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Darth Windu posted:This game is amazing compared to both of them - much deeper than Magic Uh, no. While MMDoC is certainly on the deeper end of the spectrum as far as CCGs go (and don't get me wrong, I really like this game despite only being able to grind for currency right now), all this statement shows is that you don't understand Magic very well. Not being able to meaningfully interact with your opponent during their turn is a huge strike against MMDoC in this regard. Promoted Pawn fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 25, 2013 08:24
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So I got a little bored and whipped up a quick table for people who want to look up a Hero with a specific spell combination: The brackets are which faction they belong to. I've tried my best to align them where each Faction's 'speciality' is, so Haven Heroes would mostly be under the Light column. The Heroes with three spell schools aren't there, but the only such Hero with a unique combination would be Asaiah (Water+Fire).
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Dec 25, 2013 08:39
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Promoted Pawn posted:Not being able to meaningfully interact with your opponent during their turn is a huge strike against MMDoC in this regard. I agree that Magic, at least in its current state, is more deeper. But I think it's fair to say that MMDoC is equivalent to Magic when Magic had 630 (or whatever) cards in its entirety (this is about 15 years ago). Although depth is definitely lost by not being able to play cards on your opponent's turn, the up-side is that it usually makes games go faster and that creature enchantments are slightly more powerful.
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Dec 25, 2013 08:43
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Nice. Thanks, dude. I'll add this to the OP.
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Dec 25, 2013 08:44
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Being able to act on your opponents turn is not depth.
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Dec 25, 2013 08:51
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Honestly, it's not really fair to compare MMDoC to paper Magic in its current state. However, I think we can all agree that MMDoC is a drat good online CCG, arguably the best one out there right now.
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Dec 25, 2013 08:58
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Woot just won my first swiss today actually, that was fun. I'd like to thank Dahbadu who helped me test out the deck to make sure it was sound.
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Dec 25, 2013 09:21
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Dahbadu posted:I agree that Magic, at least in its current state, is more deeper. But I think it's fair to say that MMDoC is equivalent to Magic when Magic had 630 (or whatever) cards in its entirety (this is about 15 years ago). Closer to 19 years (Magic had 4 different expansions in 1994, one of which was over 300 cards), but I'm just being pedantic and the general point stands. MMDoC is a relatively immature CCG that shows a lot of promise and does an awful lot for what it's got, but it's not even close to competing with Magic yet. Dahbadu posted:Although depth is definitely lost by not being able to play cards on your opponent's turn, the up-side is that it usually makes games go faster and that creature enchantments are slightly more powerful. It does do those things, but I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. I would like to see the game introduce an equivalent to the 'instant' card type and implement a Duels of the Planeswalkers-style timed response window to play them before actions taken by the active player automatically resolve. That's the sweet spot of interactivity, speed, and convenience as far as I'm concerned. Darth Windu posted:Being able to act on your opponents turn is not depth. Bluffing is a much diminished aspect of any CCG which does not allow instant responses to actions taken by the active player. Not being able to make plays outside of your turn in a creature-combat focused game means that a lot of mechanics which introduce depth to said combat can never exist.
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Dec 25, 2013 09:25
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Fatherwolf posted:Woot just won my first swiss today actually, that was fun. Grats on the Swiss, dude! I really liked your Gazal deck.
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Dec 25, 2013 10:44
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Dahbadu posted:Grats on the Swiss, dude! I really liked your Gazal deck. It pretty great, i even had my first somewhat lukewarm rage today. I was fighting a pretty poor spelltor but still in the 1200-1300 elo range and he rage quit after i took away all his toy. He forbidden flame only for me to take them away again. (what i mean by that is a combination of puppet master and enthrall) After that he decide to quit telling me that my only offense and then typing Yawn. God people are sometime stupid.
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Dec 25, 2013 11:01
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Mind posting your Gazal list? I've been running a Gazal deck myself, but I've kind of lost steam in the 1100+ ELO range. Curious to see what kind of list does well in Swiss.
