Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«26 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

Hi, I'm Patter Song. Welcome to Let's Play Victoria II: Heart of Darkness. Victoria II was released in 2010 as the successor of Paradox's 2003 Victoria title, and on release was noted both for a gorgeous map and graphic interface and confusing, counterintuitive, and flat-out bizarre interpretation of the events of the 19th century. Two expansions, 2012's A House Divided and 2013's Heart of Darkness, have come a long way in making Victoria II into a far superior game, though one that still has a number of baffling idiosyncrasies and counterintuitive mechanics.

Aren't you that guy that did the Steppe Wolfe LP? And the World Stage one?

Yes. I let's played the Steppe Wolfe mod of Europa Universalis III almost exactly a year ago, and this past April I used that same thread to look at the leaked demo of ubik's masterpiece Magna Mundi World Stage. The thread wasn't archived, but those with archives can still read over it here.

Weren't there other LPs of Victoria II?

Kersch, as always, did a splendid job with How the Hell do We Play Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness? Our own in-house Paradox dev Wiz is currently working his way through the Victoria II section of his epic multi-year thread Islam Is The Light, the tale of the Kingdom of Azerbaijan Anatolian Republic and its struggles with tolerance and ethnic strife.

So what do you bring to the table?

For some crazy reason, I love this game and have clocked more hours in it than any other Paradox game. While no one truly understands some parts of the guts of Victoria II, not even the people that developed it, I think the game opens up possibilities for entertaining romps.

Steppe Wolfe levels of entertaining?

Admittedly, I have not yet seen Estonia raise a million man army and fight off the entire planet singlehandedly. Yet.

V2 has a lot of things that aren't immediately obvious, and though it does give you all the tools necessary to understand what is going on, it will not explain how to use them. If you're suddenly transitioning from being absurdly wealthy to the verge of bankruptcy, there is likely an explanation, and it probably has something to do with something halfway around the world that you otherwise would have no interest in.

So how are you going to tell this story?

First off, I will not savescum in any way, what happens is what happens. If you guys pick a weak country on my list of possibilities (see below) and we get annexed, that's it. Depending on how I feel we may or may not go back and start from the beginning. However, to help myself understand what is going on and by extension, help you guys, I will be periodically saving and quitting and reloading into the game as various AI countries to get an idea of how their economic/military/political situation is shaping up. This will mostly be done for state of the world updates and could be viewed as cheating, but I view it as crucial to understanding how the world works.

So who are we going to be?

Unlike Europa Universalis IV, where you can pick any start date between November 11th, 1444 and January 1st, 1821, this game gives you two scenarios: January 1st, 1836 and July 1st, 1861. We will be using the first of the two bookmarks. The game ends in 1936, exactly 100 years after it starts.

A country's status is measured by an index of three numbers: your Prestige, your Industry, and your Military. None of these numbers work exactly as you'd expect, but we'll get into that. The top 8 civilized countries in terms of score are Great Powers, with the ability to influence other nations. The second 8 are Secondary Powers, with the power to colonize. At the bottom are uncivilized nations, who need to Westernize to start truly playing the game.

There is something called the buying order, which determines your position in the global market. It is, simply, highest civilized nation->lowest civilized nation->highest uncivilized nation->lowest uncivilized nation. The lower down on the food chain you are, the harder time you'll have buying things as people don't sell to people low on the buying order no matter how much cash they have unless they still have goods left over from those higher on the chain.

Options presented in order from Easiest to Hardest. These are all some of my favorite V2 countries, I'm familiar with good strategies for all of them and will try to balance gameplay and story to present a compelling narrative and accomplish personal/group goals rather than ruthlessly powergame. I'm the sort of person who'd rather wreck Spain by forcing them to release the Philippines than try to wreck Spain by taking away Catalonia, if that makes sense. Don't expect us to take...too much land that has no accepted/primary culture pops. The weaker the state you pick, the more aggressive I'll have to be to build us into a Great Power.

EASY:

A. Austria



Historically, the Habsburg realms started off 1836 "ruled" by the mentally incompetent Emperor Ferdinand I and his ruthless, Machiavellian strategist Prince Klemens von Metternich. Metternich was dedicated to preserving the peace in Europe by crushing liberalism and preserving a Concert system where the great powers would gather to discuss and peacefully sort out their differences. The rise of nationalism and demands for political reforms would bring Austria to crisis again and again, however, and as soon as 1848-49 Austria nearly lost its Italian gains from the Napoleonic Wars and the entire Hungarian half of its Empire and Ferdinand and Metternich was forced to abdicate. Let's see if we can do better.

