or NCR when they decide to give it another go. The Legion? Ha! Nope. I never quite understood why there wasn't an option to hand over the army of securitrons to the NCR. I get why the Legion would refuse it, but it seems like the NCR would welcome you taking control of a robot army when you are their number one field agent. I think you have a pretty weird vision of Mr. House though. He literally is a rich baron whose only goal is advancing his own interests. His interests just happen to be cleaning up New Vegas since he considers it "his". And while some people certainly benefit from his rule, his methods are awful and then end result isn't much better than what the NCR could setup given more resources. Mr. House just forces people to conform to his standards, and if you don't he either removes or kills you. His ego is so massive that he believes anything he desires is the proper path society should take. When you put House in power, you are supporting a tyrant. A tyrant slated to rule forever due to his technology. Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Which is still a major improvement for the people of the CW over what they had previously. Sort of, but the Brotherhood in FO3 is such a poorly thought out mess it isn't clear what putting them in charge even accomplishes. Even when project purity is finished, beggars supposedly still can't get water because the Brotherhood is keeping an iron grip on it, distributing it based on a totally arbitrary criteria. The Brotherhood in FO3 is a bunch of feel good idiots that just want to help everyone though, so it doesn't make sense that they would keep their lake full of clean water from others. That said, they are pretty much a necessity since they are the only thing keeping the DC super mutants from overwhelming the entire Capital Wasteland. Its just not clear what their exact motives are other than "shoot mutants and Enclave dudes". Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:02
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RBA Starblade posted:No, they had to cut it because of how the new ammo system works. There's probably a mod putting it back in though.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:15
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Internet Kraken posted:I never quite understood why there wasn't an option to hand over the army of securitrons to the NCR. I get why the Legion would refuse it, but it seems like the NCR would welcome you taking control of a robot army when you are their number one field agent. There apparently are securitron dialogue clips from the scrapped post game, where they have dialgoue for the possible factions who can win the dam still in the games code. House isn't a tyrant - he's a businessman. He states that he has no interest in ruling people, and will allow the people of the wasteland to carry on as normal. He can, however, sell them protection, water and power after winning the dam. Since he has no economic competitors, he can just reinvest the money into building more stuff - that's the whole point of the strip, to make money for him to find the platinum chip, so he can properly use his resources. House's ending means more jobs and protection for the wasteland - Freeside would really benefit. People cite the scripted bit with the Freeside thug as evidence that House will kill the poors, but it's pretty clear that the thugs aren't the average wastelander - they're the criminal element who have decided to prey on others. Remember that they're hostile to the player for no reason. The guy decided to rush a group of heavily armed robots at a security checkpoint. House does have a softer, even playful side, as his questline shows. House and a good courier is the best ending in my book. The Yes Man ending is just greedy and ruins whatever chance the Mojave has for a brighter future.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:16
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You keep saying independent Vegas is weaker then House, you do realize you still get the robot army with an independent ending?
