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Chinese Tony Danza posted:Okay, I'm legitimately not looking to start poo poo or anything, but I have to ask if you're serious. Personally, I consider E2M4 to be the worst map of all official Doom maps. It's just so ugly and nonsensical that I feel like it's some newbie 1994 PWAD somebody hacked into my copy of Ultimate Doom. Like, can you explain what you find good about it? I'm not going to tell you you're stupid and wrong or anything, but I am definitely curious as to what you see in it that I don't. Well that's just like, your opinion man.  Hah, I don't know, I guess we just have different tastes. It is kinda ugly, but... I just like the feel of it? It feels really exploratory, and there's some cool stuff but its all super, super intuitive, there's like that nuclear reactor room, there's the weird mountain stair thing, good variety of monsters and rooms and different textures and stuff.... man I don't know... VVV Hey it worked for Valve! Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 07:35
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E2M4 just feels like it keeps loving going and it's surprisingly linear for a level that at several points feels like it's more open.
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Jan 3, 2014 07:36
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It's hard for me to hate on any map in Episode 2 when Episode 3 has Limbo AND Mt Erebus
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Jan 3, 2014 07:49
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Zaphod42 posted:Also you have to edit it in a slightly hackish manner, there's no 3D GZDoom Doom Builder AFAIK Zaphod42 posted:It also has a software renderer, but it doesn't support 3D room-on-room!
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Jan 3, 2014 11:11
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I have a confession to make, I have just recently played Quake for the first time. I had it when it came out but because the CD was constantly being passed between friends meant there was no soundtrack I just played a little, got bored and just didn't play it again. I played Quake 3 when it came out and loved it so I do actually like Quake. I stumbled onto this thread last night for some reason, fate perhaps, and added darkplaces and music!. Holy poo poo Quake is so much fun. I'm actually wearing headphones with the sound cranked all the way up and going back through levels to get a better time and more secrets and it was the last thing I played last night and this morning I turned my machine on and started playing straight away. I just got so pissed at myself for missing a kill that I swear I was in the mid-90's for a moment. I knew I bought the Quake pack on steam a while ago for a reason and after this I have the Duke Nukem Megaton Edition to play  . I do have a question because today is the last day of the steam sale, do I pick up the Doom 3 BFG Edition? It has Doom I & II and I will admit I didn't play them much, I was more of a Wolfenstein guy back then and feel like I've missed out.Awesome thread and once again, I loving LOVE QUAKE
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Jan 3, 2014 12:19
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Poison Jam posted:I do have a question because today is the last day of the steam sale, do I pick up the Doom 3 BFG Edition? It has Doom I & II and I will admit I didn't play them much, I was more of a Wolfenstein guy back then and feel like I've missed out. It's probably better to just grab Doom 1 and 2 by themselves, since the versions included with the BFG edition are censored, and I am pretty sure you do not get Final Doom or the Master Levels with it.
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Jan 3, 2014 13:59
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Zaphod42 posted:Well that's just like, your opinion man.
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Jan 3, 2014 15:37
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Cat Mattress posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czXX-YRLFhA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UbkBwQCho Oh poo poo, that's PERFECT. Like, exactly what you want. Awesome. Cat Mattress posted:Yes it does now. (As long as they aren't sloped.) ZDCMP2 was made for software-rendered ZDoom, and it features plenty of 3D floors. I was talking about GzDoom, not ZDoom. Even then maybe it does, but then they need to update their info then, the website still says that software renderer only supports 2D. Evil Sagan posted:It's hard for me to hate on any map in Episode 2 when Episode 3 has Limbo AND Mt Erebus I like Erebus? So I guess I just have really unpopular taste in Doom levels.  No feelings for Limbo though.