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Dec 25, 2013 11:10
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not really, but keep in mind the deck is kind of fragile until you hit 6 resource. It take a decent amount of skill to play too, for example in one of my test game with dahbadu i lost because i did not remember one of my strand was in the graveyard at 4 resource, which could have saved me. http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks/show/2478 (Gazal is a great hero sitting at 1/1/1 and her ability is godly as she can get ANY non-unique spell in ANY graveyard and play them at the cost of paying 1,discarding a card and paying the associated resource cost. While Akane can also do it by jumping spell in and out her hand and not get permanent discard the reason I prefer Gazal is economy of motion an resource.as you can get back a 6 cost spell as soon as 7 resource on the board, also i prefer her magic path.) event honestly you could run 4x blind arbiter or 4x week of austerity too, i prefer the arbiter, the week of the dead are for when you want to take control of something pricy with enthrall then kill it quick because it might get dispelled. creature standard play for time here, with some big butt to clog up the lane while i bide my time. Especially important is the spell level acceleration with the scholar, tutor, djinn and Nur. Spell dark magic.txt, the reason it work so well with Gazal is that after 6 resource as long as you have spell in your or you enemy graveyard there is no dead turn. Curse of the netherworld is the best tool you have to restore board control and you have so much control it get kind of ridiculous. if you think about it baring removal you have a total of 12 way to control the opponent creature, 6 to outright kill them and 8 board wiping spell. Shadow image may be used to copy those annoying unique of the opponent and get a copy then taking control of their unique with enthrall/puppet master ever seen the chaos of 2 Nyorai Sairensa? but an argument can be made for 2 more spell twister or any other spell card you want to play. Time jump and void ripple are there for 2 thing. taking 2 turn win game. and void ripple can dispel persistent affect most spell card cannot touch or just act as a removal spell.) Edit: There is an argument for wither instead of strand in the deck but i prefer stand as a method to nerf other creature for 3 reason: 1.strand cannot be dispelled as easily while counter can be rid of most deck do not run a convenient way of dealing with them but there are many way of getting rid of a spell. 2. -2 damage and retribution is enough to render toothless/manageable most early game creature and leave them to clog up the board. 3. it can hit multiple creature. economy of action is great in any ccg and if i can hit more than one creature it much better than one most of the time. fortune for 3 get the spell you need and lower the cost by 1 for a turn, can be useful also if you have the card in hand act like a great disposable card to get to play the spell again. Fatherwolf fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 25, 2013 11:51
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jetz0r posted:
Okay, I snipped around in my deck and came out with a 4/2/4 deck with the following cards; http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks/show/2477 Here's what I know I will do: Get 4 wolf captains ASAP Get 2 extra tithe collectors and revised tactics to remove them from the game after turn 1 Try to get a total of 4 week of training and 4 mana storm cards as events (I have no mana storms and only 2 weeks of training as it stands) I could get rid of the void wraith if that's a bad card. I have extra sun riders and wolf marksmen for some decent (I think?) 3-drops. I could put in two imperial sentinels to have some extra one-drops, but I feel they are relatively useless considering most creatures can deal 2 damage and sentinels mostly slow them down instead of halting them outright. Are there any other cards that are bad and I should replace with something else? Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 25, 2013 11:55
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In the future, use http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks to post your decks - makes it a lot easier for those of us who don't have every card memorized yet.
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Dec 25, 2013 12:02
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ApplesandOranges posted:Water/Prime would likely be pretty good though. Mother Namtaru is Water and Prime (and darkness). What combo were you looking at?
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Dec 25, 2013 12:06
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THE PWNER posted:In the future, use http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks to post your decks - makes it a lot easier for those of us who don't have every card memorized yet. Sorry, and thanks. I fixed my post.
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Dec 25, 2013 12:09
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THE PWNER posted:In the future, use http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks to post your decks - makes it a lot easier for those of us who don't have every card memorized yet. I did the same thing.