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Dec 15, 2013 22:18
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Internet Kraken posted:I think you have a pretty weird vision of Mr. House though. He literally is a rich baron whose only goal is advancing his own interests. That is precisely it. He only fixates on New Vegas at the moment because it's the easiest thing to fix, but driving away the NCR and Legion from Hoover Dam isn't going to erase them entirely. Sooner or later, they'll be back. House predicted and was ready for the war (except for the Platinum Chip), he should be able to realize that the NCR and Legion are coming back. See, unlike the profit mongers of the NCR, House's self-interest would encompass centuries; where the former would be loathe to lose any short-term profits, House would be able to make some serious long-term investments. And unlike the ravening lunatics of the Legion, it would be in House's best interest to keep technological progression going forward- who knows, he might have his moon rocket one day. I know in terms of idealistic visions, the NCR has everything and everyone else beat, but it's incapable of carrying out said vision as long as people pull it in every direction at the same time. House's autocratic, capitalistic rule is far from ideal, but it does have its good points, and unless you kill him, he's the only person with the ability, resources, and most importantly, time to carry out said will. socialsecurity posted:You keep saying independent Vegas is weaker then House, you do realize you still get the robot army with an independent ending? But not House's immortality. The only other source I could think of for such technology would come from the Think Tank, and they weren't exactly stable, if you ask me. I mean, the most ethical among them was (spoiling to be safe) Dr. Mobius, and he was as loony as the rest of them, albeit still with his heart intact alongside his brain. Once the Courier dies, what then? CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:18
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People pulling in many different directions at once in a pluralistic society with a set of impersonal rules is a) capitalistic, unlike House's Randian agenda b) more conductive to prosperity than even the most enlightened dictatorship since it actually embodies the dialectics misrepresented by Caesar. Not to mention that even the most totalitarian societies were product of many brains battling against each other, not of one person with a straightforward plan. Delegating all power on one person is just a recipe for disaster. And claiming that House doensn't want to rule Vegas makes no sense. He who owns vital infrastruture, and more importantly he who reserves for himself legitimate use of violence IS a ruler by definition. Also, as Nietzsche said - if a nation can only be saved by one person, it deserves to be destroyed. Meaning that if House is Vegas' only hope to stay independent, then Vegas is a farce of a state and deserved the mercy killing that is coming its way. Edit: Re. Post Above: House's technological acumen isn't all that exceptional. The game is full of people more than willing to study and advance pre-war technology, but they are hampered by House's selfish insulation and secrecy. He and his technology is a cancer that would ultimately keep Vegas a prisoner of his ego until somebody could challenge his resources. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:32
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Why do people take House at his word when it comes to his abilities and motivations? The man is so egotistical that he describes himself as the last, best hope for mankind in the obituary he wrote for himself. He thinks that being an immortal tyrant is the best outcome for humanity, but he doesn't see the Yes Man scenario coming? House isn't as smart as he thinks, and that calls into question the utopian future he claims he can bring about.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:45
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Democracy is not inherently superior to autocracy, and the fundamental problem with monarchy (succession) is solved with House's tech. I have no idea why people think House kills people for being poor, and as far as "do as i say or i'll kill you"...well hell, the NCR does that in spades. They order you to kill House for the terrible, terrible crime of being in the way, and unless Courier Jesus keeps on their rear end for the entire game, they attack the Followers and the Kings and the Boomers and the BoS and the Khans who ally with them and and and And what happens in the future, when the victorious NCR discovers another independent city-state in Oregon or where-ever and Courier Jesus isn't there? The NCR doesn't respect treaties or the right of other states to exist. more friedman units posted:Why do people take House at his word when it comes to his abilities and motivations? Vegas isn't a radioactive crater.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:50
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steinrokkan posted:Also, as Nietzsche said - if a nation can only be saved by one person, it deserves to be destroyed. Meaning that if House is Vegas' only hope to stay independent, then Vegas is a farce of a state and deserved the mercy killing that is coming its way. So is this also a condemnation of the Yes Man route, since that one man is the Courier, or an endorsement, since the Courier destroys everyone else?
