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2-1 grind is nearly always the best way to win. Stalling is the norm in hardcore play. Even with agility teams. Open league play on the other hand...
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Dec 16, 2013 02:39
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Coolguye posted:2-1 grind only really applies during an agile team vs a bashy team, because it constitutes the only way the bashy team can even THINK about getting a win out of the game with their lower scoring potential. Bash vs Bash and agile vs agile have a lot of different methods of play. This only really applies in certain mirror match scenarios, as long as you got a single point more in av or more MB you should 2-1 grind. A delf team should never get in a shoot out with a pro elf team. The only time you would ever consider choosing to receive the ball is when you got so much claw pomb that you can end the match in the first couple of turns and even here it often a bad choice since you put your faith in the dice. Stallig is one of the hardest things to do properly in this game and moving a four point cage down to the endzone in 8 turns without rolling a single d6 and always keeping the corners of the cage clear, is the highest level of play this game has to offer.
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Dec 16, 2013 10:52
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I just played my first online match and it ended up being a 40 second timer.  Holy gently caress are those ever brutal, you can get like 3-4 guys activated tops thanks to lag when choosing your dice role results and push squares. Whomever designed that deserves to be shot. I just barely managed to score the single touchdown of the game thanks to turtling up around my hobgoblin and moving like 3 squares every turn.On the other hand, my Chaos Dwarves killed 2 Gunners (one of them got apothecary'ed and still died) and 1 thrower, injured 1 lineman with a concussion, and badly hurt 1 a Stormvermin.
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Dec 17, 2013 10:45
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Hipster Occultist posted:I just played my first online match and it ended up being a 40 second timer. Victor Vermis posted:Don't forget to set your desired turn length to 4 minutes before using the matchmaker. The default setting is a minimum of 40 seconds per turn which is an awful way to learn. 
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Dec 17, 2013 11:25
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Yeah my opponent helpfully pointed that out to me after I killed a third of his team. 
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Dec 17, 2013 12:38
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I used to play the Boardgame about a decade ago, so when I saw the huge sale on Steam I just went for it. So far I have just done some AI campaign stuff, so I suppose I cannot bring that team in an online match. What kind of league/tournament/online play would be the best way to start out with a rookie team without getting completely slaughtered and getting all my better players killed?
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Dec 17, 2013 16:51
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Orcs are pretty good for not having your entire team die on the pitch in one game. So are Dwarves but playing Dwarves kind of makes you a bad person so there's that. As far as getting your feet wet on online, hang out in #tgbloodbowl on SynIRC and bother people until you get a couple of teams in our private league. Playing with goons will keep you away from the biggest nerdfaces in matchmaking, both in terms of build and in general character. It's not fun to run up against some rear end in a top hat who's got claw pomb nurgle warriors and 0/6 spp players on the rest of his team, so he's really only like TV 1300, hyuck hyuck oh so clever. Open league play is fine after you've got your bearings, it's just a really bad experience to random your way into one of the more toxic idiots it has to offer in your first 10 games or so. Washout posted:2-1 grind is nearly always the best way to win. Stalling is the norm in hardcore play. Even with agility teams. Obviously, the here joke is that it mostly got shitcanned because it didn't sell enough minis, but this is part of the reason it didn't sell enough minis.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:11
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Coolguye posted:Yeah I'm pretty much always referring to open league play in this thread. High level/hardcore play gets a little white washed in Blood Bowl, which is one of the minor reasons why it ended up getting mostly shitcanned by GW and we haven't seen any sort of update to the rules in 10 years. It's nowhere near as bad as the Age of Rushes back in Starcraft 1, where literally every loving game was resolved by who could spam a specific unit faster, but it still ends up looking pretty drat samey. It's been 3 years since the last update. That's not bad for a 23 year old niche product. I think the big problem is that some of the fixes bloodbowl really needs for competative play probably make it a bit less bloodbowl, and no one wants that.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:19
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ShineDog posted:I think the big problem is that some of the fixes bloodbowl really needs for competative play probably make it a bit less bloodbowl, and no one wants that. I can't really ever see bloodbowl being competitive for this reason, at its core it's a gambling game and there is just too much random to have a proper competitive setting. There's still a decent amount of skill involved in managing those gambles, but the fact that it is possible to lose regardless of that skill doesn't mesh well with large tournaments. I doubt anyone wants the random taken out though, because doing a gfi with reroll and knowing that it still has the potential to kill your dude makes almost every action tense and exciting.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:36
