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Billy Idle posted:See above. It was only explicitly outlined in the EU, but it was based on instructions from Lucas. Ok thanks. I'm more interested in only what's in the films themselves, but that's just a personal preference. quote:To a certain point I agree that Anakin being creepy and awkward was intentional. But it's possible for those qualities to shine through in certain ways without making the character as a whole too off-putting, which they could have done a much better job of IMO. Well the film does a good job at making him creepy, awkward, and off-putting. Outside of my own child mindset I don't see why he should be cool or likable. Especially since instead being a story about a good man turning bad, I now see the prequels as about a bad man's flaws coming out in a bad situation. Maybe he was kind and considerate as a little kid, but after the Jedi got a hold of him (and with Palpatine's influence) he seems to have quickly become a selfish, arrogant, creepy, awkward, and immature young man. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 05:25
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I'd have liked to see more about why Obi-Wan considered Anakin a good friend. A demonstration of the goodness that Luke was so sure was still in him might have been a point worth dwelling on, as well.
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Dec 26, 2013 08:24
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Bongo Bill posted:I'd have liked to see more about why Obi-Wan considered Anakin a good friend. A demonstration of the goodness that Luke was so sure was still in him might have been a point worth dwelling on, as well. I think the main failure with the prequels was the fact that Episode 2 just meanders. Sure, the love story was needed (I agree that it wasn't completely awful, but it was pretty badly done), but yeah, there needed to be at least a few scenes between Obi-Wan and Anakin where there is genuine love and friendship, even if it is at an arm's length because of the constraints of the the Jedi Order. They should have jumped straight into the Clone Wars. Have the Republic be overwhelmed by the quintillion droids or whatever the CIS has. Cue some action scenes with Obi-wan and Anakin as they hunt down Dooku. Maybe Anakin gets a slight injury and has to go back and then he falls in love with Padme/Palpatine starts to exert his influence. Kenobi investigates the Clones and the Senate approves it because of the desperate straits they're in. Jedi go along with it because they have no other choice. Everything else would remain mostly the same, with Dooku having a more prominent and nuanced role. As it stands Episode II trades heart for a half-baked mystery and teen angst when it needed to be the emotional center of the trilogy.
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Dec 26, 2013 08:53
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KaptainKrunk posted:there needed to be at least a few scenes between Obi-Wan and Anakin where there is genuine love and friendship, even if it is at an arm's length because of the constraints of the the Jedi Order. The beginning of episode III has at least some of that. I think the implication is that they weren't truly friends until they served in the Clone Wars together.
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Dec 26, 2013 09:03
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Obiwan doesn't seem like the kind of dude who had many friends. He's kind of a massive dorkus, and a canonical virgin.
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Dec 26, 2013 09:16
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Bongo Bill posted:I'd have liked to see more about why Obi-Wan considered Anakin a good friend. A demonstration of the goodness that Luke was so sure was still in him might have been a point worth dwelling on, as well. Obi-Wan says he was friends with Luke's father because that makes Luke trust him. The movies make it clear Obi-Wan does like Anakin, but their relationship is far more complex than 'good friends'. An easy-going friendship contradicts the narrative in which both men's stubbornness drives them to ruin.
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Dec 26, 2013 09:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Obiwan doesn't seem like the kind of dude who had many friends. He's kind of a massive dorkus, and a canonical virgin. sassassin posted:Obi-Wan says he was friends with Luke's father because that makes Luke trust him. In context of the PT's portrayal of Ben as a massive weirdo, Anakin was his good friend. They're like two nerdy junior high jackoffs, buddies because no one else likes Dungeons and Dragons and animes. Anakin is his Ben's best friend because he's his only friend, and the only guy who will go around being a space dickhead with him.
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Dec 26, 2013 10:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Obiwan doesn't seem like the kind of dude who had many friends. He's kind of a massive dorkus, and a canonical virgin. Yeah, exactly. It should always be remembered when considering these characters is that first, their fairy tale characters, and second, they are space monks for the most part. Celibate, severe, fully dedicated to the mysteries of the Force. They don't think and act like normal people, and thus don't have normal relationships. So with that I can easily understand why Obi-Wan would consider Anakin a good fried. Though to be fair, it's implied Obi-Wan has real friendships too - Dex from AOTC for example.