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Dec 25, 2013 12:22
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Deltasquid posted:Okay, I snipped around in my deck and came out with a 4/2/4 deck with the following cards; I posted a budget version of Cass a while ago: http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks/show/1942 Cards like Void Wraith are very bad unless you're doing a combo deck that forces creatures to attack it. 3 resources for 3 damage is not very good at all and more importantly it doesn't develop the board at all. The only Haven card worth upping to 4 Might are the Crusader Treasurers and eventually Anael. The power difference between the other 4 drops and your 3 drops aren't worth the lost draw or stat upping for other stuff. I would advise still keeping the unique Fortunes since you already have them. Wolf Captains are expensive, but they are what gives the deck the power to rush down opponents.
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Dec 25, 2013 12:35
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I'm looking at the packages available on Steam, and I'm wondering about the Starter Pack. Does that just include the regular starter decks, and if so does that basically just mean I get duplicates of all the cards from the starter I chose at the beginning? Also is there any way to buy seals via my steam wallet? Promoted Pawn posted:Uh, no. While MMDoC is certainly on the deeper end of the spectrum as far as CCGs go (and don't get me wrong, I really like this game despite only being able to grind for currency right now), all this statement shows is that you don't understand Magic very well. Not being able to meaningfully interact with your opponent during their turn is a huge strike against MMDoC in this regard. I'm not sure how recently you've played Magic, but I feel like it's lost a lot of its depth (at least for the standard format) in the past few years. Anything that isn't "fun", which basically includes the entire core of blue and several aspects of red and black's identities, have been stripped from the game leaving it with a lot less of its interaction and depth. It's still a lot better than games like YuGiOh in how much depth you have, but I do legitimately believe that MMDOC has surpassed it in depth and strategy at this point.
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Dec 25, 2013 17:44
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The best part about magic is the wealth of alternate win conditions it has. There's a bunch of cards with 'win the game if x' printed on them, and those are silly fun to try and build around. I also like that magic has a large number of 'protection from', 'shroud', 'hexproof', etc. So you really have a lot of options for busting through your opponent's strategy, whereas in MMDoC you're really stuck with 'pick either fortunes or spells, play small creatues', because of how the resource system behaves, and how powerful the aoe/board wiping stuff is.
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Dec 25, 2013 17:54
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm looking at the packages available on Steam, and I'm wondering about the Starter Pack. Does that just include the regular starter decks, and if so does that basically just mean I get duplicates of all the cards from the starter I chose at the beginning? That's the only way to buy seals, you have to add money to your wallet and then process it through the game.
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Dec 25, 2013 17:56
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Oh that's cool, I thought you'd have to purchase them through another method via their site or whatever. Guess I'll just grab the deck then.
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Dec 25, 2013 18:14
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Fatherwolf posted:Fatherwolf's deck: http://tools.mmdocking.com/decks/show/2478 One of the things I liked about Fatherwolf's deck is that he runs more Curse of the Netherworld than is standard. This is key against rush or aggro-heavy decks.
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Dec 25, 2013 20:14
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm not sure how recently you've played Magic, but I feel like it's lost a lot of its depth (at least for the standard format) in the past few years. Anything that isn't "fun", which basically includes the entire core of blue and several aspects of red and black's identities, have been stripped from the game leaving it with a lot less of its interaction and depth. I'd hate to derail this into Magic thread #84, but I really have no idea what you're talking about here. Care to elaborate?
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Dec 25, 2013 20:28
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Dahbadu posted:One of the things I liked about Fatherwolf's deck is that he runs more Curse of the Netherworld than is standard. This is key against rush or aggro-heavy decks. It definitely one of the key part of the deck, being able to wipe the board of most 3 health creature is priceless it can also get rid of other 4 health creature, like succubus or holy praetorian with the help of a scholar or tutor. In the experience i had with the deck is that it very reliable even without magic acceleration. Sometime i have no need of anything after i get might 2 but usually that around turn 7 or 8 unless i play harpy.