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 16:43
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Zero Star posted:I thought the whole point of the clash of styles in Episode 2 was that it was supposed to represent the Deimos base being slowly taken over and corrupted by Hell. Yep, exactly. Deimos base got sucked into hell and is starting to be hell-terraformed (hadeformed?), and then of course episode 3 is straight up hell's surface.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:30
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Zaphod42 posted:I was talking about GzDoom, not ZDoom. Same thing. GZDoom is kept in sync with ZDoom. However, Graf Zahl has lost his FTP password or something and cannot update his website anymore. The last two official GZDoom releases have been kept exclusively on the DRD Team forum because of that.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:53
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Install Windows posted:Yep, exactly. Deimos base got sucked into hell and is starting to be hell-terraformed (hadeformed?), and then of course episode 3 is straight up hell's surface. I still love that twist in the first episode's ending. The demons finally gank Doomguy with a teleporter ambush; unfortunately he's such an crazy murderous bastard that he lands in Deimos while it is being absorbed into Hell, giving him an arsenal and a way into the heart of the invasion. Talk about plans backfiring.
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Jan 3, 2014 18:11
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Poison Jam posted:I have a confession to make, I have just recently played Quake for the first time. I had it when it came out but because the CD was constantly being passed between friends meant there was no soundtrack I just played a little, got bored and just didn't play it again. I played Quake 3 when it came out and loved it so I do actually like Quake. I stumbled onto this thread last night for some reason, fate perhaps, and added darkplaces and music!. Holy poo poo Quake is so much fun. I'm actually wearing headphones with the sound cranked all the way up and going back through levels to get a better time and more secrets and it was the last thing I played last night and this morning I turned my machine on and started playing straight away. I just got so pissed at myself for missing a kill that I swear I was in the mid-90's for a moment. I knew I bought the Quake pack on steam a while ago for a reason and after this I have the Duke Nukem Megaton Edition to play Yay for Quake! Here, have 10 excellent custom releases Quake fans should play: [The Marcher Fortress] [Insomnia] [The Final Threat] [Honey] [Antediluvian] [Day of the Lords] [Adamantine Cruelty] [The Horde of Zendar] [And All That Could Have Been] [Homecoming] I tried to pick a variety of themes, and things that aren't part of Quake mods like Zerstörer or Quoth. At least play that first one and see how much prettier custom maps can be for Quake.
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Jan 3, 2014 23:25
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Normally, hitting the weapon slot 1 key busts out the chainsaw. You have to hit it again to if you want to put up your dukes. Is there any way to change this behavior to prioritize the fists, but only if you already picked up a Berserk pack?
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Jan 4, 2014 01:54
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No, don't pick up the chainsaw.
koren fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 02:38
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Korendian Leader posted:No, don't pick up the chainsaw. But it's so fun to dice up cacos with it! 
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Jan 4, 2014 03:30
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Has anyone else tried using OBLIGE to generate maps for Ultimate DooM and DooM II (and Freedoom, since it comes with some pretty half-assed maps)? The maps are surprisingly not terrible, and actually seem pretty fun to play, especially since you can tell it what you want in your maps.
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Jan 4, 2014 09:59
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Jakcson posted:Has anyone else tried using OBLIGE to generate maps for Ultimate DooM and DooM II (and Freedoom, since it comes with some pretty half-assed maps)? I have, though it's been a while. I enjoyed playing around with it, you can get some suprisingly solid maps (and a bunch that look almost exactly the same).
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Jan 4, 2014 10:09
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Sir Lemming posted:On another topic, I was starting to go through CyRaptor's 20th Anniversary Doom stream thing, but the videos seem to have disappeared. Is there a 1-week limit or something? I knew Twitch only archived stuff temporarily, but had I known it was only for a week I wouldn't have dragged my rear end so much in putting together the edited version. But that's done now, so here you go. The entire show, organized into neat little parts and excised of (most of) the "preshow" and breaks after each episode: Part 1: Tech Demo & Knee-Deep in the Dead Part 2: Episode 1 Alphas Part 3: The Shores of Hell Part 4: Episode 2 Alphas Part 5: Inferno Part 6: Alpha Outtakes & Press Release Beta Part 7: Thy Flesh Consumed Edit: Also, E2M4 is the best map in Episode 2. gently caress the haters. CyRaptor fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 11:40
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CyRaptor posted:Edit: Also, E2M4 is the best map in Episode 2. gently caress the haters.