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Dec 26, 2013 15:57
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Obi-Wan dwelling on Anakin as a 'good friend' could be that good-old nostalgia everyone talks about. If Anakin had died in the Clone Wars I'm sure he would find a way to look back fondly on the arguments he had with him in AoTC as good times too. Time does that to people.Billy Idle posted:To a certain point I agree that Anakin being creepy and awkward was intentional. But it's possible for those qualities to shine through in certain ways without making the character as a whole too off-putting, which they could have done a much better job of IMO. I kind of disagree, about the off-putting thing. Not that it wasn't, oh hell are those scenes awkward and goony, but (this is something more acceptable in novels nowadays than movies but still) you don't have to empathise or sympathise with a main character. Hell, I think this sort of thing happens a lot in TV Shows too - very few people like Walter White in Breaking Bad or Vic Mackey in The Shield as human beings for example. Not that I'm comparing the prequel's quality of writing or dialogue to two of the best tv shows ever, but the standard is the same. The only poorly-written character in my opinion in Star Wars is The Emperor, his over-the-top evilness sometimes strikes me as so I Am The Bad Guy that I fail to recognise him as something believable, but in the OT they balance this by making him partly a doddering old man who is losing touch, and also mix it with that a genuine obsession with the Idea of evil, and in the prequels they give him some nice character scenes with Anakin, etc. I honestly find a lot of the Emperor's scenes in the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace and his alone time with Ani in Revenge, to be some of the most interesting things to watch. Is it all an elaborate farce to control people's emotions - and even so, is there not still a grain of truth in the powerlessness of the senate, the closed-mindedness of the Jedi? I would have preferred a version of the Emperor who was more of a character in this regard. My favourite antagonists are usually partially correct in what they're saying, and honestly believe their way is better. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 17:11
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Obi-Wan and Anakin were brothers-in-arms. They bicker, they quip at each other, but I still can imagine the former considering the latter a friend. Doesn't mean the latter wasn't very screwed up.
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Dec 26, 2013 17:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Obiwan doesn't seem like the kind of dude who had many friends. He's kind of a massive dorkus, and a canonical virgin. It's heavily implied in Clone Wars that he had a relationship with Duchess Satine that very well could have been sexual.
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Dec 26, 2013 18:46
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Lord Krangdar posted:The beginning of episode III has at least some of that. I think the implication is that they weren't truly friends until they served in the Clone Wars together. One thing I did enjoy from AOTC regarding this was the Anakin venting about Obi Wan scene. While Anakin was whining to Padme about Obi Wan, he wasn't wrong about anything he saying. He WAS overly critical, and doesn't listen to Anakin. We see that with the whole this weapon is your life speech outside of the club when they are hunting for the bounty hunter.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:24
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Vintimus Prime posted:One thing I did enjoy from AOTC regarding this was the Anakin venting about Obi Wan scene. While Anakin was whining to Padme about Obi Wan, he wasn't wrong about anything he saying. He WAS overly critical, and doesn't listen to Anakin. We see that with the whole this weapon is your life speech outside of the club when they are hunting for the bounty hunter. There's a running joke throughout the prequels where everybody keeps losing their lightsaber, Obi-Wan more than most. Which highlights how unfair he really was being with Anakin. edit: And Lucas actually admits that there weren't enough scenes in Episode II showing that the two were friends. He specifically added the establishing scene of them joking in the elevator to alleviate the issue. Billy Idle fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 16:32
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The most hilarious joke beside the 'rethink your life' segment is when Anakin loses his lightsaber and it flies out into a city of a trillion flying cars, and lands directly into Obi-Wan's hand.
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Dec 27, 2013 16:37
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Well he was flying right behind them, but yeah, that was a pretty lucky catch. edit: And I know LOL cartoons and all that, but if people want to see some good Anakin/Obi-Wan friendship interaction they should really watch The Clone Wars series. Matt Lanter (Anakin) and James Arnold Taylor (Obi-Wan) have great chemistry in that show. They act like an old married couple. Billy Idle fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 16:40
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I like when Anakin senses something wrong in Amidala's room and Obi Wan is all "uhh yeah I totally sense it too"
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Dec 27, 2013 16:44
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Billy Idle posted:Well he was flying right behind them, but yeah, that was a pretty lucky catch. Hello? The Force? It can be used to explain most unbelievable things in Star Wars. Also, for any fans who for some reason haven't seen it, the Clone Wars cartoon is amazing. Specifically the invasion of Courascant. It also conveys the friendship of Obi-Wan and Anakin in a believable manner.