Pros:

Can form mega-Germany. (Depending on the circumstances, I'd prefer not to break the game in half by doing that)
Has some of the best natural resources in the game.
Large starting population.
Starts off as a Great Power.
Can form Austria-Hungary as a consolation prize if Prussia forms Germany, giving Hungarian as an Accepted Culture and making the ethnic dynamic far simpler.

Cons:

Prussia has ridiculous super-soldiers and will be coming after you.
At some point if the Italians get their act together they'll hate you, likely align with Prussia, and put you in a very precarious situation.
Our vast horde of wrong-culture illiterate peasants in the Hungarian hinterland give us a very low starting literacy.

Bavaria



Bavaria gained a nice promotion to royal status in the aftermath of the Napoleonic wars. We are ruled by mad King Ludwig, who loves building pretty fairy-tale castles and funding lavish Wagnerian operas at taxpayer expense while he parties with Irish courtesan Elisa Gilbert exotic Spanish dancer Lola Montez the Countess of Landsfield, a respectable German noblewoman. Bavaria is in the tricky position of being the strongest German minor...neither Prussia nor Austria wants to see us rise to have Munich rival Berlin and Vienna as a center of German politics, but our cultural sway is so great that we might achieve this dream on the back of our beautiful castles and operas at Bayreuth that people come the continent over to see. Play on, Herr Wagner!

Pros:

Ridiculous prestige advantages and can easily bubble into Great Power status.
Can form a South German Federation to annex Baden and Wurtemburg and become a far more powerful state that can go toe-to-toe with Prussia and Austria.
One of the most literate populations in the world.

Cons:

Neither Austria nor Prussia are interested in you becoming too big for your britches...both will try to smack you down.
If Prussia forms North German Federation, you are severely limited in your options.
No ports to colonize from unless you take some from Austria or Form Germany.

MEDIUM:

C. Mexico



Mexico achieved independence from Spain in 1821, but after years of turmoil the short-lived First Mexican Empire collapsed and the southern parts of it formed the similarly short-lived United States of Central America. Mexico established a republican constitution in 1824 but had problems with its gigantic landmass, much of which was still populated heavily by Natives, some of which were quite hostile to their mostly-theoretical Mexican government. Recently we fell under the rule of the strong-armed dicator Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 time president of Mexico. Santa Anna is a somewhat incompetent buffoon who nevertheless sees himself as the Napoleon of the West. Recently, a group of Anglo settlers in our northern province of Tejas have rebelled, citing opposition to our state Catholic Church and prohibition of slavery. The Yanquis are watching developments in Texas quite closely, and we will have to move carefully.

Pros:

Gigantic country with natural resources...if we keep Texas it'll have oil in the late game.
Can invite Maximilian von Habsburg to take the throne as Emperor of Mexico. Theoretically. I'm not sure this is ever a good decision. In fact, this doesn't belong in the pro column.
Theoretically, can be a strong colonial power in Africa.


Cons:

"Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!" -Porfirio Diaz
Deeply reactionary government leads to low immigration with little chance of reform except through a violent rebellion.
Seriously, our northern neighbor hungers for our land. Keep that in mind at all times.

D. Colombia



The first-born of the Latin American revolutionary republics, Colombia is not the success story it was a few years ago. In 1830, our founder Simon Bolivar's dream of a united state in northern Latin America was shattered as Ecuador and Venezuela seceded from Gran Colombia. On our own, we have plentiful fruit and coffee, both of which are solid exports, but little in the way of hard industrial goods (our neighbor Venezuela will get oil at the end of the game).

Pros:

Can reform Gran Colombia and become a serious contender. This is very difficult.
If we become a Great Power we can build and own the Panama Canal. No Yanqui ownership of this critical passage!

Cons:

Great Britain usually takes Venezuela under its wing, making it difficult to take.
Brazil is a raging jerk.
With a limited population, bloody wars can utterly wreck a country in this region. Even victory can be brutally costly.
Like Mexico, we're going to need a violent revolution to get an immigration-friendly regime in power.

HARD:

E. Johore:



The loss of much of the Malay coast to the Dutch, including the major ports of Malacca and Singapore, was not a pleasant experience for Johore, and the transitioning of those ports from the Dutch to the British did little to change matters. Our rump state is incredibly wealthy, even more so than the other Malay states, but our wealth attracts covetous eyes from colonial oppressors in Amsterdam and London. Can we wiggle through to reclaim our birthright and lead a union of the Malays to a major contender power on the world stage?