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Dec 25, 2013 20:42
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Promoted Pawn posted:I'd hate to derail this into Magic thread #84, but I really have no idea what you're talking about here. Care to elaborate? Discard effects have been drastically toned down, land destruction is almost completely gone from the game, and really hard permission style locks are also basically gone. Any mechanic that people whined about being unfun or not interactive has been removed or made basically unplayable.
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Dec 25, 2013 20:57
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JoshTheStampede posted:Discard effects have been drastically toned down, land destruction is almost completely gone from the game, and really hard permission style locks are also basically gone. Any mechanic that people whined about being unfun or not interactive has been removed or made basically unplayable. Please note that I haven't played Magic for like 15+ years (sans the online Planeswalker games), but day-um, that sounds like some depth is removed. Whatever the case, I like MMDoC and based on the feedback in this thread, everyone that's tried it seems to like it. That's what should matter, I think.
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Dec 25, 2013 21:10
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I got an android pad and this game isnt on it?? WTF
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Dec 25, 2013 21:15
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WYA posted:I got an android pad and this game isnt on it?? WTF Marketshare, brah.
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Dec 25, 2013 21:51
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JoshTheStampede posted:Discard effects have been drastically toned down, land destruction is almost completely gone from the game, and really hard permission style locks are also basically gone. Any mechanic that people whined about being unfun or not interactive has been removed or made basically unplayable. While you're right about land destruction, current Standard features both Thoughtseize and Duress, both in the top 5 among the best discard spells ever printed, and in fact a group of pros are complaining that the discard suite in Standard is too good because of it. A Blue/White permission/control deck is among the better decks in Standard right now, and Esper Control (which is very reminiscent of classic control decks) was probably the best overall deck in last year's Block Constructed format. Back to MMDoC, does anybody have any suggestions for an easy to build deck that's good at 1001+, aside from Ishuma? I want to try to keep my options open when I'm moving off of Arianna. I already have a playset of Paos and 2 DAs.
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Dec 25, 2013 22:58
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Crag Hack, Adar control are the only "cheap options" that don't require a lot of 4-of rares. Your options open up a lot for Stronghold if you get Avkal's deck with the 4 Vulture Riders, then you can go into Kelthor pretty easily.
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Dec 25, 2013 23:02
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Tae posted:Crag Hack, Adar control are the only "cheap options" that don't require a lot of 4-of rares. Your options open up a lot for Stronghold if you get Avkal's deck with the 4 Vulture Riders, then you can go into Kelthor pretty easily. Yeah, if you're willing to drop $30 on the game (for 1800 seals) you can get Avkall's deck, which will give you nearly every creature you need to build Crag Hack and Kelthor. Even Adar-Malik Control is still kinda expensive because all of the best dark spells are rare.
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Dec 25, 2013 23:56
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CompeAnansi posted:Yeah, if you're willing to drop $30 on the game (for 1800 seals) you can get Avkall's deck, which will give you nearly every creature you need to build Crag Hack and Kelthor. Even Adar-Malik Control is still kinda expensive because all of the best dark spells are rare. Not really, a lot of Adar's don't run Shadow Images and Puppetmaster is only for specific archtypes. Plus they only cost 5 wildcards each if you really want them. The only card you really do need is Forbidden Flame which costs 16 but it's so worth it because it's one of the best spells in the entire game.