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Dec 15, 2013 22:53
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OldMemes posted:House isn't a tyrant - he's a businessman. He states that he has no interest in ruling people, and will allow the people of the wasteland to carry on as normal. He can, however, sell them protection, water and power after winning the dam. Since he has no economic competitors, he can just reinvest the money into building more stuff - that's the whole point of the strip, to make money for him to find the platinum chip, so he can properly use his resources. He is a tyrant. He seizes absolute control over the Mojave and does not allow anyone to come close to challenging him. He has no economic competitors because he would never allow anyone to come close to his level of control. Furthermore, he forces everyone on the Strip to play by his rules and pay him for everything that happens on the Strip. He basically does tax people just like the NCR does, only instead of the taxes going to a government it goes to one man who uses it all solely to focus on his agenda. Even if House was a completely good person with no negative sides, putting him in a position of absolute power is still bad. Nobody should rule forever. House will never step down. So if for whatever reason Mr.Houses's motives change for the worse, you now have a man with uncontested power able to act on whatever whims he has. That's hardly a good thing. Byzantine posted:Vegas isn't a radioactive crater. Stopping some bombs with his hyper advanced technology doesn't qualify him to rule. Vegas had been going on living without him while he sat in his bunker waiting for an opportunity to seize total control. Then when he does come back, he immediately crushes all the tribes, forces them to completely change to their beliefs, and then sets up the Strip for the sole sake of earning money for himself. Mr.House stopped the bombs, but he didn't save civilization; he just came in and took control when civilization came back on its own. And the NCR isn't some big evil blob filled solely with people that have selfish intentions. It will change over time as more people get involved in it. There's no conclusive proof that the NCR as a whole will turn evil. As opposed to Mr.House where all it would take is him getting one bad idea to gently caress everything up since he has the power to act on it. EDIT: And its funny you would criticize the NCR for potentially not respecting the right of future independent provinces when the very first thing Mr.House did after coming back was crush a bunch of independents and force them to join him. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:55
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steinrokkan posted:Edit: Re. Post Above: House's technological acumen isn't all that exceptional. The game is full of people more than willing to study and advance pre-war technology, but they are hampered by House's selfish insulation and secrecy. He and his technology is a cancer that would ultimately keep Vegas a prisoner of his ego until somebody could challenge his resources. I believe House did say he would be willing to share his technology at a later date. more friedman units posted:Why do people take House at his word when it comes to his abilities and motivations? The man is so egotistical that he describes himself as the last, best hope for mankind in the obituary he wrote for himself. He thinks that being an immortal tyrant is the best outcome for humanity, but he doesn't see the Yes Man scenario coming? I like to think House saw the yes man scenario coming but was naive enough to think the courier wasn't greedy enough to take it.
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Dec 15, 2013 22:57
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Lotish posted:So is this also a condemnation of the Yes Man route, since that one man is the Courier, or an endorsement, since the Courier destroys everyone else? To be honest, even though I've chosen the Yes Man route on all three playthroughs, I don't know what exactly it accomplishes. The way I understand the ending is that you as the Courier basically let the various communities of Mojave to self-govern, for better or for worse. Byzantine posted:Democracy is not inherently superior to autocracy. quote:Vegas isn't a radioactive crater.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:01
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It says a lot for the story in New Vegas that 3 years later people are bothering to argue about it and character motivations. You don't see similar discussion about Fallout 3 or Skyrim.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:08
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steinrokkan posted:Romans didn't make Scipio a dictator for life just because he saved Rome from destruction by Carthagian hand. Americans didn't give Patton political power because he led their forces against the Nazis (and when they did elect Eisenhower, they did it on a regular basis). The British didn't elevate Churchill to a position of extraordinary authority. House played a great role in preserving the city 200 years ago, that doesn't grant him any right to usurp political power over it. Without House the only politics going on in Vegas would be either do you go to the raiders who shoot and rob you or go to the raiders that shoot, rob and serve you medium rare to their buddies.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:08
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I'm really enjoying these varying discussions. My first time playing the game I sided strongly with the NCR, roleplaying myself as a disgraced military surgeon with an alcohol addiction that took up wandering the wasteland to escape his demons before redeeming himself in the eyes of his original people by handing them the Mojave. Right now I'm strongly leaning towards blowing Legion and NCR both up, but can't decide if I want to go with House or Yes Man, and the anxiety of making a decision is keeping me from pursuing a lot of quests that would lean me one way or another. If you nuke the NCR or side with House, do Cass and Boone cut ties with you for harming the NCR?
