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THE PWNER posted:In Baldur's Gate, battles are tuned to a reasonable level for the players assumed progression. Combat is fun and engaging. In AoD, it seems like 90% of battles, even the ones in the starting town, are mathematically impossible on a fresh character. They're also entirely dice rolls without much strategy involved.\ When I played the original beta combat was just put literally every single point into a weapons skill and defense skill and then you can do combat. If you don't you'll just die to literally the first fight in the game. It was a common complaint that the first guy murked people who did not do this and the head guy said "working as designed lol what a bunch of noobs." The mercenary story line in particular was basically impossible if you didn't do this.
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Dec 8, 2013 00:01
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Leinadi posted:He wasn't forced to change anything. They changed it because of the feedback they got from the testers, simple as that. Basically the opposite of what many people are complaining about when they say "omg these guys don't listen to my feedback!" He called me a noob when I told him the character system encouraged save scumming and then months later does an interview where he says "we completely changed the system cause it encouraged save scumming." His attitude was the same for everyone else who complained. Great thanks for listening to feed back after making GBS threads on me and everyone else who was having the same problems, will buy early access release and a few copies for my friends.
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Dec 8, 2013 00:03
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I'm currently in a strategy-guide-writing mood, so I'd like to gauge interest in what games people want more FAQs of, for older games. I'm currently writing up Phantasie I in extreme detail. This isn't because I think there's any demand for it, and the one on GameFAQs is already pretty good; I just like Phantasie I  but for anything else I want to satisfy some demand for information.The games I think might want more detail are: Might and Magic I, II: I don't think I've ever seen anyone publish actual complete maps of these games. No maps I've seen show anything remotely close to everything there is. The official hint books only give the basic layout of each map, not specific details as to what's where except for the most important things. Also, you start out with some brutally hard combat; early-game hints to overcome this are probably welcomed. Might and Magic III: Well, not really, but by this point it wouldn't take much to convert the FAQ I already have into a full-blown walkthrough. And unlike IV and V, combat is also difficult enough to warrant additional comments. Might and Magic VI, VII, VIII: There is a lot of detail in these games not covered in any FAQ or strategy guide I know of. I have a partially-written MM8 FAQ that's currently 500K; that might end up finishing first just because I've already done a lot of work on it. (No, I haven't touched it for ages. No, it isn't even close to done, actually; any completed FAQ I write for these games will be ~1M of pure text.) Ultima VI: Have you seen what's out there? It's pathetic compared to information available for the rest of the series, for such a classic game. Wizardry VII: This is much better covered than Wizardry VI; the main reason I wrote a long Wizardry VI guide in the first place is because I thought that what existed out there didn't cover game mechanics well. Since the extant guides for Wizardry VII are much better, it'd be a lot of work to write something better. However, enough people have asked me for one that I wonder if I should. (As long as Flamestryke's site remains out there somewhere, VIII needs no further coverage. V is the only other game in the main series that might merit more attention.) More modern series like Baldur's Game, Diablo, and Fallout are pretty strongly covered; no point in touching those. The official clue books for the AD&D Gold Box and Eye of the Beholder games are pretty good, and aren't hard to download these days, so there isn't much point to doing those. Almost the only thing worth writing up is rolling up and developing a party, because that isn't really covered, it's important, and being able to transfer characters from one game to the next complicates things. It might be worth writing just that up, because it wouldn't take long. If no one really wants these badly enough I'll probably do the Civilization series. As in, at least the first four games, and I'm only excluding the fifth because I've never played it. You'd think someone would write a decent and accurate guide for such a well-loved series, but I haven't seen any complete guide that's any better than passable for any of the first four games. Those games are beyond the scope of this thread though
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Dec 22, 2013 01:40
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Boldor posted:I'm currently in a strategy-guide-writing mood, so I'd like to gauge interest in what games people want more FAQs of, for older games. I'm currently writing up Phantasie I in extreme detail. This isn't because I think there's any demand for it, and the one on GameFAQs is already pretty good; I just like Phantasie I My memories of surviving early on in the first two M&M games basically consist of using crowd-control spells like Sleep and Web to minimise the number of attacks I had to take, using First Aid to revive anyone who was knocked unconscious, and running like hell from anything with multi-target attacks or the ability to inflict dangerous status conditions (in the early game, that mostly means Acidic Blobs in both 1 and 2, Rakshasas, Harpies and Clerics in 1, and Screaming Pods and Killer Cadavers in 2). Having two clerics in the party (instead of, say, a cleric and a paladin) is probably overkill later on but it does help with that early-game difficulty hump. It probably would be nice to have some fully annotated maps out there, considering just how many neat little events those games have. quote:Might and Magic III: Well, not really, but by this point it wouldn't take much to convert the FAQ I already have into a full-blown walkthrough. And unlike IV and V, combat is also difficult enough to warrant additional comments. Strategy in M&M3 usually boils down to "make sure you've got combat buffs active in tough fights" and "get obsidian weapons ASAP". Once you've got Mountaineer and Swimmer plus a few levels under your belt, you can pick up obsidian gear easily enough from the island to the east of the starting area, which lets you walk over a whole lot of the rest of the game. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about M&M 6 through 8 -- I've played them, but not really to the point of developing firm strategies the way i have with earlier games. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 05:23
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Boldor posted:Ultima VI: Have you seen what's out there? It's pathetic compared to information available for the rest of the series, for such a classic game. Honestly, I think the reason for this is that U6 fell over in a stiff breeze. The combat wasn't great, the story was hilariously easy to short-circuit, and while there were a few optional dungeons scattered around they weren't really noteworthy. The story was good, as they went, and it was pretty as heck, but it just didn't hang together all that well.
