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TPG for Taiping Rebellion, not the most intuitive choice.
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Dec 26, 2013 00:59
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JGBeagle posted:Why is Fascism the best government in V2? I've never tried to become one (because well, Fascism) but I've heard people say this before. Fascism gives you the most control over your country. It gives you Jingoism, State Capitalism, and Protectionism, which are the best party policies. Additionally Fascist Dictatorships can enact or revoke any social or political reform at will. They also give you the coolest flag. SickZip fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 01:08
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JGBeagle posted:Also, since the V2 wiki is barely touched, what is the Heavenly Kingdom tag exactly? I've seen them appear from time to time but are always wiped out by the Chinese. The Kingdom of Heavenly Peace, or the Taiping, were a rebel state in southern China 1850-1864 that, in one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, attempted to overthrow the Manchu Qing Dynasty. Hong Xiuquan, its founder, failed the critical civil service examination and fell into a trance, upon coming to he proclaimed that the Christian God had communicated to him and annointed him, Hong, his second son and, by extension, the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Hong's followers ranged from those who actually believed his claim to those Han Chinese just eager for anyone to throw out the Manchu Qing. Over a decade of brutal fighting sapped the strength of the Qing government, and the weakened Qing suffered a humiliating loss to Britain and France in the Arrow War (sometimes called the Second Opium War) and the resulting torching of the Imperial Summer Palace by British forces and the unchallenged concession of the Amur Delta (Outer Manchuria) to Russia. The most successful Qing army facing the Taiping forces was famously the Ever-Victorious-Army, a force consisting of a mix of Westerners living in China who volunteered and Chinese people, led by American Frederick Townsend Ward and then by the legendary British general Charles "Chinese" Gordon.
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Dec 26, 2013 01:11
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Patter Song posted:Yeah. China breaks V2 over its knee. This may be relevant for us as China has the Western Influences modifier and got a bundle of research points for crushing Taiping. I bet they'll Westernize by 1880-1885. At which point they will destroy the global economy and cause global unemployment as China builds thousands of factories and build everything cheaper than anyone else. Ah, so, real life but a century or so early.
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Dec 26, 2013 03:03
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Patter Song posted:The Kingdom of Heavenly Peace, or the Taiping, were a rebel state in southern China 1850-1864 that, in one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, attempted to overthrow the Manchu Qing Dynasty. Hong Xiuquan, its founder, failed the critical civil service examination and fell into a trance, upon coming to he proclaimed that the Christian God had communicated to him and annointed him, Hong, his second son and, by extension, the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Hong's followers ranged from those who actually believed his claim to those Han Chinese just eager for anyone to throw out the Manchu Qing. Over a decade of brutal fighting sapped the strength of the Qing government, and the weakened Qing suffered a humiliating loss to Britain and France in the Arrow War (sometimes called the Second Opium War) and the resulting torching of the Imperial Summer Palace by British forces and the unchallenged concession of the Amur Delta (Outer Manchuria) to Russia. The most successful Qing army facing the Taiping forces was famously the Ever-Victorious-Army, a force consisting of a mix of Westerners living in China who volunteered and Chinese people, led by American Frederick Townsend Ward and then by the legendary British general Charles "Chinese" Gordon. Also, it killed more people than World War I. Really, the Taiping should be what fucks over Qing China, not the Boxers (who, IIRC, were tacitly supported by Dowager Empress Cixi and never actually accomplished anything beyond getting their poo poo ruined by every European power plus the USA and Japan).
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Dec 26, 2013 03:06
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Patter Song posted:Yeah. China breaks V2 over its knee. This may be relevant for us as China has the Western Influences modifier and got a bundle of research points for crushing Taiping. I bet they'll Westernize by 1880-1885. At which point they will destroy the global economy and cause global unemployment as China builds thousands of factories and build everything cheaper than anyone else. Are you sure you're actually describing Victoria 2 here? 
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Dec 26, 2013 03:26
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You missed one type of rebel: Militant Socialists. Halfway between Jacobins and Red Guards, they'll implement a democratic government with a socialist party in charge.