Pros:

More money than you can ever spend. Early game precious metal and tropical wood, late game rubber. Too bad we're so far down on the buying order that no one will sell us anything and we have to starve on our piles of gold.
Easy targets with lots of our primary culture abound...if we can ever buy enough parts to build some boats.

Cons:

Tiny population that's usually starving and shrinking leads to a very small military and the need to be opportunistic.
Uncivilized, have to Westernize.
If Britain or the Dutch decide to come after us in the early game, it's probably over.

F. Nejd



In the 18th century, an alliance between the new Wahhabi sect and the Sa'ud family created a powerful short-lived First Saudi State that conquered the Hedjaz and was only beaten back by Ottoman intervention. The Saudi family has had their eyes on that sacred strip of desert for generations and are ready to make another move and create a new state to unite all the Arabs, but neither the Ottomans nor the Europeans wish to see that happen.

Pros:

Forming Arabia is easy and gives you cores on pretty much anything you'd expect it to, from Morocco to Iraq (except the Libyan Coastline for some reason)
Late game oil.

Cons:

Ottomans really don't want you getting Hedjaz.
Uncivilized, have to Westernize.
Very low population.
Spain has an obsession with getting a colonial empire in Arabia. Expect the Spanish Inquisition.

INSANE:

G. Zulu

Our great founder Shaka Zulu passed away less than a decade ago, but his legacy produced a powerful, militaristic African kingdom ready to defend against the interlopers. Weak Boer states are our neighbors, but also powerful British settlements on the Cape and Portuguese settlements in Mozambique, either of which could eye our kingdom. War is coming.



Pros:

Highly militarized society.
Weak prey in Oranje and Transvaal.
Gold in Transvaal.

Cons:

Uncivilized, need to Westernize.
Small population means that military losses, even from attrition, are hard to replace and even a successful campaign can leave us dangerously undermanned.
Portugal and Britain both want us dead.

LITERACY:

A. Austria. 16.1%
B. Bavaria. 70.0%(!)
C. Mexico. 12.4%
D. Colombia. 9.0%
E. Johore. 2.0%
F. Nejd. 1.0%(!)
G. Zulu. 5.3%

I'll leave voting open until tomorrow. I realize that seven choices is a lot, but I feel that the entire range of V2 is present in these seven. Feel free to ask questions! I look forward to getting started. Table of Content will be added below in this post once the game starts.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

Chapter I: Humble Beginnings: 1836
Chapter II: The Reunited Kingdom of the Netherlands: 1836-1842
Chapter III: Oligarchy and Its Discontents: 1842-1850
Chapter IV: There's Always A Greater Power: 1850-1858
Chapter V: A Sad State of Affairs: 1858-1869
Chapter VI: The South German Federation 1869-1875
Chapter VII: The Great Alpine War 1875-1883
Chapter VIII: The Follies of War 1883-1887
Chapter IX: Peace, Bread, Work, and Votes 1887-1895
Chapter X: Socialism, Feminism, and Imperialism? 1895-1900
Chapter XI: Also Sprach Zarathustra: 1900-1906
Chapter XII: The Great War 1906-1914
Chapter XIII: The Great War II: Russia's Revenge 1914-1916
Chapter XIV: A Five Year Truce (1916-1921)
Chapter XV: The War to End All Wars...? (1921-1926)
Chapter XVI: Life Among the Bohemians (1926-1931)

Patter Song fucked around with this message at Apr 13, 2014 around 04:14

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010


I vote Johore, and if I'm allowed a backup, Austria, as I'm very interested in a Johore game but also think Austria is a good way to show off Victoria 2.

Whatever happened to Iron Cross?!

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

Beamed posted:

I vote Johore, and if I'm allowed a backup, Austria, as I'm very interested in a Johore game but also think Austria is a good way to show off Victoria 2.

Whatever happened to Iron Cross?!

Iron Cross doesn't really agree with my computer. Or with me.

Hutter
Feb 16, 2011

It's been giving me nightmares.


Bavaria, show the prussians what-for! Form Great German and release the Hungarians and the rest of the Balkans if you can. Secondary vote if allowed is Austria, aiming for the same I guess.

Rogue0071
Dec 8, 2009

Grey Hunter's next target.

Johore and also force release India at the start of the game, so that everyone starves to death.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

The magic is in the beard.