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Dec 22, 2013 05:43
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Thuryl posted:My memories of surviving early on in the first two M&M games basically consist of using crowd-control spells like Sleep and Web to minimise the number of attacks I had to take, using First Aid to revive anyone who was knocked unconscious, and running like hell from anything with multi-target attacks or the ability to inflict dangerous status conditions (in the early game, that mostly means Acidic Blobs in both 1 and 2, Rakshasas, Harpies and Clerics in 1, and Screaming Pods and Killer Cadavers in 2). Having two clerics in the party (instead of, say, a cleric and a paladin) is probably overkill later on but it does help with that early-game difficulty hump. I hadn't ever thought of actually rotating characters in MM1, because I didn't think even early you'd get much benefit. You really want 3 melee characters of some kind, a cleric, and a sorcerer early on. About the only character that you can dispense with is the robber, and even then you know how traps are in that game. quote:It probably would be nice to have some fully annotated maps out there, considering just how many neat little events those games have. I'm not certain what I should use for this; I was originally thinking of drawing the entire thing in ASCII, but that seems a trifle oldschool even for an oldschool game. I suppose it's time to look into Grid Cartographer, and pull my pile of maps out of storage for a conversion effort. When I first played MM2 I was completionist enough to play the entire game without any pathfinders or mountaineers. Most of the dense forests and mountains in that game actually have secret passages you can work your way through (which I painstakingly mapped out), and if all else fails you can break out Etherealize or Teleport anyway. quote:Strategy in M&M3 usually boils down to "make sure you've got combat buffs active in tough fights" and "get obsidian weapons ASAP". Once you've got Mountaineer and Swimmer plus a few levels under your belt, you can pick up obsidian gear easily enough from the island to the east of the starting area, which lets you walk over a whole lot of the rest of the game. Knowing to buff up goes pretty far, yeah. I'm not sure exactly where you're getting these obsidian items, though; which ones do you mean? Do you mean the ones in B4? That isn't really that close, and the stashes in B4 are small enough that you probably have to savescum for beelining them to be worth it. I'm not sure which one of us would be better at a MM3 speed run. (I don't think the PC versions of MM1 or MM2 would work for stunt runs, but MM3-MM8 all ought to work well.) Something to try to get on speeddemosarchive perhaps? I would be pretty surprised if there were more than about five people in the entire world who know that game better than both of us, and that includes the original programmers and designers. I've been thinking about it ever since speeddemosarchive relaxed their restrictions on using DOSBox.quote:I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about M&M 6 through 8 -- I've played them, but not really to the point of developing firm strategies the way i have with earlier games. A broad outline of which characters and skills to develop is already in my posts; the best ones are actually linked to in the OP already. I was planning to write up an extensive guide to everything in those games. Game mechanics in MM6-MM8 are known with close to 100% certainty (treasure generation in treasure chests is just about the only unknown), unlike many other older games. (It probably wouldn't be hard to experiment with other older games to figure out exactly how things like to-hit mechanics work, but that kind of thing is repetitive enough that I might not ever do it.) I guess I can summarize the various parties you might run in MM6 and MM7: MM6: (K=Knight, P=Paladin, A=Archer, C=Cleric, D=Druid, S=Sorcerer) All classes are equally good at using bows; armor skill isn't very useful; and dual-wielded daggers are fast enough that they are only a little worse than a melee character dual-wielding a spear and a sword. And since spellcasters wield awesome powers later in this game, you want to load up on them.
MM7: (K=Knight, M=Monk, T=Thief, P=Paladin, A=Archer, C=Cleric, D=Druid, S=Sorcerer) [also R=Ranger, but they suck] For this game, there is a pretty large advantage to selecting 4 completely different classes. Being able to cast all spells at GM level is very useful, so you pretty much have to have a Cleric and a Sorcerer.
Bieeardo posted:Honestly, I think the reason for this is that U6 fell over in a stiff breeze. The combat wasn't great, the story was hilariously easy to short-circuit, and while there were a few optional dungeons scattered around they weren't really noteworthy. The story was good, as they went, and it was pretty as heck, but it just didn't hang together all that well. I suppose in that sense U6 is more like an adventure game with a RPG duct-taped on, but U7 is like that too and almost everyone who cares agrees Black Gate is a great game. The combat system in U6 certainly is better than it was in U4 (too easy) or U7 (too little control), I think; it's not that easy unless you know which spells are the good ones, and if you really want control over everyone you can do it. At the very least you never have party members shooting each other in the back U7-style If you played unpatched versions of U6, those had some nasty, nasty bugs. Versions lower than 2, if you happened to play them, were especially bad; anything below 4 is bad enough. Although honestly I kind of want original disks with the old crappy versions, for sake of historical preservation; even abandonware sites don't care about that kind of thing and tend to have only the latest and greatest. I mean, can you imagine console RPG people chucking out old versions of Final Fantasy 6? (No sketch bug, no MBlock bug ...)
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Dec 22, 2013 07:26
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Boldor posted:Ultima VI: Have you seen what's out there? It's pathetic compared to information available for the rest of the series, for such a classic game. I, for one, would be interested in reading this. That game is such a nostalgia trip for me. The character guides for the Goldbox games would also be pretty interesting.
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Dec 22, 2013 13:16
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Boldor, I'm actually thinking of going PDSS. Kind of sad that no cleric is no big deal since years of RPGs have ingrained in me the YOU MUST HAVE A HEALER mindset, but I trust your judgement. I normally would *never* take 2 of one class, but since you genuinely build characters in this game and seem to have something resembling specialisation, it seems like 2 sorcerers could do 2 different things and feel distinct.
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Dec 22, 2013 15:45
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JustJeff88 posted:Boldor, I'm actually thinking of going PDSS. Kind of sad that no cleric is no big deal since years of RPGs have ingrained in me the YOU MUST HAVE A HEALER mindset, but I trust your judgement. I normally would *never* take 2 of one class, but since you genuinely build characters in this game and seem to have something resembling specialisation, it seems like 2 sorcerers could do 2 different things and feel distinct. For what it's worth, PDCS is the party I used for my playthrough of M&M6, and that should work fine too if you'd rather not duplicate classes. You just won't quite have the same offensive oomph as two Sorcerers in the midgame (by the late-game you can mostly just spam dark magic so it doesn't matter so much).
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Dec 22, 2013 15:49
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Thuryl posted:For what it's worth, PDCS is the party I used for my playthrough of M&M6, and that should work fine too if you'd rather not duplicate classes. You just won't quite have the same offensive oomph as two Sorcerers in the midgame (by the late-game you can mostly just spam dark magic so it doesn't matter so much). Thanks Thuryl. As I said to Boldor, I just like to play with all of the toys, so I want a party that can use as many spells and skills as possible. PACS seemed best for that, but I was thinking that I needed some melee. Since casters are pretty good in a punch-up in this game, though, I guess that I don't.