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Dec 27, 2013 16:44
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echronorian posted:I like when Anakin senses something wrong in Amidala's room and Obi Wan is all "uhh yeah I totally sense it too" hahahhahahha that's a great scene too. I don't understand why people thought the characters in these movies are poorly-written, they're almost entirely comedies about the Jedi. Not saying that to be facetious at all, they're fantastic. redshirt posted:Hello? The Force? It can be used to explain most unbelievable things in Star Wars. That doesn't stop it from being really silly and hilarious. EDIT: The really circuitous failed assassination of Amidala is completely intentional. Palpatine hires an assassin to hire an assassin-scapegoat to kill her using a weapon the Jedi can sense and destroy before they could do any damage, instead of just hiring Fett to shoot her with a gun. Also blowing up a ship with a decoy on it (he would've known it's a decoy, he's from Naboo himself and used to be a senator, hell he might have had a decoy himself back in the day) Why? Well, I assume to send the Jedi on a wild goose chase looking for her assassin. It's such a good distraction that when Kenobi discovers the clone army he's more busy trying to catch Jango Fett than figure out where they came from or any of the deeper conspiracy stuff. Amidala's assassin is a carrot in front of everyone's nose. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 17:00
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jivjov posted:It's heavily implied in Clone Wars that he had a relationship with Duchess Satine that very well could have been sexual. Are there any further Moulin Rouge! jokes?
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Dec 27, 2013 18:29
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Hbomberguy posted:hahahhahahha that's a great scene too. I don't understand why people thought the characters in these movies are poorly-written, they're almost entirely comedies about the Jedi. Not saying that to be facetious at all, they're fantastic. There is a nice buddy-cop movie vibe to their interactions. I mean, the acting and dialogue isn't great (again, I think setting the prequels in this "elegant, civilized time" made it harder for Lucas because everyone has to talk high-falutin'), but I appreciate the underlying dynamics. As much as people talk about Lucas being shielded from criticism and surrounded by yes-men, there's a very clear response to some of the critiques of TPM in AOTC. It has a slightly darker tone (is less of a kid's movie), there's more action and some "adult" bits (including Padme getting clawed at by a beast to justify having her midriff exposed), Jar-Jar's barely in it and is basically responsible for the Emperor rising to power, the overly-Asian Trade Federation guys are also diminished (and mostly replaced by the bug people and their lack of obvious ethnic signifiers), and the slower lovey-dovey stuff is intercut with Obi-Wan playing space detective. I honestly find Clones both the most flawed and fascinating of the movies. It has a lot of obvious problems but there's just something more than the sum of its parts to it. Like, there's this scene after Anakin starts going berserk on the Sand People, where it cuts to Yoda and Mace talking ominously about something horrible happening, and there's this genuine sense of dread in it. It's simply lit and shot, the digital stuff is obvious, but it's really effective somehow. It may be that it is the one movie in the entire series, apart maybe from ANH, that wears the old-timey sci-fi influences most on its sleeve. Obi Wan goes to a space diner to talk to a grizzled alien about the mysterious weapon he found, there are robots that are just balls on legs with death rays, you've got the Kamino aliens looking like what we think aliens should look like, "I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe", a big Harryhausen fight, etc.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:04
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Hbomberguy posted:The most hilarious joke beside the 'rethink your life' segment is when Anakin loses his lightsaber and it flies out into a city of a trillion flying cars, and lands directly into Obi-Wan's hand. That's the joke, but the punchline is when Obiwan, in one smooth gesture, just hucks it under the passenger seat. If that weapon is Anakin's life, this image has implications.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's the joke, but the punchline is when Obiwan, in one smooth gesture, just hucks it under the passenger seat. If that weapon is Anakin's life, this image has implications. I can't wait to read your seven-paragraph analysis of why Obiwan stows away Anakin's ligithsaber under the passenger seat.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:21
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enraged_camel posted:I can't wait to read your seven-paragraph analysis of why Obiwan stows away Anakin's ligithsaber under the passenger seat. He thoughtlessly tosses it under the passenger seat. He doesn't place it in an accessible location on the drivers' side.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:28