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ShineDog posted:It's been 3 years since the last update. That's not bad for a 23 year old niche product. FoolyCharged posted:I can't really ever see bloodbowl being competitive for this reason, at its core it's a gambling game and there is just too much random to have a proper competitive setting. There's still a decent amount of skill involved in managing those gambles, but the fact that it is possible to lose regardless of that skill doesn't mesh well with large tournaments.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:02
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Random elements do not necessarily mean the game cannot be competitive. Just look at Monopoly or even Settlers of Catan. Two mainstream games that are totally full of randomness. I do like the amount of randomness in the game, and yeah sometimes it will cost you a game. But if it didn't have any random effects cookie-cutter teams would be all over and Joke teams would not exist at all. And those are exactly the most fun to play.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:13
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Coolguye posted:And when was the last time taking Block was a bad idea? uhh when you want wrestle instead or when min/maxing. BB is a drinking game and even us who play at the competetive level treat it as such. The randomness is what makes the game what it is, no matter if i aim to 2-1 grind and roll less than 10 d6 during the game some thing is still gonna go wrong and present a fun or absurd situation.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:21
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Evernoob posted:Random elements do not necessarily mean the game cannot be competitive. Just look at Monopoly or even Settlers of Catan. Two mainstream games that are totally full of randomness. Monopoly might be mainstream, but it's not a competetive game. Hell, it's actually a gimmick game designed specifically so that the first person to take the lead runs away with the game and no one else has a good time. Evernoob posted:IIRC the last major rules update was in 2003 with 4th edition gold or whatever the hell it got called. Am I missing an update here? Yep. after 4th came the Living rulebook which pdated over the next decade or so. it's mostly small changes, some new teams, tweaks to certain skills and creature stats, changes to certain metagame elements (spiraling expenses, handicaps moved over to inducements, and some tinkering to TV rules). It's on LRB6, which I believe is regarded as final and also known as the CRP (competetive rules pack) The BB videogame started on LRB 5 and moved to LRB 6 as of LE I thiiink.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:28
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Has anyone heard anything about BB2 in the last while?
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Dec 17, 2013 22:50
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Is there a goon league for this? Me and some of my buddies just picked it up and are looking to play with people besides eachother. E: do people still play in the goon league I should ask Miltank fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 23:05
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Miltank posted:Is there a goon league for this? Me and some of my buddies just picked it up and are looking to play with people besides eachother. just join Auld its not as bad as people make it out to be and you can always find a game by using the match making feature.
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Dec 17, 2013 23:28
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ZigZag posted:just join Auld its not as bad as people make it out to be and you can always find a game by using the match making feature. Jesus christ no. Join Naggaroth. Auld is packed full of farmed teams. Nag requires you to join with a fresh team. That said, goons play in the Giant Goon League, join us in IRC #tgbloodbowl on synirc and there will probably be someone around to play with.
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Dec 17, 2013 23:45
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Leperflesh posted:Jesus christ no. Join Naggaroth. Auld is packed full of farmed teams. Nag requires you to join with a fresh team. I got several teams in both and the only real diffrence between the two is that its harder to get a match in nagg. There is no diffrence between meeting a proper optimized team thats played 50+ matches or meeting a farmed one. I played probaly around 700 matches in auld an i have only encountered a few farmed team. As far as i know its only furril who really does that anyway and he at least takes it to the next level.
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Dec 18, 2013 00:56
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A winning strategy that is unable to cope with bad die rolls is not a winning strategy. 
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Dec 18, 2013 01:31
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I barely ever have problems getting games on Auld and rarely are the opposing teams bullshit. Plus that's where my elfy humans are and I just love playing with them.
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Dec 18, 2013 01:36
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Yeah, honestly, farmed teams on Auld are not that big a problem. Perhaps when it first came out but not now. The biggest issue with teams nowadays (and probably earlier as well) is that they're often lovely, and the coach will quit midway through the first half if they're doing too badly.
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Dec 18, 2013 02:25
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Ok well in fairness I haven't tried to play on Auld for like two years now. So yeah maybe people figured out that farmed teams are boring as poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2013 06:28
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Yeah Auld isn't bad from a mechanical perspective. I just don't recommend doing it for the first 5-10 games you play online precisely because a lot of the opposing coaches are sorta lovely people. People still play in the goon league, but you'll need to come into IRC to actually grab a match.ZigZag posted:uhh when you want wrestle instead or when min/maxing.