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Dec 22, 2013 15:50
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Boldor posted:If you played unpatched versions of U6, those had some nasty, nasty bugs. Versions lower than 2, if you happened to play them, were especially bad; anything below 4 is bad enough. Although honestly I kind of want original disks with the old crappy versions, for sake of historical preservation; even abandonware sites don't care about that kind of thing and tend to have only the latest and greatest. I mean, can you imagine console RPG people chucking out old versions of Final Fantasy 6? (No sketch bug, no MBlock bug ...) True enough on the tactics, though I'll admit U5 was my favourite of the second trilogy. The bugs, though. Holy poo poo, the bugs. U6 was the reason I got a sound card (a friend's dad ran a computer store, and listening to it play Rule Britannia as we tooled around Castle British blew my mind), but wow. I think my favourite glitch was all of the doors vanishing. That one was handy sometimes, if you didn't have traditional lockpicking tools, like Magic Unlock and that cannon you'd been dragging around. That is, it was, until you realized that it erased all of the stairs, ladders and holes that it used to move you between ground layers, and had to hope you'd saved before that struck.
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Dec 22, 2013 16:12
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JustJeff88 posted:Boldor, I'm actually thinking of going PDSS. Kind of sad that no cleric is no big deal since years of RPGs have ingrained in me the YOU MUST HAVE A HEALER mindset, but I trust your judgement. I normally would *never* take 2 of one class, but since you genuinely build characters in this game and seem to have something resembling specialisation, it seems like 2 sorcerers could do 2 different things and feel distinct. In most games with a bunch of character classes, different classes genuinely bring completely different skillsets to the table. There just isn't as big a distinction in MM6 (which is one reason why the game isn't as good as it could have been), even though every class is genuinely useful for specific kinds of runs. The best healing spell in MM6 is "teleport to a temple, heal at temple for peanuts, teleport back to thick of action". It's stronger than even a high-power Shared Life or Power Cure spell, partly because healing at a temple also restores spell points. People often don't realize that, and if you're a MM3-MM5 veteran you additionally come in thinking that temple healing is pretty expensive; it's dirt cheap in MM6 unless you're dead or worse. Early in the game you don't even need to teleport, just run to the temple in New Sorpigal and back. It's still useful to be able to heal yourself (it takes a while to develop the teleport magic, for one thing), but for that, all you need is Spirit Magic or Body Magic, which a druid can do just as well as a cleric; the big thing MM6 clerics do that druids can't is cast Light/Dark magic, which in MM6 does very little for healing; those spells are much better for offense. Druids do have a harder time getting promoted, but if you're going to be completionist you're going to do the druid promotion quests no matter what anyway, so that's not going to affect you much. One drawback of using a cleric is that they can't dual-wield weapons, which makes them worse in physical combat than other classes. The stun ability that you can get at high Mace skill doesn't do much in MM6, because of (guess what) a bug, which I don't think even the latest unofficial patch fixes. I don't think it's high priority to fix, because even the fixed version of MM7 accomplishes little. (However, the paralyze ability at GM Mace is awesome in MM7/MM8.) Bieeardo posted:True enough on the tactics, though I'll admit U5 was my favourite of the second trilogy. U5 seems to be the most well-liked game in the second trilogy these days, really; it just wasn't as groundbreaking as U4 was. (Not many people seem to know my favorite treasure-farming trick in U5: there's a room on level 6 of Wrong that has 3 dragons, 2 loose treasure chests, and 1 sea serpent. Go in with everyone invisible, kill dragons by exploiting your invisibility, loot the five chests, leave the serpent alone so the room isn't flagged as cleared, repeat as many times as desired. 3 dragons are worth 75 experience, which is quite a lot by U5 standards, and the five treasure chests you can repeatedly loot give you tons of stuff in a hurry.) If you had the vanishing-doors bug in U6, you were playing a particularly buggy version (probably sub-v2), yeah. It took a while for Origin to vanquish bugs related to containers, too; if you either nested containers inside containers or put a large number of objects into a container, your inventory tended to become corrupt on versions lower than about 4; the most up-to-date version (I think it's v4.5) does not have this problem. I hope you carried the cannon around by picking it up (you can Move the cannon into a container, then pick up the container), not by issuing the Move command repeatedly! The Explosion spell does most of the useful things the cannon does, though. The only heavy item I typically carried around in U6 is the skiff, since it's useful in so many places to be able to go sailing at will; the only advantage a real sailing ship has over the skiff in U6 is that the ship has cannons. This doesn't work in U5 since you get battered by waves hard, and a U7 sailing ship comes with a convenient cargo hold. You can also duplicate many objects in U6 without resorting to any kind of hacking. Put the item you want to duplicate on the ground, then cast Animate on it, which will bring it to life. You can then cast Clone on the animated object; you can then kill the animated clones, and they will leave behind "bodies" of the original objects. You can even leave the original behind, because in many cases it will count as stealing.
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Dec 22, 2013 21:36
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Boldor posted:I have a partially-written MM8 FAQ that's currently 500K... Oh my god, you're one of those people. Thank you for building these tomes, they're often the only resource I have when I get stuck on something specific or need to read about the game systems. I hate walkthroughs that are essentially 'do the quests and then you win!'
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Dec 23, 2013 19:13
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Twobirds posted:Oh my god, you're one of those people. ... and I'm one of those looneys who genuinely enjoys reading them. I'm not entirely proud to admit that, either. My mental maladies aside, I'm glad that people do them, though, because so many "classic" RPGs are so obtuse, buggy, hateful and unforgiving that somebody needs to come in and point out things like "specialising in axes will utterly gently caress you because the only axe in the game is made of almond paste and polystyrene" or that "spell Z does absolutely nothing and wearing a helmet will eventually make your character deaf." I'm only mildly exaggerating because some games are nearly that ridiculous.
