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BreakAtmo posted:I heard they're just going with the new version of Waller from the New 52 (and another recent appearance which I don't want to spoil). Yeah, and it was dumb there too.
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Dec 20, 2013 16:03
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Kai Tave posted:Really, Arrow? No CCH Pounder for Amanda Waller? C'mon son, that's practically a gimme. No points there. Really, squandering any chance to cast CCH Pounder is just sad.  recast Laurel as her, with no explanation.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:02
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To be fair, in the spoiler one, they did at least bring her to do the voice of Waller again.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:08
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Eddain posted:I can't wait for her descent into vertigo addiction. It's a shame Mirakuru can't actually bring people back from the dead... Starling City needs more Vertigo in it's life.  * Yet.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:12
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Eddain posted:I can't wait for her descent into vertigo addiction. 
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Dec 20, 2013 18:13
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Speaking of the Count, just finished that episode. Three thoughts: 1). The Count recovered pretty nicely from being completely and utterly insane in season one. "Oh yeah, after he got over having his brain and nervous system curbstomped by a massive drug overdose they moved him to normal person prison." Nice scene with him and the Dollmaker. 2). Holy poo poo that trial. Like, even by the standards of televisual legal shenanigans this is ridiculous. Sure, let's go ahead and put the defendant's son's on-again-off-again girlfriend and long-time family friend in to head up the prosecution. Conflict of interest? What's that? This is where my suspenders of disbelief snap because it just smacks of contrivance...we have to find a way to wedge Laurel in there somewhere so gently caress it, whatever. Sorry show, you don't get a pass on this one, that's just sloppy. 3). Speaking of contrivance, my problem with the whole "Ollie breaks his vow not to kill" thing is that it really highlights how wildly his super-archery skills fluctuate whenever the writers want it to. He can shoot the tennis ball out of someone's hand, disarm someone without so much as nicking them, but the moment somebody needs to taunt Ollie over his newfound respect for the sanctity of life all of that goes out the window. The Count standing up during the whole drug lab part where Ollie rescues the DA and practically daring him to take a shot is especially egregious in this regard since only a couple few episodes prior Ollie's happily demonstrating to Quintin Lance that he can still shoot someone in the shoulder just fine thank you, but then we have the standoff with Felicity caught in the middle and, again, Ollie's super-accuracy powers mysteriously vanish all so there can be a dramatic moment where, gasp shock, he kills again. No points there either.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:28
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While I 100% agree on all those Laurel points the last one I felt that Ollie could have shot him non-lethally if he really wanted too, he just decided to kill him cause you don't gently caress with his friends. (Yes I know Felicity made it seem like that wasn't the choice, but eh)
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Dec 20, 2013 18:37
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It's not that he couldn't disable the Count with a well placed arrow, it's just that he realized he'll keep coming back again and again to threaten everyone he cared about, so he decided the best course of action was to take him out for good. You know, just like Batman and Joker, except that he's not scared of killing.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:38
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That and the Count figured out who he was. That's a no good for a secret identity.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:40
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Kai Tave posted:Speaking of the Count, just finished that episode. Three thoughts: His skills didn't vanish, he chose to break his rule. The risks of leaving the Count alive were too great, as was the risk that Felicity would get hurt if he tried to make a non-lethal shot. No one is perfect and I don't think Ollie wanted to push his luck when Felicity's life was on the line.
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Dec 20, 2013 18:46
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Well, maybe Laurel getting assigned was Merlym pulling strings as a backup plan. Maybe he arragned it so they would have grounds to file an appeal on conflict of interest if his jury tampering didn't work
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Dec 20, 2013 18:46
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That scene was basically what I have always wanted from Batman and the Joker. After his millionth incident of mass-murder this month...  Kill me, Bats! You know you want to. Fine. Wait, what? And all the people rejoiced. 
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Dec 20, 2013 18:52
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Spergatory posted:
The recent Injustice game was especially nice in regards to this. You get to see just how far Superman could take things if he decided "gently caress this, the gloves are coming off" 
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Dec 20, 2013 19:01
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bunnyofdoom posted:Well, maybe Laurel getting assigned was Merlym pulling strings as a backup plan. Maybe he arragned it so they would have grounds to file an appeal on conflict of interest if his jury tampering didn't work "Let's see, where could I get the most incompetent lawyer in such short notice so Moira wins the trail... oh wait, I think I have just the right person."