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Dec 26, 2013 04:54
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BBJoey posted:You missed one type of rebel: Militant Socialists. Halfway between Jacobins and Red Guards, they'll implement a democratic government with a socialist party in charge. I don't think they're a thing in Vanilla, at least I didn't see them in the files. I did, however, miss the Apache and Sioux rebels, who will...kill 90% of the non-Native Americans in any province they occupy. I had no idea that was a thing and now I'm tempted to do a game where I invade the USA and escort a stack of Sioux on a grand tour around the country.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:10
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"From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever. Because I won." Sounds like some weird Sunset Invasion thing.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:48
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Rockopolis posted:"From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever. Because I won." I can't get over the image of 9,000 Sioux braves marching into New York City and...somehow killing 90% of the population. Like, do they all line up or something?
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Dec 26, 2013 05:54
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Manhattan Project, duh.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:57
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Patter Song posted:I can't get over the image of 9,000 Sioux braves marching into New York City and...somehow killing 90% of the population. Like, do they all line up or something? You mean like a few thousand conquistadors marching into Tenochtitlan and somehow killing 90% of the population? (I realize it's a totally different situation since there's no real way those Sioux could have a similarly unknown and virulent disease, but perhaps V2 has a highly developed karmic irony generator.)
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Dec 26, 2013 07:07
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Patter Song posted:I can't get over the image of 9,000 Sioux braves marching into New York City and...somehow killing 90% of the population. Like, do they all line up or something? I told you 'bout them Ghost Dances bro!
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Dec 26, 2013 08:34
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BBJoey posted:You missed one type of rebel: Militant Socialists. Halfway between Jacobins and Red Guards, they'll implement a democratic government with a socialist party in charge. They are from NNM/PDM.
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Dec 26, 2013 12:10
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Rockopolis posted:Manhattan Project, duh.  e: Now I'm imagining Sioux warriors perched atop the Empire State Building winging tomahawks down at people. BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 15:37
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Patter Song posted:I can't get over the image of 9,000 Sioux braves marching into New York City and...somehow killing 90% of the population. Like, do they all line up or something? Everyone lies down and dies from an overdose of tremendous irony. 
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Dec 26, 2013 16:50
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Killing 90% of the white people in America won't do anything because they'll just get replaced in a year by more white people from Europe.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:16
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Fister Roboto posted:Killing 90% of the white people in America won't do anything because they'll just get replaced in a year by more white people from Europe. Obviously the solution is to wipe out the newcomers too until both Europe and the US are completely depopulated. Maximum Hitler indeed.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:21
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So is the "Machine Politics" crime building Boss Tweed's Revenge?
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Dec 26, 2013 22:32
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Fister Roboto posted:Killing 90% of the white people in America won't do anything because they'll just get replaced in a year by more white people from Europe. It'd do a lot. Killing that many Yankees would drastically cut assimilation rates. It'd take quite a bit of time for them to become Yankees again (and even then, you'd get a south with pretty much no Afro-Americans/Dixies). If this somehow happened in the 1870s/1880s you'd end up with a USA that was like 40% Beifaren, 15% Japanese, 10% Nanfaren, 15% various Europeans, and 20% Yankee/Dixie, with a very, very slow assimilation on all of those Chinese folks.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:41
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Patter Song posted:It'd do a lot. Killing that many Yankees would drastically cut assimilation rates. It'd take quite a bit of time for them to become Yankees again (and even then, you'd get a south with pretty much no Afro-Americans/Dixies). If this somehow happened in the 1870s/1880s you'd end up with a USA that was like 40% Beifaren, 15% Japanese, 10% Nanfaren, 15% various Europeans, and 20% Yankee/Dixie, with a very, very slow assimilation on all of those Chinese folks. Are you sure? Because I just started a game from the A House Divided bookmark, released Canada, murdered nearly everybody in the USA, Canada and Mexico via homebrew decision (total population between the three roughly 150K) and just let it run, and the results seem very definite - in the USA in 1895, there is currently only one state where the majority of the population isn't one of the accepted cultures, and they currently have about ten times the population they started with. China hasn't civved yet, though. I'll wait until the end and see how it looks then. EDIT: Final score:  That was starting from roughly 100K population. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 00:09
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Gantolandon posted:They are from NNM/PDM. Oh, sorry  I've played for so long using NNM that I've half-forgotten what vanilla's like.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:06
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:I told you 'bout them Ghost Dances bro! Oh poo poo, Victoria simulates Shadowrun a century early!