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Dec 23, 2013 19:26
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Boldor posted:U5 seems to be the most well-liked game in the second trilogy these days, really; it just wasn't as groundbreaking as U4 was. (Not many people seem to know my favorite treasure-farming trick in U5: there's a room on level 6 of Wrong that has 3 dragons, 2 loose treasure chests, and 1 sea serpent. Go in with everyone invisible, kill dragons by exploiting your invisibility, loot the five chests, leave the serpent alone so the room isn't flagged as cleared, repeat as many times as desired. 3 dragons are worth 75 experience, which is quite a lot by U5 standards, and the five treasure chests you can repeatedly loot give you tons of stuff in a hurry.) I can't remember exactly why, but I ended up skipping from Ultima 1 to Ultima 5, and when I went back to the earlier ones I couldn't get past some of the clunkiness. My best shot at U2 was wrecked when a demon got stuck in a time gate, stranding me in an awkward spot, and the version of U3 that came in the Trilogy Pack I got was some kind of hellbastard build that spawned dragons and krakens if you dicked around too long. I got to U4 around the time that U6 came out, so I'd got out of the habit of taking notes, and the lack of U5's minor upgrades (like being able to aim anywhere on the screen) didn't help either. That and half my characters started as Shepherds outside Magincia. A friend and I used the invisibility trick (that I'd stumbled on during a catastrophic visit to Blackthorn's castle) along with Lord British's crown to farm the lower exit of a dungeon whose name eludes me. There were wisps in the walls (which couldn't escape, thanks to the crown's anti-magic effect) and three demons that we farmed for XP and occasional loot, as well as three chests that we raided for loot. Since the ladder down was right by the mobs, we'd pop out into the Underworld (hooray for dual disc drives!) and right back in. I think I remember a U6 inventory glitching out once, though that might have been Savage Empire, since the version I had didn't have a multi-page inventory and forced you to use containers to fake it. There was usually a cannon in inventory, though that was thanks to hacks or fooling around with the debugger you could get into by telling 'spam' 'spam' 'spam' 'humbug' to Iolo. Never thought to use the Clone spell like that! Then again, I don't think I tried using the Duplicate spell to counterfeit until Serpent Isle. I do remember using spells to duplicate swamp boots on a 'pure' run because it was cheaper (easier?) than buying the things, but that would have been a lot more entertaining. I abused the Hell out of the alt-213 code, regardless of whether I was fooling around or not. Some of those dungeons were labyrinthine, and I was playing on a really slow computer.
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Dec 23, 2013 20:11
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Bieeardo posted:Honestly, I think the reason for this is that U6 fell over in a stiff breeze. The combat wasn't great, the story was hilariously easy to short-circuit, and while there were a few optional dungeons scattered around they weren't really noteworthy. The story was good, as they went, and it was pretty as heck, but it just didn't hang together all that well.  No, but anecdotally it seemed like everyone owned a copy of the amazingly detailed Ultima VI hintbook, so I personally never looked online for things even once that became possible a few years after the game came out. But I would probably read anything Boldor wrote just because I remember those amazing posts earlier in this thread and because I love Ultima VI.
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Dec 24, 2013 08:42
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Skwirl posted:I, for one, would be interested in reading this. That game is such a nostalgia trip for me. I agree. Ultima VI was one of my all-time favourites as an early teen, and I'd actually like to do a playthrough (focusing on adventure and story more than combat and - ugh - inventory management in that engine) now as an adult and see how it holds up. This gets my vote...
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Dec 24, 2013 09:58
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The Realms of Arkania remake finally got it's long-awaited massive overhaul yesterday, so I decided to pick it up for  .Well...if this is what it's like after the major patch, I'd hate to see how it was when it initially came out. I mean, it's totally janky and I expected that, with things like awkward translations, bad VA, stiff controls, weird mechanics, and the like. And...I was basically working my way through it all, nothing so bad that I wanted to just quit and never play again. But then I got to my first battle, a random encounter while camping out in the middle of town. A few bandits. Nothing too bad, right? Nope, it turns out that my party is riddled with incompetence and can land maybe one hit out of fifteen attempts. The pace was absolutely glacial and it was obvious from the very start that I had no chance of coming out victorious. UGH. If you're going to fix nothing else from here on, Craft Studios, PlEASE at least fix the combat!
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Dec 24, 2013 15:20
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Great Rumbler posted:The Realms of Arkania remake finally got it's long-awaited massive overhaul yesterday, so I decided to pick it up for I have not been able to figure out how to camp in the remake properly before or after the patch. If I wait until my guys camp on their own, no one will do anything at all because "you can't do two things at once either!" and if I camp early, sending one person to hunt or gather herbs for an hour advances time that hour. Isn't there some way to give all 6 guys orders and then they all go do their things? I seem to remember Star Trail working that way back in the day.
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Dec 24, 2013 15:36
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I just went to the camp menu and selected to advance the time. It was night and I needed to get into a store to buy supplies, except that it didn't open until morning. Should have slept at an inn, I guess, but I didn't feel like doing that.
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Dec 24, 2013 15:43
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Not sure exactly how old school this would be but I want to start up KOTOR and wanted to know if theres anything I should know before a first run or any mods/fixes that are seen as required?
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Dec 24, 2013 16:07
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JustJeff88 posted:... and I'm one of those looneys who genuinely enjoys reading them. I'm not entirely proud to admit that, either. I wrote some of this stuff up even if I don't think anyone will ever read it (in fact some of these FAQs predate my Internet access), which is weird in its own way. But I enjoy it, that's good enough for me quote:My mental maladies aside, I'm glad that people do them, though, because so many "classic" RPGs are so obtuse, buggy, hateful and unforgiving that somebody needs to come in and point out things like "specialising in axes will utterly gently caress you because the only axe in the game is made of almond paste and polystyrene" or that "spell Z does absolutely nothing and wearing a helmet will eventually make your character deaf." I'm only mildly exaggerating because some games are nearly that ridiculous. Well, for older games this was before game designers got it into their heads that gotchas like that were not a great thing. When Infocom was designing the sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, they added a puzzle that would give you points if solved, but doing this would prevent you from winning the game. This is because Douglas Adams thought this was hilarious; he actually believed deliberate cruelty was a virtue in a game, and Infocom didn't stop him because, well, Douglas Adams. These days people are aware enough of shenanigans like this that they don't plead nearly as much as they used to for ~Real Writers~ to write computer games. (Even 25 years ago Computer Gaming World realized this was a bad idea; they'd print clearly eye-rolling responses to anyone who expressed such a desire.) Also, concepts like "thorough beta-testing" and "patches" weren't taken all that seriously. You probably want to know the major gotchas of MM6 and MM7. You already know the most important one in MM6: magic is far stronger than might (and it follows that choosing the right spellcasters, and developing the right spell skills, makes an enormous difference). There are two others:
On the other hand, the main statistics (Might, Intellect, etc.) don't matter very much. Starting values only make a difference when starting out, since you'll eventually get a lot more; they also don't have as much impact as they do in MM1-5 or most other games. Once you increase a stat above 50, increasing stats further does very little. MM7 doesn't have much in the way of gotchas as long as you start with a Cleric and a Sorcerer, and most people just reading the manual figure out correctly they want one of each of those anyway. Also be aware the game's plot branches, but it's pretty obvious when and where it does so; keep a save from before that if you want to take a different path later.