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Dec 20, 2013 19:10
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Krad posted:"Let's see, where could I get the most incompetent lawyer in such short notice so Moira wins the trail... oh wait, I think I have just the right person." It all makes perfect sense now.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:12
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TheChad posted:While I 100% agree on all those Laurel points the last one I felt that Ollie could have shot him non-lethally if he really wanted too, he just decided to kill him cause you don't gently caress with his friends. To paraphrase season 1, he spends his nights putting arrows in people so when it comes to acceptable, he grades on a curve.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:26
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Krad posted:"Let's see, where could I get the most incompetent lawyer in such short notice so Moira wins the trail... oh wait, I think I have just the right person." Legit, if it was revealed Merlyn did this as well as futzing with the jury later on in the season I would give mad writing props to the writers. Unfortunately I REALLY doubt this would be the case. But still, it would be nice. 
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Dec 20, 2013 19:41
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Drifter posted:Legit, if it was revealed Merlyn did this as well as futzing with the jury later on in the season I would give mad writing props to the writers. More likely: Merlyn: "Raghh I fixed the jury but AMAZING detective-lawyer Laurel Lance nearly foiled my brilliant plan, Rarghh!" (They have some sort of Laurel shaped blindspot so I never trust them when it comes to her.)
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Dec 20, 2013 19:47
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Slade arranged for Moira to get off because simply killing her wasn't enough punishment for Ollie.  Although now that we know Brother Blood isn't working for the LoA I wonder if we're going to see some friction between Ras and Slade eventually.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:48
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Drifter posted:Legit, if it was revealed Merlyn did this as well as futzing with the jury later on in the season I would give mad writing props to the writers. I really, really want Plan C to have been "Get myself elected DA", because that's exactly the kind of comic book crazy I think the show and BARROWMAN!!!  can pull off.
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Dec 20, 2013 19:59
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WarLocke posted:Slade arranged for Moira to get off because simply killing her wasn't enough punishment for Ollie. What are the odds that Merlyn is in Slade's pocket? It would certainly delineate factions between Slade, Oliver, and Ra's al Ghul nicely.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:05
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Warmachine posted:What are the odds that Merlyn is in Slade's pocket? It would certainly delineate factions between Slade, Oliver, and Ra's al Ghul nicely. Destroying the Glades would fit neatly into the "Make Oliver suffer" plan. Hrmm... Actually no, the timeline is all wrong.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:08
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Merlyn is too awesome to have Slade as his superior.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:21
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Drifter posted:Legit, if it was revealed Merlyn did this as well as futzing with the jury later on in the season I would give mad writing props to the writers. Didn't Merlyn flat out tell Moira he did influenced the jury to find her innocent during his reveal scene?
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Dec 20, 2013 20:35
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I'm going to have to say I disagree with everyone else interpretation of the Count scene. This wasn't Ollie deciding to kill another person to stop him from committing future crimes. (Which incidentally, is pretty much murder. Something which comics traditionally have avoided having heroes do. Yes they will kill, but very rarely will they out and out murder someone.) I saw the scene that as soon as Vertigo pushed Ollie with that taunt/ he saw him move, he kust reacted and shot him three times. I put it down to Ollie's super honed reflexes with a bit of comic book treatment of archery to indicate that "yeah shooting off three arrows like that is a response from him." But if you look at the scene, afterwards Ollie appears a bit shocked and digussted by what he's done, but not the satisfied look of a man who has made a rational decision to kill. Rather, he loves/cares (depending on where you stand on the shipping debate) about Felicity that when she was threatened, this highly trained vigilante with some PTSD issues will just react badly. Kind of like jumping in front of a paranoid boxer and shouting "Booga Booga!" and being surprised when he just floors you.
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Dec 20, 2013 20:54
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That's a pretty good interpretation of that scene that I really like. Enough people in his life have been hosed up by Vertigo that as soon as he saw the opportunity, Island Instinct took over and he dropped the Count like a body from a balcony.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:02
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The father is definitely Ray. Mochaccino babies.
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Dec 20, 2013 22:27
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Kai Tave posted:2). Holy poo poo that trial. Like, even by the standards of televisual legal shenanigans this is ridiculous. Sure, let's go ahead and put the defendant's son's on-again-off-again girlfriend and long-time family friend in to head up the prosecution. Conflict of interest? What's that? This is where my suspenders of disbelief snap because it just smacks of contrivance...we have to find a way to wedge Laurel in there somewhere so gently caress it, whatever. Sorry show, you don't get a pass on this one, that's just sloppy. She said that in the episode. It's not even a suspension of disbelief thing because they outright said it and did it anyway. quote:I'm going to have to say I disagree with everyone else interpretation of the Count scene. This wasn't Ollie deciding to kill another person to stop him from committing future crimes. (Which incidentally, is pretty much murder. Something which comics traditionally have avoided having heroes do. Yes they will kill, but very rarely will they out and out murder someone.) Ollie is a murderer.
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Dec 20, 2013 23:48
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Narciss posted:The father is definitely Ray. Mochaccino babies. Aaand this is the arrow thread not the Archer one.