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Dec 27, 2013 03:41
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Jimmy4400nav posted:Oh poo poo, Victoria simulates Shadowrun a century early! A Shadowrun Manager could be an interesting game. A spider-in-the-web kind of game, where your job isn't as much the runs themselves as sending goons to do the job while still having scissors at hand to cut them loose and some soap to wash your marks away from them. Or you could conquer the USAC (UCAS?) as a Mega-Corp and just be done with it. Bitches love Mega-Corps.
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Dec 27, 2013 07:24
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Update tomorrow, been having a bit of trouble writing this. Question: this update involves a major war (four Great Powers involved, lasts for several years and has combat on several continents). Do you want me to go into detail (i.e. "X launched a major push north, taking the critical port of Q, while Y's forces regrouped at Z") or should the war be executive summary-ized? EDIT: This isn't a vote. I'm asking you to give me advice.
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Dec 29, 2013 07:33
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Patter Song posted:Update tomorrow, been having a bit of trouble writing this. I'd say, unless combat in a small location, like a state, basically decided the war, a summary of the events would be fine.
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Dec 29, 2013 07:41
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Patter Song posted:Update tomorrow, been having a bit of trouble writing this. I'd prefer the former, as long as it reads compellingly, and not just a long list of clerical bullet points. Unless it'd take away from other parts of the update, which would require more knowledge to make that decision 
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Dec 29, 2013 07:43
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Depends on how much is going on with Bavaria. If not much has happened to own fair nation other than consolidation, might as well go into the details of foreign events, but avoid that if it would lead to an overly large update.
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Dec 29, 2013 07:44
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Vicky 2 warfare is pretty boring, you can catch the big strokes and pay less attention to the tactics of it and not miss much.
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Dec 29, 2013 09:27
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uPen posted:Vicky 2 warfare is pretty boring, you can catch the big strokes and pay less attention to the tactics of it and not miss much. Pretty much. I just ran through an entire game as the Papal State yesterday, and all major wars would have been boring as poo poo to actually detail (like that one time I did nothing but wait until Germany found a way into my country then massacred them with gas, or that one time I did nothing but let my puppets and allies run over Austria and let Africa fall to Britain). Keep the gist, because in Vicky, there is no such thing as "taking a critical port", it's just "sweeping across provinces until somebody gains the upper hand".
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Dec 29, 2013 12:37
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Yeah, the economics system has the potential to make warfare so much more interesting. The ability to cut off a country from basic goods causing massive uprisings and supply shortfalls for their army would be awesome, except the market system makes it so that you can have literally all of great britain blockaded and everyone will continue on like its nothing. Also, have forts actually be a pain to take.
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Dec 29, 2013 20:01
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Sorry, know the update should have come days ago. Had a few year-end parties I wasn't aware of. So...I kept hearing word about an EU4 mod named MEIOU and Taxes. I finally downloaded it and decided to check it out. It seems it did a wonderful job of recreating the world of 1356.  Timur's sacking of Chester and the Omani pirates of East Anglia are not usually reflected. It's an...interesting mod, if you don't mind that it slows the game to a crawl.
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Jan 1, 2014 19:45
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Patter Song posted:Sorry, know the update should have come days ago. Had a few year-end parties I wasn't aware of. Did you install the game in the game directory mod folder, instead of the user directory/documents mod folder? That's caused similar glitches for me. e.g.: For MEIOU itself, the only good thing I can say about it is that it let me create a vast Madagascarine empire (in EU3). Death and Taxes was a lot more fun, but unfortunately the EU4 version seems to draw more from the former than the latter. PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 20:22
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PleasingFungus posted:Did you install the game in the game directory mod folder, instead of the user directory/documents mod folder? That's caused similar glitches for me. Sengoku Universalis 
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Jan 1, 2014 22:54
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That map actually looks interesting and like it could be fun.
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Jan 1, 2014 23:50
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Disregard; I cannot read.
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Jan 2, 2014 00:40
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Poil posted:That map actually looks interesting and like it could be fun. It does, doesn't it? (Goon-made, though not by me.)