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Dec 26, 2013 00:04
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Promoted Pawn posted:While you're right about land destruction, current Standard features both Thoughtseize and Duress, both in the top 5 among the best discard spells ever printed, and in fact a group of pros are complaining that the discard suite in Standard is too good because of it. I haven't kept up closely with Magic, but I think he meant that discard as a full-on archetype is long gone. Even mill hasn't been competitive in many years AFAIK. I'm not a casual player at all, and I think phasing out the deck types you listed- land destruction, discard, and hard permission locks was one of the smartest moves that Wizards made. Noninteractive games, almost by definition, lack depth. If I can't play most or any of my cards because my opponent is all in on blowing up my lands/discarding my hand/counterspelling everything, my number of options turn-by-turn nosedive (often to 0 or 1) and the game becomes a pretty mindless (and yes, unfun) affair. Now you could argue that the deckbuilding side of depth is restricted by not having those present to build with or against, but I think it's possible and better to try for a rich field of options that still are interactive and make for much more depth in-game. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 00:38
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Discard was the worst for that. Oh I drew a card. If I keep this card it will be discarded so I have to play it regardless of what it is and what it does. Also land destruction has been possible in standard recently, you just had to work a lot harder for it and play the deck into the right meta. Which is a far better spot than just jamming land destruction because it's universally strong and perfectly capable of beating every deck given the right draws. Speaking of, MMDOC seems to be in a similar state where you can't make strategies that just control everyone. I've tried with Kal-Azaar but it's really hard to fully shut out every deck and you actually have some tension where the right play and drawing the right cards often matters right up to the end even if you've largely got the game in lock-down.
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Dec 26, 2013 01:07
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Avasculous posted:I'm not a casual player at all, and I think phasing out the deck types you listed- land destruction, discard, and hard permission locks was one of the smartest moves that Wizards made. Noninteractive games, almost by definition, lack depth. If I can't play most or any of my cards because my opponent is all in on blowing up my lands/discarding my hand/counterspelling everything, my number of options turn-by-turn nosedive (often to 0 or 1) and the game becomes a pretty mindless (and yes, unfun) affair. This is a Good Post. And it's not even like the cards that represent those strategies have disappeared completely, they've just been slowed down by a turn or two (for the most part, obvious exceptions being the previously mentioned Thoughtseize/Duress).
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Dec 26, 2013 01:18
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DoC is the flash sale the next 8 hours. I don't know what the prices were before: Might & Magic: Duel of Champions - Starter Pack -30% $14.99 $10.49 Might & Magic: Duel of Champions - Sanctuary Connoisseur Pack -30% $24.99 $17.49 Might & Magic: Duel of Champions - Academy Connoisseur Pack -30% $24.99 $17.49 Might & Magic: Duel of Champions - Founders Pack -30% $29.99 $20.99 Might & Magic: Duel of Champions - Champions Pack 2 -20% $69.99 $55.99 edit: what the hell is faceroll? How do you faceroll? unbuttonedclone fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 03:07
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For your viewing pleasure:    I'm gonna report the dude, because gently caress sore losers. However, I'm slightly torn because a) it may be too obvious that I'm baiting him, and b) he at least apologized for his casual bigotry.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:11
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WYA posted:I got an android pad and this game isnt on it?? WTF They mentioned other systems as a goal for 2014, I wouldn't 100% say its market share its more there is a WIDE range of android devices, and unlike apple its a bit harder to restrict it to a tablet only, they probably want to make the iPhone port first which requires a UI that works well at 4 inches. With Android you also have to worry about the 4x3 aspect ratio fan boys and have to make sure it will behave on that size screen too. I've done some Android development its honestly a complete pain in the rear end to restrict it to certain devices, and when you do people complain why don't you support my device you support all these other ones! You are far better off just making support for the 4 aspect ratios that Android supports, which means you need 4 times the art assets, you can probably just do lazy black bars for some of the lesser used ones but still. Either way it should be coming, and I'd love to have this on my phone, my Nexus 7 would be nice too, but I think I'd get way more use on my phone, I could get some games in during my lunch break.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:21
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thylacine posted:DoC is the flash sale the next 8 hours. I don't know what the prices were before: -20% on everything before. Don't use this as the opportunity to buy anything - there is only one good option here, and it is the same option that has existed at 20% off and will continue to exist for at least 20% until January 3rd. I'm still not convinced we won't see a lower price on the Champions Pack. It might be part of a broader Might & Magic sale. If we do see it, great. But if we don't, well, we have until January 3rd to decide whether or not to take it at 56 dollars.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:31
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