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Dec 24, 2013 23:48
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World of Xeen (M&M4 + M&M5) was my all time favorite game growing up. I've mastered the loving thing. Everyone needs to play it, especially with the digitized speech that comes in the GOG mega bundle. The voice acting makes the loving game. edit: Ok gently caress it. I'm gonna run through this game again. End goal: 100% completion + kill mega dragon. I'm ready to power game the gently caress out of this. So it's been probably 15 years since I played this game and I'm a bit fuzzy. Please critique my plan here from a pure min/max powergame point of view. So I remember exp being the one roadbloack for 90% of the game, then suddenly in the very late game gold becomes the limiting factor since it costs so god drat much to train a new level. Is this a common problem or was I just bad with money as a kid? I'm thinking that means I should get as much gold in the bank as early and often as possible and just milk that compound interest like mad. Also, I remember spellcasters being totally worthless late game since almost every spell just does flat damage like "50-100 damage" instead of something that scales like "does 10 damage per caster level". Thus, I'm thinking of only getting spellcasters for casting day of protection/day of sorcery and nothing else. I'm thinking paladin instead of cleric, and maybe ranger instead of mage? Will that work? GuyDudeBroMan fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 25, 2013 00:31
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Boldor posted:Stuff (replaced for brevity) I'll keep that in mind. My completionist instinct is aggravated by the thought that I can't get every artifact in one playthrough. I'm wondering, though, about the power of statistics. I read a... thing somewhere that said about a quirk early in VI where you can find a scroll of Fly, use it to go somewhere and take a portal to an end-game area where you will be immediately devoured by end-game monsters, but there's an idol you can click for +20 to every stat on all characters. Then you just die and get taken back to New Sorpigal. Sounds worth a go. Actually, I bookmarked it. If you want to see it, it's here. GuyDudeBroMan posted:World of Xeen (M&M4 + M&M5) was my all time favorite game growing up. I've mastered the loving thing. Everyone needs to play it, especially with the digitized speech that comes in the GOG mega bundle. The voice acting makes the loving game. It's something special. Definitely the apex of the 2D, 6/8 party members earlier M&M games. I have the package on GOG, but I found an easy-ware (click and go with DosBox built in) version of the whole World of Xeen supergame in French on a French abandonware site. It's not there anymore, and I'm glad that I got it before it was gone. Backed it the gently caress up, you'd better believe. (I'm sorry if what I just said is FILES!, but I'm not going to apologise for downloading a foreign-language version of a game that's no longer printed and which I already own legally.)
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Dec 25, 2013 00:55
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JustJeff88 posted:
It's just so loving cheesy! A huge D&D ripoff and I love it. Like in the loving official hintbook when you look up weapon stats it has poo poo like: Longsword - 3D4 Mace - 2d7 And they never even tell you what "d" means. Why the gently caress couldn't they say "does 2-14 damage"? Nope! They gotta say "2d7". Everything is stupid as hell and thats what makes this game so awesome. Vampires that yell "BLAH" every time they attack, Ogres that fart on you, Orcs who's primary attack is to vomit on you. Everything is loving amazing. World of Xeen is to RPG's what Evil Dead 2/Army of Darkness is to horror movies. Plus the game is epic as all hell. There is something amazing about taking a party of level 1 idiots who die to slimes and rats, all the way to godly status 1 shotting dragons, over an 80 hour long voyage. Only Baulders gate manages to do this same epic growth process.
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Dec 25, 2013 01:04
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:It's just so loving cheesy! A huge D&D ripoff and I love it. Like in the loving official hintbook when you look up weapon stats it has poo poo like: I love Xeen because it's a direct sequel, spiritually if not story-wise, to M&M3 and improves on it in every way except, very arguably, for party size*. Adding the "Day of Z" spells was a genius move, and equipment makes more sense as you can't wear 10 rings anymore (seriously?) and there's more inventory space. My favourite change, though, is that certain pieces of wearable gear, like body armour, helmets etc affect AC but others like rings, brooches and amulets don't. In M&M3 you felt pressured to load up on AC like crazy, but an obsidian ring means gently caress all in World except to sell, so it makes you think of "accessories" as a way to load up on elemental protections, especially Energy for the endgame. * - I'm aware that high-level hirelings in M&M3 were too expensive to be sustainable, but I still like big parties. I've said it before, but I'd still pay handsomely for an M&M3 remake with World of Xeen rules. WoX is a sequel to a great game that did everything better. I don't blame them for taking M&M VI in another direction (though I don't like the smaller parties) because I don't think that they could possibly top Xeen.