As a Bavarian, I feel almost forced to pick them, so I might as well do that.

Are you going to be running any mods? I feel the New Nations Mod is something that only adds to the experience and doesn't really hurt anything.

And as an aside in terms of mods (and while I might regret bringing this up), if we end up playing as Austria, I feel it would be great if we could be using the mod made by some of the lads over at 4chan's grand strategy general thread (just called the Minimod) - amongst other neat things, it adds a wonderful event chain relating to the troubles with the Hungarians and it makes playing as Austria a lot more challenging. However, it has a few decisions that are a bit controversial (which is why the mod won't be seen on the Paradox forums - genocide ahoy!), and it's just a suggestion for something I believe would make it more interesting.

EDIT: Also, the Minimod boosts fascists and communists to give them more of a shot than the vanilla game does, which might make for a more interesting world.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

Not one of the more complicated characters I've ever role-played over the years, honestly, but fun nevertheless.

Mexico, though I'd prefer the Austria-Hungary route to the German doomblob.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004


The Zulu will unify Africa, obviously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_hS_DKab8I

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

B is for Bavaria

I'm not sure I've seen a Vicky2 LP that was actually set in Europe.

RowansWarden
Jun 3, 2013


I think I'd like to see a good playthrough of Bavaria. It'll make a nice challenge at first but allow us to move into a position of real world power.

Stalingrad
Feb 5, 2011



Zulu

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008



Bavaria, should be a nice mix of challenging and interesting.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

All I wanted to do was tell women how to be feminists and compliment them on their great tits.

Then those self righteous shits called me white >:|

Now all I can hope is that this picture of a smiling xbox with awesome tits will console me.


Johore. Asia is for some reason way under-represented in games and could do with some love and this applies doubly to SE-Asia.

Die Bayere könn seine hösle bronsa for all I care.

Rumda
Nov 3, 2009

*bip*


Zulu

But seriously Bavaria

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

What?


Johore. I don't think there's been a Paradox LP set in Southeast Asia.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004


I think there was a EU3 LP in Southeast Asia but yeah, it's not really common.

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


Zulu because how do you people not want to reenact this?

http://youtu.be/ODM1RJe4FvQ

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

TheMcD posted:


Are you going to be running any mods? I feel the New Nations Mod is something that only adds to the experience and doesn't really hurt anything.

And as an aside in terms of mods (and while I might regret bringing this up), if we end up playing as Austria, I feel it would be great if we could be using the mod made by some of the lads over at 4chan's grand strategy general thread (just called the Minimod) - amongst other neat things, it adds a wonderful event chain relating to the troubles with the Hungarians and it makes playing as Austria a lot more challenging. However, it has a few decisions that are a bit controversial (which is why the mod won't be seen on the Paradox forums - genocide ahoy!), and it's just a suggestion for something I believe would make it more interesting.

EDIT: Also, the Minimod boosts fascists and communists to give them more of a shot than the vanilla game does, which might make for a more interesting world.

No mods, at least for the first runthrough. (This statement does not promise a second runthrough, but it leaves the door open)


Rumda posted:

Zulu

But seriously Bavaria

I'm going to take this as an option to let me pick which of those you want to vote for. Just so you know.

Sybot
Nov 8, 2009


For reasons I'm not sure of myself, Victoria 2 is my favourite Paradox game. Maybe I just like watching numbers tick up slowly.

Voting for Johore. There's a distinct lack of SE Asian action in general in Paradox games so this'll be nice to see. Of the other popular choices, Bavaria would probably end up as a standard German steamroller once we'd gotten out of the initial crisis of having to deal with Prussia/Austria, while Zulu would be a steamroller in the other direction the moment a European looked at us funny.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

IF U CN RD THS, SCK M FCKNG CCK NTL T SPRTS LL VR R FC

Bavaria / Colombia

Grizzwold
Jan 27, 2012


Colombia, mostly because I like the idea of reforming Gran Colombia, but have never been able to do it myself. Brazil is a huge jerk.

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006


1st Pick: Bavaria
Backup: Mexico

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

The Corgiest Teddybear



Gonna have to go with Colombia or Mexico. Don't usually see new world LPs, and I think bringing either to world power status would be entertaining.

AdventFalls
Oct 17, 2012

When do we learn head explosions?

The Zulu demand your earth, water, and sanity.

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Zulu Because its the biggest gently caress you to the UK thats available.