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Dec 18, 2013 06:46
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Coaches ragequitting is the main reason to avoid Auld when you start. Nothing like getting your rear end kicked for a few games only to have the coach ragequit as soon as you start doing well. When I first got BB I had so many coaches ragequit (and it's not like I was any good) that I was convinced there was an issue with my port forwarding.
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Dec 18, 2013 11:34
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cmndstab posted:Coaches ragequitting is the main reason to avoid Auld when you start. Nothing like getting your rear end kicked for a few games only to have the coach ragequit as soon as you start doing well. Thats the same for any league, it even happens in goon bowl, ragequiting and calling people faggots is the cornerstones of online gaming.
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Dec 18, 2013 13:40
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I would really appreciate it if the developers (of BB2) would implement an online modus where you could play a game against someone who is hardly ever online at the same time, on a turn to turn basis (much like play-by-email/forum). I have been playing a lot of Twilight Imperium by forum, and compared to that, Blood Bowl pbf is a joke in complexity. So you could load the game, play your turn (the only actions an opponent has to do during your turn are possible red blocks), then save the game. When the other player gets online he does his turn, and it's back to you. A game like that could take over a week, but compared to 6month+ TI3 games I wouldn't mind at all  But then again, there would never be enough support for a crazy thing like that, would there?
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Dec 18, 2013 15:25
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Sometimes our opponent has to pick which dice are used in your blocks.
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Dec 18, 2013 15:27
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I guess I stopped playing BB because the optimal way to play is to play super safe grindy strats, and that there's not enough high flying endzone to endzone stuff for me. I dunno, maybe i'm just not in it so much for the 'LOL VIOLENCE' stuff.
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Dec 18, 2013 15:30
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Miltank posted:Sometimes our opponent has to pick which dice are used in your blocks. Yes, that's what I called a "red block". Dunno what the official word for it is though. a "-2 die block"? I started playing again together with a friend. He has a typical stunty Dwarf team, that calls a game with less than 4 casualties on the other side a bad game. I play a versatile Vampire team (not saying that it's good though) and just try to win by avoidance and quick passes and runs. At the end of each game he gets at least the double amount of SPP's than I do. Is that a typical thing or am I just not making enough "big plays".
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Dec 18, 2013 15:44
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Evernoob posted:Yes, that's what I called a "red block". Dunno what the official word for it is though. a "-2 die block"? The way you get SPP is through scoring (3 SPP for the scorer), getting casualties (2 SPP for the puncher), completed passes (1 SPP for the person who throws the ball) or interceptions (2 SPP for the interceptor which is more of a bonus than anything because having a dedicated, successful interceptor is basically impossible). At the end of each game one of your players randomly gets 5 SPP for what's called "MVP". However, if you have a player that dies or is seriously hurt he is also eligible for the MVP. So...... the short of it is that yeah, vampires are hard to get SPP for. The more the dwarfs maim your team and rack up SPP through casualties, the higher level his players will get and the more the advantage will snowball out of control. Additionally, even though the odds of a dead player getting MVP are as likely as any other player, Murphy's Law dictates that your dead player will get MVP all the time, robbing you of what could possibly be your only SPP in the match
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Dec 18, 2013 16:37
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Miltank posted:Sometimes our opponent has to pick which dice are used in your blocks. When you choose to punch a guy, you're comparing your Strength roll to his. Say you're a human team, playing against a black orc team. Your human blitzer (ST 3) tries to punch a Line orc (ST 3). Because you have equal Strength stats, you roll one dice block. If you try to punch a goblin (ST2), you have the Strength advantage and get to roll two dice blocks and pick. However, if you try to punch a Black Orc (ST4), you have the strength disadvantage, and you roll two dice but he gets to pick. Obviously this is ill-advised, but if you want to punch a strong opponent you'll have to get in some assists. Every one of your "unmarked" players standing next to the target gives you a +1 to your Strength check. So, for example code:The comparison would be his ST4 to your ST3 but the assist gives you a +1 so you're essentially comparing ST4 to ST4, giving you a one dice block. The same is true in reverse, as shown here code:However, to wipe out a player's assist modifier, you can simply place one of your players next to them, because only unmarked players can give a Strength modifier on a punch (unless you have Guard, a skill that allows you to always give a strength modifier). For example code:Hopefully that makes sense? There have been a couple LP's of Blood Bowl and they all (I think) had videos that introduce a lot of the basics that the game isn't good about showing you, such as what dice do what. Look for cKnoor's, Yapo's and/or Agent 355's LPs of the game and they should have an introductory video.