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Dec 25, 2013 01:48
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:World of Xeen (M&M4 + M&M5) was my all time favorite game growing up. I've mastered the loving thing. Everyone needs to play it, especially with the digitized speech that comes in the GOG mega bundle. The voice acting makes the loving game. Nah, you're 100% right -- gold increasingly becomes a limiting factor as you exceed level 50 or so. Compound interest from the bank can help, but it's painfully slow (1% per in-game week). There's also an infinite money loop in Darkside that you can take advantage of once you have Mountaineering skill and at least 250,000 gold: Go to the Gemstone Mines and mine gemstone rocks (savescum to get as many Ruby and Emerald Rocks as possible, while getting ordinary gems from the Sapphire and Diamond mines). Once you've mined them out completely, find the God of Minerals in one of the northern mines and pay him to reset the gemstone veins, and then go mine them again. Repeat until you're out of gold or patience. Once you have your huge supply of rocks and gems, go to the gemsmiths around the lake to the south and forge as much ruby and emerald armour as you can. Savescum until you get plate armour each time. Then go sell it for mad cash. If you do it right, you'll end up with more gold and gems than you started with. quote:Also, I remember spellcasters being totally worthless late game since almost every spell just does flat damage like "50-100 damage" instead of something that scales like "does 10 damage per caster level". Thus, I'm thinking of only getting spellcasters for casting day of protection/day of sorcery and nothing else. I'm thinking paladin instead of cleric, and maybe ranger instead of mage? Will that work? Some of those fixed-damage spells do enough fixed damage that they're pretty handy to have even in the late game, like Implosion. Still, the only thing Clerics and Sorcerers really have over Paladins and Archers is some extra spell points, and there are enough SP-boosting fountains scattered around the outdoor map that you can absolutely go without a full Cleric or Sorcerer and just use the hybrid casters if you want to.
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Dec 25, 2013 02:14
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Thuryl posted:Nah, you're 100% right -- gold increasingly becomes a limiting factor as you exceed level 50 or so. Compound interest from the bank can help, but it's painfully slow (1% per in-game week). There's also an infinite money loop in Darkside that you can take advantage of once you have Mountaineering skill and at least 250,000 gold: Oh yeah I think I thought of this idea way back when I was a kid but never actually tried it. I do remember farming Sandro the lich over and over and over again since he dropped gems when you killed him and he would respawn instantly if you never finished his quest line. When you were strong enough to 1 shot him, it was a pretty quick way to get gems. So from a power gaming point of view, do you really even need 6 party members? Wouldn't it actually be better to have less since its more exp, more gold per person spent on levels, and more stats per person from stat boosts? Critique my thought process here. I was thinking something like this: Barbarian - What is the point of the Knight? Doesnt the barb have more hp/level and more attacks/round? I know the Knight can use plate mail and the barb cant but item prefixes don't multiply base AC stats, they just add a static amount. So the difference between high level plate and high level chain is what? Like 50 AC vs 48 or so? Who cares? Ninja - Someone with open locks is mandatory in this game and that skill can never be learned, so its either ninja or robber. But what the hell is the point of the robber? They have less attacks per round, and start with 15 more open locks skill. So what? They don't get more open locks skill per level, they just start with more. 15 points is negligible at high levels. Paladin - His whole purpose in life is to cast Day of Protection and nothing else. I'm using him because he has way more hp/attacks than the cleric/druid. Archer - Same deal as Paladin. He is here to cast Day of Sorcery and jump/teleport, nothing more. Way better attacks and hp than sorcerer/druid.
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Dec 25, 2013 09:10
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Quarex posted:Ultima VI is still probably my favorite of the entire series, so you shut up Hey, I know how you feel. Ultima V ate like two years of my early adolescence, and I wouldn't ever ask for them back. Maybe it's an artifact of having played one of those half-baked early versions, but I remember being able to completely ignore finding both halves of that plot-important tablet, and with that out of the way everything else was fairly straightforward. When I did do a play-through, trying to actually find both halves of the tablet... holy gently caress was that a challenge! That and trying to find all the pieces of that torn-up treasure map. And then trying to arrange it properly. And then figuring out just where to dig... Boldor posted:Well, for older games this was before game designers got it into their heads that gotchas like that were not a great thing. When Infocom was designing the sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, they added a puzzle that would give you points if solved, but doing this would prevent you from winning the game. This is because Douglas Adams thought this was hilarious; he actually believed deliberate cruelty was a virtue in a game, and Infocom didn't stop him because, well, Douglas Adams. Ugh. Bureaucracy was an absolute rear end in a top hat of a game. Some of the puzzles followed a sort of twisted or cartoonish logic that wasn't too difficult to get, but other ones were just impenetrable. The last section was a collection of numbered rooms that you had to pass through in order of some progression that I never would have got when I was younger. This was before Infocom stopped trying to sell hint books and threw an internal hint-dispensing system together, too. Not that Hitchhiker's wasn't guilty of some serious bullshit before it.
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Dec 25, 2013 09:43
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:So from a power gaming point of view, do you really even need 6 party members? Wouldn't it actually be better to have less since its more exp, more gold per person spent on levels, and more stats per person from stat boosts? Critique my thought process here. Well, since the gold cost of training increases rapidly with level, if you spread out levels evenly across 6 characters you'll end up getting more levels in total than if you spread them across 4. There's also the force multiplier effect of clerical buffs: a full set of buffs is almost like having bonus levels for your entire party, so a bigger party means more people receiving bonuses. Also, it's really, really nice to have more than one character who can cast Lloyd's Beacon, so that you can hop back and forth between any two arbitrary locations. None of that is essential, though. Xeen is probably technically soloable with an archer if you're careful about what order to do things in and don't mind missing out on some treasure chests. quote:I was thinking something like this: Yeah, Knights are kind of bad. They were a bit better in M&M2 and 3, where the Barbarian's equipment selection was more severely restricted, but the Barbarian still ended up better off in the long run. quote:Ninja - Someone with open locks is mandatory in this game and that skill can never be learned, so its either ninja or robber. But what the hell is the point of the robber? They have less attacks per round, and start with 15 more open locks skill. So what? They don't get more open locks skill per level, they just start with more. 15 points is negligible at high levels. Robbers also have better HP and armour selection than ninjas: in particular, they can use shields while ninjas can't, which gives them a whole extra item slot to shove bonuses into. It's not earth-shattering, but it's something. Ninjas are probably still better in the late game, but between the better equipment choices and the higher starting thievery, robbers do have some advantages early on. quote:Paladin - His whole purpose in life is to cast Day of Protection and nothing else. I'm using him because he has way more hp/attacks than the cleric/druid. Yeah, it's hard to go wrong with a paladin. It's a solid all-around class whose only real flaw is that it's not quite as strong in melee as a Knight or Barbarian. quote:Archer - Same deal as Paladin. He is here to cast Day of Sorcery and jump/teleport, nothing more. Way better attacks and hp than sorcerer/druid. Sure. Levitation and teleport spells are essential for finishing the game, and you do want some attack magic for the handful of physical-immune enemies in the game, so you don't really want go without a sorcerous caster entirely, but an archer should do the job. Long story short, that party should work out just fine if it's what you want to do. World of Xeen isn't that difficult of a game, especially if you've already played through it once and know what will kill you and how. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 25, 2013 10:02
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Thuryl posted:Also, it's really, really nice to have more than one character who can cast Lloyd's Beacon, so that you can hop back and forth between any two arbitrary locations.