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Dec 15, 2013 23:09
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This thread tends to overstate the problems of the NCR, and understate the problems of House. The NCR is self-interested, but it's also a functional democracy (listen to all the various gamblers on the strip. These are the policies that they want, for better or worse) and egalitarian enough to place women and ghouls in positions of prestige and power (the Rangers.) And in a devastated post-Armageddon wasteland, it's rich enough to have a burgeoning industry of tourism - in fact, one that's strong enough to support House. A lot of the leadership is flawed, but the great thing about the NCR is that its leadership is actually mortal and accountable to things besides itself. In addition, an NCR-Idolized Courier is a massively respected and powerful figure by the end of the game, probably to the extent that they could influence future NCR policy. Whereas Mr. House is completely unaccountable, and completely immortal. He's a technocrat, but a 200-year-old technocrat, and he's already made some mistakes managing the Strip - consider that all three of his casino families have some plotters against his designs. And he's not in a position to adapt his vision very well to externalities such as the NCR's economy, sealed in a casino basement. It is an immortal, absolute autocracy, and I feel as if there are many ways in which society would be unable to grow in such a system. Who need to build institutions? House already makes the rules and feeds those who disagree to the robots - why would he stop with more power and more robots?
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Dec 15, 2013 23:11
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Iretep posted:Without House the only politics going on in Vegas would be either do you go to the raiders who shoot and rob you or go to the raiders that shoot, rob and serve you medium rare to their buddies. So what? If you give somebody a kidney, does it make them your slave?
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Dec 15, 2013 23:12
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steinrokkan posted:So what? If you give somebody a kidney, does it make them your slave? House didnt have slaves. Everyone working under him had something to gain and did of their own free will. Infact wasnt slavery illigal in Vegas?
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Dec 15, 2013 23:15
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Byzantine posted:Democracy is not inherently superior to autocracy, and the fundamental problem with monarchy (succession) is solved with House's tech. All of these critiques apply equally to Mr. House. He orders the Brotherhood destroyed for their future threat, not what they are doing now - exactly like the way Col. Moore rationalizes getting rid of House, and House has actually provoked the NCR more directly by writing a mandatory cut of electricity and NCR vacation time into treaty. And he established the current state of the casino tribes and Freeside with raw force.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:17
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Iretep posted:House didnt have slaves. Infact wasnt slavery illigal in Vegas? He did claim dominion over the strip, and he planned to become the sole military actor in the region. That alone makes him a tyrant / dictator according to any existing metric. And while relationship between a tyrant and a subject may not be exactly that of a master and a slave, it is most definitely bereft of liberty.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:21
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Lotish posted:If you nuke the NCR or side with House, do Cass and Boone cut ties with you for harming the NCR? Boone will be a dick any time you have a negative NCR reputation, including nuking them. Cass will only leave if you have negative karma, I think NCR reputation doesn't matter. Besides, you can avoid the reputation bullshit by wearing an NCR uniform when you talk to them. They're completely fooled by it. "Wearing a bloody NCR uniform? He's totally on the level! He wouldn't murder someone and change into their clothes at all!"
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Dec 15, 2013 23:22
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Iretep posted:House didnt have slaves. Everyone working under him had something to gain and did of their own free will. Infact wasnt slavery illigal in Vegas? This is completely wrong. When Mr.House sent out his securitrons, the very first thing he did was tell the local tribes they had two options; work for Mr.House or leave. Those that refused were either killed or forced out. House didn't have any right to all that territory, he just had the biggest guns and thus was allowed to do what he wanted. Those that did stay had to follow his rules, which involved completely destroying all their values and beliefs in favor of making them into ridiculous parodies of old world society. To top it off, House didn't even really get rid of their negative values. He didn't reeducate them, he just told them to do what he said or get shot. Oh and then there was him flooding Vault 13 with concrete just because there might be some stuff in it that could potentially cause problems for him. EDIT: Also, I think people really overstate the value of House as a leader. If you kill him, basically nothing changes. The Strip continues functioning as if he was still alive. This is because right now, House isn't providing much in the way of leadership. He's just pointing his fancy guns at people and demanding they follow his rules. Literally anyone with access to his securitron army can do the same exact thing. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 23:24
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Speaking of Cass, is it in any way possible to prevent companions from using up superior ammo on low-tier enemies? I think she's the best sidekick character, but she always pumps all of her specialty shotgun shells into the first bloatfly she spots from half way across the map. VVV Well, yeah, but if I go on a mission I can't always anticipate whether the next enemy is going to be a deathclaw or a giant mantis. Also, constantly micromanaging companion inventory using Fallout's UI is a major pain. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 23:27
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