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KaptainKrunk posted:I think the main failure with the prequels was the fact that Episode 2 just meanders. The one essential edit to AotC is to cut the frolicking scene. You know the one. It's the biggest waste of screen time, and is rather poorly done to boot. Skip just that one scene and the whole movie is paced better.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:He thoughtlessly tosses it under the passenger seat. Actually, he drops it on the seat itself, not under it, but that comes with its own problems since it can easily just fall out again as its not even remotely secured.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's the joke, but the punchline is when Obiwan, in one smooth gesture, just hucks it under the passenger seat. If that weapon is Anakin's life, this image has implications. I was going to mention that, the way he just sort of idly plops it back down where Anakin should go. I always found that funny too, but in a way harder to say in words. It's just so...fantasmic. <I tried to explain what I meant here, but I cannot state it in words, I tried for ages too.> mllaneza posted:The one essential edit to AotC is to cut the frolicking scene. You know the one. It's the biggest waste of screen time, and is rather poorly done to boot. Skip just that one scene and the whole movie is paced better. That scene is perfect. It's so lovey-dovey, and from characters who do not at all function like that. It's so forced, by Anakin and Padme themselves. They're emulating some soap operas about love they saw on space-tv. Padme later can't actually rationalise it into a real relationship because then the love they pretend to feel in the movie-like conditions they chose to express it 'would be real'. That's exactly what love is like for a lot of people nowadays. There's that friction between fantasy and reality. The rolling in the grass scene is painful to watch because you know this to be the case, and yet people do that, because they think that's how you do love.
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Dec 27, 2013 20:05
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I think it makes sense psychologically, but it's still not a lot of fun to watch. It didn't ruin the film for me because there's a lot of stuff I like in it, but I can see why it was a deal breaker for some.
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Dec 27, 2013 20:08
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I just rewatched ROTS last night with my son. (I think it is my favorite SW movie now, even like it more than ESB.) This part I posted earlier quote:MACE WINDU: I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor. The bolded part did not appear to happen in the movie I watched. I might have been distracted. However I think the most important line quote:MACE WiNDU: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive. did happen. It had a lot of resonance when coupled with Anakin's quest for life and survival. Also I love how Palpatine says he can help people cheat death, but what is left unsaid is that they will be horrible monsters after he is done with them. (Grievous is important symbol here.) euphronius fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 20:14
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euphronius posted:The bolded part did not appear to happen in the movie I watched. I might have been distracted. I'm pretty sure that Mace Windu line is in there, but not so sure about that next one. What makes the Senators greedy and corrupt to the Jedi, anyway? They just seem really (really) naive. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 28, 2013 |
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Dec 28, 2013 02:31
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The trick with Grievous is that his status as a brain in a jar is not that far removed from Yoda's "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." It's the inverse; luminous beings are cut off from matter. That's how prostheses work: you extend one ability at the cost of another. A (laser) sword enhances your ability to claw and hit, but at the cost of your hand itself. This is taken to a literal extreme with Luke's dismemberment. It's another example of how the light side is absent in most of the films - there are just different types of darkness. Empire Strikes back itself rejects Yoda's stance by saying love breaks from his logic. See the scene of Han kissing Leia, and how C3PO doesn't understand. See also how Obiwan and Yoda can't prepare Luke for meeting his biological father. "What if sexual difference is not simply a biological fact, but the Real of an antagonism that defines humanity, so that once sexual difference is abolished, a human being effectively becomes indistinguishable from a machine. Perhaps the best way to specify this role of sexual love is through the notion of reflexivity as "the movement whereby that which has been used to generate a system is made, through a changed perspective, to become part of the system it generates." This appearance of the generating movement within the generated system as a rule takes the form of its opposite; say, in the later stage of a revolutionary process when Revolution starts to devour its own children, the political agent which effectively set in motion the process is renegated into the role of its main obstacle, of the waverers or outright traitors who are not ready to follow the revolutionary logic to its conclusion. Along the same lines, is it not that, once the socio-symbolic order is fully established, the very dimension which introduced the "transcendent" attitude that defines a human being, namely SEXUALITY, the uniquely human sexual passion, appears as its very opposite, as the main OBSTACLE to the elevation of a human being to the pure spirituality, as that which ties him/her down to the inertia of bodily existence? For this reason, the end of sexuality in the much celebrated "posthuman" self-cloning entity expected to emerge soon, far from opening up the way to pure spirituality, will simultaneously signal the end of what is traditionally designated as the uniquely human spiritual transcendence. All the celebrating of the new "enhanced" possibilities of sexual life that Virtual Reality offers cannot conceal the fact that, once cloning supplements sexual difference, the game is over." -Zizek, "No sex, please, we're post-human!" You can see this in the achronological shift from the original trilogy to the prequels: sexual love becomes the Jedi's enemy again. Attack of the clones.