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Jan 2, 2014 01:42
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Chapter IV: There's Always A Greater Power...(1850-1858) Ah, Monsieur le Baron! Here to admire the Manet exhibition? We are always delighted to see citizens of your mighty kingdom in Munich. Since Manet established his Salon des Refusés here and all the works deemed too risqué for France wound up in Bavaria, more and more of your countrymen have made their way over to see us. Perhaps if the House of Orleans had had the foresight to be the patrons of radical new styles that the House of Wittelsbach had, I would be visiting you in Paris?    Oh, do not be annoyed! You know, numerous composers have read the works and seen the paintings coming out of Munich these days and swear that some sort of musical movement that would capture the spirit of Impressionism is the holy grail of music. Such a style still does not exist. Maybe the founder of that musical style will be Parisian...though I rather think not, given the funding His Majesty Maximilian has put behind the Munich orchestra and the regular efforts to "discover" young composers. It's no exaggeration to say that right now that the King has men patrolling the streets of Munich prepared to offer fame and glory to any half-decent street musician with a novel twist to his work. Ah, but your companion is a Russian, and a Count at that! And I know you, Monsieur le Baron, wouldn't be interested in art if your massive Crédit Mobilier account didn't permit you to buy it en masse. Well, then, if you wish to talk business and diplomacy, let us! After coffee with this tedious American in Munich named Walt Whitman (encouraging us to take this horribly dull poetry collection named Leaves of Grass...well, it wouldn't do any good to have the latest and greatest published anywhere other than Munich), I am in the mood for talk of business and the affairs of the day! You say it has been eight years since you've visited Munich? Well, we can catch you up quite quickly. Let's start with the factories.    Ah, but we were in debt in those days. Not like now...today we have debt because we are confident enough to make investments based on next month's profits. Then we were in debt because we were participating in public-private ventures by launching furniture factories and lumber mills a tenth at a time. His Imperial Majesty the Tsar would understand about a lazy industrial class that does little by itself and requires state subsidies, but we aren't as rich as Russia, so it's more of a hardship on us. By the way, Monsieur le Baron, let me assure you every penny we have taken from Crédit Mobilier will be repaid with interest.   Even before we became one of the world's great powers, we discovered that Austria simply didn't have the ability to evade our tariffs any more, and for the first time our barriers were bringing in significant amounts of revenue.  Our King, a bleeding-heart, announced that he would never fire on people in the streets protesting for their rights, but events in the new Kingdom of Argentina have led him to question the wisdom of that policy.      The United States of America continued its relentless push south. As you may have heard, the Emperor Maximilian was shot almost immediately upon reaching the New World. Odd story, that. When he arrived, the chamber was rabidly pro-monarchy, as if he had wandered into Russia (no offense, my friend! We hold our Majesty's friend the Tsar in the highest regard here). Describing this fanatical pro-clerical, pro-aristocratic, pro-monarchical chamber as the cámara intocable, Maximilian dissolved it and hoped for a more rational government. The aristocratic faction in Mexico executed him and appointed one of their own as Emperor in his place.  Affairs in the east were of equal interest. My dear Count, is it true that His Imperial Majesty intends to build a railway all the way out to Vladivostok? What a project! I am in awe of how the Tsar managed to negotiate such a vast stretch of land from Beijing without firing a shot.   Our military slowly strengthened, but our penury prevented us from building more than the most basic fortresses. By the way, Monsieur le Baron, let me assure you that even though Kaiserslauten borders Alsace, our fortifications are solely aimed north, in fear of the beast of Berlin. I know you understand.  The question, you might remember, was whether Spain or the Turks would lose their seat at the Concert of Europe to make way for the Bavarians. The years-long waiting period was a joke in Munich...Everyone agreed that Bavaria was the country of tomorrow, but none could agree on who the country of yesterday was. The debate went on until events conspired to manufacture an answer that pleased both those in Madrid and Constantinople, even though it left a few dismayed faces in Vienna.  Ah ha! But you smile, my dear Baron, and your grin is irrepressible, Count! I hear you led the Tsar's men in a cavalry charge in Galicia in the late war? Please do correct me if my account of the war is incorrect. As I understand it, an official in Pondicherry uncovered documents suggesting that the late Tipu Sultan willed his kingdom to France on his deathbed, a vow rendered moot by Seringapatam a half-century ago. Looking to this document, the French foreign ministry plotted an ambitious scheme to seize one of the three presidencies of the British East India Company, and with Moscow's participation, launched the largest war since 1815.      Austria simply wasn't prepared for an assault by Italians, Swiss, and Frenchmen on the one side and Russians on the other.  Us? Strict neutrality...though, of course, we didn't give the Austrians access.  Wars elsewhere were irrelevant.   