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Dec 20, 2013 23:51
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Ollie straight up killed those three hooded kidnappers in the pilot episode, and the third guy was even begging for his life.
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Dec 20, 2013 23:55
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It's more realistic for him to not like killing, to avoid killing, but if he has to kill. Let's not forget the Prison break out. Oliver killing is something that is actually part of the character, that's what makes him different. I guess this is comic book spoilery but In the books Oliver is straight up known as The Hunter of Men and is even hired at times to hunt people down , him killing is part of his character and has been for a while now
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Dec 21, 2013 00:13
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Amell has been announced for the Vancouver Fan Expo - sorta the Vancouver Comic Con. Very cool & can't wait to see him there.
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Dec 21, 2013 00:20
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Great Beer posted:Didn't Merlyn flat out tell Moira he did influenced the jury to find her innocent during his reveal scene? Yes, but I was/am hoping for the Laurel reveal as well.
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Dec 21, 2013 00:41
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Hollismason posted:It's more realistic for him to not like killing, to avoid killing, but if he has to kill. Is that spoiler the comic book based off the show or something? Because I can't ever recall that in a normal green arrow comic...not that I followed him much beyond whenever he was in the JLA. Also, I don't really like discussing the TVshow based comic (if there even is one) because it feels dumb to have a tv show setting story and a comic do the same concurrently. One after the other is fine, like in Angel or Buffy or something, but not together.
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Dec 21, 2013 00:43
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Aphrodite posted:She said that in the episode. Yes, but it's the sort of thing that any halfway awake defense attorney would be throwing out some sort of objection over instead of simply shrugging and being like "yeah okay." Like the bit earlier in the episode where the DA asks Thea why she didn't visit Moira for five months, then immediately interrupts her and starts putting words in her mouth, even really lovely law shows would have had the defense objecting at that point. As far as Ollie killing the Count goes, I didn't get the impression that it was the result of frustration and a deliberate decision to say "gently caress it" because none of Ollie's reactions afterwards really supported that, he seemed less satisfied and more unhappy with how things played out. I might buy that he simply gave into "island instinct" though it feels a bit like reaching. Still, it doesn't explain why when Count V is standing out in the open in the drug lab going "hey, go on and take your best shot guy with a bow and incredible accuracy" that he doesn't wind up with an arrow in various extremities instead of Ollie getting all frustrated and shooting a propane tank instead.
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Dec 21, 2013 00:58
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Kai Tave posted:Yes, but it's the sort of thing that any halfway awake defense attorney would be throwing out some sort of objection over instead of simply shrugging and being like "yeah okay." Like the bit earlier in the episode where the DA asks Thea why she didn't visit Moira for five months, then immediately interrupts her and starts putting words in her mouth, even really lovely law shows would have had the defense objecting at that point. Oh I wasn't defending it. I was just saying it was stupid in a different way than a suspension of disbelief thing.
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Dec 21, 2013 02:17
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Rhyno posted:
Buffy wasn't really poppy though. It was what Whedon liked and he didn't have awful taste at the time. I still love watching the season 1-3 and looking for the ALL sticker.
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Dec 21, 2013 09:49
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Hey Ollie, maybe don't fistfight the guy you know has super-strength. Like, for real, try maybe anything else. Also shooting Roy in the leg is a dick move man, you have knockout darts and poo poo. I admit, after largely finding Moira kind of annoying in the first season the scene where she tells Malcom to  by siccing Ra's al'Ghul on him was pretty nice. That's it Moira, own your villainy. Make it work for you.
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Dec 21, 2013 10:08
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Kai Tave posted:Hey Ollie, maybe don't fistfight the guy you know has super-strength. Like, for real, try maybe anything else. Also shooting Roy in the leg is a dick move man, you have knockout darts and poo poo. To be fair, an arrow to the knee will slow someone down a lot longer than his knockout darts will. I suppose he could ziptie Roy to a pipe, but then he has to come back and get him... I don't know. Second point, I'm really looking forward to the very late in series reveal to Moira, after she's become a puppetmaster to pretty much everyone, that her son is Green loving Arrow. That'll be a breakdown to enjoy. And finally, anyone else remember loving Ba'al on Stargate? Wouldn't mind seeing Cliff Simon get a little scenery chewing villain work here. He does that really well.  "There is a god standing here with wet hands."
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Dec 21, 2013 18:50
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Warmachine posted:To be fair, an arrow to the knee will slow someone down a lot longer than his knockout darts will. I suppose he could ziptie Roy to a pipe, but then he has to come back and get him... I don't know. It works better as a lesson too. "I've just put a big loving arrow through your leg and I'm the good guy. Imagine what the bad guys will do to you. Stop getting involved in this poo poo." That of course assumes Roy isn't a complete fuckwit with a deathwish, which unfortunately it appears he is.
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Dec 21, 2013 19:09
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