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Dec 28, 2013 02:52
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mr. stefan posted:Actually, he drops it on the seat itself, not under it, but that comes with its own problems since it can easily just fall out again as its not even remotely secured. One could assume the seats come with some sort of artificial gravity, since nobody in that speeder wears a seatbelt.
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Dec 28, 2013 05:46
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Maxwell Lord posted:I think it makes sense psychologically, but it's still not a lot of fun to watch. It didn't ruin the film for me because there's a lot of stuff I like in it, but I can see why it was a deal breaker for some. It's not so much a dealbreaker as a pacing killer. I like your analysis of the scene as is, but including it in the movie just brings the whole thing to a screeching halt.
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Dec 28, 2013 08:54
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Mameluke posted:One could assume the seats come with some sort of artificial gravity, since nobody in that speeder wears a seatbelt. Yeah, this is actually the case according to background material, but you really don't have to resort to that to make a reasoned assumption. edit: Hbomberguy posted:EDIT: The really circuitous failed assassination of Amidala is completely intentional. Palpatine hires an assassin to hire an assassin-scapegoat to kill her using a weapon the Jedi can sense and destroy before they could do any damage, instead of just hiring Fett to shoot her with a gun. Also blowing up a ship with a decoy on it (he would've known it's a decoy, he's from Naboo himself and used to be a senator, hell he might have had a decoy himself back in the day) This is one read, but this ignores that it was legitimately in Palpatine's interest to have Padme whacked, which would have served a three-fold purpose: 1) Push Anakin even further to the dark side. 2) Wipe out the strongest figure opposing the creation of an Army of the Republic. 3) Ensure Nute Gunray pledges the resources of the Trade Federation to the Separatists. I think the unrealistically convoluted assassination plot is just an example of a minor plot hole (which all six Star Wars movies are full of). I don't think Kenobi was even supposed to discover the clone army yet, which explains why Jango tried to put as many degrees of separation between himself and the actual assassination as he could manage. Remember, the only reason Obi-Wan was able to find Kamino in the first place is because Zam's plot failed and Jango had to kill her with a Kamino saberdart, which Obi-Wan's friend Dexter just happened to recognize. I doubt even Palpatine is that good a master planner. Billy Idle fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 28, 2013 |
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Dec 28, 2013 09:56
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Billy Idle posted:I think the unrealistically convoluted assassination plot is just an example of a minor plot hole (which all six Star Wars movies are full of). How is that a plot hole?
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Dec 28, 2013 12:46
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Billy Idle posted:I think the unrealistically convoluted assassination plot is just an example of a minor plot hole Be real for a second: If Jango seriously wanted to not be discovered, why would he kill the assassin in front of the Jedi with a dart they only make on the planet he is hiding on? How is that not an intentional act by Jango? I mean you could say 'this part was "badly made", so I don't have to give any in-depth reading of it' but that would be disingenuous. The ridiculous assassination plot is in the movie. Jango Fett even gets a scene with the assassin, to establish that he, a bounty hunter who kills people for money, has hired an assassin. The assassin is a shapeshifter entirely to highlight that they are a distraction from the real assassination, which is of Anakin and Obi-Wan's characters. The assassination subplot gives them both an excuse to spend almost the entire movie doing pointless things off the chessboard while Palpatine goes about the whole organising a rebellion thing. Which is to me a pretty honest attempt at portraying how real politics work. You distract your opponents (or hold the vote while they're absent) and then you go for the real victory.