You were on the first wave into Dover? An audacious scheme indeed, my dear Baron! Without their little stream, the British are helpless against continental army discipline.     All were helpless in the face of your arms. It was quite inspiring. Our own troops learned a thing or two from studying the Dutch siege of London.  Of course, driving the Austrians out of Milan has been a desired goal by every lover of Verdi this century. The Kingdom of Lombardy is a rather pitiful prospect, to be sure, but the world is such a more...Romantic place now that Austrian soldiers no longer eat at the cafes of Milan.    We spent the war modernizing our economy and our military. You laugh...you know we failed, but that's to get ahead of the story! At the time no one could have anticipated Berlin's perfidy.     Who would have guessed before the war that Britain and Austria were such paper tigers?  As you know, we pay no heed of election returns here.   It was neither Spain nor the Turks that were kicked out of Prince von Metternich's club, it was Metternich's own nation!  It was at that time that we realized that a full-fledged modernization of our economy and our diplomatic corps was in order if we would be able to lead a united South Germany. No, cease your laughter. The ambition will happen someday.    My dear Count, are the rumors that a young American named Seward is sounding you out about buying you out in the Pacific? If so, do not take the offer...it would be foolhardy in the extreme to waste such beautiful timber country.  The Americas never cease their wars, do they?  The most prestigious club in the world.  No one can disagree with Swiss engineering.         Our technology continued to develop.  As did our industry.  Debtor's prisons ended.   As did our diplomatic prowess, though not without wreaking havoc on our economy. The sudden influx of cheap Austrian industrial goods threatened Bavarian bankruptcy, leading many to anticipate the day when Austria was too big to hold onto again.  Pride goeth before the fall and so forth.   It was utterly impossible that we win this war on our own, though we certainly attempted to.  Our army performed adequately.  Our conscripts...didn't.    We surrendered, offering domination of all of south Germany to Berlin. Austria rebelled against the peace deal, rejecting domination by Berlin, and we secretly began attempting to bring them back into our sphere, while building up our army to prevent such a humiliation from occurring again. These were the darkest days of Bavaria, and I'm not afraid to tell you gentlemen that we had no idea what to do next. Our redemption was, of course, that the Beast of Berlin was also subject to pride coming before the fall.   Britain released New Zealand and Johore, we scoured our poorest for wanted criminals.   Too late, we discovered the miracle of breech-loaded rifles and set out to learn new governing techniques.     The successors of the Mexican Habsburgs are truly clueless.   The successors to Muhammad Ali Pasha are truly clueless.    Some say that Bavaria should play the colonial game, His Majesty reminds them of our landlocked nature and that others play the colonial game far better.  Have you heard about these nuts yet? I'm sure they're present in your country too.  Railroads are nice. Capitalists with the money to build railroads on their own without state investment would be nicer.  Or Capitalists who know that expanding successful factories rather than building Cement Plants everywhere is a winning strategy.  Isn't Cato Street in London?  Now we come to recent events. You all recall...Romanians demanded a separate state in Transylvania. Upon people pointing out that they had not one but two states already, they demanded one all the more. We couldn't not defend our protected friends in Vienna, and Berlin arrogantly thought that it could force a free puppet Romania and humiliate us even more.  Little did Berlin realize their one flaw: everyone hates a North German.   Especially the Tsar. Rather than turn to Paris, we chose to make an offer to London to get them on our side. Knowing your country, Monsieur le Baron, was already well-disposed to us, we figured that gaining the British would help seal the isolation of Berlin. It worked like a charm.  King Maximilian had no stomach for war and took the peace offer. In retrospect we should have invaded. Nevertheless, we have cemented the beginnings of an important pact. Every other great power loathes the North Germans, and they are all quite fond of us.  Austria is about to retake its seat as a Great Power, but Bavarian greatness has just begun. With your people's help, my dear Baron, and your Tsar's might, my dear Count, I have no fear that the day will come when Berlin will not bully Munich, but the two shall be equals, heads of two great confederations. Bavaria   The world, 1858 
Patter Song fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 23:08
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I never really appreciated before how small Bavaria is compared to Prussia and Austria, I guess I usually think of those independent South German states as a single block. You seem to be doing pretty well though, sphering Austria was a good move, you definitely need to do that again.
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Jan 2, 2014 23:32
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RabidWeasel posted:I never really appreciated before how small Bavaria is compared to Prussia and Austria, I guess I usually think of those independent South German states as a single block. Austria is going to be a great power again in a few months so there's not much point unless he can form the SGF as soon as this crisis resolves. e: Krakow is still alive. 
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Jan 2, 2014 23:51
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