Note that loving over the UK is the main objective of this game regardless of what everyone says.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

Adding this info, will put it into the OP, let me know if there's anything else you want to know about the countries.

LITERACY:

A. Austria. 16.1%
B. Bavaria. 70.0%(!)
C. Mexico. 12.4%
D. Colombia. 9.0%
E. Johore. 2.0%
F. Nejd. 1.0%(!)
G. Zulu. 5.3%

Some of V2's literacy rates are a bit eyebrow-raising, like Afghanistan's 18.3% literacy at start, which is shockingly high for its region.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012


Mexico! Kick the asses of Texas and your neighbor to the north and overturn the course of history!

JakeyZydrate
Dec 26, 2012


As a Brit I really want to see some Zulu action going on, Zulus with guns would change the movie completely.
Besides, loving over the UK is the goal of the game even as the UK.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



I'll vote for Johore, but I'd be fine with Mexico, Colombia or Zulu too.

Dikkfor
Feb 3, 2010


ZULU

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

The few witnesses would report seeing only a boy with amazing wings, gently falling from the day's sky.

No one ever saw him again.


Disappointing few votes for Colombia. Latin American games usually end up taking big countries like Brazil, I'd very much like to see an LP of a low-rank Latin American state in that region.

Dickensian Aspect
Mar 18, 2009

This place has changed a lot.

Definitely Johore; that's an interesting area and you have compelling, achievable goals early on. It's a little less cramped than Zulu and more complicated than Mexico's situation.

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

???


Voting for Zulu, or Johore as a backup.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012



quote:

Cons:

"Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!" -Porfirio Diaz
Deeply reactionary government leads to low immigration with little chance of reform except through a violent rebellion.
Seriously, our northern neighbor hungers for our land. Keep that in mind at all times.

"Haha, gently caress you" events.

I tried to play as Mexico, but it was always an exercise of futility, especially in NNM. For the exact reason I would like to see it succeed, possibly also knocking the US off the Great Power list.

The only country that played worse than Mexico without tapping into uncivs was definitely Greece. Not because of laughable literacy, pitiful military and RGOs plentiful only in fruits, goats and fish, but also because their mid-game conservative party is Lessez-Faire instead of Interventionist. The switch happens suddenly, there is no way to prevent it and is barely detectable - you only see that something happens when everything is bankrupting around you.

quote:

Some of V2's literacy rates are a bit eyebrow-raising, like Afghanistan's 18.3% literacy at start, which is shockingly high for its region.

Balance, mostly. It doesn't always make sense, but it keeps Consciousness and Reform Demand down for nations that historically were conservative. Otherwise we would see Austria-Hungary or Russia become constitutional monarchies in no time, which already tends to happen by the end of 19th century.

Gantolandon fucked around with this message at Dec 16, 2013 around 22:55

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



That sure sounds like Greece alright.

Aren't the Ottoman fairly aggressive towards them too?

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

The magic is in the beard.


Poil posted:

That sure sounds like Greece alright.

Aren't the Ottoman fairly aggressive towards them too?

Not necessarily, it's just that the new crisis system ends up loving Greece over fairly often (UK backs Greece over Thessalia, war breaks out, Ottomans poo poo all over Greece while the Brits keep calm and carry on). The AI is still pretty wonky at times.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



We'll get right on that after tea old chap.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012



TheMcD posted:

Not necessarily, it's just that the new crisis system ends up loving Greece over fairly often (UK backs Greece over Thessalia, war breaks out, Ottomans poo poo all over Greece while the Brits keep calm and carry on). The AI is still pretty wonky at times.

There is one thing worse than being caught into a war over Thessalia while playing Greece. You could actually receive Thessalia, because a Great Power backing up OE happened to be a pussy. You may as well already give it up at the beginning of the first war, not worth being attacked over it every five years.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

Perhaps if I do a second round of this in this thread (V2 is not that long a game) the voting round would be between releasing/playing as a country on day 1 and put fan-favorites like Catalonia, Ireland, Bohemia, Iraq, Jan Mayen, Cherokee, and Ukraine into the mix.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

The magic is in the beard.


Patter Song posted:

Perhaps if I do a second round of this in this thread (V2 is not that long a game) the voting round would be between releasing/playing as a country on day 1 and put fan-favorites like Catalonia, Ireland, Bohemia, Iraq, Jan Mayen, Cherokee, and Ukraine into the mix.

Gotta be Iraq. You can form loving Babylon, how is that not the best thing ever?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«26 »