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Dec 28, 2013 17:23
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Regarding the "was the assassination intended to succeed or fail?" thing, why not both? If Padme had gotten whacked, it would have opened one line of advancement for Palpatine, but if it failed he took precautions to ensure his goals were met anyway. That's pretty much his thing in the prequels after all, set things up as a "heads I win, tails you lose" scenario. Also doesn't hurt that some of the things worked for either alternative; nothing says Jango couldn't have used that dart to kill a successful assassin as easily as an unsuccessful one. Have the Jedi post-murder investigation pick up on it and it leads them where Palpatine wants them to go.Lord Krangdar posted:What makes the Senators greedy and corrupt to the Jedi, anyway? They just seem really (really) naive. Well, they were kinda unable to respond to one of their member sub-states getting invaded, for one thing. I mean, US politics is dysfunctional as hell at the moment, but if tomorrow Wells Fargo or similar sealed off a major city with an army to protest tax policy I think the US military would be down their throats shooting the second the "WTF?!!" reaction wore off. They didn't even ARREST any of the parties responsible afterwards, despite them blatantly committing murder (including the crew of an official government space vessel). Add in the off-camera but obvious fact that there's enough dissatisfaction to form a separatist force in the first place and I certainly conclude the Senate was a bunch of corrupt/criminally incompetent assholes. The jackasses voted in a dictator by an obviously high majority to boot. Mameluke posted:One could assume the seats come with some sort of artificial gravity, since nobody in that speeder wears a seatbelt. Pretty much has to be given they dove straight down at one point; I'd think minus artificial gravity even if they did have lap belts they'd be dangling by them noticeably at some point during that maneuver.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:23
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Hbomberguy posted:Be real for a second: If Jango seriously wanted to not be discovered, why would he kill the assassin in front of the Jedi with a dart they only make on the planet he is hiding on? How is that not an intentional act by Jango? Except they're 2 low-rank jedi. Why would Palpatine care about them at all?
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Dec 29, 2013 07:14
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Palpatine is watching Anakin's career with great interest; loving with the Chosen One would be a profitable decision for any Sith Lord. Obi-Wan is a nobody, but he's a nobody that Anakin answers to.
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Dec 29, 2013 07:19
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effectual posted:Except they're 2 low-rank jedi. Why would Palpatine care about them at all? Anakin's no lank rank Jedi, despite his standing. One could look at all the moves of AOTC and ROTS by Palapatine as either/both maneuvers to gain total control or as maneuvers to seduce Anakin to the Dark Side - which is his more important goal.
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Dec 29, 2013 15:39
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effectual posted:Except they're 2 low-rank jedi. Why would Palpatine care about them at all? You're forgetting, in addition to everyone else's responses, that Yoda and Mace Windu, the two best Jedi, join in the wild goose chase with Amidala's assassin and waste a bunch of time doing it, to the point where they ignore the larger issues of the existence of a clone army to find Amidala's assassin. They do this to such an extent that, when they get the clones, they just go 'okay sure let's head off into the clone wars now!!!!!' and no-one remembers that whole mysterious corporate espionage thing. It's a pretty funny representation of real politics. Palpatine could be doing this for a lot of reasons. One: If the Jedi were PAYING ATTENTION, they would find the existence and convenience of a clone army weird, and look into it and maybe even not accept them as an army, which would mess with his plan. Two: They might notice Order 66 is just 'kill all the Jedi' written in politi-speak. Three: If the Jedi for a single moment did their loving job and paid attention to the problems with the Senate, and had the compassion to do something about it, they would solve the separatist issue through peaceful means with no need for war, and Palpatine would never have been able to gently caress things up so god drat badly. The implication is that the Jedi are agents of the peace, not peace itself. The sort of people who will go to extreme lengths to make sure the toilets are clean and all the poo poo has been exterminated, not realising they're on the Hindenburg or, to put it another way, trapped on a planet that will eventually die. Palpatine in the prequels is the most transcendant figure. He has goals, and he achieves them by manufacturing problems that obfuscate and then 'solving' them. That's really underhanded and devious, and the Jedi don't (if I recall) start doing anything that lovely until the OT when they lie to Luke to make him want to kill Darth Vader. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Dec 29, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 15:54
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