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Jan 4, 2014 14:04
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So what is it about Doom that keeps it being more enjoyable than the vast majority of modern shooters? I mean, I first played Doom twenty years ago, and it's the only game I still sink some time into nowadays. Sure there are Half Lives and Halos and such but they get boring eventually. Is it down to the feedback, the smooth gameplay, or something? I mean, it just feels right blasting them in the face with a shotgun, and nobody's really emulated it in the couple of decades ever since.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:37
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:So what is it about Doom that keeps it being more enjoyable than the vast majority of modern shooters? I mean, I first played Doom twenty years ago, and it's the only game I still sink some time into nowadays. Sure there are Half Lives and Halos and such but they get boring eventually. I think that is part of it, along with the dedicated community of modders that keep adding and expanding the game beyond all expectations. It's very approachable for beginners who want to cut their teeth on sprite and graphics editing or music or level design yet complex enough for experienced modders to keep at it. To their credit, id's supported modding from the start and the release of the source code expanded things even further. What's the most recent game source code release? Raven's Jedi Knight/Academy release/removal?
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Jan 4, 2014 17:36
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ytisomauq posted:I think that is part of it, along with the dedicated community of modders that keep adding and expanding the game beyond all expectations. It's very approachable for beginners who want to cut their teeth on sprite and graphics editing or music or level design yet complex enough for experienced modders to keep at it. I think it is actually really cool how with the Dooms, you can choose whether you want to play it like it was originally intended to be played (more or less with Chocolate DooM, since playing it in DOS is not a serious option for some machines), or you can add mods and stuff, and turn it into a somewhat modern looking FPS game. Also, it has a pretty big online community, to include multiplayer stuff on Zandronum. Strangely, the community for this game is bigger than it is for a lot of more modern FPS games. I also don't understand some modders. I mean, it's cool that some of them put in the effort to make hugely expansive mods, but in some cases, people like Sergeant_Mark_IV must have spent a ridiculous amount of time creating sprites and graphics for BD, only to have the vast majority of the folks in the Doom communities hate his guts. Which is interesting because nobody will ever know if you are running Brutal Doom with your singleplayer, offline DooM game (Downloads as of this morning for v19: 90,138 total, 632 today). Jakcson fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 20:06
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Jakcson posted:I also don't understand some modders. I mean, it's cool that some of them put in the effort to make hugely expansive mods, but in some cases, people like Sergeant_Mark_IV must have spent a ridiculous amount of time creating sprites and graphics for BD, only to have the vast majority of the folks in the Doom communities hate his guts. Which is interesting because nobody will ever know if you are running Brutal Doom with your singleplayer, offline DooM game. We get it, dude, you really really love Brutal Doom. You don't have to put it into every single post.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:09
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Jakcson posted:I also don't understand some modders. I mean, it's cool that some of them put in the effort to make hugely expansive mods, but in some cases, people like Sergeant_Mark_IV must have spent a ridiculous amount of time creating sprites and graphics for BD, only to have the vast majority of the folks in the Doom communities hate his guts. A small but incredibly vocal minority of Doom purists hate his guts. Brutal Doom is probably the most popular Doom mod ever released. Its been covered by just about every mainstream site, big-name Youtubers have done feature videos about it. Nothing else Doom-related has ever had that level of press, except for possibly the Aliens TC back in the day. There's already about twenty variants of it floating about now on the ZDoom forums, because everyone wants to do their own version of it.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:10