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Dec 18, 2013 16:49
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He was just pointing out that an issue with a Words with Friends type of format for a Blood Bowl game would be that a player cannot always complete their turn entirely on their own- sometimes the other player has to provide some input. Good stuff, though!
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Dec 18, 2013 16:50
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Oh wow well that's what I get for not actually reading the thread 
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Dec 18, 2013 16:53
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Panzeh posted:I guess I stopped playing BB because the optimal way to play is to play super safe grindy strats, and that there's not enough high flying endzone to endzone stuff for me. I dunno, maybe i'm just not in it so much for the 'LOL VIOLENCE' stuff. I get a huge kick out of making completely crazy plays that go against every normal strategy you should use. Sure, they don't ever go to plan but a lot of the time the opponent gets so confused they don't really know how to defend and then you're one lucky roll away from a touchdown. When you're a bit outmatched it's way more fun than trying a typical cage grind that might well not be strong enough.
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Dec 18, 2013 18:38
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Panzeh posted:I guess I stopped playing BB because the optimal way to play is to play super safe grindy strats, and that there's not enough high flying endzone to endzone stuff for me. I dunno, maybe i'm just not in it so much for the 'LOL VIOLENCE' stuff. Also, Evernoob, Vampires are among the worst teams in the game generally, and quite probably the worst to play against Dwarves (Zons at least start with 4 Block players). None of your players have any kind of survivability skills, your Thralls are kinda overcosted when they get Block/Wrestle (if you're playing this one guy a lot, get Wrestle to counter all his block), and once the Thralls are gone, your Vampires are inevitably going to snake Blood Lust rolls on the turn they could get into the endzone and score. Vamp teams have quite big problems getting SPP because of these things. Dwarves will almost always get quite a lot of SPP, unless you can absolutely crush their LoS and then stamp their Blitzers to death/surf their guys and just maim them a lot better, but this is somewhat implausible for Vamps. Or anyone, really, other than like Clawpomb Chaos/Nurgle (neither of which is super fun to play, especially Nurgle, since all of their matches ever are 1-1 draws, and it takes ages for their non-Pestigor players to get SPP).
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Dec 18, 2013 19:05
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It's not so much that it's hard to get SPPs on Vamps as the spead of SPPs is totally focused on the Vampires and the rest of the team get nothing. If you want to play a Vampire team you need to stock up on rerolls and be prepared to only use a few select players for the important stuff. Which against a decent coach is going to be a problem since she can just focus down your Vamps and you're in trouble. Also the fact that you'll probably take out more thralls on your own than the opposing coach is not going to help you. Basically don't play Vamps if you're new to the game. Oh and get Pro on them as soon as you can. Panzeh posted:I guess I stopped playing BB because the optimal way to play is to play super safe grindy strats, and that there's not enough high flying endzone to endzone stuff for me. I dunno, maybe i'm just not in it so much for the 'LOL VIOLENCE' stuff. If you don't want your opponent to punch you then don't leave your guys next to his guys. Do proper elf screening and he should only be getting one block per turn, the blitz. You should probably still do a 2 - 1 grind is possible. Controlling the flow of the game means you win the game (usually)
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Dec 19, 2013 01:11
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ZigZag posted:Thats the same for any league, it even happens in goon bowl, ragequiting and calling people faggots is the cornerstones of online gaming. I can't speak to the Goonbowl since I haven't played in one, but the GGL, the open league we play and the one people have been suggesting instead, has pretty much a total dearth of this shittiness. I've played many dozens of games with those guys and only had one guy ragequit on me. And that was after I killed an AG3 Sure Hands Ogre (on an Ogre team). And the Apothecary rerolled to Dead. You shouldn't ragequit, sure, but that's kind of understandable.
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Dec 19, 2013 01:18
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Eh, I've played in a few games with goons where they've said "This isn't worth it" and pulled the plug. It's more common that they'll say "this isn't fun any more" and concede, but you do get the occasional ragequit.
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Dec 19, 2013 01:46
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There's maybe three or four goons who will do that, and we all know who they are.
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Dec 19, 2013 02:48
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Panzeh posted:I guess I stopped playing BB because the optimal way to play is to play super safe grindy strats, and that there's not enough high flying endzone to endzone stuff for me. I dunno, maybe i'm just not in it so much for the 'LOL VIOLENCE' stuff. Start playing vampires, pro elves, and skaven. And to the guy who play vamps against dwarves over and over, jesus don't do that, you are basically letting him farm your team for spp. Start up an orc team and make him start over and then you can have some more even games. Washout fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 06:49
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