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Dec 25, 2013 10:16
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:edit: Ok gently caress it. I'm gonna run through this game again. End goal: 100% completion + kill mega dragon. I'm ready to power game the gently caress out of this. You can almost do this with level 1 characters! The only thing stopping you from getting 100% completion is that you're automatically given +5 levels in the Dungeon of Death. That is where my most recent playthrough went "screw it, let's train all the way from level 1 to level 255". If you choose to do a level 1 playthrough, the rough parts are the Dragon King on Cloudside and the Mega Dragon on Darkside (and that's assuming you complete all of Cloudside before touching Darkside). Nothing else is particularly difficult if you're familiar with the game. In order to have a realistic chance against those two dragons with level 1 characters, you're going to want to hoard energy-resistance equipment like crazy. It'll still take a lot of tries to take them down. quote:Also, I remember spellcasters being totally worthless late game since almost every spell just does flat damage like "50-100 damage" instead of something that scales like "does 10 damage per caster level". Thus, I'm thinking of only getting spellcasters for casting day of protection/day of sorcery and nothing else. I'm thinking paladin instead of cleric, and maybe ranger instead of mage? Will that work? Implosion, Mass Distortion, and other very high-level spells are still very good even if you're level 100+. The thing is, paladins and archers can cast those spells too! You can even visit spell point fountains so you have the juice to do so. If you want maximum power, the recommended party is 1 barbarian, 1 ninja, 2 paladins, 2 archers; this doesn't work so well if you don't know what you're doing, though. quote:So from a power gaming point of view, do you really even need 6 party members? Wouldn't it actually be better to have less since its more exp, more gold per person spent on levels, and more stats per person from stat boosts? Critique my thought process here. In addition to what Thuryl said, one problem with this is that there are a LOT of things that give +experience and +stats to the whole party, so focusing these on fewer characters doesn't matter as much as you think it might. Another problem is that once you go above around level 50, you just don't gain very much from training. You'll also hit the level training caps much sooner, which is another way more experience doesn't help as much. So having fewer characters doesn't actually help you like it does in Wizardry 7/8; it's only good for a challenge run. (If nothing else, the extra people gives you extra carrying capacity and more people who can cast Lloyd's Beacon.) You can do a 3-person run (ninja, paladin, archer) through the game and still easily complete 100% of the game. You can leave out the paladin if you want to cut things down further, since the only unique thing the paladin brings to the table is the ability to cast high-power clerical spells, and the only really important one is Mass Distortion. You do not need anyone who can cast Power Cure or Day of Protection or any spell that isn't so high-power; you can get those spells from spellcasting items. You do need the archer so you can cast Recharge Item on those items. Without a Paladin you probably also want to cart around items that can cast Revitalize, Cure Paralysis, Cure Poison, etc.; this will probably be annoying enough that you might want a Paladin just to save yourself the pain. JustJeff88 posted:I'm aware that high-level hirelings in M&M3 were too expensive to be sustainable, but I still like big parties. There's one old Apple II RPG that let your party size go up into the dozens. It's not available for PC. I don't remember what it's called though. MM3 has a pretty straightforward infinite money trick. Get the Merchant skill, an item that can cast Recharge Item, an item that can cast Duplication, and something valuable that you can duplicate (the best ones are Platinum Plate Armor and Platinum Amulets). An item that can cast Recharge Item can recharge itself (this also works in MM2, but not in MM4/MM5). You can stuff the Duplication spellcasting item full of charges this way, and duplicate the valuable item an infinite number of times, selling them in shops to get as much money as you want. You can now train hireling levels all you want. If you don't do that, there's also the trick of visiting a mage guild just before 5AM, and trying to do something there. If you do this, the 5AM triggers don't occur: your buffs don't expire, and you don't have to pay hirelings. You can overflow the to-hit variable in MM3; if you are very high-level and tack on a bunch of +to-hit stuff, your to-hit can wrap around from 255 back to 0. (This bug doesn't exist in MM4/MM5.) Levels in MM3 don't have much practical use beyond about 60th-70th, though. The ability to freely recharge any spellcasting item is why pure spellcasters aren't that good when powerplaying MM3; once you get the requisite items you can freely cast spells from items for no cost other than keystrokes. You still want paladins/archers/1 ranger around just so you don't have to carry around items that cast lower-level utility spells. I'm pretty sure winning MM3 with a level 1 party wouldn't be all that hard, either. This ought to be readily doable in all of MM2-MM7, actually (I've done it with MM4-MM5, and other people have done level 1 100% completion runs in MM6-MM7 ... with crappy all-knight and all-ranger parties, too).
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Dec 25, 2013 21:05
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Boldor posted:There's one old Apple II RPG that let your party size go up into the dozens. It's not available for PC. I don't remember what it's called though. Dunno if it's what you're thinking of, but you start out with a 25-man party in Dungeon Campaign, though the "individuals" in the party are highly abstracted. Theoretically you could probably use all 19 characters at once in Return of Herakles too, thought that would be a nightmare to control.
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Dec 25, 2013 22:20
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Genpei Turtle posted:Dunno if it's what you're thinking of, but you start out with a 25-man party in Dungeon Campaign, though the "individuals" in the party are highly abstracted. Theoretically you could probably use all 19 characters at once in Return of Herakles too, thought that would be a nightmare to control. That game still rules way hard for something from 1983, though.