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That "Brutal RGA" .wad based on v19 and the last RGA release was pretty poo poo, to be honest. If Sgt_Mark getting banned stops all the crap drama and bad brutal wads, I'm all for it. So the Unreal 1 port to UT2004 is kinda bad. poo poo like mashed-up levels (one of the released builds had a shortcut to the Water Temple literally made by cutting a tunnel through from where a Brute ambushes you in some warehouse-looking thing) and weird elevators, as well as invisible level parts that flicker in and out of reality when you get close. Still, not bad if you have dreams of being a T-Rex in a mech suit shooting Nali. Here's a single-player mod for Quake 3. Unfortunately, the one level that comes out with it is pretty eh, and there's not a lot of levels out for it. JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 20:56
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CyRaptor posted:I knew Twitch only archived stuff temporarily, but had I known it was only for a week I wouldn't have dragged my rear end so much in putting together the edited version. But that's done now, so here you go. The entire show, organized into neat little parts and excised of (most of) the "preshow" and breaks after each episode: Cheers dude, the live stream was running too bad for me to watch, appreciating the youtubes.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:07
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JackMackerel posted:So the Unreal 1 port to UT2004 is kinda bad. poo poo like mashed-up levels (one of the released builds had a shortcut to the Water Temple literally made by cutting a tunnel through from where a Brute ambushes you in some warehouse-looking thing) and weird elevators, as well as invisible level parts that flicker in and out of reality when you get close. Still, not bad if you have dreams of being a T-Rex in a mech suit shooting Nali. How do you even screw that up? Most of the levels in Unreal 1 have identical geometry around the transition points, you shouldn't even need to change stuff beyond e.g. making a fake door into a real one.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:35
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:So what is it about Doom that keeps it being more enjoyable than the vast majority of modern shooters? I mean, I first played Doom twenty years ago, and it's the only game I still sink some time into nowadays. Sure there are Half Lives and Halos and such but they get boring eventually. I think it's just that I sunk a ridiculous amount of time into Doom when it came out, and these days I just don't have the time to play modern shooters as much as I played when I was 13. It's a lot easier to go back to something familiar and fun then gamble on something new. It's also why I still love playing the quakes, half life and counterstrike. Now if only there were source ports of Mechwarrior 2. :/
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Jan 4, 2014 21:41
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haveblue posted:How do you even screw that up? Most of the levels in Unreal 1 have identical geometry around the transition points, you shouldn't even need to change stuff beyond e.g. making a fake door into a real one. I don't know, honestly. The latest build removed the tunnel, but kept in the weird, completely unnecessary elevator between Depths of Rajigar and Sacred Passage. It also added kinda unnecessary cutscenes. I mean, I get removing most of the dead bodies (especially the one in the electric chair), but everything else?
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Jan 4, 2014 21:47
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:So what is it about Doom that keeps it being more enjoyable than the vast majority of modern shooters? I mean, I first played Doom twenty years ago, and it's the only game I still sink some time into nowadays. Sure there are Half Lives and Halos and such but they get boring eventually. It's because Doom (II) is an extraordinarily good rule-set for level designers to challenge the player in intelligent ways. This is why I get pissy when people try to reduce Doom to comic-book stupidity- it's because Doom is so much smarter than it gets credit for.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:53
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Fag Boy Jim posted:It's because Doom (II) is an extraordinarily good rule-set for level designers to challenge the player in intelligent ways. This is why I get pissy when people try to reduce Doom to comic-book stupidity- it's because Doom is so much smarter than it gets credit for. I dunno about that--Doom, especially vanilla without any wads, devolves to just a tedious find the keycard or hidden switch. Something like Myst was a lot more intelligent and challenging.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:03
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Doom actually does have an issue with almost every fight being too easy because of the lack of Doom II's midtier- specifically, the enemies which are able to hit a moving player. Good levels can get around this (E4M2), but it's rare. The real answer, though, is that "Doom" is referring to the set of rules that define Doom- the monster and weapon behavior, which good levels can be built around. Yes, the Doom II vanilla levels are not great- this is not, however, how most enthusiasts play it these days. Even the nefarious "Doom Purists" that seem to exist entirely in Dominic White's imagination.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:05
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I'm a bigger Duke fan than I am Dooms, but Doom does have a literal gameplay...'purity' to it that not even things like Duke match. I'm not talking about mods or the levels or any poo poo like that (as I've made several mods that horribly butcher Duke) but I mean all of the combined enemies and weapons synergise so well. It feels more well designed and tight. The thing is alot of people want to view Doom as an older Serious Sam even though the two have very little in common apart from SS lifting a couple of weapons and enemies from D2 (I don't mean that in a cynical way of course, it's more of a loving reference) You don't get it much in the base levels, but playing a truly well designed map pack (that isn't just a slaughter map) that still challenges players today is a pretty impressive feet. You can't really do that in something like Duke (From all my experience, most map authors either chuck hordes of enemies at you or bullshit explosions you can't possibly avoid)
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Jan 4, 2014 22:47
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Fag Boy Jim posted:It's because Doom (II) is an extraordinarily good rule-set for level designers to challenge the player in intelligent ways. This is why I get pissy when people try to reduce Doom to comic-book stupidity- it's because Doom is so much smarter than it gets credit for. Anybody getting "pissy" about seeing people modding Doom in a way they don't like is exactly the kind of "nefarious Doom purist" Dominic White is talking about.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:07
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Hellbound's architecture is amazing, but I have to agree that its fights are boring as poo poo.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:08
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Bouchacha posted:Hellbound's architecture is amazing, but I have to agree that its fights are boring as poo poo. Yeah that's kind of how I feel. I finally made it to like map 8 or something and I just don't have any interest in going on.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:43
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Fallom posted:Anybody getting "pissy" about seeing people modding Doom in a way they don't like is exactly the kind of "nefarious Doom purist" Dominic White is talking about. I feel like I have been posting this for the millionth time- I don't give a poo poo what you find fun. I give a poo poo about the misrepresentation of Doom as a dumb game where you shoot things. There have been thousands of dumb games where you shoot things. Doom happens to be a smart game where you shoot things. see: Fallom posted:Doom is a real stupid game and anyone enjoying it is enjoying something stupid. That's not a bad thing. also Hellbound is real bad, play like, Swim With The Whales instead or something.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:46
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Could always just turn on cheats to at least see the architecture and levels in Hellbound.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:48
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mod sassinator posted:Could always just turn on cheats to at least see the architecture and levels in Hellbound. This is basically what I did after the teens. It's a really pretty mapset, I have to admit, whoever made it is an absolute wizard at Doom Builder, or whatever they used. I wish someone would actually put interesting fights into it. It's like someone made an entire wad of Alien Vendetta Map 20-likes, or something.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:49
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Fag Boy Jim posted:It's because Doom (II) is an extraordinarily good rule-set for level designers to challenge the player in intelligent ways. This is why I get pissy when people try to reduce Doom to comic-book stupidity- it's because Doom is so much smarter than it gets credit for. I feel the same about Serious Sam. The stereotype seems to be that it's a mindless shooter, but there's a lot of tactical decisions you have to make when fighting anything stronger than the beheaded enemies in the first level. In anything harder than Easy, you have to know what the gently caress you're doing in order to survive. S/D + M1 with the minigun without any sort of plan during a large fight will gently caress you over because you'll burn through your Minigun ammo and get killed because you did something dumb like waste 200 Minigun rounds on Gnaars instead of the Arachnoids sniping you or the Red Biomechs that spawned in after killing the three harmless beheaded red shirt guys that weren't harming you at all. Things like ammo conservation are pretty drat important, especially in the harder difficulties. Each enemy is really vulnerable to specific weapons, like the double barrel shotgun tearing Kleers up, the Sniper making quick work of Arachnoids and Harpies, and rapid-fire weapons making Reptiloids harmless.
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