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Dec 27, 2013 06:57
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Well, technically there were THREE megaparty games like that. Heracles and Ali Baba which got combined into one pack called Age of Adventure that I currently have because I just got it for my Atari 8 bit system a few weeks back:  And its spiritual sequel, also by Stuart Smith, ADVENTURE MOTHAFUCKING CONSTRUCTION SET. (Which I have for the Amiga but dunno if the disks or my Amiga still work.) Why ACS hasn't gotten a rerelease of some kind I just don't understand. Its like the only easy to use RPG maker program. No coding or scripting needed. PERIOD. But I bring other good news courtesy of RPG Codex. http://www.crystalshard.net/hq.htm Someone has made a FREE Quest for Glory clone. With a female character. And it looks to take place in a snowy environment. I haven't tried it out myself but they seem to like it over there well enough. I have been kinda busy trying games out on my new ipad Air, including many RPGs on the C64 apps. (Free Ultima 1-4 C64 versions! With iCade support so no using goddamned keys to move for U2-4! Alternate Reality City and Dungeon! Gateway to Apshai! Apshai Trilogy!) Hell, I haven't had much time to muck about with my Retro Computer Gaming thread here in Games lately. (Outside of like writing a list of games I want in a collecting subgenre.) But if this QfG homage is any good this will be kind of awesome.
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Dec 27, 2013 12:00
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So more World of Xeen theorycraft. Wondering the best strategy for the permanent stat boost distribution. Nothing is more annoying that clearing a dungeon out and not being able to open that last locked door or chest. Now I know the bash doors down uses the might of F1 and F2 characters, so all +might should really be given to them or at least the vast majority of it. But then again there are tons of "who will attempt to force open the box" type of encounters too, where you can only pick one character. Thus, I'm thinking that giving almost all the might to F1 might be best. Also, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to just give all the +luck to the ninja. He is the one who opens all the locked chests, so I might as well just designate him "official searcher/opener" for all things that don't require might. That way the +luck will help mitigate a lot of trap damage.
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Dec 28, 2013 22:27
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Captain Rufus posted:Well, technically there were THREE megaparty games like that. Didn't you have to recruit people on the way in that one? ie unlike RoH you can't just add everyone at the beginning. Age of Adventure was an awesome game--I'd still be playing my Apple II version occasionally if I hadn't inadvertently blown away the Return of Heracles side of the disk.  quote:And its spiritual sequel, also by Stuart Smith, ADVENTURE MOTHAFUCKING CONSTRUCTION SET. (Which I have for the Amiga but dunno if the disks or my Amiga still work.) Hell yes ACS! I think I got that when I was 8 or 9 for the Apple II and it was pure awesome. Rivers of Light was a great game, and The randomized adventure creator was pretty nice, too, even if they were nothing but scavenger hunts. It's amazing when you consider the power and versatility of that tool considering the limitations of the systems they were made for. quote:Hell, I haven't had much time to muck about with my Retro Computer Gaming thread here in Games lately. (Outside of like writing a list of games I want in a collecting subgenre.) I love that thread, it hasn't fallen into archives has it? I didn't bookmark it and can't find it. I keep meaning to do a writeup for some of the classic Japanese PC systems for that thread--before the mid-late '90s when the Japanese PC market became virtually porn-only there were some fantastic games--but 
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Dec 28, 2013 23:19
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Genpei Turtle posted:I love that thread, it hasn't fallen into archives has it? I didn't bookmark it and can't find it. I look forward to the day when I decide I have enough time to actually read that entire thread, few in posts though it is.
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Dec 29, 2013 01:34
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:So more World of Xeen theorycraft. My strategy is basically to stick enough Might on all melee characters to get them to at least 30 (after which you start to see significant diminishing returns) or 50 (when the diminishing returns become severe) and then dump everything else on the lead fighter. There's a substantial bonus to the effect of a stat if you manage to raise it all the way to 250 (unlikely in Clouds but quite possible in Darkside), but there's no point getting it any higher than that. quote:Also, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to just give all the +luck to the ninja. He is the one who opens all the locked chests, so I might as well just designate him "official searcher/opener" for all things that don't require might. That way the +luck will help mitigate a lot of trap damage. Luck also affects ailment resistance, so I like to give some to the clerical casters so that they can help keep the party up and fighting against enemies that inflict disabling status conditions.
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Dec 29, 2013 04:54
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Genpei Turtle posted:Didn't you have to recruit people on the way in that one? ie unlike RoH you can't just add everyone at the beginning. Age of Adventure was an awesome game--I'd still be playing my Apple II version occasionally if I hadn't inadvertently blown away the Return of Heracles side of the disk. C'mon man do it! Some folks are interested in the MSX and Sharp x68000 machines. I am still hitting myself over not getting Ogre MSX. It and Vampire Killer are pretty much the main games I want on it, plus Thexder 2 and the Hydlides and Black Onyx games. Black Onyx was like the first Jrpg even if it was made by a man more famous for giving Tetris to the world IIRC. (Well on consoles and popularizing it. Since everyone ignores computers.) I mean we got a couple JCRPGS in English mostly from Sierra (and err.. Porny ones from Megatech) but not many at all. gently caress we aren't even getting the remake of Sorcerian on the App Store in English. Or an older J Wizardry that is one of two Wizardries on the App Store. Yet some dude makes like 5 scenarios in Japan as an homage to classic Wizardry and he translated them! (Sorcerer.). There are a couple Dungeon Masters but with a different name. Not paying for piracy. (And mostly just hoping the DM Grimrock conversion ever gets done.) I am mostly a computer guy but a good game is a good game. It just annoys me how Japan and their pcs got the best versions if not outright sequels to so many of our RPGs on computers. Snes Wizardry 6. The Win 9x Wiz 1-3 (not entirely translated. Enjoy teleporting to death in Knight of Diamonds.) the PS1 Ultima Underworld. The FM Towns Ultima 1-3. This stuff needs love and knowledge man. It's not like the Jrpg fans care. It's not like the RPG codex cares unless it's ironically LPing Rance games. Outside of Hardcore Gaming 101 don't nobody cover it at all. Hell if it wasn't for them I wouldn't have known how damned many Apshai games there were.
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Dec 29, 2013 13:04
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